NVIDIA rumored to be preparing GeForce RTX 4080/4070 SUPER cards

LukeTbk said:
This sound strange to me in many ways

Ampere was not on the weak side at 4k the 3080 was almost 70% stronger than the 2080
Lovelace was not on the weak side either, 4080 about 50% stronger than the 3080 (how can we talk about 4060ti performance, we never saw the 60Ti crush the previous xx80 like that), or at least it is under the 4070ti that it started to get weak, price was the only issue with the 4080.
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I totally agree, 3080 was the bright spot and i wish more people got their hands on them instead of going into mining rigs. Specifically with ampere though, the 3090 was a complete joke, so was the 3060. (I know first hand, I've owned every iteration of 3080 and up, 10GB, 12GB, ti and 3090) There is always a bright spot, at least in industries where you need to do research because companies don't have your best value interests at heart. (go back to 2xxx series, the whole lineup was debatably garbage)

Now I'm not going to be so naïve as to paint a rainbow care bear picture here, but the point is johhny appleseed goes into his local PC shop with X money, hes essentially rolling the dice on "value". It wasn't always that way, it doesn't need to be that way, the companies in power are choosing to be that way, that's all. Its kind of a lame argument anyway so I'll be happy to drop it, I just dislike underhanded behaviour.
 
Whiffle Boy said:
. (go back to 2xxx series, the whole lineup was debatably garbage)
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I think this is myth people repeat (or at least they mean the pricing not the tech)

With mature drivers the 2060 was beating the 1060 6GB by 63% at 1080p, 65% at 1440p, how was that garbage ? 2080 beat the 1080 by 47.5% at 1440p
relative-performance_1920-1080.png
 
Whiffle Boy said:
The main reason the 4090 is such a "killer" this gen, is becuase of how weak past gens have been, and just how WEAKER the lower stack is...
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the rest of the 4000 series outside of the 4090 does suck but the main reason for that is the pricing...$1200 for the 4080?...$800 for the 4070 Ti?...insane

at least with previous gens there were always great cards that weren't the top end...the GTX 970, GTX 1070 etc were great values...Nvidia killed the value cards with the 4000 series
 
LukeTbk said:
I think this is myth people repeat (or at least they mean the pricing not the tech)

With mature drivers the 2060 was beating the 1060 6GB by 63% at 1080p, 65% at 1440p, how was that garbage ? 2080 beat the 1080 by 47.5% at 1440p
View attachment 613673
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Since we are focusing on specific issues here, no problems I am always glad to oblige!

The 2080 wasn't competing against the 1080... more name muckery by NVIDIA and also a key part of my point... it was the same price as a 1080ti and barely faster than one. I know because I built a system at that time, and I made a vendor give me one instead of the 1080ti i had paid for.

Similar issues with the 1060, although you didn't mention which one. there are at least two versions of the 1060, and I believe four versions of the 2060 now, not including the super models. (2060 also was 50 more than 1060)

This is where the generational improvements versus value arguments then come into focus.
 
polonyc2 said:
the rest of the 4000 series outside of the 4090 does suck but the main reason for that is the pricing...$1200 for the 4080?...$800 for the 4070 Ti?...insane

at least with previous gens there were always great cards that weren't the top end...the GTX 970, GTX 1070 etc were great values...Nvidia killed the value cards with the 4000 series
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yep, totally agree with you here. I made a comment in a different thread about intel.

I want the feature complete $100 card to return. I bought one when my kids were little, cant even remember the name, it was a ati card though. it wasn't a 1080ti class card by any means, but I was playing counterstrike using on board intel graphics, when I switched to this it was like when I turned on my N64 for the first time, or the first time I saw a 3dfx card accelerate quake. simply breathtaking stuff.
 
Marees said:

NVIDIA Kills the RTX 4070 Ti and RTX 4080 to Make Way for the Super Refresh​

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it wouldn't make sense to keep the older cards on sale at the same time as the new Super models...they would have to drop the price on the original 4080 (and 4070 Ti) and a lot of people would just go for that over the refresh models...I know I would
 
FrgMstr said:
Production stopped a while ago....
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I was trying to find the report but NVidia stopped their TSMC orders if that silicon back around April.
They still have warehouses if it though. NVidia does like to keep a tight control of how much of their silicon is floating in the wild.

I wonder how many AIB’s if any are going to be put in a tight spot because of the 4090 bans. Most of the GPUs are assembled in China MSI, Gigabyte, Asus…
Since the 4090 made the lions share of the profits are they going to pack it in or will they move their manufacturing to Taiwan, India, or maybe Mexico So they can still make them?
 
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polonyc2 said:
it wouldn't make sense to keep the older cards on sale at the same time as the new Super models...they would have to drop the price on the original 4080 (and 4070 Ti) and a lot of people would just go for that over the refresh models...I know I would
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There’s so many of them out there unsold that will be getting a price cut that it doesn’t make a lot of sense to keep at them. Especially with them needing to rework their supply lines to accommodate the China bans.

Because if the rumours are true about Blackwells performance and the US Government keeps the ban in place then the GB202 and the GB203 are unlikely to be allowed to cross the China border and supply lines aren’t something you can just change on the fly that takes time, so I’m thinking they are using this to get their facilities in order to continue manufacturing.
 
Lakados said:
I wonder how many AIB’s if any are going to be put in a tight spot because of the 4090 bans. Most of the GPUs are assembled in China MSI, Gigabyte, Asus…
Since the 4090 made the lions share of the profits are they going to pack it in or will they move their manufacturing to Taiwan, India, or maybe Mexico So they can still make them?
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Yeah, a fact that a lot of folks are totally missing. AIB can't build4090s in China any more. I am going to guess that most of the 4090 production goes to Mexico.
 
FrgMstr said:
Yeah, a fact that a lot of folks are totally missing. AIB can't build4090s in China any more. I am going to guess that most of the 4090 production goes to Mexico.
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And since the 4090 and the 4080 share the same PCB, does it make financial sense to keep making the 4080 in China if they have to move the 4090 production elsewhere? The AIBs are then duplicating a distribution chain while reducing its volume and that eats profits on those cards which then forces those AIBs to seriously reconsider if it's worth it given how many they have unsold sitting on store shelves and the margins aren't stellar to begin with. And with looming price cuts on the non-super cards they may just find it makes more sense to pack up production on those models altogether, consolidate the supply chain, and let the market sort itself out on pricing as those variants dwindle down and the supers take their place.

AIBs keep their margins by reusing as many components in as many places as possible and sourcing them in volume from the same places, if suddenly they need to split that supply and extend shipping lanes and have things backtrack, profit margins quickly disappear which is what kept EVGA with such small margins and we all know how that went.
 
LukeTbk said:
the 2060 was beating the 1060 6GB by 63% at 1080p, ;)
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Sure, ;)

Which 2060? KO, super, re-launched version?

You will find we agree on most of this convo in the end I believe, I don't think I ever intended to say that all SKU's were trash or that the value wasn't there. I am typing on a 2060 super based system right now, since the main use I have here in the physical office is general VRAM. speed wasn't an issue when I built this 10900k system.

I struggle more with what should/can my new system be. I most likely will go 14700k due to AMD not being vendor friendly with our suppliers, both CPU and GPU. The 10900k is a different beast from these new sockets, but still a noctua D-15 can tame them for what we use them for.

I do not know what route to go with GPU though. I think I would kick my own butt if I put an ARC in here... after complaining about stability and compatibility... haha. So I now get forced into higher tiers of performance which are not needed, and this frustrates me.

Thanks for the back and forth chats, cheers.
 
Lakados said:
There’s so many of them out there unsold that will be getting a price cut that it doesn’t make a lot of sense to keep at them. Especially with them needing to rework their supply lines to accommodate the China bans.

Because if the rumours are true about Blackwells performance and the US Government keeps the ban in place then the GB202 and the GB203 are unlikely to be allowed to cross the China border and supply lines aren’t something you can just change on the fly that takes time, so I’m thinking they are using this to get their facilities in order to continue manufacturing.
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Finally, a $100 price drop on the 4080 FE here in Canada, I still think its a far cry from being anywhere near enough to move these. With supers coming I am wondering if this is just the beginning as all the FE's appear to be on sale with exception of the 4090 FE.

The two FE units that showed up at launch at the best buy here, are still sitting in the same spot on the shelf. One has a handprint on it, someone thought it was a 4090. Best buy isnt really a big component seller in canada so not a lot gets sold out of the cabinets, especially outside of the larger metropolitan cities (all three of them here).

I have seen a larger than usual dump of 4090's here this week, wonder if this is good or bad. It is hard to not see the 4090 focused discussions about scalper pricing and being sold out, but it's all USA based from my POV still. I thought people weren't purchasing as many of the crazy strix versions of these, given the pricing but holy cow are there ever a lot showing up in stores and they are still flying off the shelves.
 
I dunno, maybe it’s better to buy another card before somebody comes up with another bullshit crypto pyramid scheme and makes them unobtainable again.
 
Whiffle Boy said:
Which 2060? KO, super, re-launched version?
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The screenshot was included in part because of the non-obvious nature of the statement will all the sku, the regular 2060. I think the bad price (which is a bit revisionist in term of what the 1060 was going for in the real world in 2017 when the 2060 was announced) clouded the view in term of performance jump.

The 2060 was a 445mm die instead of 200mm yes it was more expensive, but a 60% performance jump, Pascal created really high expectation in terms of performance jump.
 
Marees said:
(Rumour) nvidia planning 6gb 3050 (along with the super launches)

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-...3050-with-6gb-vram-8gb-model-to-be-phased-out
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I thought that was leaked a while ago as a PCIe powered, low profile, sub $200 card.

https://wccftech.com/nvidia-new-gef...2024-70w-tgp-cut-down-specs-lower-prices/amp/

Here it is:
https://hardforum.com/threads/wccft...next-year-based-on-cut-down-rtx-3050.2030877/

But yeah, Nvidia needs something to replace the 1650 and to compete against the 6400, they have a low profile 4060 variant, but it is too expensive and too thirsty for most cases that can fit it.
 
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1_rick said:
So...no availability in the rest of the world until March?
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depending on the price point (if it follow above 4060 Lovelace pricing until now) in the rest of the world, low volume would not mean no availability would be my feeling.

And they could stacked them for a long time.

Until now under 9728 core AD103 (the 4080-4090mobile-RTX 5000 all using 9728) had 0 product line from Nvidia, not that big of a chip, 9728 core was still a 95% working requirement and the 4080 was launched in september 2022, how many over time good enough for a 4070Ti super but not for a 4080-4090 mobile build up over say early august 2022 to january 2024, not that a card priced has high as a 4070ti super would necessarily large volume.
 
LukeTbk said:
depending on the price point (if it follow above 4060 Lovelace pricing until now) in the rest of the world, low volume would not mean no availability would be my feeling.
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I meant not the usual low availability on launch but specifically "nobody's going to be shipping stuff during Chinese New Year", since you specifically mentioned that. But maybe nvidia can pay someone overtime to put 'em on a boat.
 
1_rick said:
I meant not the usual low availability on launch but specifically "nobody's going to be shipping stuff during Chinese New Year", since you specifically mentioned that. But maybe nvidia can pay someone overtime to put 'em on a boat.
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Nah, even if they did the ports of landing would have similar issues, it might get things on a shelf a week earlier at nearly twice the cost.
Just sit back and enjoy the cosmic fluke that gives our wallets a much needed break.
 
1_rick said:
I meant not the usual low availability on launch but specifically "nobody's going to be shipping stuff during Chinese New Year", since you specifically mentioned that. But maybe nvidia can pay someone overtime to put 'em on a boat.
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No the comments was more, Chinese new years week celeberation is a bit an east Asian black friday if you will, spending wise:
https://pattern.com/blog/chinese-new-year-ecommerce-opportunity/#:~:text=The growth momentum continued in,% year-over-year.
During the first five days of the Spring Festival holiday, the People’s Bank of China’s clearinghouse platform processed online payment transactions worth RMB 4.2 trillion (USD 660.3 billion),

I could imagine that company like the product to be out to sale for the public in time for it, it will be February 10 in 2024.

Companies get their stuff made and shipped in advance to avoid the full week stop issues, should not be an issue in that regard.
 
LukeTbk said:
No the comments was more, Chinese new years week celeberation is a bit an east Asian black friday if you will, spending wise
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Ok. I didn't click through, so I was talking about the vacation thing, not the sale thing. I didn't even know CNY was a Black Friday-type event (although I have had electronics delayed before due to the holiday work pause.)
 
1_rick said:
Ok. I didn't click through, so I was talking about the vacation thing, not the sale thing. I didn't even know CNY was a Black Friday-type event (although I have had electronics delayed before due to the holiday work pause.)
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I think it is only a week long holiday but that also with a tradition to give cash in a red envelope to young not-married family member (a good target for those items) and spending that come with it.
 
LukeTbk said:
I think it is only a week long holiday but that also with a tradition to give cash in a red envelope to young not-married family member (a good target for those items) and spending that come with it.
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That, I did know about. (Guild Wars 2 has a New Year's holiday and one of the things are red "luck" envelopes, although that's not where I learned of the custom.)
 
LukeTbk said:
Was there availability issues for Lovelace outside the 4090 ? They did seem to have msrp high enough to have stock available
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No but NVidia spends a good 2 months getting products to their respective warehouses before they announce them to prevent that issue.
Also the Lovelace series as a whole was priced not to move to encourage people to buy a 3000 series parts to get them off the market. Nvidia hates competing against its own components so produce half the 4000 series cards, price them to be terrible price/performance against existing stock reallocate that silicon to enterprise to meet that demand head on then adjust the prices once things settle.
That price adjustment is the Super refresh. Enterprise demand is satiated, and soon to be on a different node all together and while Nvidia still has a lot of 4000 series cards on the shelves it has more than enough wiggle room in those prices to drop the MSRP on them to clear.
 
Lakados said:
I’m hopeful it’s the corrected 6x2 design but we’ll see.
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I'd still prefer an 8 PIN. I don't really want to use an adapter, because it is another failure point and I assume some brands will give subpar converters. I also don't see the point on a lower power card. I understand the 4090s and maybe 4080s, but 4070 Super is pointless.
 
Flogger23m said:
I a
Flogger23m said:
I'd still prefer an 8 PIN. I don't really want to use an adapter, because it is another failure point and I assume some brands will give subpar converters. I also don't see the point on a lower power card. I understand the 4090s and maybe 4080s, but 4070 Super is pointless.
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I have a general rule about brands, especially for stuff on eBay. If I can't pronounce the name, or the brand name is a nonsense word, I avoid those products. Those brands are usually "fronts" for 2nd tier and 3rd tier Chinese companies with lousy products and customer service to match. (It's a common business practice in China.)
 
philb2 said:
I have a general rule about brands, especially for stuff on eBay. If I can't pronounce the name, or the brand name is a nonsense word, I avoid those products. Those brands are usually "fronts" for 2nd tier and 3rd tier Chinese companies with lousy products and customer service to match. (It's a common business practice in China.)
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latest?cb=20110411175456.jpg
 
Why don't they go with ultra again? That has its roots back in the Geforce 2 line. Super sounds almost childish.
 
philb2 said:
I have a general rule about brands, especially for stuff on eBay. If I can't pronounce the name, or the brand name is a nonsense word, I avoid those products. Those brands are usually "fronts" for 2nd tier and 3rd tier Chinese companies with lousy products and customer service to match. (It's a common business practice in China.)
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I'm thinking about what the brands like MSI, Gigabyte, etc. will include. I think they will probably be fine, but I assume some brands might not make the converters in house. And then it just makes cable management a bigger problem.
 
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