$250 is my limit. You just have to wait it out dude. Have patience. They get all the spend thrifts first then lower prices later. Like when GTX 570 was $349 then you could buy them $260AR later on.
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nVidia 670 benchmarks leaked
- Thread starter cantonknees
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$250 is my limit. You just have to wait it out dude. Have patience. They get all the spend thrifts first then lower prices later. Like when GTX 570 was $349 then you could buy them $260AR later on.
DejaWiz
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If this level of performance turns out to be true, then the 670 will likely be my next GPU come Christmas time this year. It will be the first time since the 8800GT days that I haven't skipped a GPU generation.
TNT2
GeForce 2 64MB (Pro, I think)
Geforce 4ti 4200
FX 5700 Ultra
6600GT (SLI)
8800GT
GTX 275
GTX 570
(my next GPU here)
TNT2
GeForce 2 64MB (Pro, I think)
Geforce 4ti 4200
FX 5700 Ultra
6600GT (SLI)
8800GT
GTX 275
GTX 570
(my next GPU here)
There are lots of people who tend to overlook the mistakes of Nvidia given its the stronger brand and more aggressive when it comes to marketing its product. The GTX 680 is a very good example of the marketing muscle of Nvidia at work. They binned the GTX 680 aggressively to win against ref HD 7970. Not to forget most websites didn't even bother to pit HD 7970 OC vs GTX 680 OC given the fact that 1 Ghz editions like XFX HD 7970 DD black edition were available from day 1 and those clocked 1150 Mhz easily at stock voltage. Instead the GTX 680 was hailed as a superior card. After 6 weeks from launch not a single website has hauled up Nvidia for its inability to provide enough supply.
AMD on the other hand had launched HD 7970, HD 7950, HD 7770, HD 7750 in the first 6 weeks from Jan 9. The situation is is going to get worse when you look at AMD readying HD 7970 Ghz edition cards at 1050 Mhz (with 1250 Mhz on stock voltage). Nvidia 's GTX 680 is more a testament to Nvidia's marketing than its engineering.
GoldenTiger
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There are lots of people who tend to overlook the mistakes of Nvidia given its the stronger brand and more aggressive when it comes to marketing its product. The GTX 680 is a very good example of the marketing muscle of Nvidia at work. They binned the GTX 680 aggressively to win against ref HD 7970. Not to forget most websites didn't even bother to pit HD 7970 OC vs GTX 680 OC given the fact that 1 Ghz editions like XFX HD 7970 DD black edition were available from day 1 and those clocked 1150 Mhz easily at stock voltage. Instead the GTX 680 was hailed as a superior card. After 6 weeks from launch not a single website has hauled up Nvidia for its inability to provide enough supply.
AMD on the other hand had launched HD 7970, HD 7950, HD 7770, HD 7750 in the first 6 weeks from Jan 9. The situation is is going to get worse when you look at AMD readying HD 7970 Ghz edition cards at 1050 Mhz (with 1250 Mhz on stock voltage). Nvidia 's GTX 680 is more a testament to Nvidia's marketing than its engineering.
The GTX 680 was hailed and still is hailed as, a superior card because it is. Your facts are completely off, from OC ability, to launch-day clocks available, to supposed "aggressive binning", to OC'ing not actually being guaranteed, to average OC on the 7970, to the horrifically low supply levels of the 7970 at launch and for months after compared to the gtx 680 which has had many more cards in channel & selling quickly, etc.
Looking through your list seems like you will be getting worst speed bump ever buying a 670 off a 570. Although 4200 to 5700 may be close to as bad? I dunno my first video card was 6800gt so I don't go back quite that far but I hear you could make a 4200 quite a card.
Anyway I bet you're only getting 30% max boost for a lot more money. That's not a solid value IMO.
This whole new architecture from both companies does not offer much of a boost. I like to see over 50% improvement.
wonderfield
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I really don't believe marketing has anything to do with it. You'll find that most users here have gone back and forth between AMD and NVIDIA over the years. Those who, at the end of the day, choose NVIDIA, (usually) do so for good reasons not because marketing strongly influences their opinions.
Personally, the overall lackluster ownership experience of AMD's products leaves a lot to be desired, which is why I tend to gravitate toward NVIDIA.
Some of it is a what u know. I stick with brands I like and I bet other ppl do to. I've always bought nvidia
I think AMD having less market share has to do it on price to get converts which they utterly failed at this generation.
I would have bought 7870 @ $250 or 7950 @ $300 but will stick with nvidia for now due to rape pricing they offered.
Where are you getting your facts that the GTX 680 had many more cards in the channel ? From thin air I guess
I am not vouching for accuracy of semiaccurate. But there is enough talk of Nvidia Kepler GK104 being in short supply. http://semiaccurate.com/2012/05/01/why-cant-nvidia-supply-keplergk104gtx680/
As far as my statements, let me state my sources
HD 7970 1 Ghz launch day card . Review date Jan 9th 2012.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5314/...-double-dissipation-the-first-semicustom-7970
XFX AMD HD 7970 1Ghz Black edition stock voltage OC to 1125 Mhz in AMD CCC
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5314/...ouble-dissipation-the-first-semicustom-7970/6
HD 7970 1150 -1200 at stock voltage , 1250 - 1300 Mhz at maximum voltage with MSI Afterburner
http://hardocp.com/article/2012/02/08/gigabyte_radeon_hd_7970_oc_video_card_review/3
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/04/10/sapphire_hd_7970_oc_edition_video_card_review/3
And if you want stock speed assurance you can get a MSI HD 7970 Lightning (1070 Mhz), Powercolor HD 7970 Vortex II PCS (1100 Mhz).
And you mean to say HD 7970 availability was poor 6 weeks after its release like GTX 680 . Do you have any solid proof of that.Don't just talk whatever comes to your mind.
GoldenTiger
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Where are you getting your facts that the GTX 680 had many more cards in the channel ? From thin air I guess
And you mean to say HD 7970 availability was poor 6 weeks after its release like GTX 680 . Do you have any solid proof of that.Don't just talk whatever comes to your mind.
Actually, yes I do have proof... go search forums, or refer to articles on anand/hardware canucks talking about how stock only "recently" stabilized as late early April/tail-end of March.
http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=7970+stock+hardware+canucks
Look at the one titled "HD7970 price cuts? Don't count on it", third result for me.
Additionally, posts by reviewers such as these support my point:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...-680-Reviews&p=5088429&viewfull=1#post5088429
So, post back once you know what's actually happening instead of your rampant speculation.
DejaWiz
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I'll agree going from the 4200 to the 5700 was a joke, and I regret it to this day. Wish I could have that $400 back!
I am basing this off the fact that when I crank up the in-game settings on my 570, it'll start to noticably drag down a bit, so if these leaked reviews are true, then the 670 will provide much more performance with the same settings.
Dunno, it'll remain to be seen when it's officially launched. The probability is high that I may skip this 6xx series and wait for 7xx.
In fact the latest drivers have butchered GTX 680 performance and it lies pathetically behind HD 7970 in Shogun 2
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/radeon-hd-7970-crossfirex_8.html#sect0
nVidia Forceware 301.24
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/geforce-gtx-690_8.html#sect0
nVidia Forceware 301.33
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5805/...eview-ultra-expensive-ultra-rare-ultra-fast/8
nVidia Forceware 301.33
So much for flawless Nvidia drivers
Source: hardwarecanucks
What proof does SKYMTL have for his statements. Can he back his statements with material evidence. Does he know how many HD 7970s AMD shipped till date. Do you have any numbers on HD 7970 sales for that matter after GTX 680 release. You call me on speculating when you trusting somebody's word is the same.
DaNotoriousDOM
Gawd
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Oh don't worry. There are times my stuff is in shipping soon stage for a week. They just don't want you to cancel it.
Really, show me benches of a 680 thoroughly beating a 7970, cause I haven't seen them on HardOCP or any reputable site. Kyle's statement was in reference to multiGPU configurations and SLI has always had the edge in this area.
You bought a FX 5700 Ultra? Oh my...
"Modern games, yes your little overpriced 7970 get thoroughly beaten. "
What you are saying is utter rubbish. The HD 7970 is more than competitive in the most demanding games. Games which easily hit 60+ fps at 2560 x 1600 maxed out are less important than games which struggle to hit that mark. Other than multiplayer gaming where 60+ fps is necessary for quick combat response the games which really stress the GPU are the best indicators of GPU performance..
Lets take the most demanding titles released in the last 12 months.
BF3, Alan Wake, Crysis 2 (DX11 ultra with high res textures) ,Anno 2070, Witcher 2, Shogun 2 Total War. I don't consider Batman Arkham city a good example of a DX11 game.Don't get me wrong. its a wonderful game which I have played in DX9. But it is a good example of how not to deliver a DX11 PC game. The DX11 features implementation was an afterthought and a crude patch.
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/12/13/batman_arkham_city_directx_11_performance_iq_review/5
Read the tesselation and Bottom line sections. In fact Deus Ex's use of tesselation was appreciated and Batman's use of tesselation was criticized.
BF3 is the best example of a game designed from the ground up with DX11 features to deliver the best experience. Alan Wake is a very good example of a console game's PC port done right.
BF3 DX 11
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/04/10/sapphire_hd_7970_oc_edition_video_card_review/7
BF3 2560 X 1600 ULTRA 4X MSAA
HD 7970 (950 Mhz) avg 40.0 fps min 27 fps
GTX 680 (1100 Mhz Turbo) avg 42.9 fps min 25 fps
A HD 7970 at 1050 - 1100 Mhz on stock voltage will get you GTX 680 perf.
HD 7970 OC ( (1280 Mhz) avg 50.7 fps min 34 fps.
the HD 7970 scales at 94% (40 x 1280 / 950 x 0.94 = 50.66). GTX 680 OC will just reach HD 7970 OC perf at 1.35 Ghz with 95% scaling (42.9 x 1.35 / 1.1 x 0.95= 50.7) . Speeds above 1.35 Ghz are rare even on specially binned 680 OC models.
Alan Wake DX 9
http://translate.googleusercontent....e.html&usg=ALkJrhjtNGcZfn4ldRNpISAJKIuG2lZ6YA
Alan Wake at 1080p max settings is 30% faster on HD 7970 (925 Mhz).
Crysis 2 DX 11
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/nvidia-geforce-gtx-680_13.html#sect1
HD 7970 (925 Mhz) is 9% faster than GTX 680. HD 7970 (1150 Mhz) is 20% faster than GTX 680 (1186 / 1277 boost)
Anno 2070 DX 11
http://translate.googleusercontent....0.html&usg=ALkJrhhlkIcMPq5Kj-lxwZS99YZd_N7KTA
At 1080p max settings HD 7970 (925 Mhz) is 6% faster and at 2560 x 1600 very high settings its a tie.
Witcher 2 DX 9
http://www./forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/52616-nvidia-geforce-gtx-680-2gb-review-21.html
HD 7970 (925 Mhz is faster than GTX 680 (1100 Turbo) by 5% at 2560 x 1600, Ultra , AA Enabled.
Total War Shogun 2 DX11
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/nvidia-geforce-gtx-680_13.html#sect0
GTX 680 is 14% faster over HD 7970 (925 Mhz) . GTX 680 (1186 / 1277 boost) is 5% faster over HD 7970 (1150 Mhz)
Of the above 6 games the HD 7970 OC will tie the GTX 680 OC in BF3 and clearly win (by > 10% ) Alan Wake, Crysis 2, Anno 2070, Witcher 2. The GTX 680 OC wins Shogun 2
http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-680-review/18
As far as Metro 2033 (DOF with AAA) is concerned it is a clear indication of GTX 680 performance when bandwidth is constrained. The GTX 680's performance scaling is <20% wrt GTX 580. To top it all this is a game which the GTX 580 was clearly leading over the HD 6970 by 17%.
http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-7970-overclock-guide/15
The fact becomes even more clear when the HD 7970 at 1125 Mhz is 66% faster than HD 6970 and 25% faster than GTX 680. In fact the performance jump from Fermi to Kepler is much lesser than Cayman to Tahiti.
The HD 7970 is a beast of a card. At 1250+ Mhz it can play the most demanding games like BF3, Crysis 2, Alan Wake, Witcher 2 at 2560 X 1600 maxed out. The HD 7970's power draw disadvantage is negated by the fact that the HD 7970 will provide maximum performance without being bandwidth constrained like GTX 680 in games like Metro 2033.
AMD's problems arise with multi GPU performance especially Tri fire. Nvidia's use of frame metering seems to provide good solution to micro stuttering. This is an area where Nvidia leads AMD. AMD need to improve the robustness of Crossfire.
But as a single GPU its formidable. So please stop posting lies
Pretty convincing. I have no dog in this fight. Just hope 470 pushes 7950 way down in price so I can buy one and overclock it with a waterblock.
http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/News/299279,amd-gives-the-7970-a-boost.aspx
http://www.techpowerup.com/165559/AMD-Readies-Radeon-HD-7970-GHz-Edition.html
AMD is not going to cut prices. Once AMD gets HD 7970 Ghz edition at 1050 Mhz stock clocks AMD will push for HD 7950 at 900 Mhz. Its the natural progression of things. You will not see AMD pushing out HD 7950s at 800 Mhz. The HD 7950 at 900 Mhz will compete with GTX 670 and there will be custom HD 7950 OC editions at 1 Ghz clocks to take on GTX 670 OC.
If you are waiting for HD 7950 prices to hit USD 299 you are going to have to wait till HD 7900 series goes EOL which is Q4 2012. The best you can do is wait till Nvidia launches GTX 670 and see how things pan out.Prices might fall on older HD 7950 ref cards at 800 Mhz and you can pick them up when AMD partners clear their stock to make way for the newer HD 7950s. This is how I see things panning out
HD 7970 Ghz Edition OC (1200 Mhz) vs GTX 680 OC at USD 529 - 549
HD 7970 Ghz Edition vs GTX 680 at USD 499
HD 7950 (950 - 1000 Mhz) vs GTX 670 OC at USD 429 - 449
HD 7950 (900 Mhz ) vs GTX 670 at USD 399
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DejaWiz
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They're coming. It has for some time always been the norm for the flagship cards to arrive first and then the lower tier parts to follow quite a bit later.
anubis44
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What utter bullshit. I haven't seen a SINGLE GTX680 card in person. Not ONE. When I ask about ordering one, I'm told there are about 75 backorders ahead of me, and that it could be weeks to get one. Yet at these same local computer stores, I can find several 7970s of different brands: Sapphire, Gigabyte, XFX, MSI. Just don't even try to pull that crap. The GTX680 may be giving everybody a hardon because it automagically overclocks itself, but big f'ing deal. The 7970s pretty well all overclock to 1150-1200MHz without even a voltage bump, and at that speed, they pretty well beat the GTX680 in every game.
Enough with the pro-nvidia propaganda already. The frigging card's been de-balled of double precission floating point circuitry to reduce it's die size and heat dissapation, and everyone's ooing and awwing at the lower power consumption. Know what? If I ripped all the seats out of my car, and tore all the doors off, it would weigh less, too. I hardly think that's grounds for the nobel peace price for Jen-Hsun Huang. It's not alien technology, it's called cheaping out. The card is pared down and neutered compared to the 7000-series, with an auto-overclocking feature. Big deal. In a way, it's a smart strategy, but it's not innovative. Repeat, not innovative, just simple paring down.
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Yea, I'll agree that the GTX 680 is a better card in every area over the 7970, but the stock thing is simply not true.
It may have a high demand but its very obvious Nvidia can not keep the card in stock. Nor can they release any other product for that matter. AMD is winning this round and they don't even have the better product. Talk about a complete 180.
Do not expect AMD to price its products like the HD 6000 series. Nvidia's GTX 580 was a far more powerful card compared to HD 6970 - brute performance, good perf scaling with OCs and excellent OCing with few editions at 900 Mhz. It won across the board against HD 6970 at stock and increased the performance gap when both cards were OC'd. In fact HD 6970 could only compete with GTX 570. There too in popular DX11 games like BF3, Crysis 2 the GTX 570 beat the HD 6970.
Nvidia's GK104 is not a beast like GF110. Its just that AMD's goals for Tahiti (compute and gaming) and Nvidia's goals for GK104(gaming) combined to create a very close performance battle for gaming scenarios.In fact Nvidia's competitive situation has weakened wrt Fermi. In fact the HD 7970 is the faster card,winning more than losing, when you go for max clocks with voltage OC.
Fine. Then explain 5850. That had no competition until fermi came still $259. That's top card -1 for $259. FYI 7950 released at $459 $200 more. Similar position -1 card but $200 more money.
AMD is not nvidia and must gain customers on price. I bet they gained none this round.
Not to forget the bandwidth constraints that GTX 680 can run into even in gaming scenarios, with the most demanding games. If you look at bandwidth constrained scenarios there are games where the performance scaling from a GTX 580 to GTX 680 is < 20% . GTX 680 has enough shading power over GTX 580 (1536 shaders at 1100 Mhz vs 512 shaders at 1550 Mhz) so its not shading power thats holding it back.
Alan Wake
10% scaling from GTX 580 to GTX 680 at 1080p max
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/857-...alan-wake.html
Metro 2033
18% scaling from GTX 580 to GTX 680 at 1080p (DOF with AAA)
http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-680-review/18
Crysis Warhead
18% scaling from GTX 580 to GTX 680 at 1080p
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5699/n...x-680-review/7
The HD 7970 is built with a higher bandwidth memory subsystem and there is a power cost you pay today for a little bit of future proofness. The HD 7970 will not run into bandwidth constraints like the GTX 680 does. Also this is the scenario in launch timeframe. I can say things will be even worse when looking at more demanding games coming out in the next 2 years. The HD 7970 is the better card for people who are going to push for maximum performance with voltage OC. Also AMD is going to make things even more better with the HD 7970 Ghz edition. I am guessing 1250 Mhz with stock voltage
http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/News/299...0-a-boost.aspx
http://www.techpowerup.com/165559/AM...z-Edition.html
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every way? hardly.
They are same at same hz and i'd say amd cards are built more robust and has better compute. 680 has better power. Flip a coin really.
mrtheshaggy
[H]ard|Gawd
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Or the 9500 vanilla you could flash to 9700 pro.
AMD HD 5850 quickly shot up to USD 299 - USD 329 and the HD 5870 hit USD 449 when AMD learnt that Nvidia had no answer to HD 5000 series till Q2 2010. In fact AMD learnt a lesson from HD 5000 series that their pricing was not in the best long term interests of the company. The HD 5850 at USD 349 and HD 5870 at USD 499 would still have been competitive with GTX 285 at USD 379. Also you have to understand that starting from the HD 4000 series AMD had to rebuild the brand loss which occurred with the HD 2900 fiasco. So AMD was increasing prices conservatively.
You have to understand at the end of the day AMD is a company answerable to its shareholders and responsible for sustaining themselves as a business. You need money (profit) to channel more resources into GPU development, driver development , developer relations etc. I would rather have a healthy AMD trying to put more resources into GPU development from profits than a AMD which bleeds to death.
With Tahiti AMD has a GPU architecture which is good at GPU compute and gaming. I am looking forward to the GK110 aka GTX 780 vs HD 8970 battle. It will give a clear idea of what both the companies have achieved in terms of performance and efficiency given they are both going to be compute and gaming focussed.
As we know Core @ stock (Gigabyte OC) 980mhz boosted to 1060mhz
Extra 100mhz on the core boosts up to 1301mhz
Extra 120mhz on the core boosts up to 1401mhz
I can't really understand Chinese at all but here are some game benchmarks. Not a very high res, but decent settings. (I think)
Far Cry 2
CoD MW3
BF3
Deus Ex Human Revolution
GTA 4
GTA 4 settings with ENB mod
Crysis (2???) time demo benchmark
Source - http://tieba.baidu.com/p/1576761951?pn=2
Extra 100mhz on the core boosts up to 1301mhz
Extra 120mhz on the core boosts up to 1401mhz
I can't really understand Chinese at all but here are some game benchmarks. Not a very high res, but decent settings. (I think)
Far Cry 2
CoD MW3
BF3
Deus Ex Human Revolution
GTA 4
GTA 4 settings with ENB mod
Crysis (2???) time demo benchmark
Source - http://tieba.baidu.com/p/1576761951?pn=2
I'm a little confused as to why Nvidia would release a card that is basically equal to the GTX 680 for $100 (presumably) less. Something doesn't smell right.
Edit: And why does +100 boost to 1300, but +120 boosts to 1400? Something isn't right there.
Edit: And why does +100 boost to 1300, but +120 boosts to 1400? Something isn't right there.
one swell foop
[H]ard|Gawd
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I'm treating this as a "we don't know anything yet" situation. I feel like tweaktown's evaluation methods are too unreliable to to seriously. I saw mention of them using AMD's release drivers in their test. Still waiting on the [H] review. I may be trying to pick up another 560 ti so I can SLi and wait until the GK110 comes out later in the year...
This yield issue stuff is stupid, and it's unfortunate that the only place willing to break the NDA may be trying to hurt sales of the 680 in any capacity it can by saying that the next lowest card is neck and neck in performance when the size of the card, amongst other indications, point to this being unlikely(I'm not heavy into the technical aspects of it, this is just the general impression I get from smarter people looking at the hardware). I realize that it's hard to hurt sales when the 680- sells out as soon as it's in stock, but tweaktown seems pretty bitter, and if they could cost nVidia a few sales, they'd probably try.
InternationalHat
[H]ard|Gawd
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Cost them sales? You can't even buy the 680 in the first place lol.
wonderfield
Supreme [H]ardness
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1680x1050 paired with a $400 graphics card doesn't seem unreasonable to me. For people who are serious about performance and IQ, but who haven't yet moved to a larger monitor (or don't have the space for one), $400 is about what you'd want to spend on a graphics card.Yeah man...c'mon 1680x1050!?!?!?!?!?!
Starrbuck
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That's kinda an individual decision, don't you think? He may want to run higher quality at 1680x1050 which may not be possible with a $400 GPU. In other words, $400 may be right for you, but that's just you.
wonderfield
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Yes, it is.
Umm, yeah, but it's not thoroughly beating the 7970. I would expect the average performance gap to be around 30% if that was the case, but more often than not it's closer to 15%, in some cases far less. There's exceptions like Batman and Skyrim, sure... I did not say the 680 wasn't the faster card, it is. It's just nowhere near a GTX580 vs HD6970 situation.
Just look at one of the more demanding games of this gen, The Witcher 2: http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/05/07/witcher_2_enhanced_edition_performance_iq_review/5
There's practically no difference between the 7970/680 there - and that's where the performance really counts.
I was talking from a gaming stand point, and I don't mean out trounces it, because it doesn't, the 7970 is stol a good buy and better yet... In stock.
DejaWiz
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I suppose that's where the definition of magnitude of the word "thoroughly" becomes subjective and open to interpretation, huh? For some of us, any margin of lead means just that, a lead/a win. I suppose I should have put partial logic and common sense aside in order to discern that, in order to win a contest, it has to be by a pre-designated minimum. That's great new! ..the world can now do away with things like determining a fair winner by use of things like a photo finish apparatus, or GPU benchmarks that are more accurate than counting by 20 fps or more at a time.
But anyway, you left this out of the [H] Witcher 2 review:
Bottom line is this: both GPU's are damn close. Close enough to be able to run just about any and every game at adequate settings and provide a great experience. One brand doesn't really falter more than the other in this lineup because they are both able to maintain playable framerates in just about every game depicted in just about every review on the web. So spend your money on what you want, as neither are going to really stumble with running anything currently out. When competition is this closely matched, it's a win all around for us consumers as price tags tend to duke it out, regardless of what side of the wall one prefers to camp on. I say great job to both nVidia and AMD!
wabbitseason
[H]ard|Gawd
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Take this Nvidia fanboy with many, many grains of salt. Comparing the minor, short-lived 7970 shortage at launch to the continuing invisibility of the 680 is laughable. Everyone recognizes the 680 is a great card but here are some facts:
It isn't much better than the 7970.
It isn't available.
It has more aggressive factory clocks (much closer to the overclock ceiling).
Its "stock performance" includes on-the-fly overclocking.
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