Nvidia Purposely Reducing Hash Rate for RTX 3060 GPUs, Creates Cryptocurrency Mining Processors (CMP)

exlink

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RTX 3060 software drivers are designed to detect specific attributes of the Ethereum cryptocurrency mining algorithm, and limit the hash rate, or cryptocurrency mining efficiency, by around 50 percent.

That only makes sense. Our GeForce RTX GPUs introduce cutting-edge technologies — such as RTX real-time ray-tracing, DLSS AI-accelerated image upscaling technology, Reflex super-fast response rendering for the best system latency, and many more — tailored to meet the needs of gamers and those who create digital experiences.

To address the specific needs of Ethereum mining, we’re announcing the NVIDIA CMP, or, Cryptocurrency Mining Processor, product line for professional mining.

CMP products — which don’t do graphics — are sold through authorized partners and optimized for the best mining performance and efficiency. They don’t meet the specifications required of a GeForce GPU and, thus, don’t impact the availability of GeForce GPUs to gamers.

For instance, CMP lacks display outputs, enabling improved airflow while mining so they can be more densely packed. CMPs also have a lower peak core voltage and frequency, which improves mining power efficiency.


GeForce Is Made for Gaming, CMP Is Made to Mine

 

kju1

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exlink

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*yawn* and someone will just hack the drivers to remove the restriction. Problem solved.

The bigger issue here is that Nvidia is finally admitting they are diverting silicon to miners instead of gamers. I highly doubt they are running up another fab line with a "custom" chip just for miners.
Apparently AMD purposely reduces the hash rate on their latest RDNA 2 GPUs. Not sure if that is done through software or hardware modifications though. Would be interesting to see how the two compare in their approach.

But yeah, this is just Nvidia confirming what we already knew about selling silicon directly to miners.
 

kju1

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Apparently AMD purposely reduces the hash rate on their latest RDNA 2 GPUs. Not sure if that is done through software or hardware modifications though. Would be interesting to see how the two compare in their approach.

But yeah, this is just Nvidia confirming what we already knew about selling silicon directly to miners.

Yeah if its hardware its likely not worth the miners time to try to circumvent. Its still doable for a competent engineer, which most miners are probably not. Software though? I laugh at software restrictions. Just look at DRM and how effective that is.

If AMD is doing hardware restrictions then I have more respect for them and just maybe they will get some of my money for a GPU...
 

BassTek

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The hashrate on RDNA 2 falls in line with other cards with similar memory speed and bus width as far as I can tell. I think the talk that they 'limited' it is mainly around the choice of sticking to a 256bit bus width with standard GDDR6 rather than going wider or with something faster like HBM. Also they added the infinity cache which helps games but doesn't help with mining.

As far as Nvidia software limiting mining, I'm not sure if that will do much. I guess we will see if miners figure out a way to hack the drivers which I assume they will.
 

Axman

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Apparently AMD purposely reduces the hash rate on their latest RDNA 2 GPUs.
I doubt it. They have a compute mode in the driver. Plus, this makes no sense.
RTX 3060 software drivers are designed to detect specific attributes of the Ethereum cryptocurrency mining algorithm, and limit the hash rate, or cryptocurrency mining efficiency, by around 50 percent.
This also makes no sense. Why would either company want to make their products less appealing to casual miners? Why would they want to give professional miners the impression that their products could have any sort of artificial bottleneck involved, even if it's only using official drivers?

I'm a lot more inclined to believe that this is a CYA statement made to give non-mining gamers the impression that Nvidia cares, even if they are selling some stock directly to miners.

This forum has a mining sub. There is an overlap between mining and gaming, by design.
 

exlink

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I doubt it. They have a compute mode in the driver. Plus, this makes no sense.
Just going by what Kyle said:

FrgMstr said:
I would suggest to you that is not AMD's gameplan. 6800 cards are nerfed for high-end mining (about 60 hash). AMD is jumping through hoops to make sure gamer GPUs get to gamers. Selling to miners does nothing for its brand or mindshare. For AMD to move forward in the gaming market it knows it has to sell cards to gamers.

https://hardforum.com/threads/you-k...es-through-with-stock.2003154/post-1044819816

By “nerfed” I’m assuming that the hash rate was intentionally reduced.
 

FrgMstr

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Yeah if its hardware its likely not worth the miners time to try to circumvent. Its still doable for a competent engineer, which most miners are probably not. Software though? I laugh at software restrictions. Just look at DRM and how effective that is.

If AMD is doing hardware restrictions then I have more respect for them and just maybe they will get some of my money for a GPU...
I was told that steps were taken with RDNA 2 to make it not as attractive with miners. No idea what exactly what that was, but it is apparent if you look at hash rates and wattages.
 

exlink

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Looks like I am going to be looking for an AMD card now and give Nvidia a big fuck you for the next two or three generations.
I already have a RTX 3090, but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t waiting to see how the 6900 XT Liquid Devil performs before settling on a GPU. Purposely haven’t put a block on my 3090 yet as that’ll seal the deal for me on which GPU I stay with.
 

coynatha

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Why don't the big companies like nVidia just mine the crypto themselves?

The fact that they don't, tells me it's clearly not worth the effort.
 

kju1

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I already have a RTX 3090, but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t waiting to see how the 6900 XT Liquid Devil performs before settling on a GPU. Purposely haven’t put a block on my 3090 yet as that’ll seal the deal for me on which GPU I stay with.

I honestly don't care if the 3090 performed better or not at this point. Nvidia has done enough to piss me off that I simply do not want to purchase their products anymore. So I am voting with my wallet.

Why don't the big companies like nVidia just mine the crypto themselves?

The fact that they don't, tells me it's clearly not worth the effort.

There are likely a number of factors at play here (and tbh we dont know that they dont do this). First off they would be eating into GPU, err I mean CMP, sales which is likely more profitable for them than mining is. And then there is the fact that mining is volatile and regulations around it are still firming up.

IMO it doesn't make sense - eventually bitcoin will be fully mined out. No the far better play is to sell the equipment miners need and let them be the ones holding the bag when all the coins are mined.
 

BassTek

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Looks like they have a full mining lineup planned, oddly there is a 10GB card that only has a hash rate of 45MH/s which is way down from even a 3060 ti/3070. A normal 3080 gets 85-95MH/s which they also have a model for:

nvidia_mining.PNG

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/cmp/
 

Parja

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Well this should be interesting. How long before NVIDIA gets sued, ya figure?
 

Axman

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I was told that steps were taken with RDNA 2 to make it not as attractive with miners.
It must be limited to RDNA2 and not other product lines, which would go a long way to explaining why old RX 580s are selling for what they're selling for.

But still, that kinda sucks at the same time because I mine in my office when it's cold out; it only has electric heating so it's literally wasteful not to mine when I'm not otherwise using the hardware.

Hopefully this is temporary or that a workaround is simple. I know it's super-important for AMD to recap that mindshare, but rock, meet hard place. Especially when it comes to volume parts like in the 6700 series. They can (and probably both will and should) point to Nvidia as the mining company boogyman, but they are doing it at the expense of the hobby miner.

Why don't the big companies like nVidia just mine the crypto themselves?
My guess is geography. The mining companies are located in places where energy costs are naturally low or subsidized. They're already selling 100 percent of their product, so it's not like they have to figure out what to do with inventory piling up.
 

sk3tch

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I was told that steps were taken with RDNA 2 to make it not as attractive with miners. No idea what exactly what that was, but it is apparent if you look at hash rates and wattages.
Didn't they also say they were going to have plenty of stock? I mean...a great gaming card plus 60 MH/s is not a slouch. It isn't exactly super gimped.
 

Dark12

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Very neat.
Drivers will get hacked quickly, but the gimped memory on the 3060 will have its effects.

These hashrates are garbage for the wattage requirement and loss of resale value: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/cmp/
They better be cheap if they are gonna detract miners.

I assume miners will be able to tweak the numbers by reducing power limits and increasing memory speed though.
 

DanNeely

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Looks like they have a full mining lineup planned, oddly there is a 10GB card that only has a hash rate of 45MH/s which is way down from even a 3060 ti/3070. A normal 3080 gets 85-95MH/s which they also have a model for:

View attachment 330648

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/cmp/

I'd ask why those cards aren't called 26HX, 36HX, 45HX, and 86HX; but expecting sanity in anything related to ponzicoins is contra-indicated.
 

HockeyJon

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*yawn* and someone will just hack the drivers to remove the restriction. Problem solved.

The bigger issue here is that Nvidia is finally admitting they are diverting silicon to miners instead of gamers. I highly doubt they are running up another fab line with a "custom" chip just for miners.

As a gamer myself, not a miner, and more specfically, a gamer who was prepared to upgrade as soon as the 3080 was launched, I'm as frustrated as everyone else, but objectively, what do you expect Nvidia to do? We're not entitled to anything, we're just another customer class. If I'm Jensen Huang and a mining operation calls me up trying to fill a 747 Jumbo Jet full of GPUs (as happened in 2017) to mine fake internet money, what do you think he's going to say? "Sorry bro, I only work for gamers"? Is that what you would say if you were the CEO of Nvidia with a duty to shareholders to maximize sales and profits? If I'm a shareholder of Nvidia and I find out they're walking away from millions of dollars in sales and letting AMD have it, I would be absolutely livid.

That said, this driver thing won't do anything. Miners are typically technical people, they'll modify it as seen fit and resume as normal. They'll buy up the mining cards, and then buy up GPUs when those mining cards are out of stock and modify the drivers. Rinse, repeat. The only things that will help here are an increase in supply, or a crash in the crypto market. That's basically it. This announcement from Nvidia is obviously marketing to gamers to make them think they have their back or whatever, but it's not going to do anything to address the issue as far as I can see.
 

Endgame

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It must be limited to RDNA2 and not other product lines, which would go a long way to explaining why old RX 580s are selling for what they're selling for.

But still, that kinda sucks at the same time because I mine in my office when it's cold out; it only has electric heating so it's literally wasteful not to mine when I'm not otherwise using the hardware.
If all you need is heat, fire up folding at home and / or any number of BOINC projects. Shouldn’t matter if mining is gimped, you’ll still be able to generate heat and contribute to medical research
 

kju1

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As a gamer myself, not a miner, and more specfically, a gamer who was prepared to upgrade as soon as the 3080 was launched, I'm as frustrated as everyone else, but objectively, what do you expect Nvidia to do? We're not entitled to anything, we're just another customer class. If I'm Jensen Huang and a mining operation calls me up trying to fill a 747 Jumbo Jet full of GPUs (as happened in 2017) to mine fake internet money, what do you think he's going to say? "Sorry bro, I only work for gamers"? Is that what you would say if you were the CEO of Nvidia with a duty to shareholders to maximize sales and profits? If I'm a shareholder of Nvidia and I find out they're walking away from millions of dollars in sales and letting AMD have it, I would be absolutely livid.

That said, this driver thing won't do anything. Miners are typically technical people, they'll modify it as seen fit and resume as normal. They'll buy up the mining cards, and then buy up GPUs when those mining cards are out of stock and modify the drivers. Rinse, repeat. The only things that will help here are an increase in supply, or a crash in the crypto market. That's basically it. This announcement from Nvidia is obviously marketing to gamers to make them think they have their back or whatever, but it's not going to do anything to address the issue as far as I can see.

I expect them too sell to miners, what I dont expect is to be lied to about their intentions which imo is exactly what they are doing. For what its worth I was also a share holder and I sold my shares and walked away.

I expect honesty. You want to sell to miners and just give gamers the left overs? Fine but do me the decency of being honest about it not this half hearted bullshit of oh we care! Couple that with the lack of inventory and I no longer feel Nvidia is worth doing business with.
 

Mystique

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As a gamer myself, not a miner, and more specfically, a gamer who was prepared to upgrade as soon as the 3080 was launched, I'm as frustrated as everyone else, but objectively, what do you expect Nvidia to do? We're not entitled to anything, we're just another customer class. If I'm Jensen Huang and a mining operation calls me up trying to fill a 747 Jumbo Jet full of GPUs (as happened in 2017) to mine fake internet money, what do you think he's going to say? "Sorry bro, I only work for gamers"? Is that what you would say if you were the CEO of Nvidia with a duty to shareholders to maximize sales and profits? If I'm a shareholder of Nvidia and I find out they're walking away from millions of dollars in sales and letting AMD have it, I would be absolutely livid.

That said, this driver thing won't do anything. Miners are typically technical people, they'll modify it as seen fit and resume as normal. They'll buy up the mining cards, and then buy up GPUs when those mining cards are out of stock and modify the drivers. Rinse, repeat. The only things that will help here are an increase in supply, or a crash in the crypto market. That's basically it. This announcement from Nvidia is obviously marketing to gamers to make them think they have their back or whatever, but it's not going to do anything to address the issue as far as I can see.
It is a pretty big step. They wouldn't just announce they're messing with your GPU in the driver unless they were also considering doing this in the future. This could be "just for the 3060", but also not, time will tell. Might happen to the eventual 3080Ti..

"People will hack.."..yeah.. while possible, it's definitely not ideal in the slightest to have to work around this, so its not nothing.
 

ChadD

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I know... this isn't a super popular opinion around these parts.

However;
if AMD really did on purpose cripple their RDNA2... they are retarded and deserve to loose money.
if Nvidia is going to firmware cripple 3060s so they can sell "mining" cards.... WTF is the point. If they don't cripple 3070s, and try and charge 3070 prices for 3060 chipped mining cards why would the miners not just buy 3070s and undervolt them or whatever tricks they employee. And if they are pulling the chips from the same pool WTF is the difference if there not trying to charge more for the mining cards. Which means the only point of this move is to make more MONEY for Nvidia.

If they do something like this is seems like PR for the gamerz and nothing more. This will not fix stock this will not ensure stock this will not effect how much money Nvidia makes. (cause try as they may miners will not pay more for the same card) Its PR, nothing more. And if as some have suggested AMD crippled RDNA2 in general... there fucking stupid only a company run by morons would turn down money.

I understand for long term sales security you want to keep gamers happy cause we will be around after the crypto hunters move on to ASICs or whatever. However the ASIC stuff seems to never be able to keep up with the rapid advancements in GPUs.... or the pricing of volume GPUs offer over custom ASICs that have zero resell when the hash leaves them behind. (not counting the massive mining companies making their own chips) There is a very good chance... that GPUs being used to mine is a thing that is NEVER going to end. Big companies are buying crypto currency in Billion dollar transactions. Crypto is not going away... and GPUs are going to be on the leading edge of mining them likely forever. Unless GPUs ever get to the fast enough for ever point.

Anyway Nice PR stunt Nvidia.... but I hope most people see it for exactly what it is, and don't fall for the Nvidia loves us its the evil crypto hunters line. Nvidia loves money and will sell to whoever pays cash.

EDIT... and thinking about AMD crippling RDNA2.... IF they had tons and tons of stock it would perhaps have been a stroke of genius. It would have ensured they sold more cards then Nvidia to gamers and perhaps start really eroding Nvidias mind share wins. I don't think they are playing 4D chess here though. Its very likely their cards are just not as good at crunching mining stuff cause that is the way it is. :)
 
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sk3tch

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Anyway Nice PR stunt Nvidia.... but I hope most people see it for exactly what it is, and don't fall for the Nvidia loves us its the evil crypto hunters line.

It's gonna be a good hot take for investors. They're not as clued into the intricacies of the gaming and GPU market. They see BTC blowing up and they see NVIDIA developing a custom line to help further adapt to the market demand. $$$$$
 

exlink

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I expect them too sell to miners, what I dont expect is to be lied to about their intentions which imo is exactly what they are doing. For what its worth I was also a share holder and I sold my shares and walked away.

I expect honesty. You want to sell to miners and just give gamers the left overs? Fine but do me the decency of being honest about it not this half hearted bullshit of oh we care! Couple that with the lack of inventory and I no longer feel Nvidia is worth doing business with.
You expect honesty from a publicly traded company whose biggest interest is the bottom line to impress investors? You are setting yourself up for disappointment. And this isn’t just in regards to Nvidia. They all literally have PR departments to spin everything.
 

Archaea

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Looks like they have a full mining lineup planned, oddly there is a 10GB card that only has a hash rate of 45MH/s which is way down from even a 3060 ti/3070. A normal 3080 gets 85-95MH/s which they also have a model for:

View attachment 330648

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/cmp/


1613664444049.png


Junk

My 3060 TI FE mines at 60Mhs at 120 watts
My 3070 FE mines at 62MHs at 130 watts
My 3080 Asus Tuf OC mines at 102Mhs at 221 watts.


Which of these cards above is equitable? If Nvidia pulls the same Shens they did with the P102 and 104 mining cards they will cost MORE than the gaming card equivalent, have no display output, hash the same and use the same power, but be worthless for resale if the crypto market crashes. At first blush these CMP cards look even worse than the P102 and P104 cards because they use way more power for less hash rate.
As a hobby miner - I wouldn't buy a CMP card unless the price is significantly lower - like half. And you can wager almost anything, Nvidia won't make the CMP cards half the price of the gaming variety.

another article on this:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/16493/nvidia-launches-cmp-dedicated-mining-hardware
 

kju1

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You expect honesty from a publicly traded company whose biggest interest is the bottom line to impress investors? You are setting yourself up for disappointment. And this isn’t just in regards to Nvidia. They all literally have PR departments to spin everything.

There are honest companies out there.
 

HockeyJon

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I expect them too sell to miners, what I dont expect is to be lied to about their intentions which imo is exactly what they are doing. For what its worth I was also a share holder and I sold my shares and walked away.

I expect honesty. You want to sell to miners and just give gamers the left overs? Fine but do me the decency of being honest about it not this half hearted bullshit of oh we care! Couple that with the lack of inventory and I no longer feel Nvidia is worth doing business with.

How, exactly, are they lying about their intentions? Where did they say they were going to be selling exclusively to gamers and then turned around and clandestinely shipped to miners instead?
 

ChadD

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It's gonna be a good hot take for investors. They're not as clued into the intricacies of the gaming and GPU market. They see BTC blowing up and they see NVIDIA developing a custom line to help further adapt to the market demand. $$$$$

Good point this could be more a investor PR move the a gamers one lol... we all know the little miners would rather buy a gaming card so they can liquidated it in 6 months for 90% of what they paid for it. OR in some cases more then they paid for it. lol Where as a 6 month old mining specific card will be trash.
Investors.... ya I can buy that many of them are that stupid. Although I would say the last year investors in general have been learning what they need to know about crypto with all the insecurity... it seems right you bet on the fails and store it in crypto. I have a feeling most of the investors are also pretty wise to why gaming cards are popular in the mines. You can slave them for 6 months to a year then sell them to their new owners for damn near full pop.
 

HockeyJon

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View attachment 330664

Junk

My 3060 TI FE mines at 60Mhs at 120 watts
My 3070 FE mines at 62MHs at 130 watts
My 3080 Asus Tuf OC mines at 102Mhs at 221 watts.


Which of these cards above is equitable? If Nvidia pulls the same Shens they did with the P102 and 104 mining cards they will cost MORE than the gaming card equivalent, have no display output, hash the same and use the same power, but be worthless for resale if the crypto market crashes. At first blush these CMP cards look even worse than the P102 and P104 cards because they use way more power for less hash rate.
As a hobby miner - I wouldn't buy a CMP card unless the price is significantly lower - like half. And you can wager almost anything, Nvidia won't make the CMP cards half the price of the gaming variety.

This was my thought exactly. Mining operations will buy CMP cards if nothing else is available (which is incredibly likely at this rate), but the lack of resale value is going to change the calculus on the total ROI. If you can't resell the card when you're done with it, you're going to have to factor in the lack of resale value as a component in your up-front investment. These will be less desirable to miners for sure for that reason, at least at the hobby level.
 

HockeyJon

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It is a pretty big step. They wouldn't just announce they're messing with your GPU in the driver unless they were also considering doing this in the future. This could be "just for the 3060", but also not, time will tell. Might happen to the eventual 3080Ti..

"People will hack.."..yeah.. while possible, it's definitely not ideal in the slightest to have to work around this, so its not nothing.

It's a minor speed bump at best. If you're a miner minting serious amounts of fake internet money, you're going to also take the step of removing the minor inconvenience of modifying the drivers to make the card do what you want it to do. The primary purpose of this announcement is to placate furious gamers, who still make up a significant proportion of Nvidia's customer base. Perhaps the less cynical among them will welcome this. I don't see it as anything significant. Hardware-level changes would be significant. Software-level changes are not significant.
 

BassTek

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View attachment 330664

Junk

My 3060 TI FE mines at 60Mhs at 120 watts
My 3070 FE mines at 62MHs at 130 watts
My 3080 Asus Tuf OC mines at 102Mhs at 221 watts.


Which of these cards above is equitable? If Nvidia pulls the same Shens they did with the P102 and 104 mining cards they will cost MORE than the gaming card equivalent, have no display output, hash the same and use the same power, but be worthless for resale if the crypto market crashes. At first blush these CMP cards look even worse than the P102 and P104 cards because they use way more power for less hash rate.
As a hobby miner - I wouldn't buy a CMP card unless the price is significantly lower - like half. And you can wager almost anything, Nvidia won't make the CMP cards half the price of the gaming variety.

another article on this:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/16493/nvidia-launches-cmp-dedicated-mining-hardware

True, they aren't very attractive. I imagine the power ratings are high and a 90HX will have similar power usage to a 3080 when tuned for mining. The other cards are not desirable at all compared to what is already on the market if you can actually find something in stock.
 

Axman

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Shouldn’t matter if mining is gimped, you’ll still be able to generate heat and contribute to medical research
I don't want to contribute to someone else on my dime. I want to contribute to me.

The amount of time I spend gaming is less than the amount of time I can leave the computer on, consequence-free, earning money, which I can then use to improve my gaming library, upgrade, or waste on beer.

While gaming is really my main concern when buying hardware, sometimes even work hardware, mining's going to be a factor. I don't want either company neutering what is otherwise multi-purpose hardware.

What if AMD or Nvidia said they were going to limit the video rendering capabilities of their video cards to prevent professional users from buying up their inventory? People would be furious. Even peoople who don't make and edit video. There's a double standard here.

If mining is so profitable that miners mining can afford new hardware seemingly regardless of cost, mine while you sleep. It will at least take the edge off the cost of gaming.
 

Kardonxt

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My 3060 TI FE mines at 60Mhs at 120 watts
My 3070 FE mines at 62MHs at 130 watts
My 3080 Asus Tuf OC mines at 102Mhs at 221 watts.

I was just going to post the same thing. These hash rates are awful. No miner is going to be interested in any of these unless they are at steep discounts or have good availability. It's not like nvidia has spare fab space to even make them. Producing these would mean producing less gaming cards.

I suspect Kyle is right and this is just an image thing to make gamers warm and fuzzy inside.
 
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