New System Built, Need Suggestions

Showtimextx

Weaksauce
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Cosmos 1000 Case
Liquid Cooled CPU, NB, VGA, Mosfet
Evga 680i A1 Motherboard.

Now I'm looking at purchasing a Q6600 G0 because of the over clocking potential I read about. What memory should I look at purchasing in order to get max out of the system with this type of setup. I'm going to use Vista x64 Ultimate.
 

Wshmaster0

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2x2gb DDR2 8500

Best bang for your buck...

there are nice g.skills on newegg that are great
 

Showtimextx

Weaksauce
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What about if I was looking to do 8gig's could i simply just buy two sets of the g.skills and my system would be happy?
 

silent-circuit

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You only need DDR2-800 with a Q6600. That's good to 3.6Ghz, which is about where they top out, and most quality RAM will OC at least a bit. No reason to waste money on anything further.

Why would you ever need 8GB of RAM? Lots of VMs or something? Also, running a 680i, good luck getting stable with a high clocked quad and all 4 RAM slots populated...
 

philo-sofa

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You only need DDR2-800 with a Q6600. That's good to 3.6Ghz, which is about where they top out, and most quality RAM will OC at least a bit. No reason to waste money on anything further.

Why would you ever need 8GB of RAM? Lots of VMs or something? Also, running a 680i, good luck getting stable with a high clocked quad and all 4 RAM slots populated...
Yeah +1... the OP should maybe aim for 3.2GHz with 2 x 2GB of memory. Not sure what's cheap wherever you are, but 1066 would allow you to operate at 3 x 356 = 1068MHz, which ais a good speed and divider. However TBH the performance benefit of that over 2.4 x 356 = 854MHz is really small.
 

silent-circuit

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Yeah +1... the OP should maybe aim for 3.2GHz with 2 x 2GB of memory. Not sure what's cheap wherever you are, but 1066 would allow you to operate at 3 x 356 = 1068MHz, which ais a good speed and divider. However TBH the performance benefit of that over 2.4 x 356 = 854MHz is really small.
...where are you getting these numbers?

1:1 divider, RAM to FSB is ideal. DDR2-800, 400Mhz real on the RAM. 1:1 divider (linked and synced in Nvidia BIOS-speak), 400Mhz FSB x 9 (Q6600 multiplier) = 3600, or 3.6Ghz on the CPU.

There is no advantage to running RAM outside of a 1:1 ratio, so for any speed up to 3.6Ghz DDR2-800 is all you need. Really, for any speed up to ~3.8Ghz which is around the top end for even the best of the best Q6600s on anything save phase change, DDR2-800 with a mild OC is all you need. Almost any solid kit of DDR2-800 will do DDR2-850.

Note that I'm not saying it won't bench higher -- it will. It just won't ever do anything outside of memory benches.
 

import

[H]ard|Gawd
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why not get the q6700 if you want big numbers.
its 10x vs. 9x, allowing for a lower fsb, and cooler temps. plus, all are g0.
mine is at 3.0 at 1.26v. not a big o/c, but thats a lower voltage than the stock 2.66 uses.
im on air, and at 3.0, it idles at <35c... under load it doesnt see anything over 52c.
the room for more overclocking is huge.
 

silent-circuit

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why not get the q6700 if you want big numbers.
its 10x vs. 9x, allowing for a lower fsb, and cooler temps. plus, all are g0.
mine is at 3.0 at 1.26v. not a big o/c, but thats a lower voltage than the stock 2.66 uses.
im on air, and at 3.0, it idles at <35c... under load it doesnt see anything over 52c.
the room for more overclocking is huge.
Because they cost more and the 10x multi is useless; they top out around the exact same range that Q6600s do, and most (though admittedly not /all/) boards can do 400Mhz real FSB (1600Mhz quad pumped) with relative ease.

Any Q6600 you buy online from any of the usual retailers at this point is going to be a G0.
 

philo-sofa

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...where are you getting these numbers?

1:1 divider, RAM to FSB is ideal. DDR2-800, 400Mhz real on the RAM. 1:1 divider (linked and synced in Nvidia BIOS-speak), 400Mhz FSB x 9 (Q6600 multiplier) = 3600, or 3.6Ghz on the CPU.

There is no advantage to running RAM outside of a 1:1 ratio, so for any speed up to 3.6Ghz DDR2-800 is all you need. Really, for any speed up to ~3.8Ghz which is around the top end for even the best of the best Q6600s on anything save phase change, DDR2-800 with a mild OC is all you need. Almost any solid kit of DDR2-800 will do DDR2-850.

Note that I'm not saying it won't bench higher -- it will. It just won't ever do anything outside of memory benches.
Not quite true - 1:1 is the best divider without doubt, but 3:2 is very effective (and 2:1 even more so) bandwidth benches do support this point. As far as I'm aware it's a little over the top to say there's 'no benefit' to moving beyond a 1:1 divider.

Being unsure of how the OP feels about more extreme overclocking, I'm suggesting 3.2GHz as a goal, and gave an efficient divider ratio and the associated memory speed required to use it, while agreeing with you that, at the end of the day, memory speed isn't of huge benefit.
 

Dangman

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Not quite true - 1:1 is the best divider without doubt, but 3:2 is very effective (and 2:1 even more so) bandwidth benches do support this point. As far as I'm aware it's a little over the top to say there's 'no benefit' to moving beyond a 1:1 divider.
I think he meant no benefit in real world apps to moving beyond a 1:1 ratio. I've only seen sythnthetic benchmark scores go up beyond a 1:1 ratio.
 

philo-sofa

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I think he meant no benefit in real world apps to moving beyond a 1:1 ratio. I've only seen sythnthetic benchmark scores go up beyond a 1:1 ratio.
Ok, I see I'm gonna have to try and prove my point -

Once again, I agree the performance benefits in RL to increased memory speeds are not that huge, but they are there, and with the advent of moderately priced PC2-8500 it's not actually that expensive to get the extra perfromance.

As far as dividers go, here's a quick comparison of 1:1 vs 3:2, it's reltaively old, but as far as dividers go the point stands:








Or from 1:1 to 5:4:



So we're talking about a 2-5% increase in real world performance - which is in line with there being a significant, if not gargantuan increase, given that memory has tended not to be a bottleneck for a while; 2-3% is not huge. I feel this demonstrates that moving up from the 1:1 'golden ratio' can yield significant performance benefits, in the context of the potential effect of faster memory being fairly small.

Which brings me back to my original point; cheap PC2-8500 can make high mem speeds quite worthwhile, and remember there's always the potential for tighter timings on top of higher speeds.
 

Showtimextx

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I would like to get every little bit out of this system, I also would not like to close my doors to any upgrades in the future, I originally looked at the 780i but the cost of DDR3 + new board was way outside my limits.

As i'm doing everything with water I would like to max out this system as much as possible. if that is a 1:1 or something Higher I would like to know and give it a try.
 

philo-sofa

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The 780i is a DDR2 board, the 790i is DDR3. The 780i is not a huge overclocker, but would be fine for a Q6600 AFAIK (~450MHz FSB), look into this again dude.

If you want to max out your system, I'd go with what silent-circuit suggested - i.e. a 400FSB x 9 = 3600 (though that is fairly high 3.9GHz isn't unheard of).. That suggests a good speed would be either 800MHz on a 1:1 divider or 1000MHz via a 5:4 RAM divider. If you want to max out the memory go for 1GHz, meaning any RAM that can reach 1GHz, eg D9 modules or DDR2-1000 / DDR2-1066 memory, would be ideal. If you're really keen you could get some good RAM you think you can hit 1GHz with on CL4 timings - just don't pay much beyond the price of normal DDR2-1000!

With a 780i there is also the 'asynchronous mode' for memory which allows you to just set a desired memory speed without messing around with dividers. Unfortunately as it actually uses a whoel bunch of 'hidden' dividers, it's a little pointless, so if you get a 780i, stick with synchronous mode for memory.

[/spiel]
 

silent-circuit

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The EVGA 750i FTW is probably the best option for a SLI board that runs DDR2 right now, if you can deal with 4 SATA ports.

Sticking with the 680i, you may run in to problems depending on the revision of the board in question, as well as a certain measure of just pure blind luck.
 

Showtimextx

Weaksauce
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Ok, what about this for a question. What is the best processor I could purchase for the evga 680i under $500 that will oc well.
 

fromeo85

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I would go with the Q6600

it OCs well, perhaps some muskin ddr2-800, once you get to 3.2 with the quad thats really all you will need, i mean obviously if you can get higher go for it, but I think 3.2 is solid with that chip
 

Showtimextx

Weaksauce
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After much reading I would like to hear some different view points.

I'm stuck with the 680i as i've already purchased it, so whatever. But Should I be looking to get 2x2gb or 4x2gb of ram?
I mean if i were looking at doing an SLI of two video cards do you really require SLI ram? Because I can only ever seem to find it in 2x1gb, which does not help at all when running Vista x64.
 

Dangman

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Ok, I see I'm gonna have to try and prove my point -
I don't see how you got a 2 to 5% increase. My math shows an increase of less than 1% (around .95%) by going with faster RAM. I'll cede the fact that there is a performance increase but I do not think that the higher speed RAM warrants the higher costs for a mere 1% increase in performance.

@ OP:
No, you don't need SLI RAM. It's more or less a marketing gimmick as far as I can tell. If you want the highest OC possible, stick with 2x2GB of RAM. If you have actually have a need for 8GB of RAM (virtualization apps, ram disk, photoshop, heavy video editing, not games), then go for 8GB then.

Also, can't you return the 680i mobo? IIRC, that particular 680i mobo didn't do too well when it came to overclocking quad-core CPUs. It did fine with dual-core CPUs but not quad-cores.
 

Showtimextx

Weaksauce
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Danny;

I bought the board used on this board. I was trying to copy the Maximum PC Dream Machine 2007, since now i can afford that stuff :D

I though it was interesting that you mentioned that I only need 4 gigs of ram if i'm going to be mostly gaming, this is going to be a pure gaming pc thats all I'm going to do, I mean i'll use paint ever now and then :) but thats about it.

I usually just play Battle Field 2 but would like to be able to play the new battle field 2 that is comming out along with the new Valve game Left for dead...besides from those two....not much else.

ok so 2x2gb I should get the pc2-8500 stuff
 

Dangman

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Man I hate that website. Any site that lists parts by their after rebate price are total dicks/assholes/scumbags IMO.

Anyway, that RAM is not a good choice. The performance increase with DDR2 1066 RAM does not warrant the higher costs IMO. Plus if you stick with a 1:1 ratio, any set of DDR2 800 RAM will do. So try to find a cheaper DDR2 800 RAM set.
 

Showtimextx

Weaksauce
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Yea, thats the only good computer place we have around :(

Alright deal.

now for a really dumb question. I'm not able to get a 9800gx2 card (if i had the cash right) because it requires pci-e 2.0 and the board only has .....pci-e is this correct or incorrect?
 

Dangman

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now for a really dumb question. I'm not able to get a 9800gx2 card (if i had the cash right) because it requires pci-e 2.0 and the board only has .....pci-e is this correct or incorrect?
Incorrect. PCI-E 2.0 is backwards compatible with PCI-E 1.1, which the 680i mobo has. So you can get the 9800GX2 if you want to. It'll be a long time before PCI-E 2.0 is actually needed.
 

Showtimextx

Weaksauce
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Alright good to know.

So to continue the update.
evga 680i
4g DDR2 800
Q6600

Video card time. I want an upgrade path on this, ie: so i can add a future card later. Should I get the 9800GX2 I have a 24" dell monitor and would love to play games like hl2 and bf2 at full everything on the 24"

Or should I go with one of the ATI dual core video cards.
 

Dangman

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Neither. Since you have a 680i mobo, unfortunately as many people have pointed out, might as well take advantage of the SLI features right?

So go with either 9800GTX SLI, 8800GTS 512MB SLI or 8800GT SLI. Any of those choices will match the 9800GX2 in performance. Only get the 9800GTX SLI if you can get both cards for under $600. You should be able to find the 8800GTS SLI for under $500 and 8800GT SLI for under $400.

Also SLI only works with Nvidia cards, not ATI cards. 9800GX2 Quad SLI does not provide a significant enough performance increase to warrant the price.
 

Showtimextx

Weaksauce
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Dan, your a wealth of knowledge I thank you.
So, if what I'm understand is true, your saying i should buy two video cards (aka sli?) Or perhaps i don't understand what SLI means. Does the order from best to ....least best go GTX GTS, GT?


PS: I just recieved my D5 pump and my 5 1/4 dual bay Danger Den Res...the res is very very nice looking they did a great job making it, I hope it looks as good installed as it does just sitting here :D
I'll take some pictures tonight, the ones they have on their website do no justice.
 

Showtimextx

Weaksauce
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Did some reading and I think I'll try and get a 8800GTS 512 SLI should I stick with evga for brand?

eVGA e-GeForce 8800 GTS 512MB Regular Price $259.95
 

silent-circuit

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XFX or EVGA. Stay away from BFG -- they are not OCer friendly. EVGA is probably the best plan, as if the new cards coming out in ~a month are really good you can use Step Up on both your 8800 GTS 512MBs and sell one of the new cards to offset the cost, and have better/equal performance from a single card without any of the potential SLI scaling issues, plus just generally newer tech.
 

Showtimextx

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Alright, So The question of all questions, is my decision right? Should I be going with a GTS?

Lets say for a moment that money variance of a couple hundred dollars is not an issues. Should I be getting the 9800 GTX and overclock it?

and last quesiton why can i not run the 9800gx2?
 

Dangman

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There's no physical or technological reason why you can't run the 9800GX2. However there is a price to performance reason why you should not get a 9800GX2. Simply put, two 8800GTS 512MB perform about the same as a 9800GX2 but the costs of two 8800GTS 512MB cards is substantially lower than a 9800GX2.

The 9800GTX is faster than the 8800GTS 512MB, but not by much. It does use a little bit less energy. However it is one of the faster single GPU video cards out there. So if you want high performance, then get 9800GTX SLI. It will beat the 9800GX2 and you can find two of them for $600, around the same price as the 9800GX2 you found.

But from a price to performance perspective, the 8800GTS 512MB is the better choice. It's a good balance. Here in the stats, MSI 8800GTS 512MB cards go as low as $210.
 

Showtimextx

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Thank you.

Alright 2nd to last upgrade question.
Hard drives.
This is what I was thinking
1 36gig Raptor for OS
1 36gig Raptor for programs/games

Or is it better (performance wize)
2 36gig raptors in Raid 0 for OS
2 36gig raptors in raid 0 for Programs/games

Or any other variations.

**I have a dedicated server box for movies and everything else.**
 

silent-circuit

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Do you have the Raptors already? Because if you don't, the performance gain over any modern 7200RPM drive is an absolute joke. Do not bother with them. They're loud, then run hot, and they simply aren't worthwhile anymore.

The new "VelociRaptor" 300GB (~$300) is at least faster than the 7200RPM drives, but only just. It gets you faster access times, but that's about it at the end of the day.

Games will load a bit faster, and that's it. Not even close to worth the money in my opinion. A single $120 750GB Samsung F1 7200RPM is all I'd go with. That, or one of the new WD 640GB AAKS 7200RPM drives, which run ~$160 last I checked.
 
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