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Nvidia adopts Adaptive-Sync (FreeSync)

Hmm, it's possible it's a good strategy. They can be like "Yeah AMD we have that too" but for the Premium experience we can do G-Sync.

That would kind of make people curious about G-Sync if you think about it.
 
It was adopted by vesa into the displayport spec. If nvidia hadn't agree to support it then they wouldn't have full displayport support. Kinda hard to sell a video card if it isn't full compatible with a monitor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort#1.2a

Edit: Looks like it's an optional spec. Either way it makes a lot of sense to fully support the spec.
 
Nvidia tried to imply freesync had latency issues, but it was proven otherwise.

No difference really.
 
Basically, AMD made a free version of something Nvidia no-doubt spent millions of dollars developing, and were hoping to make a huge profit on.

Smart move by AMD.
 
Fahrenheit said:
Ah the way nVidia was acting I thought G sync did something better or something.
Click to expand...

Will be nice to see some Adaptive Sync monitors.... eventually. Until then all we have is the hand full of G-Sync screens. It's technically worse than Adaptive but it'll do ;)
 
KazeoHin said:
Basically, AMD made a free version of something Nvidia no-doubt spent millions of dollars developing, and were hoping to make a huge profit on.

Smart move by AMD.
Click to expand...

Lets hope the prayers of widespread adoption of Mantle, HSA, and having manufacturers cover the costs of this optional feature will be true.

Still a bummer you leave a portion of your fans behind because certain rebrands were not designed for the new technology, while Nvidia doesn't seem to have that issue at all. Hell even DSR may be given to some 700 series cards and GSYNC is supported from the 650ti (boost?) and higher. Nvidia may have spent millions on this and AMD is trying to get manufacturers to essentially pay for it (which will no doubt make us end up paying more) themselves, but there will be a cost addition just like with GSYNC, because it's an optional feature and this is 2014. Since when do we not get charged extra for something optional? People may think AMD is a charity but I doubt Acer, Phillips, Asus, Dell, Samsung, or any other monitor manufacturers would think they are.

Someone has to pay in the end, it's usually the consumer in cases like this. Unless we consider Realtek, Novatek and MStar as charity groups.
 
Shogon said:
Lets hope the prayers of widespread adoption of Mantle, HSA, and having manufacturers cover the costs of this optional feature will be true.

Still a bummer you leave a portion of your fans behind because certain rebrands were not designed for the new technology, while Nvidia doesn't seem to have that issue at all. Hell even DSR may be given to some 700 series cards and GSYNC is supported from the 650ti (boost?) and higher. Nvidia may have spent millions on this and AMD is trying to get manufacturers to essentially pay for it (which will no doubt make us end up paying more) themselves, but there will be a cost addition just like with GSYNC, because it's an optional feature and this is 2014. Since when do we not get charged extra for something optional? People may think AMD is a charity but I doubt Acer, Phillips, Asus, Dell, Samsung, or any other monitor manufacturers would think they are.

Someone has to pay in the end, it's usually the consumer in cases like this. Unless we consider Realtek, Novatek and MStar as charity groups.
Click to expand...

+1

If anyone thinks FreeSync is actually a freebie you're an... a very wrong person. :D
 
Isn`t the freesync hardware much cheaper than what goes into G-sync? I`m sure we get new-fangled "gamer edition" monitors that cost 50-100 bucks more first (with circuits costing few dollars for the maker). But at least competition is fairly aggressive there so prices should go down fairly fast. Maybe...
 
The claim that Adaptive-Sync does not cause any extra cost is a straw man argument. The additional cost per monitor was given by AMD as $10-20.

How much of a premium the end user will pay is not clear yet. It is however an open and royalty-free standard which anyone can implement, which will help keep prices down thanks to the ensuing competition.
 
If I remember right FreeSync monitors require a more robust scalar technology. Some monitor manufacturers already have scalars in their current monitors that can handle it. Those would require a firmware flash to become FreeSync compatible. But the chances of a monitor manufacturer doing this is zero. So expect to buy a new monitor if you want FreeSync.

That's what I remember reading. Might be wrong though. ;)
 
chithanh said:
The claim that Adaptive-Sync does not cause any extra cost is a straw man argument. The additional cost per monitor was given by AMD as $10-20.

How much of a premium the end user will pay is not clear yet. It is however an open and royalty-free standard which anyone can implement, which will help keep prices down thanks to the ensuing competition.
Click to expand...

While the additional cost per monitor given by NV is £150-£180
 
What happened to freesync only requires firmware updates and the technology already existed in eDP? Bring it in to the DP1.2a specification just require firmware update so to speak. This is what I heard earlier.

But now, the stories changed entirely. AMD announces major scaler OEM pledge support. This indicate that it does require hardware. Not just firmware updates. So wheater it is DP1.2 or DP1.2a it doesn matter anymore since the scaler asic has been changed entirely. This is what nvidia claim that AMDs are not able to do variable refresh rate with DP1.2a alone. They need to change the scaler. If this happen, the entire LCD industry will change.

BUT, recent announcement of DP1.3 does not mention about adaptive sync at all. So are we looking at DP1.2a being a niche premium segment?

As far as what is what (freesync + gsync) for now both are doing the same thing. BUT if AMD didn't announce about the need to change the scaler, i doubt it will be the same like g-sync.

AMD did the right thing to bring this into VESA, (weird enough it does not make it into DP1.3), Nvidia did the right thing by waking up the LCD industries to solve this long standing issue ever since LCD was existed. Their mistake is not approaching VESA, but knowing nvidia, they always like it to be propriety.
 
The Mac said:
Nvidia tried to imply freesync had latency issues, but it was proven otherwise.

No difference really.
Click to expand...

Tom Peterson from nvidia on PCPER Q&A session implied that AMD will not be able to achieve what nvidia g-sync able to achieve IF there is no change in the scaler. So it will be different. eDP does it differently than what G-sync does. If it does, then the entire industry have to change the scaler, which the recent announcement about OEM scaler maker pledge support to AMD.
 
ruffstuff said:
What happened to freesync only requires firmware updates and the technology already existed in eDP? Bring it in to the DP1.2a specification just require firmware update so to speak. This is what I heard earlier.

But now, the stories changed entirely. AMD announces major scaler OEM pledge support. This indicate that it does require hardware. Not just firmware updates. So wheater it is DP1.2 or DP1.2a it doesn matter anymore since the scaler asic has been changed entirely. This is what nvidia claim that AMDs are not able to do variable refresh rate with DP1.2a alone. They need to change the scaler. If this happen, the entire LCD industry will change.

BUT, recent announcement of DP1.3 does not mention about adaptive sync at all. So are we looking at DP1.2a being a niche premium segment?

As far as what is what (freesync + gsync) for now both are doing the same thing. BUT if AMD didn't announce about the need to change the scaler, i doubt it will be the same like g-sync.

AMD did the right thing to bring this into VESA, (weird enough it does not make it into DP1.3), Nvidia did the right thing by waking up the LCD industries to solve this long standing issue ever since LCD was existed. Their mistake is not approaching VESA, but knowing nvidia, they always like it to be propriety.
Click to expand...

So you don't understand what was actually stated by AMD and decide to make up your own rhetoric?

AMD never stated that it only requires a firmware update. Back when they first started discussing Adaptive-Sync and FreeSync, they talked about where the idea/technology came from. They explained that much of the hardware was already in some of their products and that the technology was already in some monitors/scalers.
They demonstrated that by using publicly available laptops to run the demo and then later used a publicly available monitor.

They mentioned that it is up to the manufacturer on how they implement the technology but that some of the monitors that were currently available have the necessary hardware could support it with a firmware update.

DP1.3 would be backwards compatible with previous specifications, 1.2a would be supported.
 
LordEC911 said:
So you don't understand what was actually stated by AMD and decide to make up your own rhetoric?

AMD never stated that it only requires a firmware update. Back when they first started discussing Adaptive-Sync and FreeSync, they talked about where the idea/technology came from. They explained that much of the hardware was already in some of their products and that the technology was already in some monitors/scalers.
They demonstrated that by using publicly available laptops to run the demo and then later used a publicly available monitor.

They mentioned that it is up to the manufacturer on how they implement the technology but that some of the monitors that were currently available have the necessary hardware could support it with a firmware update.

DP1.3 would be backwards compatible with previous specifications, 1.2a would be supported.
Click to expand...




There are several publication saying that. So either they misunderstood AMD, or AMD did not provide enough information on early demos.
One of it, http://www.gamersnexus.net/news-pc/1494-amd-freesync-hardware-update-not-necessary

I've knew that eDP > DP1.2a alone is not capable of doing what G-SYNC currently doing, not without the change of scaler. Tom Peterson has already said this. And he also stress that IF AMD freesync require new scaler, then Nvidia have to change its strategy. Which is why they pledge support to freesync now.

And may i have the source saying that DP1.3 would be backward compatible with 1.2a? And specifically have adaptive sync on it?

From here:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8533/...rt-13-standard-50-more-bandwidth-new-features

It looks like adaptive-sync is remain optional. So it is not entirely a FORCE standard. So we may see another DP1.3a just for adaptive sync monitor.
 
Last edited:
PRIME1 said:
Can you link to a review where it was proven otherwise?
Click to expand...

Can you resist trolling? You know it hasn't been released yet. :rolleyes:

nVidia is going to support it. Sorry if that upsets all of your past arguments about it sucking.
 
LordEC911 said:
So you don't understand what was actually stated by AMD and decide to make up your own rhetoric?

AMD never stated that it only requires a firmware update. Back when they first started discussing Adaptive-Sync and FreeSync, they talked about where the idea/technology came from. They explained that much of the hardware was already in some of their products and that the technology was already in some monitors/scalers.
They demonstrated that by using publicly available laptops to run the demo and then later used a publicly available monitor.

They mentioned that it is up to the manufacturer on how they implement the technology but that some of the monitors that were currently available have the necessary hardware could support it with a firmware update.

DP1.3 would be backwards compatible with previous specifications, 1.2a would be supported.
Click to expand...

+1 to your post as that's what I watched Richard Huddy say time and time again. Now with that said, I wonder if FreeSync will be eventually be in every monitor created in a few years? I could see office workers benefiting from the technology.
 
cageymaru said:
+1 to your post as that's what I watched Richard Huddy say time and time again. Now with that said, I wonder if FreeSync will be eventually be in every monitor created in a few years? I could see office workers benefiting from the technology.
Click to expand...

Not if VESA have separate spec. DP1.3a just like DP1.2a. Refer to the anandtech articles about VESA DP1.3. It looks like adaptive sync is an optional extension spec.
 
ruffstuff said:
I've knew that eDP > DP1.2a alone is not capable of doing what G-SYNC currently doing, not without the change of scaler. Tom Peterson has already said this. And he also stress that IF AMD freesync require new scaler, then Nvidia have to change its strategy. Which is why they pledge support to freesync now.

And may i have the source saying that DP1.3 would be backward compatible with 1.2a? And specifically have adaptive sync on it?

From here:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8533/...rt-13-standard-50-more-bandwidth-new-features

It looks like adaptive-sync is remain optional. So it is not entirely a FORCE standard. So we may see another DP1.3a just for adaptive sync monitor.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is...

Sorry, I shouldn't have said it will be backwards compatible (physically) because I don't know about that but I would assume it would be.

What I meant to say is that previous features found on older specs will be supported.
This includes Adaptive Sync.
http://www.vesa.org/displayport-developer/faq/#DisplayPort 1.3 FAQ
 
LordEC911 said:
Yes, it is...

Sorry, I shouldn't have said it will be backwards compatible (physically) because I don't know about that but I would assume it would be.

What I meant to say is that previous features found on older specs will be supported.
This includes Adaptive Sync.
http://www.vesa.org/displayport-developer/faq/#DisplayPort 1.3 FAQ
Click to expand...

Thanks for bringing the DP1.3 faq. I was about to look out for VESA own words. So it does and it's good. This will only make ALL LCD manufacturer to change their scaler. No longer optional like like DP1.2a.

I think anand DP1.3 articles was misinformed on the adaptive sync part
 
Is G-SYNC/FreeSync supported by HDMI 2.0?

Not really interested in switching over to a TV for ants to get this tech.

My next display puchase will be a 4K TV with HDMI 2.0 inputs that accepts 4K @ 60 Hz, 1080p @ 120 Hz, supports 3D and G-SYNC or FreeSync.

Make it happen, display manufacturers.
 
So far only display port will support G-Sync or Free Sync. Display Port has much better than HDMI (faster at adopting new standards and more future proof, still has higher bandwidth), and you can find large monitors and TV that use it.
 
Xizer said:
Is G-SYNC/FreeSync supported by HDMI 2.0?

Not really interested in switching over to a TV for ants to get this tech.

My next display puchase will be a 4K TV with HDMI 2.0 inputs that accepts 4K @ 60 Hz, 1080p @ 120 Hz, supports 3D and G-SYNC or FreeSync.

Make it happen, display manufacturers.
Click to expand...

HDMI is not on VESA. HDMI is under HDMI founders. But i would love to see that happened. Films run at 24 and some on 48fps *cough peter jackson.

And consoles are locked at 30 or 60. So frame interpolation happens on the scaler since tv refresh rate are between 60/100/120/144. So there's always imperfect presentation of your frames and there is always odd frame (duplicate frames) to match the refresh rate.

So LCD tvs need to wake up to fix this long standing issue. Nvidia has make the LCD computer industries woke up. So, someone from the CE business need to do the same, even if it choose to be proprietary.
 
ruffstuff said:
HDMI is not on VESA. HDMI is under HDMI founders. But i would love to see that happened. Films run at 24 and some on 48fps *cough peter jackson.

And consoles are locked at 30 or 60. So frame interpolation happens on the scaler since tv refresh rate are between 60/100/120/144. So there's always imperfect presentation of your frames and there is always odd frame (duplicate frames) to match the refresh rate.

So LCD tvs need to wake up to fix this long standing issue. Nvidia has make the LCD computer industries woke up. So, someone from the CE business need to do the same, even if it choose to be proprietary.
Click to expand...

A 120 or 240 Hz TV would evenly display 24 fps content, over more duplicate frames. Other refresh rates require 3:2 pulldown. Issue fixed.
 
3:2 isn't a great solution, it works, but there can be artifacts and it can be noticeable. I'd rather all displays use a form of Free Sync or G-Sync, console games could benefit from it as well.
 
Ozymandias said:
A 120 or 240 Hz TV would evenly display 24 fps content, over more duplicate frames. Other refresh rates require 3:2 pulldown. Issue fixed.
Click to expand...

what about consoles at 30/60p? What about ntsc digital broadcast at 30p?3:2 pulldown is not solution,it's workaround.
 
PcZac said:
So far only display port will support G-Sync or Free Sync. Display Port has much better than HDMI (faster at adopting new standards and more future proof, still has higher bandwidth), and you can find large monitors and TV that use it.
Click to expand...

Well, obviously.

Tell that to the TV manufacturers.

DisplayPort is incredibly rare on a proper sized screen. I've never seen it on a 1080p TV. I believe Panasonic had one 4K TV model that had it.

I'd love to see DisplayPort on 4K TVs but unfortunately it looks like we're going to be stuck with that horrible HDMI standard only again.
 
Relayer said:
Can you resist trolling? You know it hasn't been released yet. :rolleyes:

nVidia is going to support it. Sorry if that upsets all of your past arguments about it sucking.
Click to expand...

K, but he said:

The Mac said:
Nvidia tried to imply freesync had latency issues, but it was proven otherwise.

No difference really.
Click to expand...

So if it has been proven to do something - anything at this point really because nobody has seen it that we know of - I would love to have some solid info on it as well. The quote above implies that someone has a working freesync/async/whatever it is display and could thus disprove the statement by Nvidia... right? Not sure how wanting some confirmation here is trolling.
 
I'm eager to know what, if any, technical differences there are between GS and FS. A lot of people seem to be convinced that these are identical technologies. It's too bad some review sites can't get some free cards and monitors to test FS.
 
LigTasm said:
So if it has been proven to do something - anything at this point really because nobody has seen it that we know of - I would love to have some solid info on it as well.
Click to expand...
I'm interested as well, but I would not hold my breath for that particular poster to back up his assertions.
 
LigTasm said:
K, but he said:



So if it has been proven to do something - anything at this point really because nobody has seen it that we know of - I would love to have some solid info on it as well. The quote above implies that someone has a working freesync/async/whatever it is display and could thus disprove the statement by Nvidia... right? Not sure how wanting some confirmation here is trolling.
Click to expand...

That was directed @ Prime1. His position is a given.

First, I don't even remember nVidia making a statement that FreeSync would induce latency (AMD has claimed that Gsync does, but has never shown it). Maybe it was an internal memo? I don't know. 2nd, Considering how FreeSync works, there isn't any way for it to introduce latency. When the card has a frame ready it tells the monitor to refresh the screen. This happens during the vblank interval which has a duration of ~0.74ms.
 
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