New media server/ folding box

[laggedreaction]

Ok well, I'll be building a media server for parents. I only have 1 day to build it though, since I fly back the next day. That means I need to get everything together and get it right.

A few items are undecided right now. Basically little stuff I'm vacillating on. Any suggestions?

Anyway, here's what we're looking at so far:

Case: Norco 4020 4U 20xHotswap HD bays
Motherboard: MSI K9A2 Platinum AM2+/AM2 AMD 790FX has 4 PCIe slots--will use 3 GPU folding, 1 SATA RAID
CPU: AMD Athlon X2 BE-2400 Brisbane 2.3GHz yup, dirt cheap
Graphics: My old EVGA 8800 GT (folding)
2x PNY 9800 GX2 (folding)
RAM: *Undecided*
Power Supply: *Undecided*-- probably 1000+ watts
RAID card: HighPoint RocketRAID 2340 Will probably swap for a nice 24 port Areca around Christmas time.
Boot HD: *Undecided*
Array HDs: *Undecided* Probably use a few 1TB drives for now and fill out everything with 1.5 TB drives when available.
Optical Drive: LG Combo 6x Blu-Ray/HD-DVD drive to be mounted in a spare esata enclosure.
Case fans: 7x Vantec Tornado 80x38mm
CPU cooling: *Undecided*

OS: *Undecided* WHS or Vista 64 or XP 64 ???

The CPU is weak, but his system will never play a game. If speed becomes an issue later, I can upgrade to a Nahalem system at the end of the year.

Also, is it true that there's a limit to the number of GPUs that can be used in Vista?

 

[Wyxe]

WHS is out of the question if you want to run the GPU client on it, although it is great "set it and forget it" server software. I vote for Vista 64.

 

[laggedreaction]

Ok, but what version of Vista 64? Also, isn't there some sort of limit on the number of GPUs in Vista? I heard people had to use XP to get around that.

 

[sirmonkey1985]

well first off the be-2400 is not weak and is very overclockable.. can easily hit 3ghz since its basicly just a low power version of the 5000+ brisbane core all they did was drop the voltage.. i have a be-2350 in my fileserver and it definately feels faster then my x2 6400+.. though im not sure why you would use a 790FX board and run 3 nvidia cards on it.. comes down to why bother using a low wattage CPU.. might as well go with an e6300 or e6600 or something of more performance..

you can use the stock AMD cooler if it came with one.. they are completely quite and with the be-2400 you wont have an issue with heat.. my be-2350 has been running at 100% load for 3 months straight now and has never gone over 35C but this is a guess since the cpu dies are reporting incorrect temps.. so im basing it off the motherboard socket sensor..

also give up the idea of 1.5TB drives.. because the price per GB wont be worth it at first.. once 1.5TB seagates are released you will be able to buy 1TB drives for under 100 dollars.. which makes it worth the money..

and go with vista 64 bit if you want 64bit.. xp 64bit has to many issues.. and with a media server id say go with vista home premium 64bit or what ever its called but i believe thats the version....

 

[laggedreaction]

Why the 790FX board? For one, it was only $149. Secondly, it just had a layout I was looking for. The K9A2 has 3 double spaced PCIe 16x slots. I looked at intel boards, but they were both quite a bit more and didn't do 3 double space PCIe 16x slots.

Why that CPU? Because it was cheap and I just needed something to get the board running.

Also, come to think of it, I probably will give up on the 1.5 TB seagates. I heard they're already out now for $200, but sold out everywhere.

I still need to think about the PSU and memory...

 

[Tigerbiten]

I never got Vista to go above 5 GPU clients.
I had to swop to XP to get all 8 to work.
I think its a limitation due to how Vista detects the 9800GX2 cards.

You may find that mixing cards with a different number of shaders in one box, makes some cards run slow.
So just a heads up on that.

The memory need of the GPU client is small at the moment.
Only around 50 Mb per client.
So 2Gb will do but 4Gb would be better.

A good 800-1,000 Watt supply will power it easily.
Just get one with the right numbers of 8 pin PCIE connectors.

Do you plan to run a CPU client with the GPU clients or just GPU clients ??
Without the CPU client then a good Dual core will do.
With the CPU client then your looking at a Quad core.

Luck ...........

 

[Dangman]

RAM: Just get the cheapest 2GB set of DDR2 800 RAM you can find.

PSU: While I've seen a Corsair 750W and PC Power & Cooling 750W PSU power 21 drives in that Norco cases, none of them were powering high-end video cards like yourself. So yes you do need a 1000W PSU as you thought. I recommend the Corsair 1000HX 1000W PSU.

RAID Card: Do note that RocketRAID card is a software RAID card. Meaning that it uses your PC's CPU to handle all of the RAID parity calculations. As such, you will see high CPU usage. Also note that if you cannot move an array made on a Highpoint card to an Areca card. At least, AFAIK.

If you don't mind buying used hardware with little or no warranty, you could buy a Dell Perc 5/i card off eBay for ~$125 or so plus two of these SFF-8484 to 4 x SATA Cables for ~$25. Thus, you get 8 ports and a true hardware RAID controller for around ~$150 or so. Add a battery backup unit for ~$50 and you're set in case of power outages. Not a bad deal considering that a new true PCI-E hardware RAID controller is around $300 (Areca ARC-1210) for 4 ports. But those Dell Perc 5/i cards are a bit finicky about motherboards. It will take up PCI-E x16 slot if you don't have a PCI-E x8 slot.

Read these threads for more info:
Finally went to a Hardware Raid5 controller...
Dell Perc 5/i - Mainboard Compatibility List
Solution for Dell Perc 5/i for Intel Chipsets

Boot HD: Don't need anything special.

Array drives: Seagate 7200.11 1TB drives seems to be the drive of choice among the Norco users here in the forums.

 

[Xilikon]

WHS is out of the question if you want to run the GPU client on it, although it is great "set it and forget it" server software. I vote for Vista 64.

Agreed, I found out the hard way about the limitation. Basically, there is no NVIDIA or ATI driver available for WHS so the only driver is the MS one that you cannot fold with obviously

For RAM, I strongly suggest you get 4 GB since it's cheap. For the PSU, to have enough connectors for your needs, a Corsair HX1000 is needed. At a lesser extend, a Corsair TX750 or a BFG ES-800 will have enough 8 pin PSI-E connectors for your 2x9800GX2 but you will need a Molex to 6 Pin adapter for the 8800GT. It's not a real problem as long as you don't get overboard with harddisks and such.

 

[Celerator]

With all the fans, I'd be concerned about the noise for a media server box.

Fold on.

 

[laggedreaction]

You may find that mixing cards with a different number of shaders in one box, makes some cards run slow.
So just a heads up on that..

Well, I'm stuck with an extra 8800GT, and haven't ordered the GX2s yet. Not gonna build another system, so it's either go all 3x8800GT, 3x9800GX2, or (2x9800GX2+1x8800GT). In the second scenario, I have an extra 8800GT not being used.

Do you plan to run a CPU client with the GPU clients or just GPU clients ??
Without the CPU client then a good Dual core will do.
With the CPU client then your looking at a Quad core.

No CPU client.

RAID Card: Do note that RocketRAID card is a software RAID card. Meaning that it uses your PC's CPU to handle all of the RAID parity calculations. As such, you will see high CPU usage. Also note that if you cannot move an array made on a Highpoint card to an Areca card. At least, AFAIK.

Not so sure the CPU usage would not matter so long as it can handle 2 or 3 streams of video to Media Center clients.

Nothing heavy duty except for the act of initially copying data into the array.

Also, as for switching cards, I was planning to add another array at the time, copy all data, and then add the drives to the Areca. Any idea on how fast/slow the OCE would be for that?

Array drives: Seagate 7200.11 1TB drives seems to be the drive of choice among the Norco users here in the forums.

Hmm, why not the cheap WD drives? I've actually got 7 in my own machine as individual drives right now. I heard there was some sort of RAID bug with them, but that can be corrected by updating their firmware. Does the problem still exist?

With all the fans, I'd be concerned about the noise for a media server box.

It'll be in the basement workshop all the way on the other side of the house away from the bedrooms and TVs. I suppose if it is somehow noticeable, I could use a fan controller or switch back to the original fans.

 

[sirmonkey1985]

well.. whats the avg PPD of say 2x9800GX2's.. because right now im running a 8800GT w/ bios volt mod at 760/1850/1000 and im doing 5200+PPD.. so if you do 3x8800GT's your talking 15000+PPD.. just as an idea since the price for performance in my opinion would be 3x8800GT's.. plus i think with 8800GT's heat will be a little less of an issue.. especially in that case..

as long as your not doing HD streams.. i see no reason why the be-2400 wont be able to play 2-3 media streams..

since you did say you were leaving.. i hope you informed your parents on what to do if a drive dies in a raid array..

and i agree with going with WD.. might as well go with the WD 1TB GP drives.. atleast it will cut down on a little bit of power use..

 

[Dangman]

Not so sure the CPU usage would not matter so long as it can handle 2 or 3 streams of video to Media Center clients.

I've seen roughly 15 to 50% CPU usage with software RAID. However those were with faster CPUs (X2 4400+ and Q6600). And those were with small arrays too I believe.

Also, as for switching cards, I was planning to add another array at the time, copy all data, and then add the drives to the Areca. Any idea on how fast/slow the OCE would be for that?

Depends on the size of the array and what card you have. I've seen as short as 4 to 8 hours to as high as 24 to 48 hours.

Hmm, why not the cheap WD drives? I've actually got 7 in my own machine as individual drives right now. I heard there was some sort of RAID bug with them, but that can be corrected by updating their firmware. Does the problem still exist?

Because the Seagate 1TB drives can be found for pretty damn cheap and come with a 5 year warranty:
Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST31000340AS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - $125

Oh the RAID bug with the WD 1TB drives was called TLER bug. Even when it was disabled or enabled (forget which one), the WD drives were still a bit finicky. And yes it still exists. In addition, it looks like the Seagate drives have better compatibility with many hardware controllers compared to the WD.

 

[Celerator]

It'll be in the basement workshop all the way on the other side of the house away from the bedrooms and TVs. I suppose if it is somehow noticeable, I could use a fan controller or switch back to the original fans.

Very nice. I'm curious how you connect the server up to the TV, etc. and how you control it from afar. I didn't think that was possible, but would love to learn more.

Fold on!

 

[Xilikon]

Very nice. I'm curious how you connect the server up to the TV, etc. and how you control it from afar. I didn't think that was possible, but would love to learn more.

Fold on!

It's possible with media extenders like a Xbox 360 which pick the contents from the media server.

 

[laggedreaction]

Well, I've changed things around a bit.

I ordered a second K9A2 and 7x 8800 GSs.

Also, I've gone with 6 of the 1TB Seagates for the initial array.

As for Optical Drives, the file server will have a slim Lite-On DVD+-RW. The other will have 1 LG Blu-Ray/HD-DVD 6x Drive and 4 Lite-On DVD burners.

Very nice. I'm curious how you connect the server up to the TV, etc. and how you control it from afar. I didn't think that was possible, but would love to learn more.
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The other TVs have PS3s(Living, Basement, MB, Guest room 1), 1 has a Popcorn Hour(Basement), and Living has a Windows MCE computer.

Plan add a MCE to basement after TV is upgraded.

BTW, every room in the house should have at least 2 gigabit sockets. Living and MB have 4 each.

As for controlling this, I VNC to the computers(near Chicago) from my place in Japan.

 

[Celerator]

This has me drooling! Where could I read more about setting up a remote (basement) media server?

 

[laggedreaction]

Now, I'm wondering if a Power PC & Cooling 750 would be enough for rig with 3x 8800GS, 1 Raid card,8 to 16 HDs, and 7 Tornado fans?????

Should I just go for something that's a 1000W+?

 

[sirmonkey1985]

did a calculation.. from the basics you had said.. put the be-2400 sli 8800GS's 16 hdd's 1 raid card 7 high performance fans.. 4 DDR2 sticks.. and no a 750w power supply wont be enough..

came out to 726w at 90% TDP for the whole system..

running 3 8800GS's your looking at a minimum 1000w PSU at 90%TDP..

http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp <-- use this if you want try out some other setups or do your own calculations for the setup you want..

 

[Xilikon]

did a calculation.. from the basics you had said.. put the be-2400 sli 8800GS's 16 hdd's 1 raid card 7 high performance fans.. 4 DDR2 sticks.. and no a 750w power supply wont be enough..

came out to 726w at 90% TDP for the whole system..

running 3 8800GS's your looking at a minimum 1000w PSU at 90%TDP..

http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp <-- use this if you want try out some other setups or do your own calculations for the setup you want..

The calculators is shitty. I have a Seasonic S12-500W running 2x8800GS and Q6600 overclocked to 3.3 GHz without problems. A 750W will definitely run 3-4 8800GS. OTOH, if you have a 9800GX2, you might need a beefy psu indeed.

 

[Tigerbiten]

I've a Q6600 @3.1Ghz + 2x 9800GTX+'s on one box.
Add 4Gb Eam, a Raptor Hard Drive and a couple of 120mm case fans.
The whole setup pulls only 350Watts from the wall measured on a Kill-a-Watt meter.
I'm useing a 550 watt PSU.

Luck ...........

 

[laggedreaction]

Well, I got both boxes setup, but for some reason on one of the K9A2 motherboards, Vista64 won't recognize any monitor connected to video cards in the PCIe 16x slots 2 & 3. Yes, it did install the drivers fine with all 3 cards showing up in the Device Manager. Hmmm, at first I tried my dummy adapters. Tshat wasn't the problem,tried swapping to different slots, then I tried taking out RAID card, still no difference, and last I tried connecting up an actual monitor---no connection detected. So, in one box, I've got 8800GS,RAID,Empty,8800GS. In the other, it's 4 x 8800GSs.

What in the world could have been causing the problem? Same board, Same OS...

This leaves an extra 8800 GS laying around.

I wish had more time to debug it. I only had two days to put this together and troubleshoot, now I've got another 12 hour flight back to my place. lol, yeah actually posting from the nwa lounge in Detroit since I wasted so much time try to figure out the problem.

Anyway, on the 4 x GPU box, I have the shaders overclocked to 1800 MHz. Is that good or should I try for something higher? Keep in mind I have to do this via VNC, and won't have access to the actual hardware for a few months...

 

[styx0r]

Have you tried all 3 8800GSs without the RAID card installed? - Drivers removed -> reinstalled? I was going to suggest swapping slots, but you've done that already...

 

[laggedreaction]

Yup, tried taking the RAID card out and every single permutation of empty slots. No effect. The only thing I didn't try was uninstalling old drivers.

Anyway, that 2 GPU box is up and running fine. Looks like the 4 GPU box repeatedly crashes when running more than 1 folding client. I'll check again later to see if it's a specific card causing this. Funny thing is, checking the temps, there definitely wasn't any overheating. When I Windows reboots, it mentions something about a BSOD... Will investigate further.

 

[MrBooMY]

You did extend the desktop to every card that you were trying to use right? I made that mistake myself when I added my second card and I couldn't figure out why it didn't want to work.

 

[laggedreaction]

Wait, then why that matter if the card in the 4th slot was recognized automatically?

Also, how do you extend the desktop, if the card doesn't even recognize a monitor being connected?

 

[Kowan]

Start/Control Panel/Personalization/Display settings:
Click the Monitor Icon and you should get a box for "Extend the desktop onto this monitor"