Next HEDT platform

Lucky75

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Hello guys,
any news for next HEDT platform ? Or Intel stop moving in that direction at all.
 

Ready4Dis

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Hello guys,
any news for next HEDT platform ? Or Intel stop moving in that direction at all.
I haven't heard to much, and availability of the 10 series was crap, couple people on here bought MBs and waited some time for them to get in stock. I think Intel doesn't have much focus on HEDT since they had to slash the prices in half to stay somewhat relevant. Margins are much lower now so if they are going to have limited production capability, it's going to be for higher margin parts (at least that's how it felt for this last set of HEDT parts).
 

Grebuloner

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couple people on here bought MBs and waited some time
Your use of past tense is partially incorrect. We're still waiting for our XE preorders. Major etailers removed the products from their sites because they can't get them.

The "Ice Lake X" name has popped up in places (including the Linux kernel), likely to be released in mid 2021 after Ice Lake SP makes its general availability and MB makers can do their things at the trade shows. But no telling what the 7nm delay/10nm acceleration and yesterday's reorg will do to the roadmaps. Intel has a very consistent history of releasing HEDT chips based on the 2P server platform, and there's no reason for them to stop.
 

Lucky75

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I have 7960x and wandering to wait for something new or just next year to move to AMD 4970x.
 

Dan_D

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I wouldn't expect anything for awhile. Intel is going to have to get past their 14nm process in order to truly compete. A chiplet based design would be better too, as it would enable more flexibility and improve yields. As it is, the monolithic dies at 14nm are too costly and yields too poor to provide virtually any availability of these CPU's. I've tried to find a Core i9-10980XE since they launched and have been unable to do so. An existing 9980XE would be fine too as they are damn near the same thing, but gouging on those (and the few 10980XE's that do make their way into the wild) makes that unreasonable.

At this point, you can get a Threadripper 3960X for the same or less money than what a 10980XE actually goes for on Ebay (the only place where these seem to exist), which makes no sense.
 

LFaWolf

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I have been running an i9-10940x for more than 8 months now and it has been running fine. Glad I got it when it came out because the supply of the Cascade Lake-X seems to have all dried up. Honestly I feel Intel is concentrating on Enterprise and Data Center and not so much on enthusiast market anymore.
 

Ready4Dis

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Your use of past tense is partially incorrect. We're still waiting for our XE preorders. Major etailers removed the products from their sites because they can't get them.

The "Ice Lake X" name has popped up in places (including the Linux kernel), likely to be released in mid 2021 after Ice Lake SP makes its general availability and MB makers can do their things at the trade shows. But no telling what the 7nm delay/10nm acceleration and yesterday's reorg will do to the roadmaps. Intel has a very consistent history of releasing HEDT chips based on the 2P server platform, and there's no reason for them to stop.
Some have gotten them, so I wasn't sure the best way, I guess I could have added "with some still waiting". I would not expect availability for the next HEDT from Intel to be any better.
 

Lucky75

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Yes, and questions is to wait 1-2 years and to move to next Intel CPUs or just to migrate to AMD team with 32 cores for better price.
 

Factum

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I have been running an i9-10940x for more than 8 months now and it has been running fine. Glad I got it when it came out because the supply of the Cascade Lake-X seems to have all dried up. Honestly I feel Intel is concentrating on Enterprise and Data Center and not so much on enthusiast market anymore.
Intel have had short runs when they focused on "Enthusiasts" (I remember somethin with a skull as logo) but their main focus has always been server/datacenter and laptops (was it Centrino?).
The requirements for server/datacenter and "enthusiasts" has just diverged the last couple of years.
 

Denpepe

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I have been running an i9-10940x for more than 8 months now and it has been running fine. Glad I got it when it came out because the supply of the Cascade Lake-X seems to have all dried up. Honestly I feel Intel is concentrating on Enterprise and Data Center and not so much on enthusiast market anymore.
I think intel's main problem atm is they can't make enough CPU's to saturate the demand and with threadripper decimating their margins on HEDT they don't seem to want to put a lot of resources into that segment for the moment as these are basically rebranded slightly modified xeons CPU's.
 

lopoetve

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I think intel's main problem atm is they can't make enough CPU's to saturate the demand and with threadripper decimating their margins on HEDT they don't seem to want to put a lot of resources into that segment for the moment as these are basically rebranded slightly modified xeons CPU's.
Mostly accurate I suspect, plus server chip sales are off the charts right now (especially with all the WFH initiatives - VDI/etc take a lot of sockets). They've had CPU shortages across the board for a while now, demand is so high.
 

Dan_D

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I have been running an i9-10940x for more than 8 months now and it has been running fine. Glad I got it when it came out because the supply of the Cascade Lake-X seems to have all dried up. Honestly I feel Intel is concentrating on Enterprise and Data Center and not so much on enthusiast market anymore.
Cascade Lake-X availability was never high. The Core i9-10980XE has pretty much been vaporware and 10940X's are pretty rare. I've only seen one or two out in the wild. 10900X and 10920X's are generally easy enough to get. Demand for those is probably much lower and yields are almost certainly considerably higher on them as well.

Some have gotten them, so I wasn't sure the best way, I guess I could have added "with some still waiting". I would not expect availability for the next HEDT from Intel to be any better.
Most seem to be getting resold on Ebay for higher prices. Availability of Intel's next generation CPU's will depend on a ton of variables. I wouldn't expect a new generation at 14nm at this point. Intel's probably going to transition to it's own 10nm manufacturing (if they can ramp up capacity) or outsource their manufacturing to TSMC or Samsung for 7nm. This will take time as Intel still needs to design and tape out, etc. You can't just design something for your own non-existent or non-functional 7nm process and then transition to someone else's. CPU architectures are designed for specific manufacturing processes. So, Intel's not starting at square one, but they are way behind here.

We won't really see a competitive Intel until late 2022 or 2023 and that's being very optimistic.

Yes, and questions is to wait 1-2 years and to move to next Intel CPUs or just to migrate to AMD team with 32 cores for better price.
You have no idea what's next for Intel. You can't plan on migration to something that doesn't exist and may not exist for some time. AMD is also going to be on Zen 3, (4000 series) CPU's well before Intel gets anywhere. Hell, we may even see Zen 4 before Intel announces anything worth thinking about. If you need a workstation now, then you can pick up a Threadripper 3960X for about what it would cost you to buy a Core i9-10980XE on Ebay right now. You get nearly double the cores and threads with less power consumption. AMD has a slight IPC advantage today as well.

Right now, it makes little sense to go with an Intel HEDT setup over AMD right now.

Intel have had short runs when they focused on "Enthusiasts" (I remember somethin with a skull as logo) but their main focus has always been server/datacenter and laptops (was it Centrino?).
The requirements for server/datacenter and "enthusiasts" has just diverged the last couple of years.
Let's be clear, while Intel has occasionally built products that it stated were for gaming enthusiasts, it has never focused on them. Each of its attempts at catering to that market were workstation or server products with skull logos on them. It's last consumer motherboards were basically OEM style, DIY desktop boards with feature sets that either didn't make sense or weren't good enough for the enthusiast and gamer. Some of the hardware was rebadged workstation hardware. The DX48SO, D5400XS, (Skulltrail), etc. were all examples of this. The Devil's Canyon 4790K was intended for overclockers, but all you got was a better TIM that gave you a slight boost over the outgoing 4770K.

That's how Intel does "enthusiast" gaming. Intel has always had a commercial / datacenter first strategy. Mobile and server markets happen to share a similar need for performance per watt as a focus, so that's what Intel's been doing for more than a decade. It never gave two squirts of piss about producing desktop hardware for enthusiasts. It's always considered rebadged Xeons or scaled up mobile processors good enough for the job. Given how badly AMD has competed with Intel over most of that time, Intel was usually right.

I think intel's main problem atm is they can't make enough CPU's to saturate the demand and with threadripper decimating their margins on HEDT they don't seem to want to put a lot of resources into that segment for the moment as these are basically rebranded slightly modified xeons CPU's.
I agree. Expanding on that, you have to understand that the 14nm process isn't good for these massive monolithic dies. It's a process that was designed back when quad core CPU's were all the rage. Every time they add core count to the mix, the defect rate goes up, yields fall and Intel ends up with lower margins and less inventory to sell. Intel can produce 56c/112t CPU's, or 22c/44t desktop CPU's and have done so. Unfortunately, the yields aren't there to fill demands for these products in the server and workstation markets. That's why the Xeon W3175X was around $3,000 and Xeon 9282's and the like are over 10K each in OEM only configurations.

At 14nm, the power envelope and cooling requirements for these monsters make them a non-starter for the desktop. That's why Intel hasn't bothered producing a CPU with more than 18c/36t for the desktop or HEDT market for more than 3 years now. It's offered well more than that in the datacenters for years.

Xeon and HEDT parts are very similar, but most CPU's Intel makes are destined for the datacenter. It can't meet the demand of the HEDT market because yields for CPU's that are good enough are too low to meet supply, and at half price ($1,000 instead of $2,000), it's margins are too low for Intel to put any priority on that market. Intel can only fill this weird mid-range HEDT niche or provide upgrades for the existing X299 install base. It's priorities just aren't with that group so the Cascade Lake-X series trickles out in pathetic numbers. Make no mistake, the Core i9-10980XE is more of a PR stunt than a product you can buy.

Mostly accurate I suspect, plus server chip sales are off the charts right now (especially with all the WFH initiatives - VDI/etc take a lot of sockets). They've had CPU shortages across the board for a while now, demand is so high.
Yep. Intel has no choice but to fulfill datacenter orders first. HEDT isn't hardly even an after thought given the current situation Intel's in. HEDT makes up a small percentage of sales anyway, but AMD has killed virtually all margin in that market for them.
 
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D-EJ915

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I haven't seen any news for the 2066 socket replacement yet. I imagine it'd either be toward the end of the year or more likely next year when they announce it.
 

LFaWolf

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Intel have had short runs when they focused on "Enthusiasts" (I remember somethin with a skull as logo) but their main focus has always been server/datacenter and laptops (was it Centrino?).
The requirements for server/datacenter and "enthusiasts" has just diverged the last couple of years.
Actually, at the beginning and at some points, there was a good supply of the Cascade Lake-X. I actually still have another 10940x amd 10920x. BestBuy was the best retailer as it was the only retailer not to charge additional money over the MSRP. However, almost as soon as they get them in stock, they were sold out. At one point all of the Cascade Lake-X except 10980xe was in stock, but while I was contemplating which one to buy, all were sold out except the 10920x so bought another one. I was really surprised how many people still use and upgrade x299 platform.
 

kirbyrj

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I was really surprised how many people still use and upgrade x299 platform.
The irony of course, is that certain segments of the community complain about AMD using AM4 for so long, but x299 came out within months of the first AM4 boards. At least AM4 has different chipsets/processors to go with it other than Skylake rehash after rehash after rehash....

I had a 7820x and when I bought it, it was a great chip. If I would have hung onto it, I'd probably be looking to upgrade since it's as simple as a bios update and locating the CPU.
 

techie81

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The irony of course, is that certain segments of the community complain about AMD using AM4 for so long, but x299 came out within months of the first AM4 boards. At least AM4 has different chipsets/processors to go with it other than Skylake rehash after rehash after rehash....

I had a 7820x and when I bought it, it was a great chip. If I would have hung onto it, I'd probably be looking to upgrade since it's as simple as a bios update and locating the CPU.
I have a 7820x and its a great chip. Recently just slapped some water cooling on it and feel like I extended its life for at least another year. If the other x299 CPU options had plentiful stock I wouldn't be so annoyed but its lasted longer than I had hoped. I even contacted Intel directly about the 10980XE and they basically said it was EOL. x299 was a great platform and I am not switching over until something more than an incremental upgrade comes along.
 

Meeho

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The irony of course, is that certain segments of the community complain about AMD using AM4 for so long, but x299 came out within months of the first AM4 boards. At least AM4 has different chipsets/processors to go with it other than Skylake rehash after rehash after rehash....
Yeah, Intel's sockets tend to last when they have nothing new to release.
 

German Muscle

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Ice Lake X is whats next. Ice Lake SPs have been spotted in the wild. It will likely be a Q3 or Q4 release.

I dont think HEDT has been abandoned. They are focusing on Mainstream because thats where they are taking on the most water from Ryzen. Threadripper doesnt really compete with Intel HEDT.

Unless they drastically increase the PCIE Lanes on the CPU and get rid of this VROC BS im perfectly fine on X299. Honestly my GF wants a PC that can game and with the extra 2066 cpus i have it was cheaper to buy a used board for 250 then buy a used board and CPU even from other platforms. Still want a 7980xe soon though to play with.
 

nealx01

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14nm demand is high, selling more expensive xeons with the dies that would go to the 10980xe line makes more sense. that said finally in the last 2 weeks retailers have gotten 10980xe deliveries. i got my 2nd this month. after getting a bad overclocker for my 1st in december. theres been NONE available since january. 9980xe inventory has been clearenced and is matching 10980xe msrp pricing finally. so keep an eye out for those if you want. the 4 pcie lanes isnt really a big deal between the two. otherwise theyre identical for all intents and purposes.

i dont know what to expect for whatever comes next. 10nm isnt happening with high core counts in a meaningful way to end users, and we all know the big news this week about 7.. so i dont expect much on the HEDT side from intel for a long time. maybe a 3175x refresh as thats been hinted by guys like LUUMI and Wendel from L1techs. but if demand for 14nm stays as high as it is now from the big data customers i dont think its coming anytime soon.
 

nealx01

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if anyone has a line on a 9990xe ill never forget you for it. 14c 5ghz ultra rare CPU. have had ebay alerts set for months and months trying to get one, but they just havent showed up. they are super rare to begin with tho
 

LFaWolf

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14nm demand is high, selling more expensive xeons with the dies that would go to the 10980xe line makes more sense. that said finally in the last 2 weeks retailers have gotten 10980xe deliveries. i got my 2nd this month. after getting a bad overclocker for my 1st in december. theres been NONE available since january. 9980xe inventory has been clearenced and is matching 10980xe msrp pricing finally. so keep an eye out for those if you want. the 4 pcie lanes isnt really a big deal between the two. otherwise theyre identical for all intents and purposes.

i dont know what to expect for whatever comes next. 10nm isnt happening with high core counts in a meaningful way to end users, and we all know the big news this week about 7.. so i dont expect much on the HEDT side from intel for a long time. maybe a 3175x refresh as thats been hinted by guys like LUUMI and Wendel from L1techs. but if demand for 14nm stays as high as it is now from the big data customers i dont think its coming anytime soon.
Which retailer are you talking about? I signed up for B&H 10980xe in stock alert and 2 weeks ago I got an email that the 10980xe is EOL and B&H will no longer order/stock them.
 

German Muscle

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Factum

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3 shops in DK have these in stock, I guess the fact that NA is 3rd on market priority now is shinning through now.
 

nealx01

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Which retailer are you talking about? I signed up for B&H 10980xe in stock alert and 2 weeks ago I got an email that the 10980xe is EOL and B&H will no longer order/stock them.
i got one from b&h last monday. i had alerts for both the boxed and tray 10980xe.. i got the same email. the boxed is "discontinued" altho ive gotten that email from the multiple times. they had the tray 10980xe instock and available i saw posts from members on overclock dot net. no warranty from b&h.
blt also has them. i checked when i ordered a 4750g pro earlier this week. i think from now on ill just use BLT for my needs. it makes more sense.if you want one you SHOULD be able to get one right now
 

lopoetve

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if anyone has a line on a 9990xe ill never forget you for it. 14c 5ghz ultra rare CPU. have had ebay alerts set for months and months trying to get one, but they just havent showed up. they are super rare to begin with tho
B&H has them for 1100
 
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