New 5950x build with Corsair Vengeance RGB docp no go

Island

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Greetings fellas. Just got my new puter built finally. 5950X with a Asus B550 e gaming board and 32 Gb of Corsair RGb vengeance 3600 mem. Been running fine but for some reason, I cannot boot if I enable DOCP mode. Best I can do is set it to 3200 in the bios and it is HCI and memtest86 stable. Asus sets the timings very loose though. I tried thaiphoon and dram calc, but my Corsair memory is Nanya type mem and isn't even listed so it was more of a chore trying to figure it out. I can overclock stable to 4.6 at 3200 and everything runs great. Did a lot of research and read up on 2 vs 4 dimms sticks and was thinking of going with 2 16 GB sticks as my board is "daisy chained" for the memory but really don't know what to do. Think maybe 3200 is good enough and I should just call it a day. Any of u guys have any thoughts on why I can't boot with XMP/DOCP enabled?
 

thebufenator

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Set docp so that timings are set, then manually set clock speed to 3266. Reboot and test. Continue to inch up, raise voltage as needed.
 

learners permit

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Make sure fclk is changing as well as memclk so they stay at 1:1. Can't remember where but someone posted that bug is present in some of the new bios out there.
 

Island

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Thanks for all the replies fellas. I built my rig around Corsair peripherals as "yeah" I like the RGB bling, so with ICUE, i'm kinda stuck with Corsair mem. The kit I have is listed on Asus's QVL and it's a newer B550 e-gaming but I would assume most memory that works on X570 would be fine for this board. Here's the memory I have

CMW16GX4M2Z3600C18​

  • DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800)
  • Timing 18-22-22-42
  • CAS Latency 18
  • Voltage 1.35V
  • AMD Ryzen Ready
  • Compatible with AMD Ryzen Series CPU
Was thinking about going with 2 16GB kits with the same specs as I have heard it's better and not as hard on the imc using 2 sticks with XMP/DOCP. Ryzen 5000 is best with FCLK at 1800 correct? So, 3600 mem I guess is the sweet spot. Would u guys though choose 3200 sticks with a tighter timings and Cas 14/16? If I could get these sticks to post with DOCP I would just call it a day but it's a little irritating that I can't get them to run at their advertised spec, and to top it off setting them to 3200, Mobo sets timings to like 22....
 

BrotherMichigan

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Those sticks are on the QVL, but not in a 4-DIMM configuration. Download Thaiphoon burner, confirm the ICs used on those sticks (should be Micron E-Die), and then use Ryzen DRAM Calculator (read the guide here) to get something approaching proper timings and voltages required to get this configuration to work.
 

Island

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Those sticks are on the QVL, but not in a 4-DIMM configuration. Download Thaiphoon burner, confirm the ICs used on those sticks (should be Micron E-Die), and then use Ryzen DRAM Calculator (read the guide here) to get something approaching proper timings and voltages required to get this configuration to work.
Thanks for the reply Brother. I tried using thaiphhon and dram calc. It listed my dimms as Nanya technology. Couldn't find it in the drop down list or any info online for that matter. This is my first AMD build as I've always been Intel so I am a little hesitant to tweak things as rig is running very stable at stock and I game at 4k on a 3090 so I guess tweaking memory timings is a little silly

That being said, I did set DOCP again and conservatively bumped the dram voltage to 1.36 and it did post into windows. But I could tell things were a little iffy when my Razer synanpse would not load and then after booting up memtest86, it crashed after less then a minute. Setting back to default and eveything is purring right along. I wonder if I should just get 2 16GB sticks of the 3600 or just go with cas 14, 4 sticks of 3200? Sucks because I know this RAM ain't B-die but can't even run it at it's advertized speed. System defaults to 2133 and I can up it to 3200 which runs mem test stable, but Bios sets the timings to 22..... I just want to set it and forget it, but not hitting 3600 bugs me
 

Island

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Updated question on the QVL page is lists socket support. So if I see 1/2 I would assume 2 dimms and if I see 1/2/4 is supports all 4 dimms tested and QVL approved correct?
 

thesmokingman

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  • DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800)
  • Timing 18-22-22-42
Those are some poor timings... so I wouldn't expect much from those dimms.
 

thebufenator

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If 1.36 made it to windows, try 1.37 or a little more. Also maybe bunch soc voltage slightly
 

Island

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Thanks for all the replies. Just wanted to test the QVL, so I pulled out 2 sticks and she booted fine into windows at stock DOCP settings. Ran a few tests and no crashes. No real gain from the limited tests I did but system and windows seem to be a little snappier, albeit it's probably placebo as now I feel better that it's running at advertised speeds. Yeah, I know the timings on these chips aren't great, but I'm more of a gamer and I play at 4k on an LG CX oled with a 3090, so memory should not be my limiting factor.

Did a quick overclock in the bios and was able to get all core overclock of 4600 on my 5950X at 1.3 volts. I am a complete noob with AMD, but this system I can definitely say blows away my trusty old 8700K/Z370 build I had for the last 3 years! I may just go with 16Gb and use 2 dimm slots if these chips pass HCI mem test. Don't see the need for anything over 16 GB for gaming.

Just wanted to have the extra with 32, but if 4 dimms is wonky with Ryzen and B550, then what's the point? Crazy thing is I just built my friends rig 2 weeks ago with a 10700K and using these same sticks I booted with XMP after installing windows without one issue to 5.1 GHZ stable.....
 

BrotherMichigan

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Thanks for the reply Brother. I tried using thaiphhon and dram calc. It listed my dimms as Nanya technology. Couldn't find it in the drop down list or any info online for that matter.

Make sure you're on the latest version of Thaiphoon Burner; the data is updated pretty regularly. I have a set of Micron E-Die sticks that it couldn't identify using a version just two minor versions out of date that it fully identifies with the newest version. Even if that doesn't work though, I'm reasonably sure those are E-Die and you can still use Ryzen DRAM calculator to get them running properly.
 

thesmokingman

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Thanks for all the replies. Just wanted to test the QVL, so I pulled out 2 sticks and she booted fine into windows at stock DOCP settings. Ran a few tests and no crashes. No real gain from the limited tests I did but system and windows seem to be a little snappier, albeit it's probably placebo as now I feel better that it's running at advertised speeds. Yeah, I know the timings on these chips aren't great, but I'm more of a gamer and I play at 4k on an LG CX oled with a 3090, so memory should not be my limiting factor.

Did a quick overclock in the bios and was able to get all core overclock of 4600 on my 5950X at 1.3 volts. I am a complete noob with AMD, but this system I can definitely say blows away my trusty old 8700K/Z370 build I had for the last 3 years! I may just go with 16Gb and use 2 dimm slots if these chips pass HCI mem test. Don't see the need for anything over 16 GB for gaming.

Just wanted to have the extra with 32, but if 4 dimms is wonky with Ryzen and B550, then what's the point? Crazy thing is I just built my friends rig 2 weeks ago with a 10700K and using these same sticks I booted with XMP after installing windows without one issue to 5.1 GHZ stable.....
There's nothing wrong with 4 dimms. The key is 4 ranks, you can get there via 2 dual rank sticks or 4 single rank sticks. Your issue is your ram is not very good, and imo rather unbalanced given your top end cpu. The timings are a dead giveaway they are less than stellar IC's, Nanya.

If you did go with different dimms, I suggest ya get the fastest you can afford. I've used many variants of g.skill b-dies with great success. I'm currently using 4000mhz 2x16gb cas 17 TridentZ. They can easily run 3600 cas14, 3800 cas 16 or 4000 cas 17/18 although 4000mhz takes a bit of fiddling on Zen 3. On the flip side I have quite a few sets of TridentZ to TridentNeos that all run great. They're basically all the same if they're b-dies. My set from 2017 for Intel runs on Ryzen flawless. Also pro tip, I avoid Corsair ram like the fking plague cuz you never know what shit ic they stuck in the dimms and end up wasting mass amount sof time trying to figure it out and tweak to to run.

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820374018?Item=N82E16820374018
 

Island

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There's nothing wrong with 4 dimms. The key is 4 ranks, you can get there via 2 dual rank sticks or 4 single rank sticks. Your issue is your ram is not very good, and imo rather unbalanced given your top end cpu. The timings are a dead giveaway they are less than stellar IC's, Nanya.

If you did go with different dimms, I suggest ya get the fastest you can afford. I've used many variants of g.skill b-dies with great success. I'm currently using 4000mhz 2x16gb cas 17 TridentZ. They can easily run 3600 cas14, 3800 cas 16 or 4000 cas 17/18 although 4000mhz takes a bit of fiddling on Zen 3. On the flip side I have quite a few sets of TridentZ to TridentNeos that all run great. They're basically all the same if they're b-dies. My set from 2017 for Intel runs on Ryzen flawless. Also pro tip, I avoid Corsair ram like the fking plague cuz you never know what shit ic they stuck in the dimms and end up wasting mass amount sof time trying to figure it out and tweak to to run.

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820374018?Item=N82E16820374018
Hey thanks for the reply....Well, now u got me thinking.... Honestly, I went with the Corsair ram because I have 10 QL fans, Capellix 360 cooler in a Lian-li dynamic XL, so having it all sync with ICUE is a plus for me. I work hard and have a good job so money isn't an issue but don't like to throw it away either. Those Trident's u linked on Newegg would work with my setup? U think I will notice that much more benefit? I will get 4 of them if it does have a significant impact. Thanks again
 

thesmokingman

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Hey thanks for the reply....Well, now u got me thinking.... Honestly, I went with the Corsair ram because I have 10 QL fans, Capellix 360 cooler in a Lian-li dynamic XL, so having it all sync with ICUE is a plus for me. I work hard and have a good job so money isn't an issue but don't like to throw it away either. Those Trident's u linked on Newegg would work with my setup? U think I will notice that much more benefit? I will get 4 of them if it does have a significant impact. Thanks again
You don't have to get those, just linked what I used personally. However there's a line here regarding max performance and ranks. Four ranks total gives the best performance. And you get there by two dual rank dimms or four single rank dimms, both equals four ranks. Now if you go with the sticks I linked with two sets, you'll be at eight ranks since each kit is four ranks, two dual ranks. At that point, you will be giving up some performance for the much higher density. And generally speaking ppl who are looking at 64gb and higher memory are not consumed with getting max performance. Thus the question you need to ask yourself is what's more important, maxing performance or more ram density? I'll add that you won't need more than 32gb unless you are into production work type stuff like video editing, rendering and the like.
 

Island

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You don't have to get those, just linked what I used personally. However there's a line here regarding max performance and ranks. Four ranks total gives the best performance. And you get there by two dual rank dimms or four single rank dimms, both equals four ranks. Now if you go with the sticks I linked with two sets, you'll be at eight ranks since each kit is four ranks, two dual ranks. At that point, you will be giving up some performance for the much higher density. And generally speaking ppl who are looking at 64gb and higher memory are not consumed with getting max performance. Thus the question you need to ask yourself is what's more important, maxing performance or more ram density? I'll add that you won't need more than 32gb unless you are into production work type stuff like video editing, rendering and the like.
Thanks for the reply and help Smoke-Really appreciate it. Checking on Asus QVL. Alot of the 3600 Trident's have the same timings as mine and are Hynix Ic. The 3600 Samsung I looked up are back ordered and only rated for 2 slots for DOCP. I know what your talking about the 4 ranks with single/dual. I did watch the GN youtube vid that left me confused but honestly if I can run stable with these Corsair 2 dimms at 3600 even with the higher timings, and can still get an all core overclock of 4.6-4.7 on my 5950X, would it be that much more beneficial going with the better ram? I know, first world problem.... Thanks again!

Wonder if I should just stick the other 2 dimms back in, set Voltage to 1.4 and just see what happens? As, I assume running all 4 dimms to get 4 ranks like you said would yield the best results
 

thesmokingman

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Thanks for the reply and help Smoke-Really appreciate it. Checking on Asus QVL. Alot of the 3600 Trident's have the same timings as mine and are Hynix Ic. The 3600 Samsung I looked up are back ordered and only rated for 2 slots for DOCP. I know what your talking about the 4 ranks with single/dual. I did watch the GN youtube vid that left me confused but honestly if I can run stable with these Corsair 2 dimms at 3600 even with the higher timings, and can still get an all core overclock of 4.6-4.7 on my 5950X, would it be that much more beneficial going with the better ram? I know, first world problem.... Thanks again!

Wonder if I should just stick the other 2 dimms back in, set Voltage to 1.4 and just see what happens? As, I assume running all 4 dimms to get 4 ranks like you said would yield the best results
The 3600mhz Tridents... can be different IC depending on the advertised speed. B-die IC are usually matched until you get to very high mhz speeds (4000mhz+) but at 3600mhz for ex. they'll be 16-16-16-16. The mismatched ones will by any other type, hynix, micron, nanya etc. Thus at a quick glance you can tell by the primary timings whether they be B-die or other. Another thing regarding B-dies is the binning which is for all intents and purposes the difference between B-die. In other words B-die is B-die and the only difference is how well they are binned. Thus the higher speed B-dies will have better binning then the lower speed.

Now as to whether it's worth it... that's a personal question. The one weakness of the Zen platform has been the core to core latency and how we kind of combat that was with low latency ram and ram overclocking, tightening latencies etc etc. However on Zen 3, AMD has lower the latency an incredible amount so with basic 3200mhz/cas16 ram which will net around 62ns latency, that is already 10ns faster than Zen 2 (which averaged 72ns). And with all the low latency ram and tweaking we can lower that 62ns to an attainable 52ns. You ram is not low latency so you may be somewhere around 65ns-70ns by my guesstimate so you're already better off than with a Zen 2 cpu. I dunno if it's worth it per dollar if we really break it down so you'll have to answer that for yourself.

As to whether to test the 4 dimms, yea sure why not. There's nothing to lose.
 

Island

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Well tried all 4 sticks at 1.375 and worked for awhile but mem-test errors after a few seconds. Smoke your right, this Nanya stuff is thrash. I would like to stay with Corsair due to my ICUE eco-system and checking Asus's QVL, very limited support or testing for all 4 slots. I did find one that looks like a Samsung B-die with 18-19-19-39 timings. Of course it was 215$ at Newegg and sold out everywhere but I can find it for 335$ on Flea-bay from a reputable seller. I probably will go with this as it's been QVL tested using all 4 dimms by Asus. It's gonna cost an extra 150-175$ over what I paid for my current ram but if I can load DOCP and boot as advertised then I will be happy. Here's the memory I will get. What do u think Smoke?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/32GB-Corsa...095788?hash=item4d9853932c:g:33QAAOSwB0xdLJ~p
 

thesmokingman

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The linked ram is not B-die. It's probably Hynix or Micron, etc etc. First, I would really reconsider going Corsair cuz one they suck and two Icue software also sucks. It is a known offender that causes observer effects on Zen cpus. Corsair uses cheaper IC yet charge premium prices. I can't really help you on choosing which Corsair dimms to get because they are known for swapping crap in after the reviews have gone out.

Reports of Ryzen 3000 High Idle Voltage Exaggerated, a Case of the "Observer Effect" | TechPowerUp
 
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The linked ram is not B-die. It's probably Hynix or Micron, etc etc. First, I would really reconsider going Corsair cuz one they suck and two Icue software also sucks. It is a known offender that causes observer effects on Zen cpus. Corsair uses cheaper IC yet charge premium prices. I can't really help you on choosing which Corsair dimms to get because they are known for swapping crap in after the reviews have gone out.

Reports of Ryzen 3000 High Idle Voltage Exaggerated, a Case of the "Observer Effect" | TechPowerUp
I'll just add that I too have had bad experiences with Corsair RAM. I bought some of their top of the line "Dominator" series stuff several years back and had nothing but issues/headaches with it. So, I swore off Corsair and switched to G.Skill and have never looked back. G.Skill RAM has NEVER given me any issues or problems.
 

Dan_D

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Thanks for the reply Brother. I tried using thaiphhon and dram calc. It listed my dimms as Nanya technology. Couldn't find it in the drop down list or any info online for that matter. This is my first AMD build as I've always been Intel so I am a little hesitant to tweak things as rig is running very stable at stock and I game at 4k on a 3090 so I guess tweaking memory timings is a little silly

That being said, I did set DOCP again and conservatively bumped the dram voltage to 1.36 and it did post into windows. But I could tell things were a little iffy when my Razer synanpse would not load and then after booting up memtest86, it crashed after less then a minute. Setting back to default and eveything is purring right along. I wonder if I should just get 2 16GB sticks of the 3600 or just go with cas 14, 4 sticks of 3200? Sucks because I know this RAM ain't B-die but can't even run it at it's advertized speed. System defaults to 2133 and I can up it to 3200 which runs mem test stable, but Bios sets the timings to 22..... I just want to set it and forget it, but not hitting 3600 bugs me

Up the voltage more. Corsair RAM likes that.
 

kirbyrj

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I'll just add that I too have had bad experiences with Corsair RAM. I bought some of their top of the line "Dominator" series stuff several years back and had nothing but issues/headaches with it. So, I swore off Corsair and switched to G.Skill and have never looked back. G.Skill RAM has NEVER given me any issues or problems.

The problem is they switch the ICCs but don't change the model number. At best they change the "version" of the kit. But retailers generally don't tell you what version you are buying. G.Skill at least has the decency to switch the model number when they change ICCs in my experience. It has been this way for years. I never understood why Corsair was like that. I remember trying to find old BH5 or TCCD memory and you had to look for very specific Corsair versions.
 

Island

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Well to update-Was able to find some Corsair CMW32GX4M4C3600C18 4 pack 32 GB total on Amazon. Timing are a little better then the Nanya memory that I previously bought. it's supposed to be Samsung B-die with a version 4.31 per Asus QVL list but the memory Amazon sent me was Version 3.31 which shows as Micron. Happy to post though that finally enabling DOCP and my PC boots with all 4 sticks populated! Running a mem test now so I hope these sticks are good with no errors and I'll call it a day.

It defaults at 15 if I leave it at stock but DOCP sets it to 18-19-19-39. I know I could use dram calc and probably tighten the timings but I'm not a benchmarker and just want stability and good gaming performance so I think DOCP default is the best option for me.
 
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