No Upgrading Your New Retina MacBook Pro

nOrVow said:
How's the reliability of Alienware lappies? i've heard horror stories about them...
Click to expand...

I've heard horror stories about Apple's laptops, too... coupled with people having to take them to court to honour a warranty and being faced with Apple Lawyers from out of state to argue over a $1200 laptop.
 
techrat said:
What's even more boggling to me is that there are so many Apple apologists ON AN ENTHUSIAST SITE LIKE THIS ONE.
Click to expand...

It's all very simple. Steve trolls the Apple guys, the Apple guys troll the Apple haters, Steve profits from all the extra ads served, everyone goes home happy that they made the other guys look like foaming-at-the-mouth idiots.
 
Let me just put on the flame suit now and step into the room.

Generally speaking, anyone who buys a laptop over $1k is a moron, barring money-no-object business needs which are damn few. Cost of ownership of a laptop long term can be really insane if you can't afford to just toss it and replace it every few years.

And anyone who buys one of THESE, at over $2k, with almost no ability to service the thing, are even BIGGER morons than those who shell out for difficult to work on Alienware laptops.

If you don't get the bumper-to-bumper extended warranty, you have nothing if it fails.

Somehow, Apple has convinced the average family it needs a Lamborghini in the garage and a service contract for it when in fact that should obviously be a terrible, terrible idea.
 
This thread is literally insane. How anyone can think this is a step backwards just blows my mind.

Just watch, every big manufacturer is going to be trying to pull this off themselves for a year or two.
 
soldierblue said:
This thread is literally insane. How anyone can think this is a step backwards just blows my mind.

Just watch, every big manufacturer is going to be trying to pull this off themselves for a year or two.
Click to expand...

Just because other manufacturers will try to copy the process doesn't mean it's a step forward. The more proprietary computers get, the more disposable they are. Are you honestly trying to imply it's a good thing that we have machines with those kinds of specs that are effectively disposable?
 
looks like servicing apples are going to be out of the question for most shops.. jesus christ.. thought repairs were expensive right now
 
techrat said:
Just because other manufacturers will try to copy the process doesn't mean it's a step forward. The more proprietary computers get, the more disposable they are. Are you honestly trying to imply it's a good thing that we have machines with those kinds of specs that are effectively disposable?
Click to expand...

Are you kidding? You're completely missing the point. Nothing this powerful has ever been this thin. Nothing. Then the display? Nobody has ever done that. No one. And it's a step backwards? Come on. When Asus copies it, you guys will be all over it.
 
soldierblue said:
Are you kidding? You're completely missing the point. Nothing this powerful has ever been this thin. Nothing. Then the display? Nobody has ever done that. No one. And it's a step backwards? Come on. When Asus copies it, you guys will be all over it.
Click to expand...

No, I won't. Because what Apple is doing is NOT for the better. I'd rather have a laptop that is easily fixable by hand. Not something where the ENTIRE THING has to be replaced when one little bitty thing goes wrong.

Apple turning $2000+ laptops into wholly disposable parts is a GINORMOUS step backwards. Just as their non-user-serviceable batteries in phones, tablets and laptops were a huge step backwards. Just as their standards breaking was a huge step backwards. Just as their proprietary components were a huge step backwards.

I will never, EVER buy any product again where the battery cannot be removed by hand.
 
techrat said:
What's even more boggling to me is that there are so many Apple apologists ON AN ENTHUSIAST SITE LIKE THIS ONE.

I used to joke that Steve and the boys only ever needed to write a one line article on How to [H]ard up your Mac. "Throw it in the trash, buy a new one."

Boy is that fucking nailing it right on the head now. At least before you could swap HDs, RAM and replace the battery.
Click to expand...
I know, right? That's almost as bad as how all the graphics memory these days is soldered directly to the video card. So one IC goes, and starts making your textures look all funky? TOO BAD. You need to replace the whole stinkin' $500 card. $1000 if it's one of those fancy double chip cards. All that, just for one little IC that's probably 1/20th of the value. Why is it that people ever accepted the idea of treating these absurdly expensive pieces of technology as disposable?

Plus, it's just another way to nickel and dime us if we want to upgrade. Say some new game comes out that doesn't computationally stress our GPU, but it does use up all the memory. So what do you have to do? If Big Compute had their way, you'd just throw it out and buy a new one with higher density memory ICs. That's ridiculous! It would be far, far less expensive to swap out the RAM if the stupid chips weren't soldered to the board. Instead you have to pay for a new top-of-the-line GPU you don't need, and a PCB you already have.

It's all about profit margins. If we could buy our own VRAM a la carte they'd just make less money.

Now, there are those who will say I'm crazy, and that non user-serviceable memory is an acceptable sacrifice to bring down PCB complexity or ensure compatibility. I'm shocked to think I might hear something like that here, on an ENTHUSIAST FORUM. It SHOULD go without saying, especially here, that being able to tinker with and replace my own memory is a good thing, right? Why have we let Big Compute push us around this way???

Don't even get me started about how GPUs are unceremoniously soldered onto laptop motherboards wholesale, along with their memory. Now you have to throw out your whole laptop motherboard if the GPU goes bad. People might not think that's a bad idea - until nVidia screws up the solder job for a whole series of GPUs, and your only hope of getting your laptop to work again is to stick its motherboard in the oven. Good luck!

This is just another sacrifice in the name of user experience. The unwashed masses win and we enthusiasts constantly finding the domain of our hobby growing smaller and smaller. It won't end until we're all using cookie-cutter smartphone-tablet hybrids that only run code from a sanctioned "app store" and are designed from the ground up not to be 'tampered' with, in the name of 'security'. They'll say it's for your security (from viruses), but it's really for the security of their profits and their intellectual property.
 
techrat said:
No, I won't. Because what Apple is doing is NOT for the better. I'd rather have a laptop that is easily fixable by hand. Not something where the ENTIRE THING has to be replaced when one little bitty thing goes wrong.

Apple turning $2000+ laptops into wholly disposable parts is a GINORMOUS step backwards. Just as their non-user-serviceable batteries in phones, tablets and laptops were a huge step backwards. Just as their standards breaking was a huge step backwards. Just as their proprietary components were a huge step backwards.

I will never, EVER buy any product again where the battery cannot be removed by hand.
Click to expand...

I don't even know what to say. So, you're just going to stop buying new technology as this becomes the norm? No matter how reliable it may be anyway?
 
LstOfTheBrunnenG said:
(snip)
Click to expand...

Well said. I don't understand the hate here. You want a quad core machine in that thin of a form factor, you expect compromises like a nonremovable battery and soldered on RAM. If you want user serviceability, go buy something else (e.g. a decent quality business laptop). Simple as that.
 
Advil said:
Generally speaking, anyone who buys a laptop over $1k is a moron, barring money-no-object business needs which are damn few.
Click to expand...

And yet half the people here spend well over $1000 on their desktops, many simply for gaming. Someone here can spend $1000+ on their graphics cards alone (which'll only last 2 or 3 years and mostly only be used for gaming*) and no one complains, but suddenly spending over $1000 on a laptop is idiotic.

*If you spend $1000 on graphics cards for F@H, well, respect man. Respect.
 
Spending a grand for a laptop is not likely going to happen for the general consumer, that's for sure. Those of us that are using such laptops would be purchasing business grade machines usually... however, one can easily spec out a laptop that would cost a grand yet it'd still be a consumer machine. The act of shoving in a 512GB SSD to a typical ivy bridge machine should do it.

Honestly though, I do question if macbook is really that attractive, given the fact that laptops have been around for so long that the consumers would see getting one out of pragmatic needs, since laptops aren't the 'sexy, in thing' to have.
 
night_2004 said:
I seem to remember the Dell D420 and D430, which had thin profiles for their time, also having non-upgradeable components (I would know because I had one). People are just bitching about it because they like to bitch about Apple.
Click to expand...

That's not true. You could upgrade the memory and the hard drive. Granted there weren't a lot of options out there for the hard drive since it was a 1.8" ZIF drive, but it could be done. And it had a single slot for memory upgrading up to 2GB max (chipset limitation).
 
madrebel said:
this is the first apple laptop i actually want to buy.
Click to expand...

same here. I've actually thought about dumping my desktop/laptop all together in favor of one and dual booting OS and Windows. It would also save me a TON of space just for the desktop and it's accessories alone.
 
Pylon said:
Well said. I don't understand the hate here. You want a quad core machine in that thin of a form factor, you expect compromises like a nonremovable battery and soldered on RAM. If you want user serviceability, go buy something else (e.g. a decent quality business laptop). Simple as that.
Click to expand...

I've boiled it down to human mentality, all humans need an enemy at every single point in their lives. It just so happens that with PC nerds it is Apple at this stage in their life.
 
"but its thin."

How thin do you have to get before its just an e-bragging thing.
 
Melon said:
Let's see the Apple fanatics defend this one. :D
Click to expand...

Perfect fit for them...Apple people do not upgrade their computers. They buy new ones instead. AND... they look down on PC users as immature.
 
rw3 said:
How do I know this? Microsoft issued a statement to employees telling them that if they wanted to use Macs, they had to buy them. Microsoft was no longer spending money on them....
Click to expand...

Doesn't mean that a majority were using them, just that there were some that were.
 
soldierblue said:
I don't even know what to say. So, you're just going to stop buying new technology as this becomes the norm? No matter how reliable it may be anyway?
Click to expand...

If this becomes the norm, we are all fucked.

It's not a computer, its an internet consumer device at this point, and Apple is pushing it even further in this direction.

It's too bad for a company that started by making DIY computer kits.
 
stealthy123 said:
I always think that apple keyboards look shitty to type on, are they shitty?
Click to expand...

I find that they work better than they look, but are still not that great.

But I'm spoiled by predominantly typing on IBM Model M's, so pretty much everything else is going to feel like a step down.
 
I will also say this, from a business perspective this is really the right thing for apple to do. Apple, dell and most of the big US based PC makers all make alot of profit but upselling. They way over charge for upgrades. Alot of people have wised up to that and prefer to buy base models and upgrade things like ram, SSD, and so on by themself.
Now with a PC maker if they screw you over like this then you can just pop off and buy a competing product from someone else. But with a mac you do not have any choice. So a great way for apple to force those types of people to pay even more is to make everything as hard to upgrade as possible. Since the ram and hard drives were 2 of the easiest to upgrade, fixing those or using proprietory connections was another way to force people to over pay for the features they want. The big point here is it will work for apple where it may not have worked for a PC maker.
 
wonderfield said:
Which it is. By default, every element (except Retina-specific raster assets) is scaled by a factor of two. It can be adjusted so that elements are smaller, but by default, everything is scaled by a factor of two.
Click to expand...

In which case, what is the point of this resolution?

You aren't gaining any extra screen real estate (which is why - at least for professional users) why they go up in resolution) and you aren't going to be gaining much (anything?) in the way of screen appearance. At normal working distances, if scaled properly, the screen will probably look no different than a 1920x1080 screen.

With so many pixels on such a small screen at normal use differences, the limitation becomes the human eye, not the technology, at which point the only purpose of a 2880x1800 screen becomes marketing, so you can say "but my numbers are bigger than yours", even if they have no practical use.

My guess is that most Mac users would be better served by a lower resolution screen with better color accuracy, than they would with this "designed for advertising" joke.
 
rudy said:
I will also say this, from a business perspective this is really the right thing for apple to do. Apple, dell and most of the big US based PC makers all make alot of profit but upselling. They way over charge for upgrades. Alot of people have wised up to that and prefer to buy base models and upgrade things like ram, SSD, and so on by themself.
Now with a PC maker if they screw you over like this then you can just pop off and buy a competing product from someone else. But with a mac you do not have any choice. So a great way for apple to force those types of people to pay even more is to make everything as hard to upgrade as possible. Since the ram and hard drives were 2 of the easiest to upgrade, fixing those or using proprietory connections was another way to force people to over pay for the features they want. The big point here is it will work for apple where it may not have worked for a PC maker.
Click to expand...

So, essentially you are saying, "Good job Apple, you have gotten better at screwing over your customers than you used to be. (and you used to be a market leader at this)" :rolleyes:

Behavior like this is not to be celebrated. It is to be scorned and denounced!
 
dr.stevil said:
same here. I've actually thought about dumping my desktop/laptop all together in favor of one and dual booting OS and Windows. It would also save me a TON of space just for the desktop and it's accessories alone.
Click to expand...

So what, do you not use CDs or DVDs anymore? That's always been my major point of contention with me and this form factor for any Ultralight.

I've actually gone from laptops to a desktop because of the problems I've experienced with laptops. With a desktop, just about any parts can be replaced ala carte, whereas with a laptop, even if the part is replaceable, you're very limited in where you can find or buy it from, and you pay a premium ontop of that. It's also why I'd personally stay away from the macbook air, since the lid usually contains the wifi antenna and some other components, not just the display, and if any of those go, you have to replace the entire thing.

I'd also worry about bumps and small drops when using macs. Drop your laptop from two feet? Uh-oh. Screen won't turn on.
 
BBA said:
Perfect fit for them...Apple people do not upgrade their computers. They buy new ones instead. AND... they look down on PC users as immature.
Click to expand...

This thread is pretty damning...

I've heard Apple fanboys make many strange claims over the years but Apple hating has absolutely become the modern variant. It doesn't take a genius to understand that modularity is simply a tradeoff for portability and this thread should have ended with that statement at post #2.

And complaining about the resolution just takes the cake.
 
Zarathustra[H];1038833829 said:
In which case, what is the point of this resolution?

You aren't gaining any extra screen real estate (which is why - at least for professional users) why they go up in resolution) and you aren't going to be gaining much (anything?) in the way of screen appearance. At normal working distances, if scaled properly, the screen will probably look no different than a 1920x1080 screen.

With so many pixels on such a small screen at normal use differences, the limitation becomes the human eye, not the technology, at which point the only purpose of a 2880x1800 screen becomes marketing, so you can say "but my numbers are bigger than yours", even if they have no practical use.

My guess is that most Mac users would be better served by a lower resolution screen with better color accuracy, than they would with this "designed for advertising" joke.
Click to expand...

Videos aren't being recorded for that resolution or anything nearing it, and it would be a huge drain on computer resources to run applications at the full resolution.
 
Matalim said:
Apple haters fail to grasp that Apple is not the only company with a laptop that has a non upgradable RAM.
Click to expand...
Apple apologists fail to grasp that others do not fail to grasp; we do grasp. And we castigate for it. Apple apologists, though, believe Apple can do no wrong--even to the point of believing that they were, in fact, holding a phone incorrectly.
 
ballistic90 said:
So what, do you not use CDs or DVDs anymore? That's always been my major point of contention with me and this form factor for any Ultralight.

I've actually gone from laptops to a desktop because of the problems I've experienced with laptops. With a desktop, just about any parts can be replaced ala carte, whereas with a laptop, even if the part is replaceable, you're very limited in where you can find or buy it from, and you pay a premium ontop of that. It's also why I'd personally stay away from the macbook air, since the lid usually contains the wifi antenna and some other components, not just the display, and if any of those go, you have to replace the entire thing.

I'd also worry about bumps and small drops when using macs. Drop your laptop from two feet? Uh-oh. Screen won't turn on.
Click to expand...

Op, sorry, I thought this thread was about the Macbook Air.

Pretend I seperated my comments for the Ultralight out of this comment. I despise Ultralights...
 
SkribbelKat said:
In all fairness, the innards and design choices make it obvious that this is meant to be disposable after the warranty expires. It meets the designers' intent.
Click to expand...
It wouldn't meet my wants as a consumer. And as a consumer, I'm sovereign. The intent of a designer means nothing unless you get real people (not zombies) to purchase it.
 
Zarathustra[H];1038833829 said:
In which case, what is the point of this resolution?

You aren't gaining any extra screen real estate (which is why - at least for professional users) why they go up in resolution) and you aren't going to be gaining much (anything?) in the way of screen appearance. At normal working distances, if scaled properly, the screen will probably look no different than a 1920x1080 screen.

With so many pixels on such a small screen at normal use differences, the limitation becomes the human eye, not the technology, at which point the only purpose of a 2880x1800 screen becomes marketing, so you can say "but my numbers are bigger than yours", even if they have no practical use.

My guess is that most Mac users would be better served by a lower resolution screen with better color accuracy, than they would with this "designed for advertising" joke.
Click to expand...

Do you use anti-aliasing in your games? Same thing.

Literally, even, because 4x DPI is equal to to 4x SSAA without the downscaling. Lack of resolution is the whole reason AA exists in the first place.
 
Zarathustra[H];1038833807 said:
Tablets and phones are typically held closer to your eyes than a computer screen.
Click to expand...

Given the screen size and ppi it does not matter, your ignoring the fact that Apple has already transitioned their osx/ios environments to be retina aware.

Otherwise like I said, you would not possibly be able to do anything. I'm not just talking about Safari, chrome, IE, etc. I am talking about everything from the GUI, apps, nonstandard apps, programs and browsing the internet.

Do you own any retina device or used one enough to justify any sort of logical argument?

Is there a difference in your opinion with the HP Touchpad and iPads screens? Absolutely the iPad crushes it and the font on both are the exact same size except one looks like a leprechaun sneezed on it.

If Apple releases a 27" retina panel I would likey bet the OS would do the adjustments needed as well.
 
evilsofa said:
Not overpriced. Ask the guys in the Displays forum how much they'd pay for a 2880x1800 display.

The nonconfigurability is the price you pay for a laptop that's less than 3/4th of an inch thick.
Click to expand...

...You're talking about the Macbook AIR, not the Macbook PRO. The Macbook Pro is Apple's standard laptop, not the Ultralight people seem to think they are talking about.
 
Zarathustra[H];1038833833 said:
So, essentially you are saying, "Good job Apple, you have gotten better at screwing over your customers than you used to be. (and you used to be a market leader at this)" :rolleyes:

Behavior like this is not to be celebrated. It is to be scorned and denounced!
Click to expand...

/shrug

I am not saying I am celebrating it, I just don't think people should be all up in arms about it. This is par for the course for this company, if you don't like it you probably would have never owned or cared to own a mac anyway. It's kinda like being mad that a prostitute added another john to her client list.

This is apples business model, turn everything into an appliance where the entire device is trashed once anything goes wrong. We can complain but its been working pretty well for them. It is up to customers to care, and millions of them do not care.
 
Also I will say this. Laptops have always had a pretty high level of integration and lack of upgrade paths. This is why most of my computers are desktops, but the fact is when I look at all the people around me I work with and know, none of them build computers except the ones I have taught. Most people do in fact see a computer as an appliance, they will never upgrade it. So for them this just is not part of the purchasing decision.

For those of us who do care we have some better options in laptops but not much better. Laptops will very soon become just like phones, an SOC, so integrated that it is only a hand full of parts.
 
Zarathustra[H];1038833829 said:
In which case, what is the point of this resolution?

You aren't gaining any extra screen real estate (which is why - at least for professional users) why they go up in resolution) and you aren't going to be gaining much (anything?) in the way of screen appearance. At normal working distances, if scaled properly, the screen will probably look no different than a 1920x1080 screen.

With so many pixels on such a small screen at normal use differences, the limitation becomes the human eye, not the technology, at which point the only purpose of a 2880x1800 screen becomes marketing, so you can say "but my numbers are bigger than yours", even if they have no practical use.

My guess is that most Mac users would be better served by a lower resolution screen with better color accuracy, than they would with this "designed for advertising" joke.
Click to expand...

You are not getting it. The entire OS is designed for the resolution. Legacy applications and programs are upscaled when needed. All Apple programs and the vast majority of aps released from here on out will also be retina aware. Productivity programs will still be legible yet offer 4 times the working area.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top