Reached 50... and PVP is completely dead. Been queued up for two hours and nothing. This is the first day in three weeks of daily play that I actually didn't go into a warzone. A big difference from it popping up every 10 minutes or so from 30-49. Damn. There are clearly hundreds of people on the server... but I didn't see more than 23 50's appear on the whole Imperial side tonight. Maybe I'll level that alt. :/
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Official [H] Star Wars:The Old Republic Thread
- Thread starter Savoy
- Start date
I feel you
edit: what server? if you're on mine i'll team up with you!
we can queue for hours on end together
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^^ I'm Cizin on Gauntlet of Kreesh... though I doubt you're there thanks for the offer.
Really a shame they didn't make the bracket like 41-50 or something, even a few more people queued up would've been enough to keep the pvp ball rolling in the warzones. Maybe tonight was just a down night, I'll see how it goes tomorrow.
Really a shame they didn't make the bracket like 41-50 or something, even a few more people queued up would've been enough to keep the pvp ball rolling in the warzones. Maybe tonight was just a down night, I'll see how it goes tomorrow.
I agree, and anyone who's been in any form of CS knows it's no walk in the park. It's more just the tone and the attitude as well as the intent. The problem is when the vocal majority on the forums are not the majority in the game. This happened to the only other MMO I've ever played, Hellgate London. Hellgate was a fantastic game that had a ton of potential. It was actually picking up speed after (from what I hear) a pretty bad launch, but then the devs started listening and catering to the small group of level 50 elites who kept finding ways to break the game, that when nerfed retroactively screwed normal players, and it just went down hill. Pretty soon every class got nerfed to hell because "eventually, if you had this this and these rare-as-hell items and weapons, you could one shot the endgame boss." Just a complete lost of perspective and in the end, even dedicated players like me who had really sweet stuff, still ended up leaving. I'd hate to see that happen in some form again.
Overall, I'm really enjoying just the story in this game, co-oping a lot of it with a buddy. What are people actually looking to do in end-game? I'd like to see crafting get a boost and get interesting with customizations and what not, but it seems to grind flashpoints to horde cash or items seems pointless? I've never played WoW, what do people do there, raids? Is there a point if you already have godlike gear? Or is there always better gear?
RealityCrunch
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Dailies (quests to do a particular task, usually to earn gold or help level a profession), Battlegrounds, Rated Battlegrounds, Heroic Dungeons, Raids, Crafting / Gathering / Professions, Arena. However, the most time is probably spent hanging out in Stormwind/Orgrimmar waiting for your queue to pop. It's mostly anti-social these days. Dailies (solo), Battlegrounds (queue), Heroic Dungeons (queue), Raids (now with the LFR queue) and Crafting / Gathering / Professions either require very little social interaction or none at all.
People seem content to stay on the ever repeating treadmill to get their next gear upgrade. Patches are released every so often to introduce new content and increase the highest level gear available, to keep people trucking along
fattypants
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The raids are what drove me from WoW about 4 or 5 years ago. At some point I realized that I was on a bunch of strangers' schedules and chasing a carrot on a stick for eternity. You have godlike gear for two weeks, then a new dungeon opens up.
I can now enjoy an MMO here and there, but I refuse to raid. It murders anything good in the game, for me at least. Some people live for it, but I live for myself and my loved ones.
After a while, you feel like Neo in The Matrix when you see it for what it is. You realize that all you're doing is making numbers move around in a spreadsheet and paying $180 a year for the privilege of doing so.
At least in a single player game, the things you do actually matter. In an MMO, someone will come along and do the same epic thing as you two minutes later, and the world go on not remembering anything anyone ever did, resetting like it never happened.
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xSystemFailurex
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Dailies (quests to do a particular task, usually to earn gold or help level a profession), Battlegrounds, Rated Battlegrounds, Heroic Dungeons, Raids, Crafting / Gathering / Professions, Arena. However, the most time is probably spent hanging out in Stormwind/Orgrimmar waiting for your queue to pop. It's mostly anti-social these days. Dailies (solo), Battlegrounds (queue), Heroic Dungeons (queue), Raids (now with the LFR queue) and Crafting / Gathering / Professions either require very little social interaction or none at all.
People seem content to stay on the ever repeating treadmill to get their next gear upgrade. Patches are released every so often to introduce new content and increase the highest level gear available, to keep people trucking along
Couldn't continue WoW for that reason. I'm a PvPer primarily. Blizzard made a game where better gear was the only reason to keep playing, but put all said gear out of my reach as someone who likes to solo PvP, so they lost my money. SWTOR not anywhere near the same problems so far, and if I hit 50 i'm 100% sure to put all my effort into an alt (unlike WoW which was so much work to max out an alt.)
Splinter24
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Damn man, sorry. Like i said early, since they've segragated the 50's from the rest of the PvP pop, I've had to wait a bit longer in warzone queues. But with that, comes a lot better compitition. Atleast this game offers an extremely easy leveling system, so you'll be back to 50 in no time. I've always wanted to roll a republic character, maybe I will sometime...
Last night something hilarious happened to me. I needed two more wins for the daily, so logged in the queue. The following happened:
1- Got dropped into Alderaan warzone that didnt have enough people to continue. Luckily, we had captured 2 turrets before the time ran out and picked up the win
2- Got dropped into a huttball match immediantly after that. Score was 4-0 and was dropped on the winning team.
So I picked up my daily AND weekly with both of those wins. Completed my Champion set with those two wins, it was hilarious.
FranklyShankly
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Not to get off topic, but in reality, how do the things you do in a single player game "matter" in any way, shape, or form? You are doing the same things within the game that millions of others are doing in their copy of the game, you are enjoying your chosen form of entertainment.
I agree that trying to fit your life to raid schedules is a serious drag, but I don't think that somehow single player games are inherently more "important" than MMO's, you're still playing a game on a screen, that has no impact on the outside world at all.
Mungojerrie
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I was PvPing for a while last night but my god it got frustrating. I'm holding objectives with a healer and using guard/taunt to keep them alive and they decide to ignore healing me during like a 2 minute fight. Maybe I was just spoiled by the previous match where a commando and I held a turret vs 5 people.
I hit 50 on Voss leaving a full planet of quests to get some credits.
Warzones where popping frequently on my server for the 50's bracket. I just didn't like being targeted because I was the only one not in full pvp gear.
I'm just a hair away from level 49 on Belsavis. I did my class quest on Voss but nothing else. I'm not flagged for PvP but I'd like to try it. Guess I better do so before I get stuck in the level 50 bracket against people who know what they are doing.
Splinter24
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I started PvP at 50. Granted this was before the bracketing, but it was still major fun. I miss that rush I got from my first HuttBall match
Yeah I would recommend playing a good levels worth of PVP so you have the hang of it by the time you get 50. I'm going to do the same, to make sure I know how to counter each class I'm up against well enough that I don't get face stomped in the 50 bracket. I'm a pretty serious PVP player but I just haven't gotten into TOR's yet because I have a strict policy on not getting into much PVP until I hit the cap, due to class imbalances that come up through the leveling process. 50 is the only time it can assumed that it is "stabilized" once you have all your skills and trees maxed out.
I don't think he means "important." It sounds like he wants a discernable end point, which is a big problem for MMO churn. When you beat, for example, Super Mario Brothers, you know it's over. There comes a point in an MMO when lots of people realize the fun is gone. I had a blast playing vanilla WoW from 1-59, then 60 started out fun and eventually I quit. Same thing with all the expansions. Psychologically, people want to hit the loot pinata, but only so many times--when they max out that gear and find out they are no longer maxed out a month later, some people will want to quit. That's why there are so many grinds in MMOs, to keep people on that treadmill and lengthen the amount of time it takes to hit that feeling. That's just the current state of MMO endgame play in the genre, and everyone has pretty much stuck with the EQ model of giant raids as the end game.
TOR cannot possibly have hit that point yet. The problems with TOR have very little to do with the amount of content. TOR just has a ton of bugs to squash, some poor design choices, some faction imbalances, combat balance problems, etc. There are some people who have a "what do you do now" problem, but that is by far the minority. Most people are complaining about the gameplay and the engine, not the content.
I'm not resubbing, and it has nothing to do with the content. The combat mechanics are simply not enjoyable for me in the way they were in WoW, and many of the reasons why will likely never change. I don't get the same sense of adventure and exploration in TOR that I did in other games.
I'd suggest at least trying to complete the PvP daily every single day as you're leveling. With the stat buff everyone get's, the imbalance of being a lower level/not having all your abilities yet isn't quite so bad. You'll get good EXP, some money, valor, and be able to bank commendations that you can use for max level gear once you're finally 50.
I'm leveling my second character and at lvl 24 I already have valor rank 13 and almost 800 mercenary commendations (second tier tokens that you get by turning in warzone commendations at a 3-1 ratio). Between the daily space missions and queueing for warzones while out completing my class quests, that's pretty much all I need to do to level really effectively. With this method, I'll have good gear waiting for me at 50, and I won't have to do any repeat side-quests unless I feel like it... just focus on completing class story-line quests and that's it.
May have somewhat found the sweet spot on Treasure Hunting / Underworld Trading on my server. For Treasure Hunting, the grade 6 crystals sell well (surprise!), but for UWT, for some reason the blue grade 3-4 underworld metals sell for ridiculous amounts (900+ credits per, can get up to 10 + 5 purples from a 700c, 15 minute mission). Hopefully it stays that way for a bit, as my UWTer is still gathering that range.
Someone made this chart on the TOR forum, and it explains exactly what my problem is. If they could fix this, the game would be a ton more enjoyable for me. There is a massive thread on it: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=159300 Bioware posts claim it is under investigation, but there is no reason it should have left beta with that system.
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I'm not planning to un-sub any time soon, but I definitely have had the same feeling you describe. I've been trying to figure out "why" in the back of my mind for a while now too, and I think I've come up with at least a partial answer: There just seems to be a overall feeling of disconnectedness.
The "planets" are probably the best example. There aren't any truly large continents like Azeroth or Kalimdor that have a bunch of interconnected zones that you can travel across and discover different interesting areas along the way. Hell, some of the "planets" are so broken up that you can't even get from one questing area to the next without the use of a non-ineractive taxi. Nar Shadaa and Voss come to mind immediately. It all serves to foster a feeling that these aren't truly "living/breathing" planets, but just a bunch of different questing zones that are mostly disconnected from each other.
This feeling is compounded by the lack of truly interactive/meaningful space travel and combat. It's cool that you get a ship, but you never really feel like you're actively in control of it. You're just clicking waypoints on a galaxy map, or playing a better looking Star Wars version of Star Fox. I'm not saying that there isn't some fun to be had here, but it's not deep, and it's not conducive to fostering a feeling of adventure and continuity to the game world as a whole.
I completely get that it would be a hell of a stretch to have the ability to actually fly my ship manually down to the surface of a planet, pick my own landing zone, and hop out wherever I chose and start running around the surface of a fully realized planet. At the same time however, without at least some measure of that, I am not really able to suspend my disbelief long enough to really get a true feeling of exploration or adventure.
Oh, and running through the same time sink of ship hangar, then orbital station, and then space port, on every single damn planet doesn't help things either...
Oh, they have. There were max-length threads about it, and there is a current thread thread about it. They have officially responded saying the issue is "complicated" and they are "investigating."
This is something that should have been worked out in the alpha.
Yeah, but when you really think about the way it was developed, and how it mimicks KOTOR in a lot of ways, you can understand why they did what they did. Would you rather the entire game take place on a full continent of Tattooine? Definitely not, lol. It's SW and there are tons of planets to explore, with different landscapes, architectures, and plantary lifeforms. Yes, because of this exploration is lacking vs a game like Vanguard or EQ where you had massive spanning continents that took hours to roam. That gives TOR a little less depth in terms of immersiveness, but I think that is ok, at least for now. Perhaps they will continue expanding upon current planets in the future and create more zones, OR create larger zones that cover a bigger level range. I think they wanted to have plenty of different planets in at launch as a starting point, as well as to put you in the SW UNIVERSE, the key word there being universe. Most other games like this are made from scratch, they can mold the (usually 1) planet as they see fit and make it huge. This holds well with fantasy games, but in a futuristic game where you can jump into hyperspace and travel massive distances in a blink of an eye, it makes LESS sense to me that I'd be running around on foot over massive landscapes. Thats just how I feel though.
Agreed. It is the most important function in the game when it comes to combat (which is what you are engaged in like 70% of the time you are actually playing) -- it is something that should have been addressed and taken care of long before 1 month of the game being released to the public. It's not going to cancel my sub because I have faith that they will work on, and fix it. With as large of a playerbase basically campaigning for them to do so, you can imagine that they would not overlook it. I'll continue playing until then, because it's not creating any PvE issues for me. Nothing is "too hard" because of this issue. I can understand how it would be absolutely annoying beyond belief in PvP, though.
I'm really on the fence if I'll continue playing. I've enjoyed the class story, but I'm almost done with that and the rest is kinda... Meh. Instances aren't bad, but I'm not thrilled. PvP is extremely broke. I'm not sure there's lot more for me once I've completed the main story chain (other than doing it again for a different class, which is something I'm not that big on).
Those Champion bags piss me off. To date, I have gotten four pieces from them. My friend who's the same Valor rank as me has gotten 15 pieces (though many duplicates). I have more Centurion pieces than I do Champion. I am an unlucky son of a bitch.
Splinter24
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That really is weird man. Out of the 3 champion bags I get normally in a day, I'll get one piece from those.
+1
53 bags and 3 pairs of pants for me.. have a bunch of cent crap though
you're lucky
the randomized aspect is totally balls and needs to be changed
Splinter24
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I don't care wtf it's called. You should see some level of character progression after banging out a bunch of PvP day after day. I almost always just get centurion tokens and the only times I've had item drops it was the same set piece. It's beyond frustrating when the "rewards" system is just as broken as the PvP you have to endure to get it in the first place.
mrgstiffler
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You're talking about end-game "progression". If it were easy, it wouldn't be end-game.
so, this is intended.. i wonder what kind of idiot thought that was cool... I got killed couple of times last night because I was hitting something that I thought was available but was still in cool down mode... fucking absurd.
I fully realize they had many reasons to create the world in the fashion they did... However, that's not the point... I'm simply pointing out that you really lose a larger sense of exploration and adventure due to some of those decisions.
In terms of travel... it makes LESS sense to ME that my slower... errr, I mean speeder, even at lvl 50 is only 110% movement speed increase and still tethers me to the ground. In WoW I could FLY and move 310% faster across a far more expansive and varied ladscape. Talk about technological inconsistency...
What a silly argument. I could care less if it is "hard" or "easy." You pick however you'd like to define either because it doesn't matter. Either way, what really matters is that the end-game is enjoyable. Just give me something fun to do (it's going to be repeated many times over, so yeah, it better be DAMN fun actually) and let me get some new trinkets to throw on my character after putting my time in. I don't think that's too much to ask.
Currently not only is the PvP so broken that it is not enjoyable most of the time, but the "rewards system" is also designed in a way to foster even more frustration. Getting rolled by pre-mades every warzone isn't fun. Finally getting a win and completing a daily you have been working on for THREE days SHOULD be a bright spot, but when that win doesn't count towards said daily, that warm and fuzzy "winning" feeling vanishes pretty damn fast as you can probably imagine. Try repeating that scenario a few more times before finally getting a win to count... then go turn in that quest for your "reward" only to get a duplicate of the one and only tier 2 piece of gear you already have.... oh, and that, only after having 9 of the last ten bags you received just give three tokens for tier 1 gear that requires 40-80ish tokens to get anything decent...
Like I said, define that as "easy" or "hard," I don't give a shit, but it certainly doesn't fit with any definition of "fun" that I've ever come across.
mrgstiffler
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I guess that's really the issue for you. The PvP by itself is supposed to be fun. The rewards are just gravy for something you want to do already. If you're not having fun doing the PvP then that's your actual issue, not the rewards.
um
no?
being rare is fine -- don't make it being random.
random /= rare
you'll have people who get a champ item every bag, and people who never get champ items
it needs to be equal for all.
I think a system of just giving out cent/champ/battlemaster commendations would have been far easier .. no duplicates, no random bullshit.. just make it tough as fuck and long as hell to farm the required commendations amount to get a full suit. easy.
..I'm pretty sure a large majority of the people playing would agree the pvp system is fucked.
this isn't a personal issue.. the pvp in this game IS fucked.
Damar
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I'd say you're right, but the problem is, games use RNG to do it because it's easier to code for them and makes the entire process about one number check to see what item is or isn't handed out, and so far BW has proven that they are using the easy way out for plenty of things rather than invest time to do something more complex and satisfying.
This game never should have left beta in the state it did, and now they are even trying to tout "new features" like guild banks as great additions post-launch when it's something the game never should have launched without. Auction House? Obviously slapped together last minute and horrible interface. Customizable UI? Should have been in at launch but now touted as a "Great new feature" coming soon.
http://www.swtor.com/media/trailers/coming-star-wars-old-republic
I do like the game and play it a lot, but the way they are approaching things does not inspire confidence in me when I think about how long I'll want to pay for what I'm getting right now.
Yes, that's the main issue... its's supposed to be, but it isn't (especially at 50) for many reasons that have been covered ad nauseum over in the official SWTOR PvP thread if you aren't already familiar with them all. The reward system simply exacerbates these issues and takes the frustration to a whole new level.
mrgstiffler
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Yeah, and I don't really see much of that. I'm only 39 and not 50, but I've actually had a blast with PvP. Especially last night since I'm not playing with the 50s any more.
Man I've been saying this for weeks in this thread and have been getting all sorts of shit.
I agree 100%.
Ooooh, didn't realize you were not 50..
I would imagine the new 1-49 bracket is a metric assload of fun
especially since the progression is the same for all (mostly, those who bought up cheap gear while it was cheap obviously are ahead now).. but at 50 progression becomes random and it's beyond stupid/not fun.
A suit of champion gear should mean you put forth a hell of an effort to earn it -- it shouldn't mean you got lucky.