NSA, DOE Say China's Supercomputing Advances put U.S. at Risk

Zarathustra[H]

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Goodness, China, what a big Supercomputer you have! The better to brute force your encryption with, my dear! The NSA and the DOE are both warning that unless significant increases are made in U.S. investment into supercomputer resources, China is likely to take world leadership in supercomputing as early as 2020. This may have effects ranging from national security implications and industrial espionage, to impacts on high tech manufacturing, the economy and scientific research.

With China's newer supercomputers being based on their own RISC CPU designs, there would seem to be little that can be done through export restrictions.

The report stems from a workshop held in September that was attended by 60 people, many scientists, 40 of whom work in government, with the balance representing industry and academia. The report, which summarizes that meeting, was just posted online.

The threat from China is so acute that "absent aggressive action by the U.S. -- the U.S. will lose leadership and not control its own future in HPC," the report states.
 

grtitan

Telemetry is Spying on ME!
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US can't help itself, every idiot that was and is in our government, only cares for the money, err, political contribution that our corporate overlords give them, for them to look the other way, meanwhile we the people get raped.
 

Galvin

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So tired of the USA trying to be the world police. Holy shit another country makes a better machine we're all doomed. This reads more like an excuse for more spending.
 

daglesj

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Welcome to the ride on the way down...

I'm a Brit, we've been there. Join the club.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Welcome to the ride on the way down...

I'm a Brit, we've been there. Join the club.

The difference is that this time the rising powers are authoritarian ones, which is...

...a bit disconcerting.



Hopefully at some point Chinese people will start demanding more freedoms, and the likes of the Tienanmen Square protests and Hong Kong Suffrage protests will result in some real change.

This image still defines China to me. A repressive regime putting down its people.


A rising China doesn't have to be a problem if they only adopt a liberal democracy, the only legitimate form of governance.
 

Jon855

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A rising China doesn't have to be a problem if they only adopt a liberal democracy, the only legitimate form of governance.

How about a Republic? Like the US :)

OT - I don't see an issue with this, it's not likely the restrictions on the export was holding them back. There's nothing stopping us from having an appropriate HPC for xReasons.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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How about a Republic? Like the US :)

OT - I don't see an issue with this, it's not likely the restrictions on the export was holding them back. There's nothing stopping us from having an appropriate HPC for xReasons.

The us is a constitutional republic, yes. But a constitutional republic IS a form of liberal democracy. So yeah, I'd be happy with that.
 

jedijeb13

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I remember there was an embargo on selling super computer to China for years, then Bill Clinton ended up selling them 10. I have never understood why any political or business leader has ever wanted to buddy up to China.

I went to college and later worked with a guy who escaped China and can never return because he was there in Tienanmen Square the day the above video happened. Standing up for freedom cost him the ability to ever visit his parents and other family again. He has a masters degree in radio chemistry so he was definitely one China didn't want to have get away, but I have always admired him because he is one of the smartest and hardest working people I have ever met. He didn't like to talk much about life in China, but when he did it would send chills down your spine to hear the things that happen there then never make it to the news.
 

5150Joker

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US can't help itself, every idiot that was and is in our government, only cares for the money, err, political contribution that our corporate overlords give them, for them to look the other way, meanwhile we the people get raped.

That is correct, we have one of the most corrupt governments on the planet and this is even more true for a so-called first world nation. And the sad part is it keeps getting worse and the people are voting them in.
 

ChadD

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This has already happened really. China already has the # 1 and # 2 more powerful supercomputers on earth. The only thing that has really changed is #2 was powered by Intel and # 1 isn't.

Its the US own fault... in 2015 after being annoyed that China would use their super computers to crunch weapon numbers, they banned the sale of Intel chips for super computer projects. It left China with no choice but to innovate. They have upped their spending to stupid levels and now plan to hit the Exobyte mark 3-4 years before the US gets there. Yes if they start operating machines that powerful the idea of them being able to brute force even the craziest encryption tech in a short turn around becomes a reality.

China is going to start pushing into the worlds tech devices in the next few years... and not just in manufacturing them. The idea of more and more devices shipped with Chinese designed processing power running them should scare the crap out of companies like Intel.
 

chenw

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Too little, too late.

Outsourcing production and technology to China, even if low level tech, has basically giving them a technology boost and paying them for it.

My main problem with China electronic products is, at its very basic level, that they cannot be trusted. They are the only government with absolute control over what its people see/hear/believes (making everyone of its citizens frogs down the bottom of the well), and once encouraged people to 'rat' out on others. They also have enough executive power to influence the designs of such devices, because it's primarily used to monitor its citizens anyhow. I'll give credit where it's due, at least Chinese devices can be trusted to be untrustworthy.


I don't have nearly as much as problem with its form of government (Democracy is merely the "flavour" of the age) as its actual government officials.
 

Master_shake_

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maybe if the 3 lettered agencies didn't try to knee-cap encryption this wouldn't be an issue.
 
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Krab

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Our corporations and government have sold us out for quick profits. As long as the stock ticks up 5 points tomorrow who gives a shit where we are in 20 or 30 years.
 

daglesj

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Our corporations and government have sold us out for quick profits. As long as the stock ticks up 5 points tomorrow who gives a shit where we are in 20 or 30 years.

You can see the bewildered look on the Congressmen's faces at the Townhalls when people shout "You work for us!"

They genuinely looked puzzled at that, as they have been suckling on the corporate teat for so long. Goes for both sides.
 

Rob94hawk

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No one is surprised about China's advances in tech. They all go to school in the US.

Look up Stony Brook University in NY. Over 25% of the students are Chinese.

Meanwhile US born students get rejected cause the foreign students pay 3x the tuition even though the US students have better grades.

Our government and Universities are throwing this country under the bus in so many ways.
 

DrLobotomy

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All those 'Made in China' stickers and tags we all grew up with are starting to pay off now.

It is almost like that guy who looks all surprised when he finds out he got herpes from that prostitute he had sex with.
 

lironmiron

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That is correct, we have one of the most corrupt governments on the planet and this is even more true for a so-called first world nation.
Not really. Other than Scandinavia, Japan, and Switzerland, the US is (still) pretty average as far as 1st world corruption and it is vastly less corrupt than most of the 2nd and 3rd world.
In a recent trip, it took me 3 hours to go from the airport to a hotel 15 miles away because the bridge going out from the airport through one of the main highways was under repairs. Turns out it always takes that long because the freaking bridge has been under repairs for 13 years. 8 repairs have been done in that time, each taking way longer than expected, and the 8 have failed within months. Over $200 million have been spent in one repair after the other and the 150-foot-long bridge is worse every time. Still they keep paying. Not a single engineer has lost his license. Not a single official either from the construction companies or the government has been questioned about it. And 100 thousand drivers get choked into a single crumpled lane of the bridge every day while another repair is attempted. They say that bridge is the rule and not the exception... and the state of all their streets proves it. That would not fly in the US.

The big problem with corruption starts when government officials stop being ashamed of being corrupt in broad daylight, and the US has traditionally been very good in that aspect, but the heavy polarization between liberals and conservatives is making that start to happen in the US. Large groups of citizens are starting to reject any criticism of corrupt officials from their favorite flavor party and calling all members of the opposite party corrupt, regardless of their behavior. This has made officials in both parties mask obviously corrupt acts in party lines and then unashamedly embracing them, to wild cheers from the masses. That is what scares me the most.

No one is surprised about China's advances in tech. They all go to school in the US.
But the strategy there is actually sound. Get the most brilliant young Chinese and let them live in freedom and democracy for years. When they return, their education should make them inevitably rise to top positions. Hopefully, they will never be satisfied with living in an oppressive tyranny again, so the system should start to change.
 

mullet

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The us is a constitutional republic, yes. But a constitutional republic IS a form of liberal democracy. So yeah, I'd be happy with that.


Democracy = 2 wolves and 1 sheep voting on what is for dinner.

Republic = 2 wolves and 1 sheep voting on what is for dinner but the sheep has a AR-15.
 
D

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Let's make computing great again and make it to exascale first.
 

bloosteak

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A lot of these comments about the Chinese government being repressive are WAY off. What is this the 80's?

Tiananmen Square was the American equivalent of Kent State. American democracy is not better for its average citizen than the CCPs way of doing things.

If you want to compare propaganda, does anyone here believe Chinese propaganda is anywhere nearly as effective as American propaganda? Look up "Manufacturing Consent" by Noam Chomsky to see how American propaganda works.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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A lot of these comments about the Chinese government being repressive are WAY off. What is this the 80's?

Tiananmen Square was the American equivalent of Kent State. American democracy is not better for its average citizen than the CCPs way of doing things.

If you want to compare propaganda, does anyone here believe Chinese propaganda is anywhere nearly as effective as American propaganda? Look up "Manufacturing Consent" by Noam Chomsky to see how American propaganda works.


Are you on crack? They still disappear dissidents or put them under house arrest, censor the internet, oppress minority groups and are an authoritarian regime with no democratic process.

I reiterate. A liberal democracy (liberal as in free, not as in left wing) is the ONLY legitimate form of governance.
 
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