• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

Nvidia driver issues

Status
Not open for further replies.
E

ebolamonkey001

Weaksauce
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
106
I don't know the exact driver number when this problem started, all I know is drivers below the 190.xx series seem to be safe. All the new drivers I've tried have GOD AWFUL mouse movement. It feels like they just slapped 10-15ms additional input lag on every driver series above that.

My guess is they started buffering additional frames for something stupid like ambient occlusion or other "feature" like 3d vision or whatever. Well I'm sorry but this is not acceptable. If this isn't some kind of frame buffering problem that causes more input lag, then they must have started rendering the mouse with lower priority than normal or something. I have no idea what the cause of the problem is, all I know is that my mouse feels like total slop and far less accurate with the newer drivers.

I first noticed this problem while using a 260gtx 55nm EVGA card in Windows 7 and using newer graphics drivers after Fermi had already come out. I thought this problem was due to me using a 200 series card with newer Fermi drivers. Well that's not the case because I just built an entirely new computer with an MSI 570 gtx and the exact same problem is still there.

I'm 30 years old and have played FPS and PC games since the dawn of time. I've used just about every Razer and Logitech mouse that exists and various CRT and LCD's from 7-28ms input lag. I can easily spot any change in input lag or decreased mouse accuracy.

The driver I used to avoid these mouse problems on my 260gtx was 186.82. Now I have a 570 gtx and have no way to fix this problem. My only option is to post this on every forum on the internet until they get off their asses and fix it. It's been going on for like a year now. Before someone chimes in, yes I know you can lower your pre-render frames from 3 to 1 to give better mouse response. Well, new drivers set to 1 feel more laggy than old drivers set to 3.
 
im running the current beta drivers 265.36 and before that 260.99. ive never had this issue.
 
I don't have this issue on my GTX 580 SLI setup.
 
herfalerf said:
im running the current beta drivers 265.36 and before that 260.99. ive never had this issue.
Click to expand...

And people also buy Dell 2408wfp PVA LCD screens with 60ms input lag and type the exact same sentence you just did. "I don't see any problem". Yes, people on this forum do that by the boatload. The problem is there. I see it on two different computers with two different graphics cards.

Here are my mouse settings for g9x mouse below (I use 1080p rez). As you can see, I use low cursor movement speed with high DPI. If your cursor movement speed is faster, it is harder to notice the problem. Before you try to say I'm making stuff up, try loading up 186.82 drivers yourself and set pre-render frames to 1 (then restart). If you don't notice better mouse response, something is wrong with you or your cursor movement speed was set so fast that accuracy wasn't even possible in the first place.

Do not use SLI to test this either. It probably introduces some input lag problems of it's own. You may not notice a problem either because the drivers have been like this for like a year and you don't even remember what accurate mouse movement feels like. Try the win7 x64 186.82 drivers and see the difference (not sure if it will work on newer cards). Don't use a $1 mouse to test this either. If your DPI is set high and movement speed set low, it's ridiculously easy to notice.

67471081.jpg
 
Last edited:
Also, can we collectively as a forum chill with the sensational titles? Jesus.
 
Well if he can notice diffrence beetween 7 and 28ms input lag then maybe there really is something in what he says.

However for people who don't have problems with 32-48ms input lag on LCD this might but unnoticable (for example for me)
 
ebolamonkey001 said:
And people also buy Dell 2408wfp PVA LCD screens with 60ms input lag and type the exact same sentence you just did. "I don't see any problem". Yes, people on this forum do that by the boatload. The problem is there. I see it on two different computers with two different graphics cards. Here are my mouse settings for g9x mouse also (I use 1080p rez). As you can see, I use low cursor movement speed with high DPI. If your cursor movement speed is faster, it is harder to notice the problem. Before you try to say I'm making stuff up, try loading up 186.82 drivers yourself and set pre-render frames to 1 (then restart). If you don't notice better mouse response, something is wrong with you or your cursor movement speed was set so fast that accuracy wasn't even possible in the first place. Do not use SLI to test this either. It probably introduces some input lag problems of it's own.

67471081.jpg
Click to expand...
I've used several different GPU solutions in the last year, ranging from GTX280, to 5870, to 5870CF, to now GTX 580 SLI. On two different types of Dell monitor, on two different panel varieties (IPS and S-PVA). Never seen an issue with input lag whatsoever.
 
125hz polling rate? That's 8ms of input lag right there, compared to 2ms for 500hz and 1ms for 1000hz.
 
I don't know if this still applies today but I've read in multiple places that any mouse speed other than 5 (the middle) is not good. For lack of a better description it multiplies or divides the physical movement, and reduces accuracy. That might help. Good luck with your issue.
 
Michaelius said:
Well if he can notice diffrence beetween 7 and 28ms input lag then maybe there really is something in what he says.

However for people who don't have problems with 32-48ms input lag on LCD this might but unnoticable (for example for me)
Click to expand...

You've got to be kidding. 7ms feels almost the same as using a CRT whereas 28ms input lag is almost unbearable for even mozilla browsing. Like I said, the mouse and mouse settings you use are a huge factor in noticing stuff like this as well. When you crank the dpi high and set cursor speed low so it's capable of per-pixel accuracy, you notice really fast.

Rizen said:
I've used several different GPU solutions in the last year, ranging from GTX280, to 5870, to 5870CF, to now GTX 580 SLI. On two different types of Dell monitor, on two different panel varieties (IPS and S-PVA). Never seen an issue with input lag whatsoever.
Click to expand...

This paragraph pretty much blows this guy's credibility out of the water. If you can bear using some absurdly input laggy S-PVA monitor for even browsing the internet, you aren't going to notice any additional problem the nvidia driver might cause with the mouse because your mouse was already like dragging a stick through a barrel of sludge in the first place.

sadbuttrue said:
125hz polling rate? That's 8ms of input lag right there, compared to 2ms for 500hz and 1ms for 1000hz.
Click to expand...

I use mouse acceleration turned on if you didn't notice. You can't use higher than 125hz with mouse acceleration turned on and while using the default microsoft mouse cursor movement or the cursor goes all jittery. That is a variable that hasn't changed between drivers so don't even bring that up. This is a thread about nvidia drivers *not* mouse preference. Test the difference in 186.82 and the newer drivers if you don't believe me. Don't even bother if you can't tell the difference in a 7ms and 30ms input lag LCD though.
 
i dunno, never noticed anything and have my mouse set to 1000mhz polling rate. with 4000 DPI setting. windows mouse acceleration is disabled along with mouse acceleration in the drivers. so i don't see how the hell this has anything to do with nvidia's drivers. i've used nvidia drivers from 178.xx to 258.96 with the same monitor's, same mouse, same mouse settings and have seen absolutely no difference. so have fun with your hatred for nvidia, i can't stand them either but this is just stupid.
 
I've been using NVIDIA cards since the Riva 128 and I've NEVER had this problem with any driver version. Ever.

Disable mouse acceleration. I'm using a G9x, I've got SLI enabled with 3 Dell 3007WFP-HC's and I do not have this problem. My mouse settings are even identical to yours. Actually come to think of it, my mouse settings were the same then I saved them to the mouses hardware. I then uninstalled the crappy Setpoint garbage.
 
Have you actually tried disabling HPET as explained in the post you made here:
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=325762

I did. My DPC Latency dropped from an average of 90us to a staggeringly low 7us. Mouse input lag also massively improved.*

For the record I can spot the difference between triple buffering on and off at 120hz on a crt running 300+fps behind the scenes using a 500hz mouse and a sub 10ping. Does that qualify?
 
G500 user here and before that a MX518, MX510 with Nvidia cards since forever. No mouse issues. Hell I dont even bother to install Setpoint.

So no to you.
 
I hear all these horror stories about drivers, tbh I've never had any driver issues, I guess I'm just lucky
 
I don't know what kind of absurd responses these are. My DPC latency is 30. People keep trying to shift the blame from the drivers to me when the *only variable* that I need to change to see the problem is changing from 186.82 drivers to any newer drivers.

I'm 30 years old with a comp sci degree, I'm not some kind of PC noob and this isn't my first rodeo. I have already isolated the variable that causes the cursor to be more laggy and sloppy and that variable is the driver. No other variable change is required. Same result on two different computers with completely different hardware. I don't know if they are buffering more frames or if the cursor priority is somehow set lower, all I know is the cursor moves differently (and much worse) with the newer drivers as opposed to the older ones.

The difference I estimate, is the equivalent of adding 10-20ms additional input lag. It's noticeable on the desktop, you don't have to launch an app or video game. If you can't notice the addition of 10ms input lag, then don't post in the thread claiming "there is no problem". Some people won't notice, for others, it's a PC destroying issue.

Any 3d modeling, CAD, or Photoshop experts that are used to dragging around a vertex with per-pixel accuracy should be able to notice this immediately. If you're some 50 year old guy that loads up an FPS and comes in last place without an act of God, then please just do not post in this thread.

If you want to try a non-laggy driver to see for yourself (doesn't support fermi cards without modded inf). Here's a link for the 186.82 64bit Win 7 driver straight from microsoft (open the cab file with 7zip or winrar or something to install):

http://download.windowsupdate.com/m..._a264562952e6190367120219121f78e35815d057.cab

Or get it from guru3d:

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=303506

Or or laptopvideo2go:

http://forums.laptopvideo2go.com/topic/24989-nvidia-forceware-18682-released/
 
All I can muster up is,

W O W

I've always made fun of people with OCD, but never again, now that I know that it's a serious debilitating issue which prevents people from rational thought...

Awesome sensationalistic title by the way. What's even more awesome is his reaction to everyone's comments.
 
I made this thread knowing perfectly well that 90% of responses were going to be from Nvidia shills or internet forum troll contrarians that just want to argue if the sky is blue or not. I have tested this stuff extensively and the only variable that causes the laggy/sloppy mouse movement is the newer nvidia drivers.

Someone just edited my post title to try and make it draw less attention and make Nvidia not look as bad. From "Do NOT Buy an Nvidia card until they fix this driver issue" to "Nvidia driver problem".

This is just ridiculous. They've been releasing drivers with this laggy mouse problem for like a year. They deserve any bad press that comes with having this issue so long. The worst part is they probably did it on purpose just to gain 1fps in 3dmark for marketing purposes.

Trying to edit my post to be a shill for Nvidia on here is just going to make me post this on even more sites until it causes them enough bad press to where they are forced to fix it. I didn't just spend $350 on a card to have an expensive paper weight and people telling me that I need to stand upside down on my head while using $500 worth of Monster video cables does not fix a driver problem.
 
Last edited:
ebolamonkey001 said:
I made this thread knowing perfectly well that 90% of responses were going to be from Nvidia shills or internet forum troll contrarians that just want to argue if the sky is blue or not. I have tested this stuff extensively and the only variable that causes the laggy/sloppy mouse movement is the newer nvidia drivers.
Click to expand...

I fixed your thread title, perhaps you will get better responses with the new title.
 
then fix your shit because i've used all the driver versions you have and not 1 single driver version has even remotely created the so called problems you are using. so obviously the problem is on your end and not nvidia. that is what we are trying to tell you. i cant stand nvidia's drivers so this would be enough of a reason for me to bash them but the fact is I've never had any of these issues and nor has anyone else that has posted in this thread. so with odds like that you tend to lean toward it being the users problem and not the drivers.
 
ebolamonkey001 said:
I made this thread knowing perfectly well that 90% of responses were going to be from Nvidia shills or internet forum troll contrarians that just want to argue if the sky is blue or not. I have tested this stuff extensively and the only variable that causes the laggy/sloppy mouse movement is the newer nvidia drivers.

None of your replies have anything to do with the only variable that causes the problem (the newer drivers), so how does that help?

When I already know what the only variable that causes the problem is, I'm not going to listen to people that say the problem doesn't exist or that I should stand upside down on my head while using $500 worth of Best Buy Monster video cables.

I'm pissed about buying a brand new 570gtx and noticing this laggy mouse problem is still there after like an entire year of new drivers. I'm not here to make friends, I'm here to try and get them to fix their drivers.
Click to expand...

So what do you expect then basically what you are saying is the the drivers are broken and everybody else says they haven't seen this problem in the drivers at all. Not sure what you were expecting? Using your analogy if you said the sky was red (and if it was really red to you) what would you expect the responses to be? Because everyone else sees it as blue.

Oh if we don't buy nvidia because of their drivers and we don't buy ati because of their drivers and intel isn't good at gaming what do we buy? Via chrome ftw? (or what ever via junk is)
 
ebolamonkey001 said:
I'm 30 years old with a comp sci degree, I'm not some kind of PC noob and this isn't my first rodeo. I have already isolated the variable that causes the cursor to be more laggy and sloppy and that variable is the driver. No other variable change is required.
Click to expand...

Lost all credibility right there.
 
sirmonkey1985 said:
then fix your shit because i've used all the driver versions you have and not 1 single driver version has even remotely created the so called problems you are using.
Click to expand...

All the people who post on this forum using 60ms input lag S-PVA Samsung LCD's don't notice any problem with their PC either. Does that mean there is no input lag problem with those screens? No, it doesn't. If those people can't notice 60ms input lag, they aren't going to notice the probably 10-15ms additional input lag from these newer Nvidia drivers that I'm talking about.

If you can't notice it, then great. But don't try and argue with me saying I'm insane and it doesn't exist when I can see it easily then tell me I have an attitude when I don't agree the driver is perfect and doesn't have an input lag problem.
 
I'm just curious but when you're not working, obviously the important work you must do as a 30 year old with a comp sci degree, do you also moonlight for the Korean National Starcraft team?

Your obsession with this input lag is starting to make some sense now...
 
ebolamonkey001 said:
is just going to make me post this on even more sites until it causes them enough bad press to where they are forced to fix it
Click to expand...

And by complaining in such a civil and polite manner, how many people have you managed to convince to a) test both drivers and b) agree with you?
 
sadbuttrue said:
And by complaining in such a civil and polite manner, how many people have you managed to convince to a) test both drivers and b) agree with you?
Click to expand...

If the increased input lag with newer nvidia drivers is not a problem for you, then go do something else with your life instead of trying to argue in my thread, it's that simple. Trying to call me a liar and saying there is no problem is not being civil.
 
ebolamonkey001 said:
If the increased input lag with newer nvidia drivers is not a problem for you, then go do something else with your life instead of trying to argue in my thread, it's that simple. Trying to call me a liar and saying there is no problem is not being civil.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry you are so bothered by this "problem".
What does it actually do to/for you that makes you so angry?

I might just be on of your "idiots" who couldn't define mouse lag if it fell out of my ass sideways, but I've used not only every generation of nvidia cards since Ti 4800, but also a number of ATI/AMD cards up to the 5800 series.
I saw mouse "corruption in the early 2010 CCC, but it was fixed.
I don't perceive any lag in my mouse currently, and I dare say one can perceive a 10 millisecond difference anyway.

You might try adjusting your attitude a little and maybe people will be more open to discussion.
 
It may well be a problem. Having just made the transition (for the second time) from a Sony FW900 @ 120hz to a Samsung 2233rz @ 120hz, I am experiencing some input lag. It's very minor and was drastically improved by disabling HPET and setting render-ahead frames to 0. How much of what remains is due to my simultaneous transition from an ATI 4770 to a GTX570, I don't know.

Where did I accuse you of lying? I believe sirmonkey1985 is implying you are mistaken, but no accusation was made. The problem is your attitude to people only trying to help. Whether their help is useful or not is no reason to be so hostile.

I may actually test this theory of yours later, for my own personal benefit. Having 2 identical Windows installations on the same machine would make it quite easy to compare. Your continued insults at others and now myself leaves me wondering - why should I share any findings?
 
magoo said:
I might just be on of your "idiots" who couldn't define mouse lag if it fell out of my ass sideways, and I dare say one can perceive a 10 millisecond difference anyway.
Click to expand...

Which is why it's so annoying when an avalanche of people like that continuously post in the thread saying there is no problem. It makes me feel like I'm the guy in the movie Idiocracy and I'm trying to fix my front lawn and all these people are running up watering it with gatorade. I'm just like, OMG, they're coming in too fast to kill them all.
 
While input lag isn't something that bothers me personally, I can see how it would bother some people, and honestly, if it's an issue, who am I to tell you that it isn't? What does surprise me though is that there are monitors out there you can buy without the input lag that LCDs normally have. The 3007WFP excluding as it has no scaler, is there anything else with no input lag?
 
You know I don't and never have experienced this issue but that doesn't mean its not happening to you. That said, your attitude is fucking ridiculous. Your condescending and arrogant and you expect people to react in a positive way to help you? Get over yourself. Your issue Is getting over shadowed by your antics.

There's an old saying that applies to this situation. With sugar you get honey, with vinegar you get salt. Think about it.
 
Savoy said:
You know I don't and never have experienced this issue but that doesn't mean its not happening to you. That said, your attitude is fucking ridiculous.
Click to expand...

There is no attitude, there is only people coming in this thread that don't even know what the word "INPUT LAG" even means then telling me there is no problem with the driver inadvertently calling me a liar, like I'm just making this up out of thin air. How do you expect me to react?

The drivers have been like this for like a year too.
 
ebolamonkey001 said:
There is no attitude, there is only people coming in this thread that don't even know what the word "INPUT LAG" even means then telling me there is no problem with the driver inadvertently calling me a liar, like I'm just making this up out of thin air. How do you expect me to react?

The drivers have been like this for like a year too.
Click to expand...

I expect you to act like a rational adult and understand that this is NOT a common theme or problem on this forum or around the net at other hardware forums. I expect you to realize that since this ISN'T a commonly talked about issue that you would understand some people's reaction. I would also expect you to have some tact and not act as if you are the end all be all authority on input lag and nvidia's terrible terrible drivers. maybe I'm (we) are expecting too much? Don't act like an immature douche? k?

Once again I'm not saying this issue doesn't exist nor am I saying that YOU aren't having this issue. All I'm saying is drop the tude, period. That being said I and most other forum regualrs know exactly what input lag is and in all of it's ugly forms and I don't have this issue with nvidia's drivers ever. I have seen input lag over the years for various reasons, driver's not being one of them.

GL with your issue and maybe we will get some other's in this thread to chime in and share some insight. Also you may want to post this issue ( in a polite and professional way) over at the nvidia forums and ask for Manuel G to get the driver team's input. That's probably your best option at this point imo.
 
ebolamonkey001 said:
This paragraph pretty much blows this guy's credibility out of the water. If you can bear using some absurdly input laggy S-PVA monitor for even browsing the internet, you aren't going to notice any additional problem the nvidia driver might cause with the mouse because your mouse was already like dragging a stick through a barrel of sludge in the first place.
Click to expand...
No offense but I've been here for over 10 years and I have over 4,000 posts on these forums. Who the fuck are you to call out anyone's credibility?

Secondly, I'm sitting in a room with around $5,000 worth of PC hardware, video cards, monitors, etc. I am pretty sure if this was such a blatant and obvious problem, I would have seen it by now - or at least someone here on these forums besides you would have. I even let my friends borrow my 2408 for a while a few months ago, since I'm not actively using it, and never once have I heard any complaints about severe input lag with the monitor. Either way, I've been using 2410s for a while now which are not S-PVA panels.

Either you have extremely sensitive eyes or there is another variable you are missing, or you are just full of shit. I have sensitive eyes and I don't have any problems at all with my NVIDIA cards.
 
So noticing the OP was banned at the Guru3d forums that pretty much sums up his credibility. How can you be a 30 year old computer science degree holding adult and act like such a 13 year old know it all who seems to lack the ability to accept outside opinions.

Get a grip OP , whatever you seem to be experiencing is more one sided then you might be willing to admit.
 
Godmachine said:
So noticing the OP was banned at the Guru3d forums that pretty much sums up his credibility. How can you be a 30 year old computer science degree holding adult and act like such a 13 year old know it all who seems to lack the ability to accept outside opinions.

Get a grip OP , whatever you seem to be experiencing is more one sided then you might be willing to admit.
Click to expand...

Interesting to hear that he's banned at guru. Wonder how long till that happens here.
 
Savoy said:
Interesting to hear that he's banned at guru. Wonder how long till that happens here.
Click to expand...

I read the thread and it looks like he was probably temp-banned and then perma-banned.
I browsed around and learned about HPET and how disabling this could have helped him out.

Oh well, I guess I wouldn't be able to tell the difference on my super-laggy-shitty-refurbed ZR24w :p
 
This thread has run its course....I don't see anything good coming from keeping it open
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top