Sulphademus
Limp Gawd
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I'm planning on jumping on the cheapest 6 or 8 core which hits 4.7+.
Because it's fun!
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New Zen 2 Leak
- Thread starter DuronBurgerMan
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I'm planning on jumping on the cheapest 6 or 8 core which hits 4.7+.
Because it's fun!
compgeek89
Limp Gawd
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Exactly. We'll always do this.
Neapolitan6th
[H]ard|Gawd
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Just had a thought this morning: a 16 core AM4 CPU sure would be fun to make a DIY 2-4 gamers 1 CPU PC. (Using unraid etc)
Not very practical, but a fun thought for a family PC.
Not very practical, but a fun thought for a family PC.
I want some of what ur smokin
luminousone
Weaksauce
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Not enough PCIE lanes. 2 gamers maybe, but that would be the limit.
Pieter3dnow
Supreme [H]ardness
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AMD would like to flood consumer space with as many cores as they can in as little time as they can before Intel picks up the pace which would mean that AMD still has a fighting change on their terms ...
assuming amd does double core count, they will have an exploitable window of opportunity. Two years?
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compgeek89
Limp Gawd
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Tough to say. It's been so long since Intel has been challenged we don't know what they can do in a pinch.
IdiotInCharge
NVIDIA SHILL
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They were rumored to have eight cores on the desktop for the 10nm release, which was supposed to happen three years ago...
Intel competing would just be them getting back on track, really. And as AMD has shown a willingness to throw cores at the problem, Intel could have already made an adjustment if it were necessary. AMD really needs to get their clocks and IPC competitive if they want to have a 'window of opportunity', like they had with the Athlon and Athlon X2.
It hasn't been long. AMD has been challenging I tel for 2 years straight now with Zen. Intel has done nothing but knee jerk after knee jerk reaction ever since.
compgeek89
Limp Gawd
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I guess that's one way to look at it.
KazeoHin
[H]F Junkie
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"a cornered fox is more dangerous than a jackal..."
Boil
[H]ard|Gawd
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I believe the need for an X570 motherboard is because the Ryzen 9 CPUs need 8+4 pin power...?
The various Vega rumor threads ran for what, nine months or so...?
I literally LOL'ed..
And then you harshed my mellow...
;^p
I just want a Ryzen 5 3600 CPU & a Radeon RX 3080 GPU...
![Zarathustra[H]](https://cdn.hardforum.com/data/avatars/m/9/9298.jpg?1707758471){kind=avatar}
Zarathustra[H]
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Zarathustra[H]
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I'd argue that the 16x PCIe lanes of Ryzen is barely enough for even a single player, unless all you want is a basic bitch machine with only one PCIe card, the GPU.
The biggest problem with Ryzen (and Intel's consumer CPU's) these days is the lack of PCIe lanes. I seriously couldn't make anything less than ~40 lanes work in my single person setup.
And we know this isn't changing, because PCIe lanes are limited based on the number of CPU pins you have, and they are keeping the same AM4 socket.
Zarathustra[H]
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I want to own an AMD GPU, but they keep launching shit that isn't competitive.
If they surprise me and come out with something that beats the 2080ti at 4k I'll be happy, but until that happens, I'm stuck with Nvidia.
Boil
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The RX 3080 is supposed to be on par with the RTX 2070 (minus the Ray Tracing ability, as far as we know), with 25 watts less power draw & at half the cost...
And game-debate says a RTX 2070 will meet 109% of my needs for the predicted system requirements for GTA VI, so the RX 3080 should be just fine for that and all my other needs...
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compgeek89
Limp Gawd
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We can all hope this is true. Seems like a pipe dream for now.
luminousone
Weaksauce
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Ryzen has 20 lanes ( 24 if you count the chipset dedicated lanes). 2 8x video cards and 4x nvme if plenty for 2 VM's running only games, not much more but their ye have it.
Pieter3dnow
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Which the X370 Crosshair hero VI has already ...
Maybe my C6H will see another CPU. It is on it's third now. Pretty sure next year I will be going with a 7nm Threadripper, we will see.
Pieter3dnow
Supreme [H]ardness
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You must have an idea on what you are getting from Zen 2 based Threadripper 32 cores 64 threads ? And people still buy Intel ...
Probably go with less cores unless it comes cheap. PCIe 4.0 slots with the number of channels TR gives should last a very very long time. Whenever DDR 5 comes out, like all the previous ram standards will probably be very expensive for awhile so X499, some good DDR 4 ram will probably be a 5 year motherboard. CES 2019 is around the corner, can't wait to see what AMD is cooking.You must have an idea on what you are getting from Zen 2 based Threadripper 32 cores 64 threads ? And people still buy Intel ...
kirbyrj
Fully [H]
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I'm not so sure that the R9 products won't work on current boards. I mean an 8 core OC running full speed is pulling significantly more power from the socket than the 105W stated with the 2700x. Obviously, I wouldn't put one in a cheap A320 or a mediocre B350/450 board, but a higher end board should handle 135W.
dvsman
2[H]4U
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I wanted to consolidate some of my rigs / decommission my old 5930k workstation and switch entirely to my one single Ryzen rig but as people have already said, it's tough downsizing PCIE lanes. Though it looks like the pending death of SLI / Crossfire, might make things alot easier moving forward.
There is no pending death. Nvidia basically revived it.
Boil
[H]ard|Gawd
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Being a SFF (Small Form Factor) kinda guy, I tend to only look at ITX motherboards, so the PCI lane thing is not that big an issue...
After all, I get enough lanes to support the GPU at x16 & a M.2 NVMe SSD at x4, so I am good...!
If I need more lanes, then I am looking at Threadripper on the microATX platform...
Zarathustra[H]
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With risk of sounding like a broken record (because I've mentioned this in many threads already) my problem is that I take the old school approach to building. I don't want to rely on the motherboard an it's integrated components too much, preferring to truly customize my system with my own expansion cards.
My current build (an aging x79 hexacore i7-3930k) has a 16x GPU, two 4x PCIe SSD's, a 1x Sound Card and a 4x 10gig ethernet ethernet card (for direct link to my NAS)
My current CPU has 40 lanes, and judging by the above I guess I am using 29 of them, but I always like to have some spare expansion just in case I feel like adding something else I hadn't thought of.
I built an SFF system back in 2009 into one of those Shuttle case/Mobo combo deals using an i7-920, and what I hated most about it was the lack of flexibility to add expansion. I guess it just wasn't for me.
Now I'd love to go Threadripper, but with the latest gen you can't just get more PCIe lanes, you also have to buy more cores, so this adds more cost, and they are spread out across multiple dies, and they are often clocked lower to fit in the same thermal envelope, and you have to deal with game mode vs creative mode and all of that NUMA nonsense.
I just want an 8 core CPU, with top of the line per core performance (5+GHz on latest Intel levels of IPC) and 40+ PCIe lanes.
I don't need all these excessive core counts. I mean, I don't mind them, and I even don't mind paying for them, as long as they aren't clocked lower to deal with heat/power.
As long as a CPU is 6C/12T or more, I'll always pick higher clocks over more cores. Always. (But if I can have both, I won't complain)
Is that really too much to ask?
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compgeek89
Limp Gawd
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You just seem pretty niche. Not a big demand im that one.
Given modern motherboard designs - YES
I'm old enough to remember modding my VIC-20, so I do sympathize with your viewpoint. Unfortunately it is clear that no manufacturers agree with you.
If any did, they would build a truly expandable motherboard that had:
- 7x PCI-E x16 slots
- no onboard audio
- no onboard NIC
- no onboard WiFi
Even then manufacturers have to worry that at some point Intel/AMD will add more to the chipsets to make them more like SoC's by including audio, Ethernet, WiFi, etc. Such chipsets would basically wipe out your concept entirely (and in the process stomp companies like Realtek into the ground).
As for the CPU, there was leaked a Threadripper2 2900X spec with 8 cores. The thermal room on that should allow more overclocking headroom than the larger core counts of the 2920X/2950X. Unfortunately the 2900X hasn't been released yet and may never see the light of day if the Zen2 core counts of 16 for Ryzen3 rumors are true. Intel still has issues with their HEDT parts (spotty ECC support, overclocking not as good as i7/i9, etc.) although they are usually faster per core than equivalent AMD (position, not price).
Zarathustra[H]
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Of Realtek died in a fire, this wouldb't necessarily be a bad thing. As it stands they are the worlds biggest purveyor of junk chipsets.
Well, I hope a product like this based on Zen2 makes it to market!
Gideon
2[H]4U
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Integrated is how the tech world ticks these days. Add in cards just are not very common anymore and thats because the tech they used to integrate is much better now. I am on Ryzen and I use 1 video card for my 1080 at 16x and the NVME slot for 4x which is all I need. Motherboard has a nice Intel network card and a good sound system built in and you can even get a wifi version if you need that. It also has more usb ports then I will ever use, just dont see what add in card I would need unless I was going for more NVME drives.
Boil
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Exactly the reason I wish there were more PCIe lanes to the CPU with the AMD X-series chipsets, eight more lanes could allow two more M.2 NVMe SSDs...
And if we could get ASRock to make us an AM4 ITX motherboard without onboard video outs, they could bump the remaining I/O to one side of the rear & move over the chipset (like on the X299 ITX motherboard, which also has no onboard video outs), then we could get three M.2 NVMe SSDs on an ITX motherboard (again, like on their X299 ITX motherboard, which has two M.2 slots on the back of the motherboard...
Throw in dual 10Gb Ethernet & a few actual functioning Thunderbolt 3 ports (and I guess add more PCIe lanes to the CPU in the chipset for that, please),, and give support for 32GB DIMMs to allow 64GB RAM capacity; that would be a pretty powerful ITX motherboard...
I think you may be the one but that would buy it, that's why they don't make it. As I and a few others have said, that's why they have tr4. The bonus for you is that the tr4 chips clock the highest, so you get exactly what you want, more pcie lanes and highest single core speed.
The reality is, on am4 at least, nobody even uses all of the pcie lanes available. The .01% that need more than 40 buy tr4.
If you want 3 nvme drives on mitx, there are boards that support bifurcation allowing you to split the x16 slot into 2 x8 slots, which won't hamper anything less than a 1080ti (and even that will hardly be measurable) and give you the ability to run a couple more nvme drives. If you're after more than that, you'll sadly have to go all the way up to matx, at which point you can get all the pcie you'll need.
The reality is, to run a 1080ti or higher you'll be putting a large enough psu in that it won't be a small mitx build anyway, so you might as well go matx. Imo, once you go to full sized expansion cards mitx stops making much sense, and if you're not using a full size video card you're not going to saturate x8 anyway.
Ive also learned the hard way that building something because you might do something down the line is foolish. You waste money that way, it's cheaper to buy what you need now and then upgrade down the line when you need it because there's new and better stuff out then, and the high end stuff you were thinking about getting is a lot cheaper.
To wit, the c6h in my sig was bought as an upgrade from my prime b350ma when I decided I wanted to try pbo in my shiny new 2700x. If I'd bought the c6h at ryzen release, it would have been $270. Instead I bought the prime for $95 and got the c6h a little over a year later for $160. Exact same outcome but for $15 less and I have essentially a free b350 board because I didn't buy the c6h just in case and waited until I actually was going to use it. I used this exact logic to talk myself out of a tr4 build. I just don't need it yet, and both the boards and chips are hundreds cheaper now and will be hundreds more cheaper if/when I actually need it. The amount I could save now would almost pay for my current board and chip, so i'm already ahead by just waiting until I actually need it.
The reality is, on am4 at least, nobody even uses all of the pcie lanes available. The .01% that need more than 40 buy tr4.
If you want 3 nvme drives on mitx, there are boards that support bifurcation allowing you to split the x16 slot into 2 x8 slots, which won't hamper anything less than a 1080ti (and even that will hardly be measurable) and give you the ability to run a couple more nvme drives. If you're after more than that, you'll sadly have to go all the way up to matx, at which point you can get all the pcie you'll need.
The reality is, to run a 1080ti or higher you'll be putting a large enough psu in that it won't be a small mitx build anyway, so you might as well go matx. Imo, once you go to full sized expansion cards mitx stops making much sense, and if you're not using a full size video card you're not going to saturate x8 anyway.
Ive also learned the hard way that building something because you might do something down the line is foolish. You waste money that way, it's cheaper to buy what you need now and then upgrade down the line when you need it because there's new and better stuff out then, and the high end stuff you were thinking about getting is a lot cheaper.
To wit, the c6h in my sig was bought as an upgrade from my prime b350ma when I decided I wanted to try pbo in my shiny new 2700x. If I'd bought the c6h at ryzen release, it would have been $270. Instead I bought the prime for $95 and got the c6h a little over a year later for $160. Exact same outcome but for $15 less and I have essentially a free b350 board because I didn't buy the c6h just in case and waited until I actually was going to use it. I used this exact logic to talk myself out of a tr4 build. I just don't need it yet, and both the boards and chips are hundreds cheaper now and will be hundreds more cheaper if/when I actually need it. The amount I could save now would almost pay for my current board and chip, so i'm already ahead by just waiting until I actually need it.
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Boil
[H]ard|Gawd
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Ryzen has 24 PCIe Gen3 lanes available to the CPU; x16 for the GPU, x4 for a M.2 NVMe SSD & x4 to the chipset...
There were rumors of a X490 chipset that was supposed to add eight more PCIe Gen3 lanes to the CPU, but that faded away and it looks like the X570 chipset is sticking with the same 24 lanes...
But there is the possibility that the X570 chipset with have PCIe Gen4 lanes...!
Just as there are rumors that the Radeon RX Navi 3K series of GPUs will be PCIe Gen4...!
Hmm, do we now need a x4 PCIe Gen4 M.2 NVMe SSD from Samsung (rumors of 4TB & 8TB versions)...?!?
I can put up to 18 cores with the ASRock X299 ITX motherboard (potentially up to 16 cores with a probable Zen 2 based 7nm Ryzen 9 CPU on an X570 ITX motherboard), a full-sized GPU & a 750 watt platinum-rated SFX PSU into a 12.6 liter NCASE M1 chassis, and I can choose to air cool or full custom loop water cool it all...
Zarathustra[H]
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I don't need more than 40 lanes. I'd be happy if I could just get that though.
Ryzen has 20 lanes available direct to the CPU.
Intel's consumer line of chips have 16 lanes.
They both get a few more lanes via the chipset, but in the end they share the bandwidth of a small number of lanes from the CPU to the chipset between everything on board, and all slots run off of PCIe from the chipset. Use everything at the same time, and you are quickly going to run out of bandwidth.
Now, if you go up to intel's more professional offerings you have as many as 48 lanes... In theory. Truth is - however - that Intel artificially limits the number of PCIe lanes on the CPU's with a sane amount of cores. For the 6-8 core variants that make the most sense for a home pro-sumer (i7-7800x or i7-7820x) you are limited to only 28 lanes. Better than the 16 of the consumer line, but still wholly inadequate. If you want 40+ PCIe lanes, you need to get at least a 10 core variant, and then your clock speed drops
It's crazy to me that in 2018 Intel's offerings are worse than in 2011 when I bought my hexacore i7-3930k which overclocked to 4.8Ghz on all cores and had 40 PCIe lanes.
Then there is Threadripper. The 64 lanes it offers are awesome. In the first generation the 1900x was pretty decent. 8 cores, none of that NUMA trouble with cores on different packages, and all the lanes you'd want. Then for some crazy reason this ideal CPU disappeared from the 2xxx threadripper lineup. The lowest model is the 12 core 2920x, which thus has cores across different packages so you have to deal with game modes and all that nonsense, and for some crazy reason it's clocked LOWER than the 16 core variant. Fewer cores should allow for higher clocks, right? So, the situation got worse in the second gen of threadripper, and who the hell wants to buy last generations chip with last generations clocks and IPC?
I'm hoping AMD gets their sanity back and offer an 8 core threadripper based on zen2, binned for max clocks within the 8 core power envelope, with all 64 PCIe lanes available and all cores on the same package so it doesn't require any of that game mode / NUMA nonsense.
Zarathustra[H]
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That would be impossible whgile keeping the same socket. More PCIe lanes = more pins
Could be, I'm not counting on it yet though.
You could, but why? I thought we as a community had gotten past AMD's "throw more cores at the problem" nonsense they tried during the bulldozer era?
Even a power user is not going to have any real need for anything above 8 cores, unless there is rendering/encoding or massive numbers of VM's involved. The core count race is plain stupidity.
Boil
[H]ard|Gawd
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Just a knee jerk response to bobzdar , in reply to their thought that a full-sized high-end GPU cannot go into a SFF / ITX build...
My personal dream build would be:
ASRock B450 Gaming-ITX/ac motherboard
Ryzen 5 3600 CPU (7nm, 8c/16t, 3.6GHz base, 4.4GHz boost, 65 watts)
Noctua NH-U9S CPU heat sink w/ Noctua NF-A9 PWM fan (92mm x 25mm, mounted for horizontal airflow thru heat sink, on y-splitter with fan on rear 92mm fan slot, fed by CPU Fan Header)
Noctua NF-A9 PWM fan (92mm x 25mm, mounted to rear 92mm fan slot, on y-splitter with fan on CPU heat sink, fed by CPU Fan Header)
Noctua NF-S12A PWM fan (92mm x 25mm, on front 120mm fan slot of side bracket, set to intake, fed by Chassis Fan Header)
G.SKILL Flare X RAM (16GB, Two @ 8GB DDR4-3200 CAS 14 DIMMs)
Samsung 970 EVO SSD (500GB, 2280 M.2, x4 PCIe Gen3, NVMe)
Radeon RX 3080 GPU (7nm, Small Navi, 8GB GDDR6, 150 watts, Vega 64 +15% performance)
Raijintek Morpheus II GPU heat sink (129 fin array, six heat pipes, rated for 360 watts)
(2) Noctua NF-A12x15 PWM fans (120mm x 15mm, mounted to Morpheus heat sink, set to exhaust out bottom of chassis, fed via y-splitter to 4-pin>VGA adapter to Fan Header on GPU))
Corsair SF450 SFX PSU (450 watts, Platinum-rated)
Custom length sleeved cables for above (24-pin ATX, 8-pin EPS, 8-pin GPU)
NCASE M1 chassis (12.6 liters in volume)
And I can do it for 1500 bucks, which is pretty damned good...
BOOM...!!!
;^p
I never said it can't, just that it doesn't make much sense. Plus, the meat of that build doesn't even exist...
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