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I thought I'd contribute to the thread again with my research since there may be others in my position. A few pages back I asked whether or not anyone knew if 1080p HDCP encoded video was possible on the 2407FPW and I got hope, but a vague answer. Now I believe to have all of the important bits pieced together.
There have been many problems with the transition from the 2405FPW to the 2407FPW as we all know. I'm going to focus on the monitor's ability to display HDCP encoded video.
The monitor is indeed HDCP compatible. We've had several reports saying this is absolutely true, however, they are not able to get a 1080i/p (via DVI) signal (encoded with HDCP) displayed on the monitor, only 720p. Many are aware that the 2405FPW was able to accept a 1080i signal through the DVI port and display it. The first piece of the puzzle is that the 2405FPW had a de-interlacer in the pathway before being displayed, which allowed it to recieve a 1080i signal through the DVI port. This 1080i signal in turn would be de-interlaced to a progressive signal and then displayed, essentially giving you 1080p. For non-HDCP encoded HDTV Cable signal (via HDMI->DVI cable) or any source at 1080i with no protection this was suitable.
Fast foward to now the 2407FPW you are no longer able to do this. Even though the 2407FPW is HDCP compliant, it will not allow a 1080i signal through its DVI port. This is due to the 2407FPW's lack of a de-interlacer. The Genesis controller FLI5962H will only process progressive signals because of this limitation. Most HDTVs have de-interlacers in them, so HDMI ports are commonly fed 1080i signals. The better HDTVs can de-interlace the signal to 1080p. Unfortunately, the 2407FPW can not do this.
So if 1080i is no go, there shouldn't be a problem with 1080p because its progressive and the FLI5962H can work with progressive signals, right? Well, it should, but there's more to it.
The monitor itself will accept a 1080p signal via DVI as shown above. However, this is not HDCP encoded, so how does the 2407FPW fair there?
The best source of 1080p so far is the Samsung BD-P1000 Blu-Ray player. It's the only native 1080p HD source available. The Toshiba HD-DVD players all output 1080i (supposedly they will upgrade to 1080p in the near future but thats a totally separate subject). Just like I explained above, the 2407FPW will not accept an interlaced signal via DVI like the 2405FPW could (that was not HDCP protected) so you're outta luck with current HD-DVD players. 1080p content on both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are mastered at 1080p/24 on the disc. Very few displays will accept a 24hz signal (Dell 2407FPW not being one of them). Although the master is at 24fps, BD players are required to be able to output at 60fps, which is a progressive 1080p format supported by the 2407FPW as seen above.
On a side note, the Samsung BD player was not able to get the progressive to progressive conversion working before it launched. What it does is take the 1080p/24 master on the disc, downscale it to 1080i/30, and then de-interlace that to 1080p/60. Although the player has to go through this ordeal, the end result is a progressive signal at 60hz. The 2407FPW should be able to handle this like shown above.
However, look at the results after plugging in a Samsung BD-P1000 player into the 2407FPW:
.
Using an HDMI to DVI cable, the 2407FPW accepts the HDCP signal and displays 720p video with no problem. However, as you can see in the last picture, the player does not see the 2407FPW as compatible with 1080p so it's not selectable.
The tricky part comes here. The Samsung player defaults to displaying at 720p, so its perfectly fine for it to do so with the 2407FPW. 1080i is selectable, but we already know that it is not possible to view the interlaced signal via DVI.
So if the Genesis controller is only able to process progressive signals, why is it that the 2407FPW can't take the 1080p HDCP signal from the Samsung player? Well, the problem is the in the player itself, not the display. The Samsung player comes equipped with a EDID sensor that scans the monitor/TV/display it's connected to so it knows exactly what are its limitations before allowing a signal through. This is separate information from HDCP and its purpose is to protect a display from recieving a signal it can not process and not damage the display. The EDID data for the 2407FPW shows 1080i as the maximum resolution which is untrue. The Samsung BD player will not allow you to force a signal into a display that is not llisted on its EDID.
What's funny about this is the player has a safety mechanism so that if you feed a display a signal it can't take, i.e., it goes black, you can return back to where you were by ejecting the disc and holding the fast foward button. Had Samsung relied only on that and not the EDID data, we should of been able to get full 1080p from the first-gen Samsung BD player. It is possible that Samsung will rectify this in future versions of their player because with digital connections EDID data is not that important.
This behavior can also be seen on the Westinghouse LVM-42w2 monitor, another 1080p capable monitor with HDCP support. Here's a paragraph detailing this from a review:
In other words, if you're expecting 1080p you need a player that will output to 1080p without being reliant on EDID data. Right now there are none, but there's a shimmer of hope in the near future and beyond. The next big BD player is obviously the PlayStation 3. Here's a screenshot of the XMB settings menu:
Thankfully, it seems the PS3 does not rely on EDID data as strictly as the Samsung BD-P1000 does, and will allow you to manually select your display settings. Assuming they do allow this, you should be able to feed 1080p to the 2407FPW without any problems. (This includes movies and games of course).
Also, before anyone mentions it, I'm aware the 2407FPW accepts 1080i via component. Component video does get de-interlaced, then converted to a digital signal via ADC, and then displayed. Unfortunately, the quality of the process is not so good (based on most of your impressions). It's also not something anyone wants to deal with if the ICT flag were to be turned on in the near future. It's a mediocre implementation at best, but fortunately DVI (when Faroudja is turned off) looks great.
So basically:
Can I watch 1080i HDTV or Movies via DVI? No
Can I watch 720p HDTV or Movies via DVI? Yes
Can I watch 1080p Movies via DVI? Yes*
*Only if you can get passed the EDID limitations
The 24" BenQ has been the talk among those hoping to score both a capable monitor and a useable HD display workable up to 1080p. The BenQ will most likely feature a de-interlacer thats workable through the HDMI port and should handle 1080i HDTV signals. The quality of that de-interlacer is yet to be seen, but being optimistic it should work out well. If HDTV is more important to you than HD movies then the BenQ seems to be your best option. Hopefully it also does not have any EDID problems and allow a much smoother experience dealing with HD players.
However, if you are currently planning to get a cheap 1080p display (like me) for your PlayStation 3, the 2407FPW is still a viable choice. I don't plan to watch HDTV so I could care less about that. Others do want to watch TV so their satisfaction will undoubtly be lesser. If you're only interested in 1080p movies from a legit HD player for HD then the 2407FPW should suffice. It should also allow 1080p HDCP encoded movies via Vista if there's anyone interested in that. The FLI5962H controller does not limit HDCP content at all like some people predicted. It's just a collection of keys to handshake with approved players and its the first step in the chain before an image is displayed. No processing is done after that in regards to HDCP.
Hope this helps out someone.
There have been many problems with the transition from the 2405FPW to the 2407FPW as we all know. I'm going to focus on the monitor's ability to display HDCP encoded video.
The monitor is indeed HDCP compatible. We've had several reports saying this is absolutely true, however, they are not able to get a 1080i/p (via DVI) signal (encoded with HDCP) displayed on the monitor, only 720p. Many are aware that the 2405FPW was able to accept a 1080i signal through the DVI port and display it. The first piece of the puzzle is that the 2405FPW had a de-interlacer in the pathway before being displayed, which allowed it to recieve a 1080i signal through the DVI port. This 1080i signal in turn would be de-interlaced to a progressive signal and then displayed, essentially giving you 1080p. For non-HDCP encoded HDTV Cable signal (via HDMI->DVI cable) or any source at 1080i with no protection this was suitable.
Fast foward to now the 2407FPW you are no longer able to do this. Even though the 2407FPW is HDCP compliant, it will not allow a 1080i signal through its DVI port. This is due to the 2407FPW's lack of a de-interlacer. The Genesis controller FLI5962H will only process progressive signals because of this limitation. Most HDTVs have de-interlacers in them, so HDMI ports are commonly fed 1080i signals. The better HDTVs can de-interlace the signal to 1080p. Unfortunately, the 2407FPW can not do this.
So if 1080i is no go, there shouldn't be a problem with 1080p because its progressive and the FLI5962H can work with progressive signals, right? Well, it should, but there's more to it.
The monitor itself will accept a 1080p signal via DVI as shown above. However, this is not HDCP encoded, so how does the 2407FPW fair there?
The best source of 1080p so far is the Samsung BD-P1000 Blu-Ray player. It's the only native 1080p HD source available. The Toshiba HD-DVD players all output 1080i (supposedly they will upgrade to 1080p in the near future but thats a totally separate subject). Just like I explained above, the 2407FPW will not accept an interlaced signal via DVI like the 2405FPW could (that was not HDCP protected) so you're outta luck with current HD-DVD players. 1080p content on both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are mastered at 1080p/24 on the disc. Very few displays will accept a 24hz signal (Dell 2407FPW not being one of them). Although the master is at 24fps, BD players are required to be able to output at 60fps, which is a progressive 1080p format supported by the 2407FPW as seen above.
On a side note, the Samsung BD player was not able to get the progressive to progressive conversion working before it launched. What it does is take the 1080p/24 master on the disc, downscale it to 1080i/30, and then de-interlace that to 1080p/60. Although the player has to go through this ordeal, the end result is a progressive signal at 60hz. The 2407FPW should be able to handle this like shown above.
However, look at the results after plugging in a Samsung BD-P1000 player into the 2407FPW:
.
Using an HDMI to DVI cable, the 2407FPW accepts the HDCP signal and displays 720p video with no problem. However, as you can see in the last picture, the player does not see the 2407FPW as compatible with 1080p so it's not selectable.
The tricky part comes here. The Samsung player defaults to displaying at 720p, so its perfectly fine for it to do so with the 2407FPW. 1080i is selectable, but we already know that it is not possible to view the interlaced signal via DVI.
So if the Genesis controller is only able to process progressive signals, why is it that the 2407FPW can't take the 1080p HDCP signal from the Samsung player? Well, the problem is the in the player itself, not the display. The Samsung player comes equipped with a EDID sensor that scans the monitor/TV/display it's connected to so it knows exactly what are its limitations before allowing a signal through. This is separate information from HDCP and its purpose is to protect a display from recieving a signal it can not process and not damage the display. The EDID data for the 2407FPW shows 1080i as the maximum resolution which is untrue. The Samsung BD player will not allow you to force a signal into a display that is not llisted on its EDID.
What's funny about this is the player has a safety mechanism so that if you feed a display a signal it can't take, i.e., it goes black, you can return back to where you were by ejecting the disc and holding the fast foward button. Had Samsung relied only on that and not the EDID data, we should of been able to get full 1080p from the first-gen Samsung BD player. It is possible that Samsung will rectify this in future versions of their player because with digital connections EDID data is not that important.
This behavior can also be seen on the Westinghouse LVM-42w2 monitor, another 1080p capable monitor with HDCP support. Here's a paragraph detailing this from a review:
In other words, if you're expecting 1080p you need a player that will output to 1080p without being reliant on EDID data. Right now there are none, but there's a shimmer of hope in the near future and beyond. The next big BD player is obviously the PlayStation 3. Here's a screenshot of the XMB settings menu:
Thankfully, it seems the PS3 does not rely on EDID data as strictly as the Samsung BD-P1000 does, and will allow you to manually select your display settings. Assuming they do allow this, you should be able to feed 1080p to the 2407FPW without any problems. (This includes movies and games of course).
Also, before anyone mentions it, I'm aware the 2407FPW accepts 1080i via component. Component video does get de-interlaced, then converted to a digital signal via ADC, and then displayed. Unfortunately, the quality of the process is not so good (based on most of your impressions). It's also not something anyone wants to deal with if the ICT flag were to be turned on in the near future. It's a mediocre implementation at best, but fortunately DVI (when Faroudja is turned off) looks great.
So basically:
Can I watch 1080i HDTV or Movies via DVI? No
Can I watch 720p HDTV or Movies via DVI? Yes
Can I watch 1080p Movies via DVI? Yes*
*Only if you can get passed the EDID limitations
The 24" BenQ has been the talk among those hoping to score both a capable monitor and a useable HD display workable up to 1080p. The BenQ will most likely feature a de-interlacer thats workable through the HDMI port and should handle 1080i HDTV signals. The quality of that de-interlacer is yet to be seen, but being optimistic it should work out well. If HDTV is more important to you than HD movies then the BenQ seems to be your best option. Hopefully it also does not have any EDID problems and allow a much smoother experience dealing with HD players.
However, if you are currently planning to get a cheap 1080p display (like me) for your PlayStation 3, the 2407FPW is still a viable choice. I don't plan to watch HDTV so I could care less about that. Others do want to watch TV so their satisfaction will undoubtly be lesser. If you're only interested in 1080p movies from a legit HD player for HD then the 2407FPW should suffice. It should also allow 1080p HDCP encoded movies via Vista if there's anyone interested in that. The FLI5962H controller does not limit HDCP content at all like some people predicted. It's just a collection of keys to handshake with approved players and its the first step in the chain before an image is displayed. No processing is done after that in regards to HDCP.
Hope this helps out someone.
