New Amd Card Specs

Kor said:
This time were doing a double die shrink jump going tom 40nm past 32nm down to 28nm. That's an absolute shit load more transistor space and it's not unreasonable to expect an 2 fold increase in performance this time around, especially if were looking at a major (working from the number of stream processors) update in the architecture.
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Performance doesn't scale linearly with transistor count or clock speed even for the same arch. From what we know now its likely GCN will chew up more die space and use more power to get the same performance as VLIW4. The trade off is flexibility similar to Fermi and perhaps better scalability going forward.
 
If that's true, why are the TDP figures lower for the HD7 series (according to those specs)?
 
Which specs do you think are real? The ones on the first page with the XDR2 RAM?

Also you have to bear in mind that the cards will have a similar peak power limit to current cards. You won't see stock cards with 4-500w TDP's stock. Even a 250w TDP is very very high.
 
What have you seen so far that says otherwise? 250W for the HD6970 is high, but 190W for the HD7970, is not so high, that's quite a significant reduction. I'm assuming it refers to real-world power consumption like most cards, not maximum power consumption like the HD6900s (the real TDP of the HD6970 is more like 210W tops)
 
7870 and 7850 are most impressive - should have performance of 69x0 cards at 120/90w tdp which is freaking amazing.
 
ATI/AMD usually makes mouth-watering Hardware, but I think this time I will resist temptation and pass.

I'm tired of the plethora of driver problems. From enlarged cursors, to screen corruption, to Flash (with HW-accel on) crashes. The AMD forums abound with people complaining about driver problems.
If you support HW-accelerated Flash video, then why tell your customers to turn it off? I've bene having green video + browser crashes with many driver revisions (and I'm not the only one). After turning HW-accel everything is butter-smooth.

I've also been seeing screen corruption in Java Swing-based apps when resizing windows. This is unacceptable.
I don't care if this card beats an nVidia card by a few FPS in some shitty benchmark. I want it to work smoothly at times when I'm not gaming.
 
Any word on Eyefinity for the 7970?

I just started looking at the next gen cards last night, i preperation on updating from the GTX 570. Toying with the idea of eyefinity on BF3. Would one card be able to handle it?
 
Caleb said:
I'm tired of the plethora of driver problems. From enlarged cursors, to screen corruption, to Flash (with HW-accel on) crashes. The AMD forums abound with people complaining about driver problems.
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The forums are always full of people complaining about everything ever and AMD has actually been doing a pretty good job these last few years. You're overreacting.
 
Those of us who have no problems are simply not speaking up. Been using ATI graphics since the 8500, not a single driver problem but the first few babysteps down the dark path of C# implementation.

Ever look at how many people complain about PunkBuster? I've never had a problem with that one either. Never been randomly kicked or banned with a false positive by it, me and so many others are just fine.

PE to the BC to the AK.


(Do not forget Nvidia's driver and hardware problems. No intelligent frame limiter is still murdering cards in a title I'm testing, loadscreen FPS shoots up to the thousands and these people get a hard crash because the card craps itself and gets damaged, while the few of us in the beta on AMD are just fine.)
 
I agree with your first sentiment, but not the latter. Yes, the main reason so many post complaints about any product is because the people who don't have problems have no need to post at all.

However, that doesn't mean that those experiencing problems is user error. The case of punkbuster is definitely not user error, neither are the plethora of bugs in AMD drivers. Nonetheless, despite this, nvidia aren't much better.
 
Guess you can throw me in with the batch of people with no problems. I've actually been able to do more things with my AMD card than Nvidia, except for PhysX and CUDA.
 
My expectations aren't for a huge jump this generation. Probably next. I doubt it's worth it if you already have a 69xx.

Still, I'm with the others that still have a bitter taste in their mouth with regards to rambus. XDR2 looks nice on paper, but I have a hard time believing that cost won't be through the roof due to it. This looks like a good chance for nVidia to swoop in and eat up some of the price/performance market.

With regards to drivers.... to be honest the last game breaking driver issue I had was from the Voodoo2 SLI days. If the game runs without graphical anomalies, then it's not game breaking. For example, AA not working is not game breaking to me.

I've had a minimal gaming system since that era. Solid but simple motherboard, single video card, 2 sticks of RAM, and the machine before last I had an add-on sound card. Always just works.
 
I thought this new generation, both ATI and nvida, are supposed to be huge jumps?

The current gen that we have(6xxx and 5xx) were more of a refresh of the ati 5xxx and nvidia 4xx generation?
 
I know the talk is that the "low" end of the 7000 series hits first - I really hope that includes the 7950. That's the sweet spot I'm looking at to upgrade from my GTX280. Low power consumption and badass performance, mmmm

I'm fully expecting it to be in short supply for a while, i just hope I can snag one for 300-350 dollars.
 
collegeboy69us said:
I know the talk is that the "low" end of the 7000 series hits first - I really hope that includes the 7950. That's the sweet spot I'm looking at to upgrade from my GTX280. Low power consumption and badass performance, mmmm

I'm fully expecting it to be in short supply for a while, i just hope I can snag one for 300-350 dollars.
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If they follow the 6 series plan, it'll be 7850 and 7870 first, and then the 7950 and 7970 would come out later. Presumably both the 7950 and 7970 will be GCN so it makes sense they would come out together.
 
himmy said:
I thought this new generation, both ATI and nvida, are supposed to be huge jumps?

The current gen that we have(6xxx and 5xx) were more of a refresh of the ati 5xxx and nvidia 4xx generation?
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Huge jumps as in, as huge as from the HD4->HD5 or GTX2->GTX4.
 
collegeboy69us said:
I know the talk is that the "low" end of the 7000 series hits first - I really hope that includes the 7950. That's the sweet spot I'm looking at to upgrade from my GTX280. Low power consumption and badass performance, mmmm

I'm fully expecting it to be in short supply for a while, i just hope I can snag one for 300-350 dollars.
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If they go the same way they did with the 6000 series then the 7950 or equivalent will come later. lol, we are all wishing the same thing I can assure you. Hell, even a 7870 would be a huge upgrade for me with my 4890.
 
Forceman said:
Are you FPS or quality limited in games? The 580 is still awfully expensive for what you get.
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Not really, I just have that upgrade itch. 3-6 months sounds an awfully long time to wait. But I know patience will probably pay off.
 
Honestly the fps debate is pointless, what matters is that you can game and you think the game play is fluid.

The Amd 6XXX series of cards shows that Amd can make awesome graphics cards. Clearly going to 28nm tech is going to boost performance and lower power draw.

However i will say that most folks don't need more than 6870 graphics for 1080p. So unless games come out and actually tax hardware the next generation of video cards will be even more overkill. Lets face it most games are developed for consoles, therefore the graphics have to be able to run on out dated xbox 360 and ps3 graphic capability. Games will likely follow this trend, as console games are the big sellers.

but hey i'm always down with less power draw and better performance with maxed settings. Hopefully once the next generation console launch is when we will really see some great graphics.
 
I don't really need more performance than a 6850 can provide, but I'm still waiting on the 7000 series for the lower power draw, and more importantly potential new features and Antialiasing modes that might only be available on that hardware. I think I heard something about ordered grid supersampling/subsampling or something as another alternative AA method for games that don't support MSAA properly.
 
ebduncan said:
However i will say that most folks don't need more than 6870 graphics for 1080p. So unless games come out and actually tax hardware the next generation of video cards will be even more overkill.
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For those that do play the wealth of games that take more than an HD6870 to max out at 1080p though [including numerous console ports], then of course higher-end cards are worth it. To say anything on the market today is overkill is madness. Something that offers 5 times the performance of today's best cards would barely be overkill, because of the multi-display setups it would be capable of running.
 
you honestly think a console has more graphic power than a 6870? wowsers. browsers
 
Er no, where was that implied? Console ports to the PC are far more demanding than them running natively on their consoles, by virtue of how shoddily they are converted.
 
well guess that is a good way to retract your statement.

Anyways yes your right about mutiple displays or big single screen. Right now a overclocked 6870 is more than enough for 99.5% of all games at 1080p, the most notable exception would be dragon age II. Even so game play experience is still good.

The 6970's and the 6950's are more for multiple displays and large single screens. Next gen hardware is really overkill for today's games unless they do something stunning in the graphics department. Odds are mid range next gen hardware will be able to power big single screen setups, and do just fine in multiple display environments. The high end cards will likely be a single slot solution for eye infinity.

Either way console games run just fine on the pc, its not the shoddy conversation, as they are all compiled by the same compiler. Hardware is different and the operating system is different but in all its all based on x86. The biggest problem with conversion is controls and graphic settings.
 
No retraction at all. People seem to get the idea that because most PC games are console ports, and consoles use much weaker hardware, that there is no reason for a PC gamer to use high-end hardware, and it simply isn't true. An overclocked HD6870 may well be about enough at 1080p, but a stock HD6870? maybe not. I'm well aware which forum this is, but for long-term longevity's sake I'd always take a more expensive card over overclocking a slower one. You wouldn't be maxing out Metro 2033, Crysis 2 or The Witcher 2 at that res with one HD6870, and probably not Battlefield 3 either.
 
himmy said:
Any word on Eyefinity for the 7970?

I just started looking at the next gen cards last night, i preperation on updating from the GTX 570. Toying with the idea of eyefinity on BF3. Would one card be able to handle it?
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Pretty sure there will be eyefinity on these cards.

How big screens, and what kind of framerates/visuals are you after? 3 screens would work with lower settings/no AA and dips in framerate. But if you want larger monitors with constant 60 fps and prettier visuals, i'd definately look at 2 (or more). Depends how good they are.
 
7870 looks mighty tasty... basically a 6950 + 10% overclock at half the power. Sounds perfect for my HTPC as long as it is no longer than a 5850 :)
 
Or, more succinctly - a 6970 at half the power. The TDP is still 120W on the 7870 (according to the specs), more like two thirds that of a 6950, but still very impressive for the performance. That's going to be the biggest advantage of this gen, not really increased performance.
 
samuelmorris said:
Or, more succinctly - a 6970 at half the power. The TDP is still 120W on the 7870 (according to the specs), more like two thirds that of a 6950, but still very impressive for the performance. That's going to be the biggest advantage of this gen, not really increased performance.
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My bad, meant to say 6970 + 10% OC.. though I guess it is really more like 5-8%. Either way, yes, that kind of power for that kind of power is awesome.
 
We shall see. Being the high midrange offering, I'd be surprised if it tops the previous best (bearing in mind how the HD5700 series compared to their HD4800 equivalents, and likewise for HD6800 vs HD5800). It would seem likely that they'll sit about 5% behind, as that's been the going trend for the last couple of years.
 
samuelmorris said:
We shall see. Being the high midrange offering, I'd be surprised if it tops the previous best (bearing in mind how the HD5700 series compared to their HD4800 equivalents, and likewise for HD6800 vs HD5800). It would seem likely that they'll sit about 5% behind, as that's been the going trend for the last couple of years.
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5700 to 4700 and 6800 to 5700 would be the proper comparisons, as that is what they were set up to replace.
 
No, I'm comparing like-for-like performance, not the respective positions in the product lineup. The HD6900 and HD7800 series should perform very similar. They do not sit in the same position in the product lineup!
 
samuelmorris said:
Or, more succinctly - a 6970 at half the power. The TDP is still 120W on the 7870 (according to the specs), more like two thirds that of a 6950, but still very impressive for the performance. That's going to be the biggest advantage of this gen, not really increased performance.
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Wasnt that what AMD said a while back the focus was going to be?
 
It's been AMD's focus for years, ever since after the HD2900 fiasco. Every successive generation since then AMD cards have used less power than the competition,
HD3870: 110W, 8800GTX: 150W (not a fair trade I know, but the HD2/3 series wasn't exactly a great architectire)
HD4870: 150W, GTX280: 235W (That is a fair comparison, the 280 was 10% faster for 60% more power consumption)
HD5870: 188W, GTX480: 250W
HD6970: 210W (real-world, not max), GTX580: 244W

I have absolutely no doubt that the GTX680 (if it's called that) will be faster than the HD7970, but I also have almost no doubt that it will use more power. AMD go performance per-watt, nvidia go performance.
 
I'm very interested to see how 2x 7970's in crossfire will compare to 3x 6970's or 6990 + 6970 in trifire.....
 
2048 cores seem low for the high-end model.

dont forget that 5870 launched with 1600 cores, twice as many than the previous gpu.

im guessing we still dont know jack at this point, if amd doesnt launch their high-end gpu with at least 2500+ cores it wont be worth to upgrade if you already have a nice crossfire setup.
 
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