New products today!

[Terpfen]

Offer more video cards. It's difficult to justify spending that much money on something that isn't going to last me. Otherwise i'd buy one in a heartbeat.

They just did that. If you're in the market for bleeding edge gaming, you're not in the market for a Mac. It's going to be that way for the foreseeable future.

You're missing the point.

No, I'm telling you that the components that go into an iMac are different than those that go into a Mac Pro. No nvidia chipset = no Core i CPU plus nvidia GPU. Intel's lawsuit does not prevent an nvidia GPU from being used with an Intel chipset, but Apple specifically migrated to nvidia chipsets with their last product refresh. Ergo, problem.

The macbooks graphics are integrated. It's a different situation

Again: the iMac is engineered internally like a notebook. The iMac and the MacBook (Pro) lines are similar. The iMac and the Mac Pro lines are not.

Why the nvidia GTX mobility cards!

The 4850, either desktop or Mobility, outperforms the GTX 260M. I haven't seen final benchmarks on the 280M, but I'm pretty sure the heat output would be a bigger negative than the performance bump would be a plus.

 

[mrgstiffler]

No, I'm telling you that the components that go into an iMac are different than those that go into a Mac Pro. No nvidia chipset = no Core i CPU plus nvidia GPU. Intel's lawsuit does not prevent an nvidia GPU from being used with an Intel chipset, but Apple specifically migrated to nvidia chipsets with their last product refresh. Ergo, problem.

I'm sorry, but that's 100% wrong. A PCI Express interface is a PCI Express interface, no matter what chipset or GPU is used. There's nothing stopping Apple from using an nvidia GPU with their i7 systems.

Since you don't understand this, check out Alienware laptops for proof. They have i7 notebooks with GTX 260M GPUs.

 

[Archer75]

They just did that. If you're in the market for bleeding edge gaming, you're not in the market for a Mac. It's going to be that way for the foreseeable future.

I didn't say bleeding edge. I don't care about that. I just want to play current games with settings maxed and getting a decent frame rate. The 4850 isn't going to cut it at that resolution.

No nvidia chipset = no Core i CPU plus nvidia GPU. Intel's lawsuit does not prevent an nvidia GPU from being used with an Intel chipset, but Apple specifically migrated to nvidia chipsets with their last product refresh. Ergo, problem.

Apple uses an Intel chipset in the 27" imac. Therefore they can indeed use Nvidia graphics. You do not need an nvidia chipset to use nvidia video cards. Thus the lawsuit is not relevent here.

imac or mac pro makes no difference. Both use Intel chipsets. The mac pro also has nvidia cards. The imac can also have nvidia cards.

Again, not having an nvidia chipset means nothing. It is not needed to run nvidia video cards.

 

[Terpfen]

I didn't say bleeding edge. I don't care about that. I just want to play current games with settings maxed and getting a decent frame rate. The 4850 isn't going to cut it at that resolution.

Solution: plug your gaming PC into the video in jack. Second solution: don't maintain unrealistic expectations.

Apple uses an Intel chipset in the 27" imac. Therefore they can indeed use Nvidia graphics. You do not need an nvidia chipset to use nvidia video cards. Thus the lawsuit is not relevent here.

Actually, we don't know what chipset the iMac uses. The iFixit teardown did not show or disclose the chipset, just the CPU and GPU.

 

[jnash]

I want that 27" iMac soooo bad im trying to find an excuse to buy one but I cant lol

 

[Archer75]

Solution: plug your gaming PC into the video in jack. Second solution: don't maintain unrealistic expectations.

Why the hell would I buy a 27" imac just to plug a PC into it?

How can we expect change if we do not ask for it? If enough people voice their wants a company may very well listen.

Actually, we don't know what chipset the iMac uses. The iFixit teardown did not show or disclose the chipset, just the CPU and GPU.

Actually we do know. The 27" core i imacs can't use an nvidia chipset so that leaves Intel. I'm not aware of any AMD or Via socket 1156 or P55 based chipsets, are you?

 

[GTIZI]

I called macmall the other day, and they did not know much about the machines.
apple is apparently holding back on the 27" models, and will not be shipping till after the first week of November

 

[Terpfen]

Why the hell would I buy a 27" imac just to plug a PC into it?

The same reason anyone else would buy a 27'' 2560x1600 display. Right now the 27'' iMac is one of only a handful of LED-backlit S-IPS panels on the market.

How can we expect change if we do not ask for it? If enough people voice their wants a company may very well listen.

They did listen. The iMac line's GPUs were upgraded.

Actually we do know. The 27" core i imacs can't use an nvidia chipset so that leaves Intel. I'm not aware of any AMD or Via socket 1156 or P55 based chipsets, are you?

Yes, it leaves Intel as the only option on the as-yet-unshipped Core i models. You can't get a Core i-using iMac and an nvidia GPU. You can only get an nvidia GPU with a Core 2 or an ATi GPU with a Core i.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the model which uses a Core i5/i7 does not have an nvidia GPU.

 

[cdzone]

When does ATi come up with a daughterboard reference design for the 5000 series?, when can Apple update the iMac to take advantage of that? anyone expect?

 

[cdzone]

The fighting of Intel vs nVidia is about the license for motherboard chipset QPI/DMI/FSB, not the standalone GPU exactly. Since nVidia produced a motherboard chipset "nForce" chipset that related with integrated GPU on the nForce named board, this nForce is now in the problem. nVidia cannot make a new nForce motherboard chipset for Core i5/ i7 CPU. However nVidia GPU for a video card is not in the problem. Additionally, since the new 27-inch iMac with Core i5/ i7 models uses Desktop CPU and plus a Standalone MXM formfactor video card, this is not the reason why Apple don't use nVidia GPU now in the models. If Apple want to use a Standalone nVidia videocard, Apple can use it right now. So, many people wish Apple iMac use more greater videocard like ATI HD58XX or nVidia GTX2XX than ATI HD4850.

 

[Terpfen]

When does ATi come up with a daughterboard reference design for the 5000 series?, when can Apple update the iMac to take advantage of that? anyone expect?

Your guess is as good as ours. Probably not until next Spring. Does ATi even publish a Mobility Radeon roadmap?

However nVidia GPU for a video card is not in the problem.

No one claimed it was. We're talking about whether or not Apple should or could have offered nvidia's GTX 280M in the top-end iMac with a Core i5 or i7. Apple only offers the Radeon 4850 with the Core i5/i7 27'' iMac, and only offers the nvidia 9400M on the low-end 21'' iMac with the Core 2. I'm saying it's not a coincidence that Apple is not offering an nvidia GPU with the Core i5/i7, but is offering an nvidia GPU with the Core 2.

Regardless, it's likely a pointless argument, because the 4850, whether it's a desktop 4850 or a Mobility 4850, outperforms the GTX 260M and very likely is competitive with the GTX 280M while consuming less power and generating less heat. This would negate Archer75's assertion that Apple could have or should have upgraded the iMac's GPUs even further. But we need benchmarks to confirm the 4850's competitiveness with the GTX 280M, and there aren't any that I've seen.

 

[Unknown-One]

Ok, I gotta ask, what's the deal with the magic mouse?

The demo video shows off Left Click, Right Click, Scroll (horizontal and vertical), Forward, Back, and zoom (when a keyboard key is held down).

My old 5 button mouse does all that, and it also has a middle click (which the magic mouse appears to lack). The magic mouse just seems like a giant waste of development time; additional complexity with no added benefits.

 

[Terpfen]

Ok, I gotta ask, what's the deal with the magic mouse?

It lets you do multitouch gestures on a desktop Mac. Before its release you could only do gestures on a MacBook or the iPhone.

 

[Conquest3.0]

Im in for a Magic Mouse when its Win7 Capable...

 

[cdzone]

Your guess is as good as ours. Probably not until next Spring. Does ATi even publish a Mobility Radeon roadmap?



No one claimed it was. We're talking about whether or not Apple should or could have offered nvidia's GTX 280M in the top-end iMac with a Core i5 or i7. Apple only offers the Radeon 4850 with the Core i5/i7 27'' iMac, and only offers the nvidia 9400M on the low-end 21'' iMac with the Core 2. I'm saying it's not a coincidence that Apple is not offering an nvidia GPU with the Core i5/i7, but is offering an nvidia GPU with the Core 2.

Regardless, it's likely a pointless argument, because the 4850, whether it's a desktop 4850 or a Mobility 4850, outperforms the GTX 260M and very likely is competitive with the GTX 280M while consuming less power and generating less heat. This would negate Archer75's assertion that Apple could have or should have upgraded the iMac's GPUs even further. But we need benchmarks to confirm the 4850's competitiveness with the GTX 280M, and there aren't any that I've seen.

So, do you think HD4850 Mobile has greater 3D power than GTX260M, and almost as equal 3D power as GTX280M? Could you tell me where I can see the benchmark that have done by a reputational reviewer?

 

[cdzone]

Im in for a Magic Mouse when its Win7 Capable...

Wow. please tell me,

Q1: Does "middle button function" exists in the Magic Mouse on Windows 7?

Q2: Are you using the Magic Mouse on Windows 7 in a generic PC, or in a Mac computer by using the bootcamp, or in the VirtualMachine on Mac OS X?


P.S. "middle button function" is very important for me, because I am doing CAD, Solidworks, and Alias Autostudio.

 

[MattyC]

I haven't been able to get a Magic Mouse yet to play around with. Both of the local Apple stores only have them with iMacs now. It is a great mouse from what I could tell playing around with it in the store, but since I wasn't able to buy one I haven't been able to see what all it will do under Windows.

Unknown, it is sort of like having a mouse with a touchpad on top of it, if that makes sense. If you aren't interested in one then don't get it. I personally think it is quite cool.

 

[Terpfen]

So, do you think HD4850 Mobile has greater 3D power than GTX260M, and almost as equal 3D power as GTX280M? Could you tell me where I can see the benchmark that have done by a reputational reviewer?

There aren't any GTX 280M benchmarks that I've seen, at least none that include either the desktop or Mobility 4850 in the suite. One of the only comparisons of the 260M to the 4850 is right here, where the 4850 outperforms the 260M in 3dMark.

Benchmarks of mobile GPUs are few and far between. Enthusiast sites like [H] are more concerned with desktop parts.

 

[cdzone]

Is it possible to use HD4850 Mobile chip on a generic MXM daughter board form factor? Does it exists?

 

[Terpfen]

Is it possible to use HD4850 Mobile chip on a generic MXM daughter board form factor? Does it exists?

Probably not.

 

[cdzone]

Probably not.

However, according to the link that you wrote, GTX260M which is mobile chip is on the MXM board. And oppositely, can a desktop HD4850 chip be used on the MXM type board?

 

[Terpfen]

However, according to the link that you wrote, GTX260M which is mobile chip is on the MXM board. And oppositely, can a desktop HD4850 chip be used on the MXM type board?

Got no idea. Someone more familiar with notebook GPUs will have to answer your questions.

 

[Unknown-One]

It lets you do multitouch gestures on a desktop Mac. Before its release you could only do gestures on a MacBook or the iPhone.

Gestures like what? They don't even make use of the "pinch" gesture for zoom, they require you to hold a modifier key on the keyboard.

The demo video on Apple's website shows that it's actually slightly less functional than a standard 5-button mouse (lack of middle-click). What's the up side to it?

 

[Terpfen]

Gestures like what? They don't even make use of the "pinch" gesture for zoom, they require you to hold a modifier key on the keyboard.

Pinch to zoom is the only gesture missing, IIRC. The rest, such as multi-finger swipe and scroll, are present.

If you're asking what multitouch gestures OS X supports in the first place, this is a decent list, though not comprehensive.

 

[Unknown-One]

Pinch to zoom is the only gesture missing, IIRC. The rest, such as multi-finger swipe and scroll, are present.

If you're asking what multitouch gestures OS X supports in the first place, this is a decent list, though not comprehensive.

All of the worthwhile gestures there have equivalents on a normal mouse... I'm really struggling to see how the Magic Mouse improves things here.

Touch gestures are great when all you have available to you for user input is a touchscreen, they let you use extra fingers and motions to make up for the lack of physical buttons. Putting a touch interface on the back of a mouse, however, goes completely against the general design philosophy for both technologies.

Think about it for a second; a touch surface needs to be stationary so that objects can move along its surface, while a mouse is designed to be as easy to move as possible. So right off the bat there's a conflict. You either have to make the mouse harder to move (bad for general mouse use) or you force the user to hold the mouse in place, in some fashion, in order to use the touch features.

The Magic Mouse also forces users to change modes between grasping the mouse for pointer movement, and hovering over the mouse for touch input, slowing down workflow. A normal 5 button mouse has all of its buttons directly under the fingertips at all times, giving immediate access to all functions.

Now, besides the design issues, there's also the sheer pointlessness of it all. A 5 button mouse has 5 buttons as well as a scroll wheel. This is the same number of potential inputs the magic mouse has (5 fingers), though because you have to hold the mouse in place (and because the surface is so small), using 5 fingers is almost never an option for it. The obvious handicap this has left the Magic Mouse with, is that it doesn't appear to have any middle-click - not only does it not add any functionality, it removes some.

Feel free to point out a touch gesture you can do on the magic mouse that can't be replicated on a 5-button mouse. I'm quite curious if there is one.

 

[caleb2001r]

Do you guys think they could make improvements to the functionality of the magic mouse without changing the hardware, or am I dreaming to expect any improvements to it after it begins shipping?

I don't really know what kind of things they would/could add, but maybe software/firmware upgrades could add additional features in the future.

Edit: I canceled my order for one (Magic Mouse). On second thought, I think I'd rather get some reviews before I invest in it. As well, I'm thinking I can eventually get a better deal (and not pay tax) through Amazon.

 

[EnderW]

Do you guys think they could make improvements to the functionality of the magic mouse without changing the hardware, or am I dreaming to expect any improvements to it after it begins shipping?

I don't really know what kind of things they would/could add, but maybe software/firmware upgrades could add additional features in the future.

Edit: I canceled my order for one (Magic Mouse). On second thought, I think I'd rather get some reviews before I invest in it. As well, I'm thinking I can eventually get a better deal (and not pay tax) through Amazon.

I used one for a few minutes in the apple store and I was NOT impressed. It is not comfortable, not ergonomic at all, the gesture feel gimmicky and are not natural movements for me. I'd take just about any logitech mouse over it.

 

[persisting1]

Think about it for a second; a touch surface needs to be stationary so that objects can move along its surface, while a mouse is designed to be as easy to move as possible. So right off the bat there's a conflict. You either have to make the mouse harder to move (bad for general mouse use) or you force the user to hold the mouse in place, in some fashion, in order to use the touch features.

This is the first thing I thought of when I watched the video. I guess I'll have to find out first hand.

 

[Terpfen]

All of the worthwhile gestures there have equivalents on a normal mouse... I'm really struggling to see how the Magic Mouse improves things here.

Congratulations, you get to save 60 bucks. Meanwhile, Apple desktop users get multitouch. If you don't see a point to this, that's fine, but simultaneously, it's not necessary to sit there and write five paragraphs denigrating the technology as completely useless. Not everyone wants to program their MX Revolution for every single app they own.

Do you guys think they could make improvements to the functionality of the magic mouse without changing the hardware, or am I dreaming to expect any improvements to it after it begins shipping?

I would imagine it's possible a firmware update would add pinch to zoom. Then again, the fact that it's not there in the first place means the sensors might not be able to pick up on the motion through the mouse's shell.

 

[elleana]

I would imagine it's possible a firmware update would add pinch to zoom. Then again, the fact that it's not there in the first place means the sensors might not be able to pick up on the motion through the mouse's shell.

If the technology is available for the iPhone through the LCD screen, no reason why it can't be implemented through the casing of a mouse.

 

[jeremyshaw]

If the technology is available for the iPhone through the LCD screen, no reason why it can't be implemented through the casing of a mouse.

I'm not sure what than meant.

The post you responded to implies the mouse might not have such technology.

 

[Tomahawk]

I bought a new iMac over the weekend, so I've had a couple of days to use the new Magic Mouse. I like it. I've been using an Apple notebook daily for the last 3 or 4 years, so the gestures do not feel gimmicky to me at all. They're already a natural part of my workflow. The only adjustments I needed to make was to enable secondary clicking and to increase the tracking speed in System Preferences.

Think about it for a second; a touch surface needs to be stationary so that objects can move along its surface, while a mouse is designed to be as easy to move as possible. So right off the bat there's a conflict. You either have to make the mouse harder to move (bad for general mouse use) or you force the user to hold the mouse in place, in some fashion, in order to use the touch features.

The Magic Mouse is not hard to move, nor does the user have to physically hold it in place to use the touch features.

The Magic Mouse also forces users to change modes between grasping the mouse for pointer movement, and hovering over the mouse for touch input, slowing down workflow. A normal 5 button mouse has all of its buttons directly under the fingertips at all times, giving immediate access to all functions.

I don't find myself switching between grasping and hovering at all. You hold it like you would any standard two-button mouse with scroll wheel, so your index and middle finger are already in the correct positions to flick, scroll, swipe, etc.

 

[Terpfen]

If the technology is available for the iPhone through the LCD screen, no reason why it can't be implemented through the casing of a mouse.

Except for the fact that pinch to zoom is indeed absent from the Magic Mouse despite being present on the iPhone. Both devices have capacitive touch sensors, but the Magic Mouse can't do pinch to zoom. It's either an oversight in the drivers, or there's a good reason for it--sensitivity of the sensors, perhaps?

 

[caleb2001r]

I was thinking in more detail about this last night, and while it's not the best thing in the world that the Magic Mouse doesn't have pinch, I honestly never use it.

On my iPhone, it's nearly an essential feature. Other than for accessibility reasons, how many times have you used the zoom feature on your desktop (if you had it) or Macbook?

I personally rarely use it, so is the lack of a pinch and zoom feature something to really get worked up about? I actually "accidentally" use it more than anything. I hate it really - accidentally making the text on a web page larger because I used two fingers on the track pad.

Edit: On second thought, I could see how a graphic designer/web designer could make great use of this in Photoshop, and general consumers could use it to zoom in to things like PDFs that are hard to read.

 

[Unknown-One]

Congratulations, you get to save 60 bucks. Meanwhile, Apple desktop users get multitouch. If you don't see a point to this, that's fine

Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said I didn't see the point of multitouch - in fact, I quite clearly stated that it was useful in a touch screen (or touch pad) environment, where the use of a standard 5 button mouse isn't possible.

That said, I do find it pointless and unergonomic when placed on the back of a mouse. Please re-read my previous post, as you've missed a number of points. So what if it's multi-touch if it can't even do everything a normal mouse can?

but simultaneously, it's not necessary to sit there and write five paragraphs denigrating the technology as completely useless.

I'm not allowed to express my opinion and ask what added functionality a product offers?

I notice no one yet has come forth with a gesture the magic mouse can do that your average 5 button mouse can't. Quite telling.

Not everyone wants to program their MX Revolution for every single app they own.

Program? I find the default configuration for my 5 button mouse works in just about everything. Also, the Magic Mouse's functions are programmable as well, so I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here...

The Magic Mouse is not hard to move, nor does the user have to physically hold it in place to use the touch features.

I'm sorry, but what you've just said doesn't seem physically possible. My own personal experiences with the magic mouse also say otherwise.

A mouse should be easy to move. Putting a finger on the top of a mouse and moving it should result in the mouse gliding around easily. To use the swipe gestures of the magic mouse, the device has to remain stationary relative to your hand.

It appears Apple took care not to use the slickest of mouse feet, it's noticeably more planted to surfaces than other mice. Even so, I found myself having to hold the mouse in place with either my thumb or pinky while using the touch features, as it would slide along the table instead of allowing my fingers to slide along its surface.

Ever hear the saying "jack of all trades, master of none"? That's a fairly good approximation of how well the magic mouse works.

I don't find myself switching between grasping and hovering at all. You hold it like you would any standard two-button mouse with scroll wheel, so your index and middle finger are already in the correct positions to flick, scroll, swipe, etc.

I'm sorry, but how do you swipe your index/middle finger sideways while grasping the mouse? That would involve bending your knuckles sideways beyond what is usually possible, or comfortable, for a human hand.

I find it necessary to lift my hand off the mouse by bending my wrist back. I can then curl my fingers back down and swipe using wrist motion (all while still holding onto the edges of the magic mouse with my thumb and pink/ring fingers so it doesn't slide away). This is a major slowdown compared to simply flexing my thumb for forward/back on a regular mouse.

 

[Tomahawk]

It appears Apple took care not to use the slickest of mouse feet, it's noticeably more planted to surfaces than other mice. Even so, I found myself having to hold the mouse in place with either my thumb or pinky while using the touch features, as it would slide along the table instead of allowing my fingers to slide along its surface.

I have no problem performing the touch gestures without actually holding the mouse. It stays put just fine, though it is easier if your gripping it slightly. It takes a lot less pressure to activate the gestures than it does to physically move the mouse, so a very light swipe of the fingertip(s) is all it takes.

I have found that it helps if your fingertips are dry and not oily. If you've just finished a bag of Doritos, forget about it.

I'm sorry, but how do you swipe your index/middle finger sideways while grasping the mouse? That would involve bending your knuckles sideways beyond what is usually possible, or comfortable, for a human hand.

Simple. The same way they do in the video.

Me thinks your making all this harder than it really is.

Remember, almost the entire top surface of the magic mouse is touch sensitive, so your fingers don't have to be in one specific spot for things to happen.

 

[Terpfen]

Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said I didn't see the point of multitouch... That said, I do find it pointless and unergonomic when placed on the back of a mouse.

Don't claim I put words in your mouth and then repeat the exact sentiment that was responded to in the first place.

Please re-read my previous post, as you've missed a number of points. So what if it's multi-touch if it can't even do everything a normal mouse can?

I didn't miss any of your points. You think multitouch has no place on the desktop. Solution: Don't buy the Magic Mouse. You're not simply expressing disinterest in the product, you're extending that by denigrating the concept behind the product.

I'm not allowed to express my opinion and ask what added functionality a product offers?

It's one thing to ask what the Magic Mouse offers; it's another to completely dismiss it as pointless.

I notice no one yet has come forth with a gesture the magic mouse can do that your average 5 button mouse can't. Quite telling.

Why respond to a false premise?

Program? I find the default configuration for my 5 button mouse works in just about everything. Also, the Magic Mouse's functions are programmable as well, so I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here...

The point I'm trying to make is that your reasons for denigrating the Magic Mouse are silly. "My five button mouse can do everything it can!" Great, that means you don't have to buy the Magic Mouse. Again: you are going beyond the realm of product disinterest by attacking the technology.

You personally see no application for the Magic Mouse. That's fine. Your (dis)interest in the product should end there. Unfortunately, it doesn't.

 

[Unknown-One]

I have no problem performing the touch gestures without actually holding the mouse. It stays put just fine

To me, that's an unacceptable amount of friction compared to other mice. What's funny is that it's still not enough friction to keep the mouse in place for all touch gestures...

Simple. The same way they do in the video.

Me thinks your making all this harder than it really is.

Remember, almost the entire top surface of the magic mouse is touch sensitive, so your fingers don't have to be in one specific spot for things to happen.

The video shows it the same way I described, with the users hand in a claw-like state while griping the edges of the mouse with the thumb and pinky finger to keep it from sliding away while swiping left/right.

I didn't miss any of your points. You think multitouch has no place on the desktop.

Again, please stop putting words in my mouth. Where did I say multitouch has no place on a desktop computer? I simply said it had no place on the back of a mouse.

If this were a touchscreen, or a USB multitouch pad (as I mentioned previously), I would have no qualms with it. Those are stationary devices where touch interfaces make quite a bit more sense.

It's one thing to ask what the Magic Mouse offers; it's another to completely dismiss it as pointless.

By all the points I've made, it is indeed pointless. I've asked to be proven otherwise, and all I've gotten back so far is knee-jerk reactions attacking me rather than attempting to point out anything useful about the magic mouse when compared to a normal mouse.

So, allow me to reiterate "Feel free to point out a touch gesture you can do on the magic mouse that can't be replicated on a 5-button mouse. I'm quite curious if there is one."

 

[lathode]

I was at Fry's the other night and tried out the Magic Mouse. It was not comfortable in my hand, also doing gestures on it was not the easiest thing to do. I love the MBP trackpad, but not this mouse. The Mini server is kind of cool. Would be cooler if it was cheaper though and maybe a little taller with hot swap bays on the back or something.

 

[Terpfen]

Again, please stop putting words in my mouth. Where did I say multitouch has no place on a desktop computer? I simply said it had no place on the back of a mouse.

No words are being placed in your mouth.

If this were a touchscreen, or a USB multitouch pad (as I mentioned previously), I would have no qualms with it. Those are stationary devices where touch interfaces make quite a bit more sense.

So don't buy it, and leave the product alone. I think multimedia or gaming keyboards are pointless: I don't write multiple posts on forums questioning their existence.

By all the points I've made, it is indeed pointless. I've asked to be proven otherwise, and all I've gotten back so far is knee-jerk reactions attacking me rather than attempting to point out anything useful about the magic mouse when compared to a normal mouse.

You haven't made any points. You've simply taken the position that the device is useless and then set an artificial requirement to be convinced otherwise that no one is interested in meeting, because no one really cares whether or not you buy the damn thing.

So, allow me to reiterate "Feel free to point out a touch gesture you can do on the magic mouse that can't be replicated on a 5-button mouse. I'm quite curious if there is one."

Allow me to reiterate: don't buy the mouse, and continue on your way.