New System Built, Need Suggestions

philo-sofa

n00b
Joined
May 18, 2008
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30
I don't see how you got a 2 to 5% increase. My math shows an increase of less than 1% (around .95%) by going with faster RAM. I'll cede the fact that there is a performance increase but I do not think that the higher speed RAM warrants the higher costs for a mere 1% increase in performance.
It's probably a defintional difference - I suggest a 2-5% range of performance increases, which if you do the maths is correct. As (no disrespect dude, but it's getting a little frustrating) I've said about four times now, I agree the performanc benefit is not that huge when moving to higher speeds, my point was primarily related to the divider issue. However given that Crysis gave the maximum performance differential when not GPU limited, I'd say a 5% performance increase in demanding aps for what is (locally) about a $U30 increase for good PC2-8500 over PC2-6400 is not so bad.

After much reading I would like to hear some different view points.

I'm stuck with the 680i as i've already purchased it, so whatever. But Should I be looking to get 2x2gb or 4x2gb of ram?
I mean if i were looking at doing an SLI of two video cards do you really require SLI ram? Because I can only ever seem to find it in 2x1gb, which does not help at all when running Vista x64.
2 x 2 GB for now.

Alright, So The question of all questions, is my decision right? Should I be going with a GTS?

Lets say for a moment that money variance of a couple hundred dollars is not an issues. Should I be getting the 9800 GTX and overclock it?

and last quesiton why can i not run the 9800gx2?
The 8800 GTS 512 is the 9800 GTX - they're the same card with a different cooler.

Bear in mind that Nvidia's GT200 and ATI's 4000 series (the true new gen cards) are looking set to be released fairly soon now, so it might not be the idea time to upgrade. Assuming your local pricing is the same as it is here, I'd heartily recommend using the 8800 GT for SLI over 8800 GTS', unless you dislike cards that can get reasonably loud. I have a single GTS, which I love dearly, but the main reason I upgraded from a GT was because it's a lot quiter.

The GTS has about 20% more performance than the GT, but is about one and a half times the price (and I believe the performance difference is actually smaller when comparing two cards in SLI), so if you're price sensetive and the pricing is the same wherever you are, I'd recommend one of two things:

- Waiting until the end of June for a new next-gen card (though bear in mind these release schedules can and often so slip)
- Purchasing two 8800 GT cards and using SLI

Thank you.

Alright 2nd to last upgrade question.
Hard drives.
This is what I was thinking
1 36gig Raptor for OS
1 36gig Raptor for programs/games

Or is it better (performance wize)
2 36gig raptors in Raid 0 for OS
2 36gig raptors in raid 0 for Programs/games

Or any other variations.

**I have a dedicated server box for movies and everything else.**
+1 to Silent-Circuit's Velociraptor suggestion. Also note that RAID 0 gives an absolutely miniscule performance advantage for desktop setups. Basically it's a waste of money.
 

Showtimextx

Weaksauce
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
71
Sigh...It seems as though I should just sell the Mobo and wait untill after June to do this upgrade once the new video cards come out.

I mean by that time the q6600 should be cheaper and even perhaps ddr2 ....but then i might as well upgrade to ddr3


sigh...I have the case and the water cooling stuff so that will keep me entertained for a while, no i'm just not sure what to do :D
 

silent-circuit

[H]F Junkie
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Sep 18, 2005
Messages
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I mean by that time the q6600 should be cheaper and even perhaps ddr2 ....but then i might as well upgrade to ddr3
No! DDR3 is a total waste of money right now. It offers zero performance benefit over DDR2, but cost 3x-10x as much. Do not get a DDR3 motherboard.

At the moment it seems like DDR3 will only be worthwhile once we get a whole new platform and socket when Nehalem is released at the end of 2008/beginning of 2009 and it becomes a requirement. In fact, if DDR2 is still an option then (unlikely given that Nehalem has an integrated memory controller and so far as I know it supports DDR3 only) it may still be a better choice.
 

Dangman

Ninja Editor SuperMod
Joined
Dec 15, 2005
Messages
46,062
It's probably a defintional difference - I suggest a 2-5% range of performance increases, which if you do the maths is correct. As (no disrespect dude, but it's getting a little frustrating) I've said about four times now, I agree the performanc benefit is not that huge when moving to higher speeds, my point was primarily related to the divider issue. However given that Crysis gave the maximum performance differential when not GPU limited, I'd say a 5% performance increase in demanding aps for what is (locally) about a $U30 increase for good PC2-8500 over PC2-6400 is not so bad.
.
Ahh I see. Sorry for making you repeat everything four times now. I get your point. For you it's worth the $30 extra. However for me, it's not worth the $30 extra. To each his own. we'll let the OP decide if it's worth it to him.

Oh I concur with Silent-Circuit about DDR3 RAM. DDR3 is not needed
 

philo-sofa

n00b
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
30
Sigh...It seems as though I should just sell the Mobo and wait untill after June to do this upgrade once the new video cards come out.

I mean by that time the q6600 should be cheaper and even perhaps ddr2 ....but then i might as well upgrade to ddr3


sigh...I have the case and the water cooling stuff so that will keep me entertained for a while, no i'm just not sure what to do :D
Dude, you can get a 780i / 750i with new RAM and a WD Velociraptor now, and perhaps even get a single 8800GT if you want (I mean really, they're cheap!) to round off a pretty killer rig, before getting a new GPU come the next gen.

Truth is there's never a point in the computer upgrading cycle where there isn't something big around the corner so if you really feel the need to upgrade the graphics card too, you can certainly go for it, it's just the new cards are particularly close and this is the first real generation change since.... November 2006.
 

silent-circuit

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Truth is there's never a point in the computer upgrading cycle where there isn't something big around the corner so if you really feel the need to upgrade the graphics card too, you can certainly go for it, it's just the new cards are particularly close and this is the first real generation change since.... November 2006.
My 8800 GTXs in SLI still being arguably two of the fastest GPUs on the planet not cooled by LN2 (under water, running faster than Ultras) are proof of that. :cool:
 

philo-sofa

n00b
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
30
My 8800 GTXs in SLI still being arguably two of the fastest GPUs on the planet not cooled by LN2 (under water, running faster than Ultras) are proof of that. :cool:
Yeah man, must've been a pretty satisfying, not to mention amazing, buy - I don't think a GPU has ever been as big a leap ahead or stayed on top so long.
 

Showtimextx

Weaksauce
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
71
Thanks,

I do feel better about doing this.

At this point I feel that I do this upgrade as most likely i won't be able to afford the next generation cards when they come out anyways, although it will lower the price of the old ones so I may try and hold off as long as possible.

In the mean time I'll get some high quality ram and my processor and start the OC job.

I have to cut the roof of the cosmos 1000 tonight to fit the triple rad so i still have a bit of work to do anyways.

Your guys are great I've learned a ton so far. I'm still having a hard time picking out ram though :( and I think I do want to put a velociraptor in there just for that small performance increase.

These are the choices of ram that I have for a 4 gig system. 2x2

Corsair 4GB XMS2-8500D Dominator TWIN2X $214.95
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX20277(ME).aspx

OCZ 4GB PC2-8500 Reaper HPC 4GB $159.95
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX20232(ME).aspx

Patriot Extreme Performance Viper Series DDR2 4GB PC2-8500 $149.95
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX20231(ME).aspx


Or I could go find something on newegg although sometimes shipping kills me because i'm in Canada.
 

Showtimextx

Weaksauce
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
71
Is it not worth it to just buy 8 gigs of ram also since by the time i do need it i'll most likely have a hard time finding the same ram to match?
 

Showtimextx

Weaksauce
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May 13, 2008
Messages
71
Some guy at work is telling me I should buy a E8400 instead of the Q6600.
He said that since most games even ones in the close future don't seem to use quad core's that I should get a E8400 as he has seen them oc'ed to 4.1 stable. where as the q6600 are very mixed at getting around 3.5.

would you guys agree that since i'm only gaming i should get a dual core instead of quad and upgrade later when its actually needed?
 

onedestinazn2

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
1,256
i would get the dual core especially if your gaming. you wouldnt really make use of those 2 extra cores. you can upgrade to quad cores when the more expensive ones are cheaper
 

silent-circuit

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Some guy at work is telling me I should buy a E8400 instead of the Q6600.
He said that since most games even ones in the close future don't seem to use quad core's that I should get a E8400 as he has seen them oc'ed to 4.1 stable. where as the q6600 are very mixed at getting around 3.5.

would you guys agree that since i'm only gaming i should get a dual core instead of quad and upgrade later when its actually needed?
No. Above ~3Ghz it really doesn't offer any return. All the people running their E8400s at 4.0, 4.1, 4.2, 4.3Ghz are getting no performance increase over ~3.2Ghz, it's just an epeen thing.

A Q6600 is pretty much guaranteed to 3.2Ghz -- though of course it like anything is luck of the draw and you could get a bad chip (same deal with the E8400 of course). Most will go to 3.4 or 3.5Ghz. Many will go to 3.6Ghz, and a few, higher, though rarely on air cooling. You don't generally get much higher on water vs. air, just cooler temps. Phase and similar are necessary in most cases to break ~3.8Ghz. My chip tops out at 3.8Ghz, but I have a very "good" one.

Again, doesn't really matter, because after 3.0-3.2Ghz it's all gravy. The other two cores will allow you to multitask and not worry as much about background processes, and some titles will use them currently (Supreme Commander, and I believe World in Conflict; mostly RTS) with many more in the future. Considering the price difference, I would never buy an E8400.

It's fair to say this is something of a "holy war" (saw someone use this the other day and found it disturbingly accurate) around here, the Q6600 guys vs. the E8400 guys, so it's not perfectly clear cut, but if you don't intend to upgrade to Nehalem pretty much immediately when it is released or a couple months after, I'd get the quad.
 

silent-circuit

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$82 with no rebate on Newegg gets you 5-5-5-15 rated A-Data or G.Skill sticks. Most will likely do 4-4-4-12 with a bit more voltage. No reason to spend more than's necessary there. EDIT: Forgot -- Canadian. That should be fine, but if you can find a cheaper kit, go with it. Won't matter.

8GB probably won't do much of anything. If you get 4GB and end up feeling it isn't enough (Vista will "use" it so don't go by that, go by actual performance after ~1-2 weeks, which the caching and such is finished) you can always get more.
 

philo-sofa

n00b
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
30
I have to say I'm a little more ambivalent about the Dual vs Quad thing - in my experience it's the case that going above 3.0 returns quite large benefits, and that's all the more true when dealing with SLI. At 3.8GHz my PC is noticably faster in general, and Crysis.. well, it actually works!

Then admittedly there is the epeen factor ;)

That having been said, the Q6600 is a great chip - and if you're looking to have something that'll last for a few years, a Quad is defiantely a smart buy - apps will start making use of these properly withing the next 12 months IMO, with watercoolign you should be able to get above 3.2 if you wish, so I'd go with a Q6600.

If you're price sensetive and are going for a Q6600, get those Mushkin 2 x 2 GB PC6400 CL4's (still no point to 8GB!) and save up for a next gen card.
 

Showtimextx

Weaksauce
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May 13, 2008
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Does anyone have some good likes on drive setup.
aka 1 drive for everything vs 2 drives one for os one for programs, is it worth it?
 

risqu3

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
1,267
hey there,

i currently have 2 Seagate 7200.11 500gb drives in RAID-0 On my maximus.

I run them in partitions so the data i need is always available easily, and is catogarized for speed.

My first partition is the OS, being on the very outter tracks its 80GB in size, followed by a 250gb partition for games, and another 250gb partition for all my downloads. i have another 250gb partition left and, i'm thinking of deleting it and making it Raid 1, and putting my sensitive documents in there. I have another 500gb 7200.10 barracuda ES (server drive) for my documents and backup of my raid so incase something happens, i just pop in norton, and get my entire drive back.

Hope that helped you, and sorry for it being very messy :p
 

Showtimextx

Weaksauce
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
71
Just recieved my swiftech water blocks along with my EK mosfet water blocks.

Question: the EK blocks came with a thermal tape? Should I use Arctic silver instead of this thermal tape or is the thermal tape the stuff i should use?
 

silent-circuit

[H]F Junkie
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Messages
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The tape is probably required to make contact with the mosfets. They can be more easily damaged with pressure than most things, so many blocks don't use direct contact.

Do not use arctic silver on /anything/ but the CPU /ever/ -- it is slightly conductive and could kill the board if used on something with an exposed die, or chips that're small with legs that could easily be bridged by spill-over. Use MX-2 or Ceramique for GPUs, mosfets, northbridge and southbridge chips, etc.
 

Showtimextx

Weaksauce
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
71
So ram just went on sale at the shop by me

Crucial Ballistic X Tracer 4gb pc2-6400 4-4-4-12 $85 after mail in rebate
Corsair Dominator 4gb sms2-8500D 5-5-5-18 $150 after mail in rebate.

Still looking to buy a Q6600 But i would also like to be able to upgrade that later down the road.
Which ram should I buy?
 

Dangman

Ninja Editor SuperMod
Joined
Dec 15, 2005
Messages
46,062
The DDR2 800 RAM. You don't need anything faster, even if you are planning on overclocking with the Q6600.
 
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