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OC'ing - cost/benefit ratio

M

mteksoldier

n00b
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
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I'm looking to build a new PC in the near future and for the first time I'm thinking about entering the wonderful world of overclocking. I've always kind of wanted to do it, and I think it could be a fun little project for my next build. However, I've got to decide if the added costs of OC'ing, as well as noise and heat gain, is worth the gain in performance. Now of course that is a question only I can answer, however I'm hoping I can get the information I need to make that decision from your collective experience.

I basically have two builds in my head. One built around and OC'ed Q6600, and one pure bang for the buck build built around the E6750. My interests are purely in gaming. Ok, here goes.

Performance
I've read articles on Anandtech, X-Bit Labs, etc. and have seen the benchmarks, and while helpful, doesn't give the full picture. Considering the added costs - top quality motherboard, 3rd party CPU cooler, etc., what do you think of the performance gain in gaming?

Noise
I plan on buying a quality case regardless (looking at Lian-Li, Silvertone, Antec) so that should help dampening noise, but is it possible to get a decent overclock on a Q6600 without cranking up the fans to 11? I'm not looking for a silent PC, but I don't want it to sound like a jet either.

Heat
Now a quad is going to crank out some heat, and OC'ing will only add to this, but does this mean that my room is going to turn into a sauna?

I appreciate any answers or links to resources that you can provide. Thank you.
 
Gaming Performance:
Currently, the performance differential between dual and quad is minimal, but with some of the upcoming games, this will change as multicore support increase. I'm not too knowledgable on this, so maybe someone else can elaborate on this one.

Noise:
It's doable to OC the quad without cranking the fans up to 11 and it's easily done by just replacing the fans. Case fans-wise I'd say get Yate Loons. Pretty cheap (~3.50 jab-tech); and definitely will be able to handle the quad without sounding like a jet.

Heat:
This really just depends on how ambient air moves around your room. I sit next to my quad and it's warmer but definitely not sauna level.
 
djihcoro said:
Gaming Performance:
Currently, the performance differential between dual and quad is minimal, but with some of the upcoming games, this will change as multicore support increase. I'm not too knowledgable on this, so maybe someone else can elaborate on this one.

Noise:
It's doable to OC the quad without cranking the fans up to 11 and it's easily done by just replacing the fans. Case fans-wise I'd say get Yate Loons. Pretty cheap (~3.50 jab-tech); and definitely will be able to handle the quad without sounding like a jet.

Heat:
This really just depends on how ambient air moves around your room. I sit next to my quad and it's warmer but definitely not sauna level.
Click to expand...

I agree with you on the Fans, I have 6 Yate Loons in my build, Stacker 830 Evo, abit ip35 pro, Q6600, 8800 ultra. And this new build is quieter then my last. With 8 fans total its not really that loud at all, i think this build is quieter then my last that had 8 fans also. I have not OCed mine yet, but i am still working on updates and waiting for my 2nd HDD to come back from RMA so i can setup my RAID and OC it
 
Performance
This entirely depends on what you want to buy. For instance, an Abit IP35-E (~$90) is supposed to overclock about as well as a IP35 PRO ($170). If you really want to, you can even get by with the retail cooling, though you won't really be finding the max for your chip. For instance, with my setup (IP35 Pro + Q6600 B3) and stock cooling, I was stuck at about 3Ghz with comfortable temps and volts. After a the bolt-down mod and high-airflow watercooling (bout $200 worth of extra cooling), I'm stable at 3.42Ghz. That means a 25% OC was basically free, but an addtional 17% OC costed $200. I don't really notice a difference between 3 and 3.4 in games unless I'm specifically looking for it. Illogical? Kinda, but this is a hobby too. People spend money on all sorts of hobbies.


Noise
Noise is pretty much up to how you design your rig. If you go watercooling with an external rad, you can get by with far less case airflow (and noise) than a high end HSF. High-end aircooling is going to end up costing less than half of what water would and with none of the standard watercooling risks. Do you want to spend more and hear less or spend less and hear more? To bastardize a quote about cars: "Cheap, fast, quiet. Pick two."

Heat
Quaddies in particular produce a fuckton of heat, 175-200w or so isn't uncommon. If the room is already marginal with poor airflow, a quaddie and highend video card are going to make it uncomfortably warm.
 
A Quad core at 3.0ghz outputs around 171 thermal watts(0.025 * 1.4^2 * 3000 = ~171Wth IIRC).

An 8800GTX at stock clocks puts out around 150w of heat.

You've got at least 300w of heat in those 2 components alone, probably an extra 100w with board components, hard drives, lights etcetera.

Now, That's about half the rating of a small space heater (~800-1100w) which is quite a lot of heat if you think about it.

Good room airflow is a must for these quaddies.
 
I have a E6600 from 2.4-3.6 I do notice it alot. But as others say it does cost and is my hobby :). Heat is always a issue but if you got some fans or even Watercooling you are set.
 
Wow, so many great responses already. You guys rock! Definitely helping me out a ton. Thank you.

So it looks like noise will be a non-issue for me assuming I pick up a quality case and fans.

Cost/performance seems a lot better especially with the recommendation of the Abit IP-35-E. I'll have to do a little more research on that board and it's competitors, but it's looking like that performance gain + the fun of an OC'ing project will be worth the cost.

Heat may not be much of a problem. I live in a studio apartment, and the ceiling fan helps with circulation.

Hmmmm...
 
The IP35-E's competitors are the Gigabyte P35-DS3L and the ASUS P5K SE are the competitors to the IP35-E. I don't think there were any problems with any of the boards, except for maybe the abit.

If you want true bang for the buck (or just for the hell of it), go with a low-cost (HTPC?) machine built around one of those budget boards, and a E2140/60 or E4400. Hope you get an M0, and have fun with it. Not that I'd object to a E6750 either.
 
I recently built a gamebox for something to do. Prices in Cdn. $

Sonata III case with included Antec Earthwatts 500W psu: $125 Cdn; (quiet and fairly cool)
XFX 650i Ultra Mobo: $99 less $20 MIR; (added 60mm fan to nb hs)
e4400 C2D cpu, $125
Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro $22;
BFG 8800GTS 320 $250 (second hand)
Hitachi 250GB Sata HD - $49;
2x1GB Kingston Valueram 667 (sitting on shelf, forget original purchase price);
DVD+/-R Optical (also from shelf)

Lapped the e4400 (ihs was concave, making the temps high).
Overclocked from 2ghz to 3.4ghz stable (8+ hrs Orthos small FFTs). Game stable at 3.6ghz (too heaty for Orthos). Back at 3.4.

Very happy with the results, and the cost/benefit ratio.
 
I disagree with the premise that OCing costs more money (at least not enough more to even consider the expense) when building a machine intended for gaming, In fact buying a CPU rated at a lower clock speed and OCing it will save you more money than you spend on the necessary items (see below) and have a performance above the $800 CPU you would not OC. See my sig, that $180 dollar processor is performing above the level of an $985 x6800 extream and I did not spend anywhere near the $800 price difference to make it do that.

For a gaming machine the video card is the key and so that is a fixed expense and does not enter the picture. Same for the display, mouse and keyboard.

Buying good quality components vs. good quality components that will OC cost no more money.

Decent P35 motherboard $125
Get the cheapest dual or quad core with full cache - there is no cost to OCing.
Good quality power supply - would be required for the video card anyway - no cost due to OCing.
Any decent PC6400 (800MHz) memory will get you to a CPU speed of 3.2+ GHz - no cost due to OCIng.
HD no need for any special HD, games load and then the HD does very little if nothing so no need for anything special - no cost for OCing.
Case - I can spec an excellent case for OCing for $40 you want better mainly for the looks, case design has little impact on OCing if chosen properly. 120mm fans front and rear are the main concern for reduced noise and good airflow and a well designed computer would have those anyway for reliability - no cost for OCing.

The only significant added cost for OCing is a decent CPU heatsink/fan and as that adds reliability its cost is easily justified. Arctic freezer 7 Pro is $30.

Now if you want too, you can spend a fortune for that extra 5% of performance but it for Intel boards, its costs very little more for a very OC-able system than it does to go cheap.


So by my way of thinking, and its weird sometimes, feel free to disagree, for an Intel board the cost of building a solid reliable machine vs a solid reliable machine that OCs to 3.2 like its a walk in the park, is the cost of a decent CPU heatsink/fan and thoughtful selection of good quality yet not expensive parts and considering the system as a whole before you go randomly buying stuff.

Therefore I contend it is less cost effective to NOT overclock.
 
In Canada here are the costs analysis for you.

QX6800 is $1405.99 (2.93 GHz)
Q6600 is $319.99 (2.40 GHz)

You don't even need a super fancy cooler for these new G0 Quads.

My Q6600 is running at 3.0 GHz fully stable @ 1.35v running on Thermaltake Armor LCS. I've overclocked quite a few with just a good fan like Thermaltake Big Typhoon.

One thing is for sure, my computer does heat up my entire room, espeically with my video card it's nuts.
 
Ok, so I've been thinking over the posts in this thread and have done some more research and am warming up to building a system around the Q6600. I'm thinking along the lines of a Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R and Arctic Freezer 7 Pro.

Since this will be my first OC attempt I'm OK with not achieving the absolute maximum overclock. I understand this isn't going to hit 3.6GHz like many people achieve with top quality air cooling like the Thermalright 120 Extreme, but could I still get a nice overclock with that setup?

Also, I do understand that the above question can't be answered with 100% certainty as each CPU has a different potential.
 
I will be so bold as to say if you follow the recommendations in this guide you will get to 3.2GHz like a walk in the park. Use PC6400 (800MHz memory) or better, I recommend you stay away from super exotic stuff. I like Corsair but anything that does not require more than 2.1V to operate is ok.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1030795318

I will be happy to help you all I can.

Power supply selection will be very important, but first select your video card as that and your fairly firm commitment to a Q6600 pretty much defines your power needs.

Preparation will be important, mainly the proper installation of the heatsink. This should be assembled (along with CPU and memory) outside the case. In fact I recommend having a nice non-cluttered work area and all parts at hand untouched in original boxes. (there is a reason). Check the bottom of the CPU heatsink for flatness and lapp it if needed, this is an easy cheap and fast modification. Be sure and get a tube of Arctic Silver thermal paste.

------- assembly tips-----------

First install the power supply into the case and plug the power supply into the wall. DO NOT TURN THE POWER SUPPLY ON. Check that the switch on the power supply is OFF. The point is now you have a nice grounded piece of metal (the entire metal surface of the case) to ground yourself with as you open your components and assemble the board out of the case. Make a habit of touching the case before you reach for something new. If you get up to grab a drink, on returning touch the case.

Further I recommend you assemble the basic machine outside the case (usually if you lay the case on its side on a towel, you don't want to scratch that baby, the power supply leads will be long enough to reach your board.) and test it before placing it in the case. Let it sit in the bios overnight once you boot it up and check the temps in the PC Health section of the bios.

(meanwhile you can install the motherboard standoffs, extra drives etc in the case before calling it a night. ).

If all goes well overnight or for 8 hours (it would not hurt to boot it a few times) consider checking the CPU for flatness and lapping that too. Its even quicker to do than the heatsink.

The lapping is probally all you will need to do. Perhaps a small fan attached to the MCH/Northbridge depending on what motherboard you buy.
 
I read through your guide you linked. Great resource. Bookmarked.

Now I think its time for me to iron out all the details of my soon to be Q6600 build. Thanks everyone!
 
ACF7 Pro on a Q6600 is a horrible waste. Spend the extra $20 for a Sunbeam Tuniq Tower or if that's too much even a $40 Scythe Ninja Plus Rev B. The ACF7 Pro is a really underwhelming cooler, only a notch above the Intel stock cooler.
 
They clearly screwed /something/ up, given that the Thermaltake Ultra 120 gave the same temps. Sorry. Reproduce those results somewhere else and we're good. Otherwise? Not buying it.
 
Frankly I too an a little worried about the artic freezer on a quad, it will do the job but I am concerned it will run at a fairly fast fan speed producing unwanted noise. But considering some more your desire for quiet, one of the larger (and unfortunately more expensive) heatsinks like the Tuniq or the Thermalright ultra would do the job better and allow the use of a quieter fan without allowing temps to rise. . The reason I avoided mentioning them to start is they are sometimes difficult to mount and I do not have personal experience with them ( I watercool). There is no rush in this decision, your video card, case and power supply are the first things you need to sort out.
 
Performance
OC'd Q6600 ($300) vs. QX6850 ($1000) for performance/price. Enough said.

Noise/Heat
I combined these because I'm going to give the same answer. Basically, if you get a quality cooler (Tuniq Tower, etc.), both of these are moot. Or you could go with some cheap water for about $200. Either way, both save you money over a higher priced chip.

Overall, unless you're going for records, OCing one of these chips, if only to 3.0 GHz, is more than worth it over buying a higher-stock clocked processor.
 
Ok, looks like I was jumping the gun a bit. If the Arctic Freezer isn't going to cut it, then no problem. If I'm going to do this, I want to do it right. I guess I was just put off a bit by the massive size of the Tunic and Thermalright 120, and someone mentioned the Freezer earlier in the thread so I was curious about it.

BillParrish, to answer your question right now I'm looking at the Antec P182 and Corsair 620HX. For the video card I was planning on cannibalizing my 7900GT from my current system and use that to hold me over until nVidia's next round of cards in November. Since I'm not playing any cutting age games at the moment, I figure it might be a good idea to wait for just a bit to see how well they perform.
 
mteksoldier said:
but is it possible to get a decent overclock on a Q6600 without cranking up the fans to 11? I'm not looking for a silent PC, but I don't want it to sound like a jet either.

Heat
Now a quad is going to crank out some heat, and OC'ing will only add to this, but does this mean that my room is going to turn into a sauna?

I appreciate any answers or links to resources that you can provide. Thank you.
Click to expand...


I'd say its absolutley possible !!! If you dont expect to break records then yes it can be done with little,or even no noise at all.I can run my g0 up to 3.5Ghz,but the vcore needs to pass 1.425~ and with a good fan on high.At 3.2Ghz,slowing my fan down became an option with my Tt V1.But by simply lowering a notch more I was able to go fanless with slightly better sink and a good application of high quality TIM.Mind you I lapped my ULTIMA 90 for near 45 minutes,that lowered my temps near 4 celcius.
 
mteksoldier said:
Ok, looks like I was jumping the gun a bit. If the Arctic Freezer isn't going to cut it, then no problem. If I'm going to do this, I want to do it right. I guess I was just put off a bit by the massive size of the Tunic and Thermalright 120, and someone mentioned the Freezer earlier in the thread so I was curious about it.

BillParrish, to answer your question right now I'm looking at the Antec P182 and Corsair 620HX. For the video card I was planning on cannibalizing my 7900GT from my current system and use that to hold me over until nVidia's next round of cards in November. Since I'm not playing any cutting age games at the moment, I figure it might be a good idea to wait for just a bit to see how well they perform.
Click to expand...

I recommend going with the Scythe Ninja because it's a pretty decent HSF for the price:
Scythe SCNJ-1100P Ninja HSF - $36

The P182 and Corsair 620HX are both excellent choices. You can get them cheaper however:
Antec P180B ATX Case - $130
Corsair HX620 620W PSU - $147

Don't worry, all the features found in the P182 has been added to the P180B. The only difference now are the color schemes.
 
http://www.antec.com/pdf/drawings/P182SE_manual_mechdrawing.pdf

I really like that case and I guess my jab about the case not making any big difference in sound/noise was a bit off, the layered side panels might just help. Couldn't hurt.

What really pleases me about that case is the power supply is not sitting at the top sucking in hot air which is terrible for the life of the power supply capacitors. And 120mm fans, lots of 120mm fans !! With the quad I would for sure put an additional fan in the upper front position just to help move more air through the upper PCB chamber and some cool intake air pushed towards your video card cant hurt. . A low speed fan would be fine. Probally will not need one in the lower chamber front unless you put 3 or more HDs in as they tend to block airflow. The center mounted fan I would think would pull enough air in past a single or dual drive (if 2 drives separate them by an empty bay and put one near the top of the bays and one near the bottom, the airflow pulled in by the center fan will hit them but leave the center of the bay open ). Since the shipping on a single fan is sometimes almost as much as the fan, adding one down there could not hurt or just having it in a drawer as a spare for one of the others or to be installed if HD temps seem high might be the way to go.


Thumbs up on the power supply, was a little worried at the bottom fan intake at first but I see the case has a platform it will sit on, no worries.

Solid stuff.

You probally found this but just in case, not recommending any particular one and since I watercool think I better defer to the air cooling experts for any targeted advice, but it is a nice roundup of the more common HS and I trust their testing method. I just grabbed the latest review as it has all the older results there should be a review of each heatsink listed somewhere on the site.

http://www.anandtech.com/casecoolingpsus/showdoc.aspx?i=3068&p=4

------------ advanced builder tip ----------------

Not sure of tools available, you will need an electric hand drill of some sort, but something I have found tremendously handy is to drill access holes in the motherboard mounting plate so one can take the right side panel off and have access to the CPU heatsink mounting bolts under the the board. This is not useful if the heatsink uses a backing plate with studs or some other method so it will depend on which heatsink and how it is attached as to the usefulness. If the heatsink has nuts on the underside of the board it is invaluable as it allows you to hold or tighten the underside nuts without having to remove the board from the case. Prior to assembling anything. Install 2 or 3 motherboard standoffs and mount the motherboard with just a couple of screws. Take a pencil (shave it skinny if you have to) and poke it down through the heatsink mounting holes on the motherboard to mark the hole locations on the mounting plate in the case. Remove the motherboard. Using a 1 inch (3/4 fine too) hole saw rated to cut metal (about $5 at Lowe's etc. ) cut a 1 inch hole in the motherboard mounting plate at each of the marks centered on the mark. Use rags to try and catch the filings/dust. With a new hole saw the edges of the holes should be fairly clean but touch up with a small piece of emery cloth (sandpaper for metal) to remove any sharp edges makes for a nice job. Get every scrap of dust and filings out of the case, vacuum it, wipe, and wipe again. Now you can pull the right side and have plenty of room to get a nut driver or whatever on the underside hardware holding your heatsink without removing the board. Again, evaluate the heatsink mounting method to determine if this would be useful, with my water blocks this trick is invaluable time saver.
 
Ok, another reason I was put off by the Thermalright 120 was that I was just checking Newegg for costs. Newegg had it for $65 and the Scythe S-Flex for $30! Spending over $100 with shipping factored in blew my mind. However, jab-tech has them for $50 and $14 respectively. I didn't realize that Newegg's prices had gotten so high. That seems more reasonable and would be doable for me. However, I think that would be the maximum I'd want to spend. Also, doing some searching I found pictures of the Thermalright in a P182, so no worries with fit (my other concern).

Reading BillParrish's Anandtech link, perhaps the Thermalright Ultima 90 with either a 120mm or 92mm fan might also be a great fit for me.

I read some reviews on the Scythe Ninja that was linked above. I like the price and the performance but I've read a lot of threads with people complaining about the clips and mounting problems. Not sure I want to deal with any of that.

Well, thanks to you guys I feel a lot more comfortable OC'ing in general and have a great deal of options to look over to form the right build. Assuming I'm in the right ballpark now, its time to do some more reading and get the right components selected. Can't wait!
 
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