New NEC 20WMGX2!!! (Pics inside 56K)

I took some more photos, i noticed that variables in camera that effect how the display looks are: Shutter speed (emphasizes colors); Light source (light bulb - makes screen blue, daylight - colours more as i see them); Distance - further away --> less backlight bleed.

Here you can see varieties, but you should see those at 1/8s on black background.

http://ogledalo.si/nec/variations/

1. Shutter speed: 1/8 s Distance:50cm Light source: Daylight
2. Shutter speed: 1/8 s Distance:50cm Light source: Lightbulb
3. Shutter speed: 1/8 s Distance:90cm Light source: Daylight
4. Shutter speed: 1/1s Distance:50cm Light source: Daylight
5. Shutter speed: 1/1s Distance:50cm Light source: Lightbulb

At 90cm it looks OK, but i am usually 45-65cm away.

I guess i am quite sensitive, but i dont like it when i compare NEC20WGX2 that costs more than twice as much as Samsung 740T and Samsung has better uniformity and no goldish brownish corner. If i observe very precisely Samsung only has blueish corners, but much less visible than NEC. Colours, on the other hand, are quite better than 740T.

And yes, display gets all gold at diagonal view. From vertical angle, it gets gold on left and right side, from horizontal angle it gets blueish/violet on top and bottom. In both cases - vertical or horizontal angle it is black in the middle. : )
 
Aambro:

Those photos still make monitor look off to me. I took a new pic of my monitor just now using Eizo test and photo at 1 second from 6 feet away. It shows a pretty even panel with no colors like what I see in yours. Try the Eizo test if you are curious. Download from link below and then it has a black panel that covers screen so you can check for backlight (the black panel test has a menu bar at bottom but one button takes it down so you can see just a black panel).

Here's photo I took of NEC at 1 second with Eizo display test:
http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/1546/nec10secwitheizotest1gk.jpg

Here is Eizo test:
http://www.eizo.co.uk/lcdtestutility.html


wlee1225:

Here is another link to someone who has calibrated NEC a lot :

"Prior to the calibration my 20WMGX2's settings were about 30 brightness and 50 contrast in the sRGB (6500K) preset (which isn't exactly 6500K). These settings were measured at about 250 nits, very bright for general usage. After, my settings ended up being 10.9% brightness, 82.0% contrast, and R:93.3%,G:88.2%,B:89.4%. This, coupled with the ICC profile it generated (which contains the gamma curve compensation), made the monitor absolutely beautiful. It was very easy on the eyes, and white looked consistent and pure without being overpowering. Black was 0.3 nits, a very respectable deep black. Even websites looked better: colors were more even and I found myself not fiddling with the brightness settings anymore depending on what I'm doing.

The calibration itself was quite tight.

NEC 20WMGX2
Color Temperature 6500K->6500K
Gamma 2.2->2.2
Luminance 120.0 cd/m2->120.6 cd/m2
deltaE2000 avg: 0.56

Needless to say I was very impressed with the results. Before I could say I had awesome colors, but now I can say they are even more accurate and comfortable. The gamma profile seals the deal by making fine adjustments that you yourself are unable to make on your monitor (or reliably on the video card). If you just had the brightness/contrast settings correct, color temperature could still be way off, and things would definitely looked washed out without proper gamma compensation. These are crucial to having impressive on-screen color reproduction, and only possible by using a colorimeter device like the Eye-One Display 2. "

http://lcdresource.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=45&Itemid=36

The fellow who maintains that site also keeps display list over at anandtech (xtknight) and he uses other setting as well and writes about them when people have asked
 
Needless to say I was very impressed with the results. Before I could say I had awesome colors, but now I can say they are even more accurate and comfortable. The gamma profile seals the deal by making fine adjustments that you yourself are unable to make on your monitor (or reliably on the video card). If you just had the brightness/contrast settings correct, color temperature could still be way off, and things would definitely looked washed out without proper gamma compensation. These are crucial to having impressive on-screen color reproduction, and only possible by using a colorimeter device like the Eye-One Display 2. "


seems that others from Dell Panel Lottery are switching to Nec ;) Results after proper calibration are somewhat encouraging :)
 
Yeah this panel has a rep for having wide tweak range and being able to deliver on it with effort put in. I think a lot of Dell folks were like me and wanted good monitor and had at least a vague idea of difference betwen S-IPS/S-PVA etc. The fact that the Dell S-IPS could be only $350 just made the monitor a no-brainer. But then with all the panel lottery stuff and quality issues a second look seems prudent and viola" the NEC comes into view. A good Dell that works is nice thing but I'm glad I end-up with the NEC. Another cool thing just happened - this week I went back to some calibration sites I first went on when monitor was new (it was from Dell "issues" that I had found these sites lol) and even though I haven't tweaked it the monitor image has improved. I guess just the "burn-in" caused that, I can see all the grayscale levels now on tests. I don't have to squint to see the last level.
 
I see the same thing as Aambro. However, I figured it is just a quirk of the panel design. At extreme angles my monitor looks almost exactly the same as his with a black screen.

Also, with my head at less than 50 cm from the monitor, the color shifts are very apparent when I turn my head or move it up or down. I can see the non-uniformity.

I guess this is normal, and I cannot see this effect when viewing images, watching movies, or playing video games.

This may be an effect of the glossy screen - I don't think the Dell 1905FPWs I have at work do this, but they are matte.
 
I did the Eizo black panel test on the Dell 1905s here at work - they are definitely (EDIT: not!) S-IPS (EDIT: AU P-MVA or PVA) panels, and they don't look anything like what I see in Aambro's screenshots or on my NEC. I can only assume this is an artifact of the AS-IPS panel design or the glossy screen or both!

On the Dells, the color shift is almost always the same at any angle - just a slight shift to purple. On the NEC, it almost takes a rainbow effect the steeper the angle - with a bias towards gold. Shifting your head slightly when <50 cm from the screen shows this effect quite obviously, while the purple shift is very very subtle and almost unnoticeable on the Dells.

Oh well. If you look at only black screens or a black screen with a small lit object then this could be bothersome. :)
 
I did the Eizo black panel test on the Dell 1905s here at work - they are definitely S-IPS panels, and they don't look anything like what I see in Aambro's screenshots or on my NEC. I can only assume this is an artifact of the AS-IPS panel design or the glossy screen or both!

On the Dells, the color shift is almost always the same at any angle - just a slight shift to purple. On the NEC, it almost takes a rainbow effect the steeper the angle - with a bias towards gold. Shifting your head slightly when <50 cm from the screen shows this effect quite obviously, while the purple shift is very very subtle and almost unnoticeable on the Dells.

Oh well. If you look at only black screens or a black screen with a small lit object then this could be bothersome. :)

Here is more info; not S-IPS but:

Dell 1905FP 20ms or 8ms G2G 19" Samsung PVA (LTM190E4-L02) or AU Optronics P-MVA (M190EN03 V0)
 
Interesting! Maybe it is the AU MVA panel then - but I don't see any color shifts at all on the Dell, and no dimming of the image at all at extreme angles.

It would explain a very subtle purple/bluish look at the corners - it must be uniformity and not S-IPS artifacts then. I'll look for a panel identification screen.

EDIT: They are both Samsung PVAs. No way! How come there is very little shift in colors at wide angles then? Oh wait - PVAs aren't that bad hmmm...)
 
Tnx for replies that encouraged me to take action.

I am waiting for response from the seller / NEC representative. I will let you know about the progress.

I could settle with golden shine at extreme - particularly diagonal - angles, since i think this is the characteristic for AS-IPS matrixes. But the uneven light at recommended distance is what bothers me mostly.

It would be interesting to other owners' photos of 20WGX2 and S-IPS panel displays from cca 50cm and at diagonal or top extreme angles.
 
Glad your going to resolve issue because I don't have anything like what your panel is showing and definately think something must be wrong. I also meant to give link to review that showed monitor pics taken from the side. The little bit of purple you can see in pics linked below is the same I get and that's all:

The link will show page 1 but go to page 2 for pics:

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/nec_20wgx2_phase2.htm
 
I was fooling around with projector calibration software and the Eye One profiling software.

Odd results - at first, I was measuring .12 cd/m^2, but a few trials later it shot up to just under .30 cd/m^2. I can only guess that the Eye One Pro spectroradiometer was warming up (the monitor was on for 2 hours). So instead of having 1000:1 On/Off contrast ratio I'm getting something around 700:1.

The projector calibration software (Accucal) I used concurs with the result. It is pro software for home theater calibration and has a better algorithm for taking dark readings. A full black screen measured 0.055 ftL (foot lamberts) and a full white screen measured 42 ftL, for a contrast ratio of around 750:1. Pretty damned good.

Brightness 10.9%
Contrast 91.0%
R 98
G 100
B 100

And an ICC profile. I use Gretag Macbeth's FREE CalibrationTester.exe program to generate this RGB profile you can use with it, so I don't have to give you an ICC profile. :D

Copy the following into a text file and use CalibrationTester.exe to load:

Warning: Big text dump to follow.
Code:
#GammaRamp
0	0	0	0
1	122	111	109
2	272	250	248
3	436	401	402
4	608	562	567
5	788	729	740
6	973	902	920
7	1164	1080	1106
8	1358	1262	1296
9	1557	1449	1492
10	1760	1638	1692
11	1965	1831	1896
12	2174	2027	2103
13	2385	2226	2314
14	2599	2427	2527
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24	4856	4556	4807
25	5091	4779	5047
26	5328	5003	5289
27	5567	5228	5532
28	5806	5455	5778
29	6048	5683	6025
30	6290	5913	6273
31	6534	6144	6523
32	6779	6376	6775
33	7025	6609	7029
34	7272	6844	7283
35	7521	7079	7540
36	7771	7316	7797
37	8022	7554	8056
38	8264	7793	8297
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40	8708	8262	8739
41	8932	8466	8961
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43	9382	8877	9409
44	9609	9084	9634
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i put all black as my windows desktop background, if i look straight, it's beautifully all black, but when i look at 30+ degree horizontally, the black shifts to purple from the far side of corner to whole screen as view angle goes wider, is this normal on this? my thinkpad IPS has much less purple :cool:
 
If any of you want to have fun seeing just how powerful this monitor is, try this.

turn gamma down to .5

turn adv off

turn contrast to 100&#37;

turn brightness to 50%

My eyes kind of hurt after, but tell me that isn't some EXTREME contrast! :D If They measured it the same way that samsung and LG lie and measure their "3000:1" contrast ratios, this thing would probably have over 10,000, no exaggeration.

Also in the "tools" option, I've found that you can adjust the brightness of the led light!!! I almost died laughing of joy at the quality of this panel.
 
Turn gamma down? Huh? Where is that? Is that in the NEC menus?

Or do you mean in the videocard? That won't have any affect at all in the mid-ranges. Pure bright white will still be the same value (255,255,255) unless you make it LESS bright (<255).

But anyways, it is hard to say how much contrast ratio you will get - you have to raise contrast AND brightness to increase the backlight output, so your blacks will get lighter. You'll need to measure with a colorimeter or light meter to see if there is any "improvement". :)
 
This definitely does not look normal. In addition to the gold and bright spots at the corners, there are "bars" going from top to bottom. I can only see these bars on black screens and its most apparent with the gaming mode set.


img0440ki9.jpg
 
What was the distance from display? Exposure time and distance from display make a great difference in how the photo looks like in the end. Please take a photo from 50cm and 1.0 s exposure time if possible, to make comparison as objective as possible.
 
Hey all:

I'm considering this monitor (with a few others). I don't play games, it's basically all text and web pages for me. How is this monitor with text? I went to BB and CC and all the LCD's seemed slightly different. I couldn't find one of these anywhere.

Thanks.
 
I was about 54cm away from the screen, not sure about the exposure time. I dont think my camera(canon sd700is) has manual exposure time. It does have up to 800iso though. I will try at exactly 50cm tonight. Are those bars normal? It is really shows on gaming mode, but I can still see them in other modes too.
 
What is your monitor set to (brightness, contrast etc)? Here is pic I took of mine a few weeks ago (it uses the dark screen found with Eizo test for backlight (its linked a few posts back in this thread). The pic you have looks off for sure somehow.

 
Hey all:

I'm considering this monitor (with a few others). I don't play games, it's basically all text and web pages for me. How is this monitor with text? I went to BB and CC and all the LCD's seemed slightly different. I couldn't find one of these anywhere.

Thanks.

Hard to answer that one straight on. The monitor has potent definition and it can make the fonts look a bit chewy in Windows (told font rendering is better with Mac). That's not a weakness of monitor per se though. I use the Windows XP ClearType power toy and the fonts look good to me after a tweak.

http://www.microsoft.com/typography/ClearTypePowerToy.mspx
 
abcdelight: you said you took that photo from 6 feet away - that is cca 180cm which makes viewing angles pretty small. Ceould you take it from 50 cm also?

kessomat: I've seen similar effect only on CRT monitors. Is it seen on all DV modes? It doesn't seem normal to me.

I've taken mine to seller and was sent to distributer for Slovenia and i am waiting for their respons for nearly a week. They said they would check it with some NEC's equipment. I hope i bring good news tomorrow.
 
Yes, its just harder to see on all modes. You have to really look to see it in photo mode. I think I am going to call NEC on monday to do an advance replacement.
 
I have a question for any nVidia users here (if you have an 8800 card, even better). I know nVidia's drivers supposedly let you scale images 1:1, or stretch them while keeping the aspect ratio, for monitors without built-in scaling features. When I was Googling for more information about it though, I came across a number of posts on the nVidia forums with people complaining about how it didn't work at all. Almost all of these users were using Viewsonic displays, specifically the 2025WM, though. So if anyone here with a new(er) card, recent drivers, and a DVI connection could confirm or deny for me if it works with the 20WMGX2, I'd really appreciate it. This monitor sounds great and I want to pick it up, but being able to appropriately scale other aspect ratio resolutions is pretty important to me.
 
I can't seem to get stretching (ie. from 1024x768 to 1680x1050 with the black bars on the sides but stretched top to bottom) to work with my NVIDIA 7900GT card with the 92.91 or 93.71 drivers.

If I try to change the Flat Panel Scaling from Centered Output to "Fixed Aspect Ratio scaling", the NVIDIA control panel ignores it and resets it back to Centered Output. Very frustrating.

I swore I had it working before, but perhaps my memory is faulty. :(
 
It lets you choose:

FULL - This is 16:10 (stretched to fill the screen)
ASPECT - This is 16:9 for 720p (black bars at the top and bottom)
OFF - This is 1:1 (centered)

so you can select this from the monitor menu in DVI mode? can I play a 4:3 game without stretching? if not, what kind of options are available in VGA mode? I ask because if I have an old 4:3 only game and I don't want the image stretched...how should I play it? does the monitor support VGA 1:1 scaling?


also: the monitor doesn't natively support DVI 1:1, correct? has anyone had success forcing 1:1 with a geforce 8800?
 
I received a replacement monitor from NEC last wednesday. I am not real happy so far, this is a picture I just took. I have been reading that the orange glow at the corners go away after a week, can anyone comment on this?

img0474py8.jpg
 
I've received my display back from distributor. They measured it with NEC's equipment and the report said it was within the tolerance of manufacturer.

I've talked to the seller and he said if i'm still not happy with it, that i can return it or replace it for a better display. Since i wanted the same back and they had no more WGX2, but only WGX2 pro, they offered me this one for a slightly higher price (don't know yet how much it'll be, because i am still testing it and haven't payed for it yet). I was quite lucky with the store - guys working there are very helpful and kind.

First notice - it didnt have uneven yellow haze from corners - from 50cm distance perpendicular to display it is practically not noticable. BUT it had blue/white haze on left side of the screen and some white stripes seen mostly from right side. I took some photos and i'll post it in few hours.

I noticed that this white spots depend on the pressures applied on the panel. If i play gently with container (boy around panel), it changes its pattern. I tapped it slightly on side and it got better (i will post photos).

Kessomat: About yellow haze - as far as i read and saw, the WGX2's panel has yellow haze, best seen from diagonal view. If you look at it from top-right angle, you see it in bottom left. Obviously - if you get neer to the center of the screen (10cm) - you can see black cross and all 4 yellow haze corners. This is how it is. What is important is that those yellow hazes are evenly spread - if they are, you shouldn't see any from working distance (50cm) if you set the display facing right towards you. If you are above the display and display facing your chest, then you will see the yellow haze in bottom corners. (50 cm distance, black screen)

To all who consider buying this display - yellow haze is only noticable with black even colour. If you are looking at coloured photo it is not seen from any corner. Colours are very vivid and don't change with viewing angles as they do with TN or VA matrixes. I am working with web-design and for me it is important that orange, blue or whatever colour doesnt change from top to bottom. I was working once on some cheap LCD and it gives the effect of a gradient. So when i am using gradients with design i then didn't know whether it is mine or monitor's. Also if i picked a colour from bottom and apply it on top it was not the colour i saw.

There are no such problems with this display and i would recommend it for graphic design also, BUT don't use DV modes with it, because it makes weird effect - seen again with gradients. If i am working with 3D design, with DV modes on, it constantly corrects brightness/contrast/(colour) and this is seen as changing stripes over 3d objects. I have it set without DV modes on, 20-25 brightness, 50 contrast, Native colour mostly.

(edit) Another thing i noticed is how banding (if this is banding at all) changes with brightness and contrast. In EIZO test (gradient from black to white) try changing brightness and contrast - with mine set to 50, 50, no bands are visible. If i change it, more and more bands occur, but spread evenly through display. I've played with other two LCD's here and i noticed that with all 3 the problem occurs ONLY with green colour. Try EIZO test, gradient, and play with left and right colurs by slowly changing their values. In my case, the changing banding effect on all 3 displays is noticable when changing green channel. If i change blue or red channel, the banding, if there is any, stays the same, just colours change.
 
kessomatt: My comment is that yellow haze doesn't disappear, the bright spots did in my case. If the yellow haze is uneven, this is in my opinion the consequence of (unevenly) bent panel. If i wasn't afraid of losing warranty, i'd take it apart to try to loosen the panel. I think that lots of problems with uneven lightning come from improperly fixed panel in the box/container. I read about this also somewhere.
 
This yellow haze is visible sitting 50cm away, looking at it directly. It will disapear when I look at it from certain angles.
 
Aambro, I find that a brightness of 10.9% and contrast of 91.0% has no banding when I use the gradient patterns from LCDResource.org. However, like you observed, changing brightness and contrast will change the banding. There are several combinations of brightness and contrast that have no banding as well - I think something like brightness 18.9% and contrast 65% that has no banding too. But, it varies per monitor - my first NEC 20WMGX2 was slightly different. I'm guessing that there may be NECs with different firmwares out there!

I suspect that the first NEC I had had better scaling modes than the second one - but unforunately I did not check the firmware revisions before I swapped it. This 2nd NEC is more finicky about resolution changes - sometimes I lose sync and I have to power cycle the monitor AND reboot the PC to get a picture again. It is very annoying.
 
A little, if I look at extreme angles (60 degrees or more from center). However, I do not see them if I look at it dead center 90 degrees.

At lesser angles I see a blue tint on the whole screen, if the screen is totally black.
 
I received my 20WGX2 a week ago, and at first it indeed had very noticeable yellow haze in the corners. The haze calmed down after a few days, but I'm still not quite happy with it. However, the real problem I'm having is the viewing angles.

The monitor sits at 50-60 cm distance. When facing the monitor directly, I see some blue colour in the lower corners. If I turn it a bit downwards the blue colour is almost gone, but it's annoying to watch it this way. Also, if I turn it too much the yellow haze appears.

I thought IPS panels were supposed to have good viewing angles. On my monitor I get decent picture only in one specific position, and if I move my head a few centimeters, the blue or yellow colour appears in the corners and/or sides. Is this normal?

As a disclaimer, I'm coming from a 20" CRT and this is my first LCD. The yellow haze is noticeable only in a dark room when the picture is black, although black movie bars will do as well. The blue colour tint effect happens in lighted room, too, but is more obvious with lights out.

Other than this, I'm really pleased with the monitor, and I'm just asking other users if this is normal behaviour or not. I'll post some pictures tonight.
 
The yellow haze takes at least 20 minutes to appear after turning it on. It looks almost perfect until then. That has to be a backlight issue right?
 
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