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new fanless/silent system

1

10TBheaddrive

n00b
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
4
Hey guys, I'm planning to finally build a noiseless workstation after incurring what can probably be deemed as 'long-term computing-related hearing loss'.

Anyway, I want to make this as silent as possible, here are my specs:

CPU: Intel i7
Heat sink: ? Not sure yet (something passive obviously)
Motherboard: I'll check some stuff out later (HQ of course)
GPU: 2x 9600GTs w/ passive cooling (downgrading is possible)
PSU: fanless?
Case: Aerocool ExtremEngine 3T (so I have that huge front fan to start just in case)
Memory: at least 4GB of something (might go with 6 so I don't have to blow crap load on a symmetric 8GB)
Storage: Intel X-25 32GB (64GB would be nice, but I'll have to check my bank account – I'll probably end up dual booting, but maybe I can use NAS for the 2nd OS)

Using screens, peripherals, media, etc from my old box.

I deal with so much data that there is no way I'm keeping the hard drives near me – this is probably currently the primary source of noise. I'll do my best to limit the 32 or 64GB of disk space to OSs and applications.

What do you guys think? This thing need not die from heat exhaustion or cheap hardware – no down time. It's been about five years since I've obsessively read every benchmark, etc, which is why I'm coming to you guys. Whatdya think?
 
Ditch the idea of fanless. Even if you buy 500RPM Slipsteam fans it'll make everything much easier. They're probably 15-17dB and unless you put your computer 5 inches from your ear you shouldn't be able to hear them. Just put your case on the floor under the desk and you'll be fine with them. I mean it'll be more likely that you hear the buzz from your LCD monitor than you hear the fan in the case below your desk.

Really its not that difficult to build a silent system anymore, check SPCR's forum for what people are doing lately.
 
Sorry to tell you, 100% fanless won't work with that much power draw. I tried to go fanless with a 35W Athlon64 X2 and a 780G motherboard- a chipset known for being low power- and the onboard sound (of all things) ended up overheating and crackling because of the ambient heat that hovered around the heatsinks. You don't need MUCH airflow if you plan it out, but you do need the air to at least circulate around the components.
 
Hmmm, alright...

One of the primary uses of this workstation is for music production - and the room is pretty reflective (which is why my current fans sound so loud).

My CRTs don't make any noise by the way (even with my head next to them). Are you saying I can construct a system with (how many?) fans that is inaudible? Which fans can I trust db ratings from (they all seem to measure decibels from different distances in different places)? How is my case selection, and can the i7 be passively cooled now that we're designing a system with case fans? Thanks for your help.
 
I'd say get the x25-m instead of the x25-e. You'll get 80 gigs instead of 32, and unless you're running a database with it they're both going to be just as fast in practical use. Use fan controllers, either motherboard/software or a fanbus/zalman fanmates. You'll want a fan on the I7 heatsink, but you may be able to run it at very low rpms (quieter than the coils and caps in the computer) if the airflow in the case is set up properly. I suggest scythe for the case fans. Use a typhoon or s-flex on the heatsink, and consider the slipstreams for the exhaust or side panel intake. That big fan on the front of the case will be fine when it's on a controller, but I prefer sidepanel fans since they seem to put the air where it's needed most with the least amount of noise. 120mm fans below 800rpm are practically inaudible. I prefer to get 1200ish rpm fans and set them up via speedfan to automatically ramp up if the temps get too high. They never do even at full load on my x2 3800+ machine, around 650 rpm on the cpu fan and case fans.
 
Toda4561, the x25-m uses MLC, so I don't think that is an option with my multitasking/disk intensive tasks... (I was going for an SLC right off)

BlueFireIce, what do you think about my case selection? I guess I could get a fan controller and only turn the stock ones one when it is really hot...

I usually go for PCP&C, but I want something along the lines of what Bluefire posted (7.5db fans!); completely silent.
 
10TBheaddrive said:
Toda4561, the x25-m uses MLC, so I don't think that is an option with my multitasking/disk intensive tasks... (I was going for an SLC right off)

BlueFireIce, what do you think about my case selection? I guess I could get a fan controller and only turn the stock ones one when it is really hot...

I usually go for PCP&C, but I want something along the lines of what Bluefire posted (7.5db fans!); completely silent.
Click to expand...

x25-m is plenty fine....you just have to be careful of the crappy MLC drives like the cheap ocz ones...x25-m is PLENTY for everything. Don't know where you got that impression. you only need to be wary of the cheap MLC drives, not the good ones.
 
Why would you place some fans on the case and not the CPU heatsink? If you're going for the minimum amount of fans possible you'd want one exhaust, and one fan on the heatsink... Period. That's how most OEM systems are built for a reason, the exhaust is more important than the intake. Plus the PSU's fan obviously (there's some fanless PSUs but I wouldn't trust any of them w/an i7 rig).

That being said, if you're going for an ultra-quiet system then the i7 is probably not the best choice for that. I mean, you can get pretty quiet with an i7 ('specially if you don't OC it or you don't OC it very high), but I'm not sure it's gonna be quiet enough for your needs... Are you recording music in that room or just mixing/editing? Because the latter would obviously more tolerant and in that case the i7 would probably be fine (and the SSD would be overkill for that purpose imo).

That case looks like more bling than anything... The big fan vent in front is gonna leak a lot of noise, something like an Antec P182 would suit ya much better imo, and PCP&C really doesn't make the quietest PSUs out there either. If you're not doing any recording in that room you can have regular HDs decoupled and they'll hardly make any noise at all, most HD noise is transferred vibrations rather than seek noise. Decoupling a drive can entail something as elegant as suspending it in elastic bands or as simple as setting it at the bottom of the case on top of a slab of foam (as I've done for years).

Corsair's HX line has some of the quietest PSUs out there btw, Anand recently did a good PSU-round up that took sound readings from all of 'em at idle and load IIRC. SPCR is a great resource for all of this... You'll find plenty of fan recommendations there (and all fan specs tend to be bs, there's no standard for measuring CFM/dbA on 'em).
 
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Oh and the comments above about going with the X25-M are spot on, it'll still be plenty fast for your needs if you really need the performance (and not just the low noise profile)... Just look around at some reviews, it's gonna be a good degree faster than any regular HDD, including the 10,000 RPM raptors, the X25-M and OCZ's Vertex line are the best bang for the buck right now. The problem with the first MLC SSD drives wasn't the fact that they were MLC drives but that they used horrible JMicron controllers which made all the difference.

The X25-M uses an Intel controller and the Vertex uses an Indilix controller. Samsung drives are also a good third choice (they use Samsung's own controllers), it's what many OEMs are using right now on laptops, tho they're not quite as fast as the Intel/Vertex drives (still faster than a HD) but you definitely won't get any of the stuttering and piss poor write performance of drives w/a JMicron controller (like every other OCZ drive and most other SSDs out there, G.Skill has a drive w/an Idilix controller too I believe, and Corsair is making some w/Samsung controllers IIRC).
 
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The Megahalem is probably the best choice for cooling an i7 with a low-RPM fan, since it's the best performing heatsink out there or one of the 2/3 best... If you go i7 you'll wanna go with 6GB (3x2GB) of DDR3 since it works in triple channel, if you went with something cheaper and/or cooler running (like a Core 2 Quad or a Phenom II) you'd have to go with 4GB (2x2GB) of DDR2. RAM's super cheap right now regardless.

Are you gaming with this system btw? Why the dual 9600's otherwise?
 
I do not care for those cases with huge fans. What do you do when it finally fails ?

Anyway here is another take on your issue if you decide to use a more conventional case.

And now for something completely different....

Since you are an audio guy I think you will grasp this. Consider building a baffled enclosure lined with sound deadening material to house the PC. Keep with your low noise plan but also enclose the machine in a simple larger box lined with sound deadening material and with air inlets and outlets that do not match up with the ones on the computer case, maybe one super quiet low speed fan middle of top to prevent heat gathering at the top. 3/8 MDF lined with acoustical insulation would be ideal with several layers of rubber sheeting/carpeting etc. in the bottom to reduce vibration/noise transmission from the computer case to the enclosure. Front would be open/vented at top for access to CD/DVD but opening would not be in line with the front fans of the computer case. Rear would be vented at bottom not in line with rear exhaust fan/PS and allow wiring to exit. Front secured with screws or other kind of removable fasteners to allow the computer to be slid in and out for maintenance. Side vent if desired on the right side of the enclosure One inch of free air clearance sides back top and front should do. Insulate per your investigation and budget - a Google of "sound dampening material" will provide lots of options. Put feet/casters on enclosure to limit acoustical coupling to floor.

This would allow an inexpensive computer case ( cheapest you can find that has 120mm fans front and back and side vents) to be used and the outer enclosure could be anything from glued and screwed plain MDF to a furniture grade wooden cabinet stained and polished etc

just tossing out alternatives.
 
Just using some sheets of corrugated cardboard can block a large amount of sound coming off the PC. The MDF "pc cover" is a route I'd go if I didn't have such a huge case to begin with, or if I actually needed the quiet for recording work.
 
What BillParrish mentions would probably be even more effective than anything stated so far, but again, it depends on what you're doing... For recording it'd be the best idea (short of simply housing the computer outside the room and running the cables for input peripherals and display in)... But for simple mixing and editing it's just wayyy overkill unless your room is literally dead silent (not quiet, but silent) and even the faintest sound of moving air is gonna bother you.

I'd research your choice of case more though, cases w/doors typically isolate you from drive/fan noise more than cases w/big honking vents. Steel cases are gonna be sturdier than aluminum cases (though again, if you decouple the HDDs vibration's not gonna be an issue). What does your setup currently consist of? You mention 'computer-related hearing-loss' sorta tongue-in-cheek (I think) but if you share the details we could tell you how much of a difference any of this is really gonna make (from new case to components to fan choices vs what you currently have).
 
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I really appreciate your extensive replies; this forum is a lot better than I thought it would be.

The 9600's are for my three screen rig - and yes I sometimes play games and do rendering (not too intensively - I'm not looking to double my power bill with these "high end graphics cards").

The hearing loss thing was tongue-in-cheek, but I'm not sure it is false.
My current system consists of 2 scythe ninja's on two opteron 250s + two evga 7800GT's (which are probably making the most annoying frequency with their small fast fans). I have a couple 500 gigs in a raid, a few 300gb drives, and a 74gb raptor (all filled unfortunately - which I'm planning to move this ridiculous wind-tunnel of a system to another room and use it as a NAS fitted with many more drives). The case is a 810 stacker and three of the 120mm case fans are stock (the one for the main hard drives on the front, and the two on the back). However, the extra two 120mm's for the cpu heat sinks are Delta's (ranked "quiet") I think, but they were far too wide to fit in between the heatsinks - so for that space I traded a rear exhaust fan for the Delta (but kept the first delta on the first heat sink). PSU is a PCP&C 510 ASL. I disconnected the mini chipset fans long ago as they were ridiculously annoying (and the 80mm fan on the top of the stacker).

I should be doing little, if any, recording in here – but I implied that to promote a much better standard of noise (I didn't mean to make this workstation sound single purposed). I guess the cabinet construction is one option, but if this is such a great noise reduction system, then why aren't there already solutions mass produced?

I'm skeptical that I would notice no difference between the extreme and mlc editions of the Intel SSD between running VMs, compiling kernels, managing large media libraries, and music production - or doing any number of “ridiculous” things I do (like right now having a minimum of 50 tabs open in opera and firefox – starting up such a large session is difficult for my raptor to pull off in a timely manner). Besides, I thought inherent in the nature of multi-level cells was the understanding that single layer cells would be more than noticeably superior for everything (minus production costs).

I'd be happy to get the Antec 182, but I thought cutting out 80mm fans would be one of the priorities in silent box production. The Megahalem, triple channel/i7 memory, and Corsair PSU recommendations sound promising, so I'll incorporate them. I'm looking at the i7 because it seems like the next logical leap in performance while not being ridiculously expensive (moving up from opterons).

I am seriously considering the computer trapped in a box solution, but I may research more elegant solutions first (feels like my computer might overheat in there or something...). Is one output, one heatsink, and one PSU fan an option for a system with two passively cooled gpus, etc?
 
The computer in a box thing is only for when you've pretty much exhausted all other means of silencing a machine. When you say music production it's easy to assume "recording microphones" so you want to eliminate any and all possible noise that the mics could pick up. If all you wanted was merely "quiet" it's not too hard to get a system (even an i7) to the point where you hear an lcd monitor's CCFL ballast more than the computer. The MLC speed issues have been sidestepped by some excellent controllers from intel and indilinx. SLC on the same controllers does have better write speed, but not enough to justify the additional cost in most applications, yours included.
 
10TBheaddrive said:
BlueFireIce, what do you think about my case selection? I guess I could get a fan controller and only turn the stock ones one when it is really hot...

I usually go for PCP&C, but I want something along the lines of what Bluefire posted (7.5db fans!); completely silent.
Click to expand...

I would stay away from that case, the one suggested is a nice case (the P182). If I was going for a silent system I would be spending more on a case. However, Silverstone also has some nice cases and the first thing I would do when I got the P182 would be to cut out all those stamped case grills (and change out the fans).

And even the fans I listed you have to remember you can not trust the noise rating, even though these fans will be more than quiet enough for your system. And as far as PSU's go Corsair is good and I love my Silverstone PSU, it's dead silent.

10TBheaddrive said:
The hearing loss thing was tongue-in-cheek, but I'm not sure it is false.
My current system consists of 2 scythe ninja's on two opteron 250s + two evga 7800GT's (which are probably making the most annoying frequency with their small fast fans). I have a couple 500 gigs in a raid, a few 300gb drives, and a 74gb raptor (all filled unfortunately - which I'm planning to move this ridiculous wind-tunnel of a system to another room and use it as a NAS fitted with many more drives). The case is a 810 stacker and three of the 120mm case fans are stock (the one for the main hard drives on the front, and the two on the back). However, the extra two 120mm's for the cpu heat sinks are Delta's (ranked "quiet") I think, but they were far too wide to fit in between the heatsinks - so for that space I traded a rear exhaust fan for the Delta (but kept the first delta on the first heat sink). PSU is a PCP&C 510 ASL. I disconnected the mini chipset fans long ago as they were ridiculously annoying (and the 80mm fan on the top of the stacker).
Click to expand...

I think I see your problem, all stock fans? That's the first thing to go in any of my systems, most come with 1200rpm+ fans, and that is just to loud, they are also often not the best fans to start with. And then you are running Delta's?! There is no such thing as a "silent" Delta. And from the sounds of it (them being to thick) I am guessing these are some 38mm fans, do you happen to know the model number for them? I am thinking way over kill for the ninja's, because they are not known for being very restrictive and some 25mm fans should be more than enough, 38mm fans are only adding more noise, yes you get higher pressure, but not needed for case fans or on the ninja's.
 
My computer is in the other room!

I am lucky that the electric outlets line up between the two rooms. So, opening the two outlets, I can see the other room.
I have a power cable, a DVI cable, an ethernet cable, a USB cable, and three sound cables going through.
The USB cable goes to a powered USB hub. The USB mouse and USB keyboard are attached to the hub.

The computer is not quiet. But, the workstation is absolutely silent.
 
"Megahalems + SFF21D and two SY1225SL12SL's for the case."

This is good advice, it would be very difficult to argue for anything else.

"Which fans can I trust db ratings from (they all seem to measure decibels from different distances in different places)?"

Don't trust any fan specs. Just go to SPCR and look at their reviews. The guy who runs it has spend a ton of money on making an anechoic chamber to accurately test fans and crap. Very short summary is the recommendations above, S-Flex for Heatsink and Slipstream for case.

"I'd be happy to get the Antec 182, but I thought cutting out 80mm fans would be one of the priorities in silent box production"
Antec 182 is all 120mm fans. Its also very highly rated for making quiet systems.

If you want to make an i7 go for it. Heat wise 45nm core2s are very cool running. Eg you can get a Q9550S(2.8ghz) that is a 65watt quadcore. I think I have the 65 or 50watt E5410s or something and they're ridiculously cool-- tho only 2.33ghz. Anyways i7 TDP are all 130watt for desktop parts.
 
There aren't any 80mm fans in the Antec P182... It's a steel case with very solid construction and thick side panels, plus some smart sectioning of the internal space. I think with your original post you underrepresented the kind of performance you were seeking out of the system and overestimated the kind of quiet environment you needed it for. I think you'd be fine with a minimum of quiet fans (heatsink + PSU + exhaust) and judicious component selection. You don't need that middle fan by the PSU on the lowest section of the P182 unless you're stuffing half a dozen HDDs into it.

As for the Intel drives, it's your money, but even for the kind of tasks that you're describing I think you'd be better off w/the -M drive... You won't even be able to fit half the apps/VMs you're using on a normal basis on a smaller more costly -E drive. The good MLC drives are still an order of magnitude faster than any HDD, including 74GB Raptors which at this point are outclassed by many regular 7,200 RPM drives.

As for watercooling... Meh, it's only an option if you wanna get a beefy OC out of the i7 while mantaining the same noise level as you would with air cooling and a milder OC... You still need fans if you watercool (usually 2 fans on the radiator), and you still need some case exhaust because mobo components, HDDs, and other things are still generating heat.

I think with some nice fans and a nice case you'll see a big difference, 'specially going from your current setup... Those 7800's plus the noisy case fans and the older HDDs are generating a lot more noise than what you'll get from more modern/efficient setup with passive GPUs, an SSD, and some quality fans.
 
I'd suggest using ducting inside the case with thermally regulated fans. This has been shown to cool significantly better than a regular 'open' case, and with the thermal probes in the right place (in the exhaust air?) the fans wouldn't be spinning faster than necessary. Take a look at the Mac G5 for an example of how to cool power-hungry components this way with excellent (and quiet) results.
 
You're overthinking this.

A p182/p183 has more than enough sound-deadening built into the case to run a completely silent PC with only one exhaust fan, one heatsink fan, (<1000rpm scythe's), and one fan inside of your power supply.

SPCR reviewed the Enermax Modu82+ 625 and considered it to be the quietest power supply they've ever tested. Pick up that PSU, take all the fans out of the p182/p183, throw in your scythe fans and heatsink, and you'll have a silent PC.
 
My ultra-120 extreme heatsink, without a fan, can easily handle my E6600 at stock speeds, slightly undervolted, with 50C full load temps.
 
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