New AGP Card or Invest in a new system

E

Epsilon

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Joined
Mar 12, 2006
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Ok so I have been struggling for the last two days of this question spawned from the desire to play Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. I built a computer 3 years ago and It has:
Athlon Xp 2200
Geforce 4 ti4600
512 PC 2700 Ram
Motherboard supports AGP 4X

So I decided it was time to upgrade to a great AGP graphics card so as to keep the rest of my components and keep costs down. But then I figured if i get say an eVGA 256-A8-N507 Geforce 7800GS CO Edition 256MB GDDR3 AGP 4X/8X Video Card Model #: 256-A8-N507 for $300 will it be crippled by my processor and lack of ram. So It will cost me another $50 for a 512 stick of ram to boost me to 1Gig. Ok not a huge dent in the wallet, but what about the processor. I no longer remember or even know the new conversions between AMD and Intel (all I know AMD runs at a lower clock speed or something) but I don't know what I would need to get to not cripple the GPU.

Am I just throwing myself into a hopeless pit of confusion or is this a viable option to get to play new games in all of there glory? Also price is a big factor. I don't want to go spending another grand and a half building another "super computer" only to have it obsolete a year down the road. I would like to spend no more than 500; 400 is best.

If upgrading via AGP is not the way to go, will grabing a pci e mobo, a Athlon 64 processor and and Leadtek PX7600 GT Geforce 7600GT 256MB PCI Express x16 do me well? Even with only 512 or maybe 1 gig of pc 2700 ram?

When configuring new systems i seem to end up in the $1000 range for systems with these capabilities so I just got so confused and decided to throw this up and see if anyone can help me see my way out of this.

Thanks in advance for any help
 
It is time to consider a whole new build. That XP2200 is very very slow. It will be a huge bottleneck.
 
Met-AL said:
It is time to consider a whole new build. That XP2200 is very very slow. It will be a huge bottleneck.
Click to expand...

Plus the m/b only supports a 4x AGP slot.

Newegg.com:

AMD A64 3000+ (1.8 GHz) cpu $110.00

EVGA 133-K8-NF41, nForce 4, socket 939 m/b, 2x PCI Express x16 (SLI) m/b $79.00

2x 512 mb (1 gb) Corsair Value Select DDR 400, PC3200 memory $79.99

XFX PV-T71G-UDF7 GeForce 7900 GT, x16 $279.99

Total: $549.97

This setup will support you for a while, and is expandable for the future.

You may need a new powersupply, depending on what you have now, in regards to wattage, and especially if you eventually go SLI later.


.
 
GoHack said:
You may need a new powersupply, depending on what you have now, in regards to wattage, and especially if you eventually go SLI later.
Click to expand...
Probably should get a new PSU right away, as the A-XP rig most likely has a 20-pin PSU, and the new build would want a 24-pin psu.
 
Ok, since i first posted I began to lean toward the new system and your comments have helped alot. I do however have a few questions that are more for my general knowledge so I can put some of this hardware into perspective.

First what would the Athlon xp 3000+ be equivalent to in Pentium processors and since it runs at 1.8ghz when pentiums run at say 3.2, i forget how they keep up.

Second: how is the XFX PV-T71G-UDF7 GeForce 7900 GT, x16 @ $279.99 cheaper than the 7600GT which is $284.00 after rebate? is there something im not getting here?

Third: A quick explanation of the difference between the athlon64 and athlon 64 X2 processors.
 
The 7600gt is as low as $149.00 after rebate now,check your pricing again.
 
Ok mate allow me.
1) the athlon 3000 will perform the same as a pentium 3 gig. hence its is called a 3000. if you are going for a new system, look at opteron 146 chips, (unless u have huge budget thenlook at 165) make sure you lean towards the socket 939 not the 754. (new socket AM2 released this year)
2) the 7600 is whack! dont even consider it. the cards you want are xfx 7900gt is Really good. any 7900 is good. 7800 are also very good. if budget is lower look at 6800GT or ultra. not gs or any other type. if budget is lower again. look at the 6600GT. the end bits (GT GS GTX) are very important you only want GT or GTX.
3) if you want to wait a little longer before you rebuild then maybe consider a ATI Radeon 9800 Pro (make sure it is a pro) you can get these in AGP for a very good price and they will play many of the latest games inc BF2 on medium settings.

Let us know what you do.
 
I put together a inexpensive system for one of my kids to play oblivion.While not the best, it works and cost about what a 7900gt goes for.

3000+ sempron $60
TUL pcie mobo refurb $30
1 gig ram $50
7600gt $160
 
midlife chav said:
Ok mate allow me.
1) the athlon 3000 will perform the same as a pentium 3 gig. hence its is called a 3000. if you are going for a new system, look at opteron 146 chips, (unless u have huge budget thenlook at 165) make sure you lean towards the socket 939 not the 754. (new socket AM2 released this year)
2) the 7600 is whack! dont even consider it. the cards you want are xfx 7900gt is Really good. any 7900 is good. 7800 are also very good. if budget is lower look at 6800GT or ultra. not gs or any other type. if budget is lower again. look at the 6600GT. the end bits (GT GS GTX) are very important you only want GT or GTX.
Click to expand...


Lol, so wait, what crack have you been smoking?

1) Totally incorrect. The Athlon XP 3000 is a fine, fine chip, and easily levels a PIII and most 478 P4s. I have no idea where you got your data at but its is very, very wrong.

2) Also incorrect. The 7600gt prefoms as well as a 6800 Ultra (so I hear), which makes it damn well worth the money. Keep in mind, not everyone wants twin 7900GT in SLi. Hes running a mobo with AGP 4X right now, I really, really don't think suggesting him the highest grade stuff is smart. Not only may he not need it, he may not be able to afford it.

All in all, you should prolly update your system now...but nothing fantastic. A Athlon 64 3000+ (trust me, its more powerful then a PIII :p ), 7600GT/6600GT, and a gig of cheap RAM will do you wonders. :)
 
You can go both ways. There are smart upgrades and will be faster then what You ahve. Though once invested it's wasted money no upgrades after it are possible.

On other hand new system will be upgradable. PCI-e has future. Long one I gues.

Save money and cahnge everything.




MD
 
With the A64 3000+, you can run 32 bit applications now, and later run 64 w/an upgrade to Vista. You can also later replace it w/a dual core, or just a faster single core.

The EVGA m/b is not only a good price, especially when you consider what you are getting for the money, 2x 16x PCI-e slots, SLI support, Dual Core support, 32/64 bit support, and the nForce 4 chipset, all for future expansion.

That 7900 GT is cheaper than what you originally wanted, but faster as well. Later, if you wish, you can get a second one for SLI.

As for why the 7900 GT is cheaper than the 7600 GT? Not being familiar w/the 7600 GT, I can't comment on it vs. the 7900 GT, but w/the 7900 GT vs. the 7800 GT, Nvidia has cut the manufacturing cost's w/the 7900's GPU, due to improvements in it's design. Plus ATI is giving it a run for it's money at the moment, so that too has forced Nvidia to lower it's prices.

Then that 2x 512 mb (1 gb) Corsair Value Select DDR 400, PC3200 memory is pretty good, especially for the price.

This system will last you a while.

As I pointed out earlier, you will most likely need a power supply upgrade, and RavenD is correct about the connector type. So something in the 400 to 450 watt range, for just the single video card, if you plan to stay w/just that, or a 500 to 550 watt, for dual video cards. You probably talking around $85.00 for the 400-450 watt, and a little over $100, for a 500-550 watt. Antec is a good name. Stay away from the cheap, no-name ones. You don't know what your getting w/them, in regards to their output.

Go luck w/whatever you go with. ;)

.
 
Your system is fine as long as your expectations aren't too high. Coming from a TI 4600, I doubt they are. Just add a stick of RAM, upgrade your PSU, and pick up a used 6800GT somewhere. Make sure you're overclocking that 2200+ as well. Then sell your TI 4600. The entire upgrade should only cost around $250.

Here's what an Athlon XP 2200+ can do in Doom 3 with a 6800 Ultra:

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7

Overclock your 2200+ and a used 6800 GT to Ultra speeds and game away.
 
CHAoS_NiNJA said:
Lol, so wait, what crack have you been smoking?

1) Totally incorrect. The Athlon XP 3000 is a fine, fine chip, and easily levels a PIII and most 478 P4s. I have no idea where you got your data at but its is very, very wrong.

2) Also incorrect. The 7600gt prefoms as well as a 6800 Ultra (so I hear), which makes it damn well worth the money. Keep in mind, not everyone wants twin 7900GT in SLi. Hes running a mobo with AGP 4X right now, I really, really don't think suggesting him the highest grade stuff is smart. Not only may he not need it, he may not be able to afford it.

All in all, you should prolly update your system now...but nothing fantastic. A Athlon 64 3000+ (trust me, its more powerful then a PIII :p ), 7600GT/6600GT, and a gig of cheap RAM will do you wonders. :)
Click to expand...

How old are you like 12?at what stage did i say anything about a amd 3000 being bad...? no didnt think so. it is a fine choice. just make sure you get the 939 not the 754. as for a 7600 being as good as a 6800 ultra...so you hear. you hear wrong.
as i said in my post IF U R ON A BUDGET LOOK AT THE 6600GT in the uk you can get a good second hand one for under £50. you can play bf2 with all medium settings and get good frame rates...

google the word fool you see a pic of CHAoS_NiNJA
 
midlife chav said:
How old are you like 12?at what stage did i say anything about a amd 3000 being bad...? no didnt think so. it is a fine choice. just make sure you get the 939 not the 754. as for a 7600 being as good as a 6800 ultra...so you hear. you hear wrong.
as i said in my post IF U R ON A BUDGET LOOK AT THE 6600GT in the uk you can get a good second hand one for under £50. you can play bf2 with all medium settings and get good frame rates...

google the word fool you see a pic of CHAoS_NiNJA
Click to expand...

Well, if you look at what you typed:

midlife chav said:
Ok mate allow me.
1) the athlon 3000 will perform the same as a pentium 3 gig. hence its is called a 3000..
Click to expand...

He and probably everyone else thought you were refering to a Pentium III 1Ghz CPU. Maybe try to throw just a tad bit of grammar and punctuation into what you type and just a smidget of correct capitalization, and the rest of us may understand what the heck you mean. :D
 
Met-AL said:
Well, if you look at what you typed:



He and probably everyone else thought you were refering to a Pentium III 1Ghz CPU. Maybe try to throw just a tad bit of grammar and punctuation into what you type and just a smidget of correct capitalization, and the rest of us may understand what the heck you mean. :D
Click to expand...

Haa haahaaa sorry yes now i see, i thought this was an enthusiast forum, forgot all about those old p3's thought we were all on same wagon! sorry.
yes AMD call there chips AMD 3000 even though it only runs stock speed of about 1.8 because if they called it a AMD 1800 they would loose the marketing war. They are benchmarked by independant authorities and test ed to preform the equivilent to a pentium chip that runs at 3000 mhz. so what i was trying to say is even though the amd has lower clocks it performs as good, if not better than the P4's.

Got there in the end.
 
midlife chav said:
Ok mate allow me.
1) the athlon 3000 will perform the same as a pentium 3 gig. hence its is called a 3000. if you are going for a new system, look at opteron 146 chips, (unless u have huge budget thenlook at 165) make sure you lean towards the socket 939 not the 754. (new socket AM2 released this year)
2) the 7600 is whack! dont even consider it. the cards you want are xfx 7900gt is Really good. any 7900 is good. 7800 are also very good. if budget is lower look at 6800GT or ultra. not gs or any other type. if budget is lower again. look at the 6600GT. the end bits (GT GS GTX) are very important you only want GT or GTX.
3) if you want to wait a little longer before you rebuild then maybe consider a ATI Radeon 9800 Pro (make sure it is a pro) you can get these in AGP for a very good price and they will play many of the latest games inc BF2 on medium settings.

Let us know what you do.
Click to expand...

Hmm....

1) Athlon 64 3000+ ~ Pentium 4 3.0 Ghz.

2) 7600GT > 6800Ultra > 6800GT > 6800GS > 6800Nu > 6600GT. The 7600GT is a GREAT card for the cash, no if ands or buts about it. I see it as being better than the 6800ultra.

3) ZOMG! A good point :p.
 
Well you have an agp 4x =[
I wouldn't even bother upgrading AGP...
might as well get a new com all together and this time around, buy wisely the parts.
 
If you have the cash now do it now. If you wait and only upgrade a little you might not have the cash down the road to do a complete overhaul. Spending tall dollars to put off an overhaul is not something I would recommend because your eventually going to spend more money over time for less of a system.
 
i think you should save up, and go for a new system. If you pick your parts carefully you can get a real nice system for not too much, and still have a viable upgrade path later.
 
I used to go through a lot of effort upgrading systems to keep them running until they eventually turned to dust. It generally ended in a trail of spare use parts, that could have been very happy in some kind of computer system, except that they belonged in an older motherboard type that was either no longer sold or was too old to waste money on. In the end, it was better to wait and then start over with a whole new system. Being able to upgrade is nice still, but it's also nice to take an entire old machine and give it a new function or give it to a computerless relative.
 
You could split that $1000 system up into two phases.

Buy one of those motherboards that has both a AGP slot and PCIx 16x slot. So you can keep your current card and use the best processor you want right now, and grab faster and newer memory, maybe a new power supply too.

Then when the DX10 cards come out, dump another $500 into one of those and be current for the next few years from that point on.

You'll get the benefit of a faster processor and memory now, and faster everything when the newer cards come out later this year.
 
Ok, Great Input.
I have decided on the following:
- eVGA 133-K8-NF41 Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard = $79
- CORSAIR XMS 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) = $74
- AMD Athlon 64 3000+ Venice 2000MHz HT Socket 939 = $110
- XFX PV-T71G-UDE7 GeForce 7900 GT EXTREME (520MHz) 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card = $264
- MSI TurboStream 450W ATX12V 450W Power Supply = $40 (SLI ready)
- Sky Hawk/Eagle Tech PSR5601W-SL ATXALUMGT Silver Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case = $30 (cheap lite case to replace my Full tower steel)

Total = $597 A little more than what I originally planned on spending, but I agree that It would be smarter to go ahead and upgrade in reguards to future expansion.

Any final thoughts? Changes that should be made?

Oh and a quick thought,a 20+4 PIN PSU will work with this right? I don't need a designated 24 PIN PSU do I? Sorry I feel like I have digressed in my computer knowledge way to much to be sure of myself at this point.

Thanks again for all the help
 
You may want more of a CPU, but I think you got your list pretty well done. Nothing wastefull there as far as I can tell.
 
Well it looks like the PRO 7600 gang have won me over, maybe i am way way out on that one. i alsways thought they were budget cards. my theory is get yesterdays top cards, i still have a 9800 pro in one system, those cards are about 3 years old now. still plays far cry and BF2 though.

Ok mate good system, have to agree on the cpu point though, it is the biggest weak spot in that build. you have opted for a AMD 3000 i think (but not sure) these run at 1.8. now i am not sure again but in the good old usa an opteron 146 wont cost to much more, this will give a stock speed of 2 gig and has a 1 meg L2 cache. ( not to mention that even the crap ones will clock up to 2.6) if you get an opteron and you think in a years time that you need more power then boom at your finger tips!

Also, if i were you... 1 gig of ram is ok 2 gig is perfect. instead of buying 2 x 512 and making best use of the dual channel capabilitys, buy 1 single channel 1024 stick, then in 6 months when funds allow you can beef it up to 2 gig buy adding a new stick, if your board holds up to 4 dimms then it isnt a big problem but most people will agree 2 is better than 4.
 
That corsair is a single stick, and I was planning exactly what you said. Maybe buy another gig down the road. Oh and the M/B has 4 dimms anyway.

As for the Processor, thats the subject i know least about, I stopped keeping track of all the new hardware advances before all the semperons, opterons, and so forth came about. So i don't understand the advantage of getting an opteron over the 3000+ being as the 3000+ runs at 2000mhz while the 146 runs at only 1000mhz but has 512mb more L2 Cache. Also on newegg the 146 came up as around $230 while the 3000+ is only $110.

Does anyone second midlife chav's suggestion on this one? If so why?
 
Epsilon
That is a nice setup for the price!The extra $$ spent on the video card will make a difference playing oblivion.
You might be able to find a deal in the "for sale" section on an operteron but even if you don't upgrade the cpu you will notice a big difference in performance :D
 
Im interested in the 3500, if you could have him contact me or PM me somewhere I could get hold of him that would be great.
 
I replied to his thread over there to get in contact with you.
 
Auze said:
Buy one of those motherboards that has both a AGP slot and PCIx 16x slot. So you can keep your current card and use the best processor you want right now, and grab faster and newer memory, maybe a new power supply too.
Click to expand...
Please tell me or give me links to (preferably PM me) this type of board, I've read about them but have yet to see them for sale.
TIA!!
 
Newegg has about 4 or so last I looked. Not many people think they exist, but they do.

I know Asrock makes one. I'll try and find a link.

Here
 
OK another quick question, if i get the dual MB with both AGP and PCI-E, put in the 3500 Venus, add a gig of ram and plug in my current graphics card until the new ones with direct X 10 come out... How long will I have to wait?

I managed to get oblivion working on my school laptop... Didn't know it was that powerful actually. So would it be better to wait for the next gen grahics cards to come out or would is it not really worth it?

Sorry for so many different scenarios. But since I have the option now the get the 3500 Venus for cheap I don't really want to pass it up.

BTW I replied yo your PM on the 3500 chip.
 
GoHack said:
Plus the m/b only supports a 4x AGP slot.

Newegg.com:

AMD A64 3000+ (1.8 GHz) cpu $110.00

EVGA 133-K8-NF41, nForce 4, socket 939 m/b, 2x PCI Express x16 (SLI) m/b $79.00

2x 512 mb (1 gb) Corsair Value Select DDR 400, PC3200 memory $79.99

XFX PV-T71G-UDF7 GeForce 7900 GT, x16 $279.99

Total: $549.97

This setup will support you for a while, and is expandable for the future.

You may need a new powersupply, depending on what you have now, in regards to wattage, and especially if you eventually go SLI later.


.
Click to expand...

I don't recommend pairing a 7900GT 256MB of onboard memory with only 1GB of PC3200 memory.

Games like Battlefield 2, F.E.A.R, Quake4 and a few others will get intermittant jerking as the memory usage poors into Hard Drive swapping (because those games use more then the 256MB of ram available on the 7900GT).

So x1800XT 512MB with 1GB of RAM or 7900GT with 2GB of RAM.

Your call...

Here's an article on the matter.
512MB vs. 256MB
 
Ok so I typed a reply a little while back and apparently it didn't go through so here it is again.

I am thinking about going with the x1800XT 512MB rather than the 7900GT, sticking with 1Gig of ram. It seems like the x1800XT is a better card that is also "future proof" in some respects. It seems like alot of people on here prefered the 7900 or 7800 cards but after reading that article and knowing that once I upgrade thats going the be it for a long while, the 512 card just seems to be the better buy. I am looking at the ATI 100-435705 Radeon X1800XT 512MB for $290
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102624
ElMoIsEviL - Thanks alot for the link to that article. It was very informative.

As it sits now I am not going to be able to upgrade for just $500. This is hopefully going to be the final:
eVGA 133-K8-NF41 Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - $79
CORSAIR XMS 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered System Memory Model CMX1024-3200 - $76
Antec TRUEPOWERII TPII-480 ATX12V 480W Power Supply - $77
AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Venice - $135
ATI 100-435705 Radeon X1800XT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 VIVO PCI Express x16 Video Card - $290

System Total = $657 All prices are Newegg. Most have special deals or discounts. Currently looking through some different PSUs trying to get a better price.

The biggest problem I am having atm is deciding whether the $35 price increase for the X1800XT is worth it over the XFX PV-T71G-UDE7 GeForce 7900 GT EXTREME (520MHz). Any significant factors I should be aware of?
 
It's the 1900XTX that people around here claim is future proof.

Me, I am waiting for DX10 cards. That is why I have the ASrock board so I can continue to use my X800XT AIW which is fine for Fear and BF2.
 
Epsilon said:
Ok so I typed a reply a little while back and apparently it didn't go through so here it is again.

I am thinking about going with the x1800XT 512MB rather than the 7900GT, sticking with 1Gig of ram. It seems like the x1800XT is a better card that is also "future proof" in some respects. It seems like alot of people on here prefered the 7900 or 7800 cards but after reading that article and knowing that once I upgrade thats going the be it for a long while, the 512 card just seems to be the better buy. I am looking at the ATI 100-435705 Radeon X1800XT 512MB for $290
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102624
ElMoIsEviL - Thanks alot for the link to that article. It was very informative.

As it sits now I am not going to be able to upgrade for just $500. This is hopefully going to be the final:
eVGA 133-K8-NF41 Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - $79
CORSAIR XMS 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered System Memory Model CMX1024-3200 - $76
Antec TRUEPOWERII TPII-480 ATX12V 480W Power Supply - $77
AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Venice - $135
ATI 100-435705 Radeon X1800XT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 VIVO PCI Express x16 Video Card - $290

System Total = $657 All prices are Newegg. Most have special deals or discounts. Currently looking through some different PSUs trying to get a better price.

The biggest problem I am having atm is deciding whether the $35 price increase for the X1800XT is worth it over the XFX PV-T71G-UDE7 GeForce 7900 GT EXTREME (520MHz). Any significant factors I should be aware of?
Click to expand...


You won't be able to run any ATI card in SLI, just to let you know, should you later on decide to do it. ATI has their own version of SLI, which requires m/b's w/their chipsets.

If you don't plan to do it, then the x1800XT should be OK, if that's what you want.
.
 
Thanks for the advice... I didn't realize that. In order to get a good crossfire MB Its going to cost me even more. I think I am just better of sticking with the 7900GT and see what happens down the road.
 
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