New Dell 3007-HC: Not Impressed.

S

Snowdog

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 22, 2006
Messages
11,262
Well some quick impressions.

The good:

+ It is huge, insane screen real estate.
+ games are amazing if your hardware supports it, I was playing NWN at 2560x1600 4x AA. Nice!
+Stable gamma/color when moving in normal view position. No hide and go seek shadow detail.
+ not really the monitor but Nvidia scaling works perfectly for me (I have seen reports of otherwise) so I can have it stretch, aspect or no scaling and a black bars on all around.


The bad (somewhat).
- Screen has stronger (than my TN screen) more visible anti glare coating. This is not a deal breaker for me on its own.
- one fairly central stuck pixel.
- screen uniformity issues. I can see pretty definite pattern is the screen with light colors. Not the AG coating, but irregularity in the backlight or screen itself, makes a shadow, one corner is very dark.
- H-IPS white glow off angle. I prefered the older panels with the violet glow, this seems much stronger. I had to change my dark wallpaper because it was glowing strongly in corners.
- some black crush at less than painful brightness levels Not viewing angle gamma shift as this is often interpreted as. If you turn down brightness bottom blacks merge. (On Lagom images I see 1-6 as black.
- no controls except backlight and that is very poor control with no feed back and flaky touch sensitive (err... insensitive).
- only one input, only works with computers.

The Ugly ( one issue and it is a deal breaker)
--- Color is garish. Red is oversaturated, as is green at times, some image strong images hurt my eyes because of this. Some shades just plain wrong (sky blues most noticable, and skin tones often way overcooked). Uncorrectable with graphic card settings. No monitor settings to adjust. Color temperature is also too warm. Basically my cheapo TN screen has much better color.

Least objectionable in games, but even there when some radioactive reds appear. Very annoying in movies with everyone having a sun burn.

It is just not worth it to me to buy a calibration device to improve this, when it will only work in some applications (almost none that I use).

Bottom Line

I haven't completely made up my mind, but you get the idea, I am leaning strongly toward sending it back to Dell. Just dreading the upcoming fight to try to get them to cover shipping etc.

Edit: Returned for all reasons stated. Purchase smaller NEC 2490 for about the same price. Quality trumps quantity. Would not recommend this monitor unless you desperately need the extra pixels, even then...
In Contrast, very happy with my 2490; review here.
 
Last edited:
Try VGA vs. DVI input on the monitor?

Edit: nvm at that resolution VGA probably isn't supported.
 
Snowdog said:
Well some quick impressions.

The good:

+ It is huge, insane screen real estate.
+ games are a whole new experience at this level I was playing NWN at 2560x1600 4x AA. WOW!
+Stable gamma/color when moving in normal view position. No hide and go seek shadow detail.
+ not really the monitor but Nvidia scaling works perfectly for me (I have seen reports of otherwise) so I can have it stretch, aspect or no scaling and a black bars on all around.
+backlight goes low enough to stop scorching retinas.

The bad (somewhat).
- Screen has stronger (than my TN screen) more visible anti glare coating. This is not a deal breaker though. Already getting used to it.
- one fairly central stuck pixel.
- screen uniformity issues. I can see pretty definite pattern is the screen with light colors. Not the AG coating, but irregularity in the backlight or screen itself, makes a subtle shadow.
- H-IPS white glow off angle. I prefered the older panels with the violet glow, this seems much stronger.
- some black crush at less than painful brightness levels Not viewing angle gamma shift as this is often interpreted as. If you turn down brightness bottom blacks merge. (On Lagom images I see 1-6 as black.
- no controls except backlight and that is very poor control with no feed back and touch sensitive (err... insensitive).

The Ugly ( one issue and it is a deal breaker)
--- Color is garish. Red is oversaturated, as is green at times, some image strong images hurt my eyes because of this. Some shades just plain wrong (sky blues most noticable, and skin tones often way overcooked). Uncorrectable with graphic card settings. No monitor settings to adjust. Color temperature is also too warm. Basically my cheapo TN screen has much better color.

Least objectionable in games, but even there when some radioactive reds appear. Very annoying in movies with everyone having a sun burn.

It is just not worth it to me to buy a calibration device to improve this, when it will only work in some applications (almost none that I use).

Bottom Line

I haven't completely made up my mind, but you get the idea, I am leaning strongly toward sending it back to Dell. Just dreading the upcoming fight to try to get them to cover shipping etc.
Click to expand...


Dell is really good on covering shipping if you ask for a new replacment.. ;)

But if your just planning to return it for money back. I dont know they may make you pay for shipping..
 
The only issue likely to get fixed is the toasted pixel and most of the time I don't even see it. The other issues are the nature of this beast. So I wan't my money back.
 
The only 30" ips still available that has a standard gamut is the Apple Cinema Display. It doesn't have OSD controls either.

On my Dell 20" display, using less than 50% brightness doesn't decrease the backlight, it just crushes the available colors.
 
Yup, your quick review pretty much describes my 3007WFP-HC monitor perfectly as well. One stuck pixel, screen backlight uniformity issues, some amount of sparkle on light uniform surfaces, some white glow off angle... all issues I can live with, given all the advantages you listed.

However, I was able to adjust the garish color and black crush problem without a monitor calibration tool either. I'm running a pair of ATi cards in Crossfire mode, and through tweaking some setting in the Catalyst video drivers, I was able to adjust the color to a very satisfactory level. All I did was up the brightness to 20 to remove the black crush problem, so I can see differences in shade between ALL dark squares from 1 to 5 on the lagom site. Then I reduced the contrast from 100 to 50, which removed the pale yellow tint from whites so that whites look pure white. Changing color temperature from 6500K to 7700K and reducing color saturation down from 100 to 85 also helps immensely with over-saturated reds, and burned looking skin tones. I did all of these adjustments by eye with the help of the lagom website, and although not scientific, I am mostly very satisfied with the color on the screen now.

Snowdog said:
Well some quick impressions.

The good:

+ It is huge, insane screen real estate.
+ games are a whole new experience at this level I was playing NWN at 2560x1600 4x AA. WOW!
+Stable gamma/color when moving in normal view position. No hide and go seek shadow detail.
+ not really the monitor but Nvidia scaling works perfectly for me (I have seen reports of otherwise) so I can have it stretch, aspect or no scaling and a black bars on all around.
+backlight goes low enough to stop scorching retinas.

The bad (somewhat).
- Screen has stronger (than my TN screen) more visible anti glare coating. This is not a deal breaker though. Already getting used to it.
- one fairly central stuck pixel.
- screen uniformity issues. I can see pretty definite pattern is the screen with light colors. Not the AG coating, but irregularity in the backlight or screen itself, makes a subtle shadow.
- H-IPS white glow off angle. I prefered the older panels with the violet glow, this seems much stronger.
- some black crush at less than painful brightness levels Not viewing angle gamma shift as this is often interpreted as. If you turn down brightness bottom blacks merge. (On Lagom images I see 1-6 as black.
- no controls except backlight and that is very poor control with no feed back and touch sensitive (err... insensitive).

The Ugly ( one issue and it is a deal breaker)
--- Color is garish. Red is oversaturated, as is green at times, some image strong images hurt my eyes because of this. Some shades just plain wrong (sky blues most noticable, and skin tones often way overcooked). Uncorrectable with graphic card settings. No monitor settings to adjust. Color temperature is also too warm. Basically my cheapo TN screen has much better color.

Least objectionable in games, but even there when some radioactive reds appear. Very annoying in movies with everyone having a sun burn.

It is just not worth it to me to buy a calibration device to improve this, when it will only work in some applications (almost none that I use).

Bottom Line

I haven't completely made up my mind, but you get the idea, I am leaning strongly toward sending it back to Dell. Just dreading the upcoming fight to try to get them to cover shipping etc.
Click to expand...
 
Ah that would be an advantage of the ATI drivers. NV don't have saturation or color temp that I have found. You get digital vibrance that you can only increase, not decrease. Now that I look again, the gama seems to work like saturation... Go figure. Still no color temp.

The glow is starting to annoy me as it is very much stronger in one corner and I put up a black screen. It looks like someone is shining a flashlight at that point on the screen.

Even if you had a calibrator, it would help much. I downloaded a profile from the web, the only thing it works in is Firefox 3 beta and photoshop elements. All my movies etc, my main picture view tools, games etc... Are all still garish. I think you are better off sticking with the manual controls. I may give it another shot now that I have found the saturation/gama control.

I still think it is going back.
 
Hi,

I made the SAME observations about my HC panel - shoulda checked the forum before posting. Heh.

The non-HC was absolutely fantastic but the HC panel seems to be too warm and on the reddish side and yes, I notice a reduced dynamic range in shadow details (read: 'compressed' range of blacks). I'm going to try a calibration tool (the Huey) to see how it will change things. I suppose I can find someone to swap it for the non HC panel.
 
I knew about the wide gamut issue before buying the monitor, but I had to see for myself. I should have known better, I run toward the picky end of the scale and messed up color just about everywhere, just isn't acceptable to me. I can't believe that all monitors are going wide gamut and everyone thinks neon greens and reds are just fine. Sometimes I think most people are semi-blind.

I doubt a calibration tool will do much unless you spend all your time in photoshop. I tried a couple of profiles for the 3007-hc that I downloaded. They only worked in photoshop elements and Firefox 3 beta (I generally am not a fan of using Betas). So tame color in two applications. Yipee. Messed up everywhere else.

The color with the profiles didn't look that good either, but it was toned down a lot (maybe too much). But they were usefull to see where a profile would work. Which is almost no-where.


The total Irony is that if I keep this screen and use it to edit pictures. I will be color checking on my TN panel. :D
 
My 24" TN BenQ G2400W 72% color gamut has better realistic colors then all of these wide-gamut displays. A lot of people don't realise that until the whole industry goes to higher gamut standards, wide-gamut displays will over saturate everything.
 
I agree and I was aware of the issue, but I had to see for myself. I so wanted to have the big 2560x1600 resolution, but overall not at the expense of garish colors and marginal image quailty with an expensive price tag.

All the 30" screens have moved to the garish Gamut so you don't have much choice if you want to go big, soon you wont have a choice at all.
 
Snowdog said:
I agree and I was aware of the issue, but I had to see for myself. I so wanted to have the big 2560x1600 resolution, but overall not at the expense of garish colors and marginal image quailty with an expensive price tag.

All the 30" screens have moved to the garish Gamut so you don't have much choice if you want to go big, soon you wont have a choice at all.
Click to expand...

According to this article on Anandtech, the Dell 3007WFP and HP LP3065 (similar to the 3007WFP-HC) were both pretty far off on colors before calibration but were tops after they were calibrated. You might want to consider trying to calibrate the monitor if the colors are the most troubling aspect of the monitor for you.
 
Calibration does nothing for the wide gamut over-saturation that is the main problem, unless you are in a color managed application. 99% of the applications on my PC are not color managed, so there will be little real world improvement.
 
I want to get this 30" monitor but I am so afraid of those uneven lightning and comments here.

What should I do?
 
I think the Samsung 305T has much better image quality than the Dell or HP. Yes, yes... I know it has the dreaded PVA panel that's nigh-universally despised by many here. I've seen and used all three monitors, pre- and post-calibration. To MY eyes (the only eyes that matter) the 305T is tops.
 
The 305T is also a standard sRGB gamut panel which means no strange color problems. Though I don't like PVA either. If angular gamma shift doesn't bother you, the panel is better in just about every other way. It does lack HDCP though and if you get a new one (the 305T+) you are back in wide gamut problems.
 
NVidia Control Panel color controls, can't reset to default.

I have been trying to use the NVidia CP controls to tame the colors on my Dell 3007-HC. 8800GT using WHQL 169.21 Drivers.

I noticed now that it remembers the setting I have put in, but always puts the control back to center for each color band, or even worse. If I adjust the all channels and then switch to red channel. It leaves the control in the same place so that is the new center. If you then hit "reset to default" button, it will just move that control back to the center, further messing up the colors.

I now have significantly altered colors and yet the controls are all at the default position. My gray-scale gradient is now broke up and has color bands in it. I need a true reset? Any ideas. Anyone know where the settings are kept?

I haven't tried re-installing drivers, but I bet someone did the "smart" thing and maintained user settings between updates, so this likely won't help.

BTW I boot into Linux where I have done no manipulations and my gray-scale gradients are perfectly smooth.
 
Snowdog said:
Calibration does nothing for the wide gamut over-saturation that is the main problem, unless you are in a color managed application. 99% of the applications on my PC are not color managed, so there will be little real world improvement.
Click to expand...

I can tell you that calibration will effect everything you look at. Whether or not the app you are using is "color managed" isn't relevant. I hated mine until I calibrated it. Now it's a dream.

My only nit is that I can't turn down the brightness without the buzzing from the back getting too loud, so I have to decrease the brightness via the video card, which doesn't always work well.
 
They recently released some newer beta drivers which may help in this regard.

You might want to try Driver Cleaner.net to remove the nVidia drivers outright and then reinstall the beta 175 drivers instead.

I've tried the 174 drivers on both XP and Vista and they were no less stable than the 169.21/25 drivers that I've used.

Dogboy: Can the calibration reduce the saturation issues as well as brightness/hue inconsistencies? Also which calibrator combo are you using?

Regards,
10e
 
Dogboy714 said:
I can tell you that calibration will effect everything you look at. Whether or not the app you are using is "color managed" isn't relevant. I hated mine until I calibrated it. Now it's a dream.

My only nit is that I can't turn down the brightness without the buzzing from the back getting too loud, so I have to decrease the brightness via the video card, which doesn't always work well.
Click to expand...

I should add that I downloaded the Microsoft color profile management software. I then found two separate profiles for the 3007-hc. I then tried switching each of the profiles and removing them altogether.

I know another profile won't be ideal for my monitor, but each profile did exactly the same thing. There seemed to be an alteration of gamma curve generally but colors(red green) stayed overly saturated.

Inside of Photoshop Elements and Firefox 3 beta, color was toned down to normal saturation levels.

To me it seems pretty clear that calibration will not reduced out of gamut saturation issues except in color managed applications. There may have been more subtle effects generally, but nothing compared to what it does in color managed applications.



Mine Buzzes as well. But the buzzing is not that loud and tolerable, (I barely hear it over my computer fans, if using a laptop it would annoy me) and since it buzzes nearly the same at all but full brightness there is no choice as that would cook my retinas. It is like looking directly into a 60w bulb.
 
Snowdog said:
Mine Buzzes as well. But the buzzing is not that loud and tolerable, (I barely hear it over my computer fans, if using a laptop it would annoy me) and since it buzzes nearly the same at all but full brightness there is no choice as that would cook my retinas. It is like looking directly into a 60w bulb.
Click to expand...

Wear shades and earmuffs.
 
chong67 said:
I want to get this 30" monitor but I am so afraid of those uneven lightning and comments here.

What should I do?
Click to expand...
Only way to know for certain is to buy and try it. Dell's return policy is pretty good and they'll usually pay the return shipping.
 
Mr. Wolf said:
Only way to know for certain is to buy and try it. Dell's return policy is pretty good and they'll usually pay the return shipping.
Click to expand...

Dells return policy in Canada is: You pay shipping and 15% restock fee. Dell Dissatisfaction policy:

http://www1.ca.dell.com/content/topics/reftopic.aspx/gen/en/policy?c=ca&l=en&s=gen&~section=018

Total Satisfaction Return Policy

POLICY

If you are the original purchaser who bought new products directly from Dell, you may return the products in as-new condition to Dell up to 30 days after you receive them for a refund of the product purchase price if already paid.

If you are the original purchaser who bought reconditioned or refurbished products from Dell, you may return the products to Dell within 14 days after the date of packing slip or invoice for a refund or credit of the product purchase price.

In either case, the refund or credit does not include any shipping and handling charges shown on your packing slip or invoice; you are responsible for those.

THE REFUND OR CREDIT IS SUBJECT TO A FIFTEEN PERCENT (15%) RESTOCKING FEE (PLUS APPLICABLE TAXES), UNLESS OTHERWISE PROHIBITED BY LAW.
Click to expand...
 
jkuo1 said:
Yup, your quick review pretty much describes my 3007WFP-HC monitor perfectly as well. One stuck pixel, screen backlight uniformity issues, some amount of sparkle on light uniform surfaces, some white glow off angle... all issues I can live with, given all the advantages you listed.

However, I was able to adjust the garish color and black crush problem without a monitor calibration tool either. I'm running a pair of ATi cards in Crossfire mode, and through tweaking some setting in the Catalyst video drivers, I was able to adjust the color to a very satisfactory level. All I did was up the brightness to 20 to remove the black crush problem, so I can see differences in shade between ALL dark squares from 1 to 5 on the lagom site. Then I reduced the contrast from 100 to 50, which removed the pale yellow tint from whites so that whites look pure white. Changing color temperature from 6500K to 7700K and reducing color saturation down from 100 to 85 also helps immensely with over-saturated reds, and burned looking skin tones. I did all of these adjustments by eye with the help of the lagom website, and although not scientific, I am mostly very satisfied with the color on the screen now.
Click to expand...


Do you have to have a Dell to calibrate it? Do you have to run Windows?

I need a good monitor for my Mac, and I plan on running Parallels/Boot Camp. If I have to run Windows to calibrate it, can I do it this way?
 
The Dell panel is a a bare panel it has no color controls whatsoever. Calibration will depend entirely on what you can do with your graphics card settings in your OS. Nothing controls the monitor instelf in either OS. Only high end NECs/Eizo monitor are calibrated in the monitor.

It won't be any different than attempting to calibrate an Apple LCD on a mac.

That said. All apple monitors are standard sRGB color. This is non standard wider color space an it will create odd colors than you may or may not adjust to.

I didn't. I have returned the panel to Dell. I am waiting to see how much refund I get now...

If you are fussy about realistic looking color, I would avoid wide gamut panels.
 
Snowdog said:
I have returned the panel to Dell. I am waiting to see how much refund I get now...
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to hear that your Dell 3007-HC did not work out. Do you have a plan for what you are going to replace it with? It seems like if you want to stick with a 30 incher, your choices will be limited as most will still be wide gamut and potentially cost a good deal more.

Since the Nvidia drivers don't seem to have adequate color controls, have you ever considered swapping out your video card for an ATI one and see if that would have worked out better? I guess it's too late since you've already returned the monitor, but it sounds like if the lack of color controls was the only thing preventing you from keeping the monitor (especially since good color CAN be achieved on the 3007-HC), it may have been less expensive to replace the video card than the entire monitor (not to mention the shipping charges and potential restocking fee on top of that).
 
I am giving up on 30" panels as wide gamut pollution has spread there. I am thinking about qood quality sRGB panels. NEC 2090/2490.
 
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