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Need to replace last century's video card

K

kindasmart

[H]ard|Gawd
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Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
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Check my sig for current rig. Yes is 14 gazillion times slower than modern hardware but it does it's job. Which would be playing LOTRO @ 1920x1200 w/ med/high settings. Please no.........."you are throwing good money after bad", "just get a new system", "AGP is old, you should upgrade" etc, etc, etc. I know all that, just want some info from some of the old skool [H]ocp'ers who can remember back to the ATi x1950pro days. LOL. The new card is only $100 some odd bucks so it's no big deal for me cost wise.

And thanks in advance.

The card that died: (HIS x1950pro 512mb AGP).
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16814161082

Replacing it with: (HIS 4670 1gb AGP)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161337

My google mojo just ain't up to the task as I can't seen to find any comparisons. So what can I "generally" expect speed-wise, generally speaking?

4670 > 1950
or
4670 < 1950
or
4670 = 1950

Again, thanks in advance for info.
 
a 4670 is much faster than a 1950pro but you will never see the difference with your outdated cpu. I sure as heck would not spend over a hundred bucks for a gpu to use in that antique.
 
4670 is tons more powerful than the x1950 pro

It has 320 stream processors,which is what the 3850/3870 has also.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2616/6

Check out some of the benches.

I would have feel less bad if it was pci-e.. but as an agp card, it would not even serve as a viable backup card for when you finally upgrade in the future, but I guess if you really want to stay with your system there's no changing your mind.

That barton will be a bottleneck as well, but if you were happy with the performance before, then it certainly wouldn't be any worse.

If you want to see a direct comparison to the x1900/x1950 series, perhaps try to find benchmarks with the hd 2900 series, as those perform similar to the hd 3850/3870 IIRC.
 
Especially with a single-core CPU, you will be greatly held back.

One of the main advantages of the 4670 over the x1950pro is that the 4670 supports DirectX10.1 while the x1950pro only supports DirectX9. Almost all DirectX11 games will run just fine on DirectX10.1 hardware, but that generally can't be said for DirectX9 hardware.

Of course if you are really still on XP then you will be limited to DX9 regardless.

Also the last drivers for the x1950 pro were the 10.2 drivers, 2 years old at this point. the 4670 is still able to use the latest drivers (the latest AGP hotfix drivers at least...) which means it should at least work with most games.
 
Lol. You should at least clock your CPU to 2.4, you'll see a bit of a boost with the 4670 that way. Right now, with your CPU, it'll be more of a side-grade, albeit you'll see better frames.
 
Is there a cheap used cpu to drop in there that wouldn't bottleneck it so bad?
 
If cost is no big deal with you... snipe one of those $300 i3 Core bundles from newegg and pop a $50 card in it. Seriously, you're feeding a dying horse.
 
Would $150 be within your reach? You could look at an AMD A4-3400 with Radeon 6410 graphics, a cheap FM1 motherboard, and 4gb ram for about $150. I think the graphics would be close (maybe a step down or two), and the CPU should be a huge upgrade. Either this, or a Sandy Bridge Pentium with Intel HD2000 graphics for about the same cash.

Edit: SB Pentium would be like $135 with a mobo and 4gb ram. Cheap, not high end anything, but would do the trick.
 
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Thanks for the quick responses.

cannondale06 said:
a 4670 is much faster than a 1950pro but you will never see the difference with your outdated cpu. I sure as heck would not spend over a hundred bucks for a gpu to use in that antique.
Click to expand...

Nice to know that the 4670 will be faster.

BanDeodorant said:
4670 is tons more powerful than the x1950 pro
It has 320 stream processors,which is what the 3850/3870 has also.

... but I guess if you really want to stay with your system there's no changing your mind.

That barton will be a bottleneck as well, but if you were happy with the performance before, then it certainly wouldn't be any worse.
Click to expand...

Again, nice to know. Even though it's an old POS I'd like to keep it running for ole times sake. Hobby really. Hell I still have a working, 600 MHz Pentium 3(slot-1) w/GF3 Ti-200 card.

GotNoRice said:
Of course if you are really still on XP then you will be limited to DX9 regardless.

Also the last drivers for the x1950 pro were the 10.2 drivers, 2 years old at this point. the 4670 is still able to use the latest drivers (the latest AGP hotfix drivers at least...) which means it should at least work with most games.
Click to expand...

Better, more recent drivers would be nice and yes, LMAO, I'm still running XP. Been too poor to get any better.

Arcygenical said:
Lol. You should at least clock your CPU to 2.4, you'll see a bit of a boost with the 4670 that way. Right now, with your CPU, it'll be more of a side-grade, albeit you'll see better frames.
Click to expand...

I'm currently running (166.66 x 11.5)=1917 MHz. I think the bios has a 200 MHz setting (200 x 11.5)=2300 MHz. Just on stock cooler so I'd have to watch the temps and just give it a shot. Glad that the 4670 won't be a downgrade at least. And I do occasionally drop below 5 fps in some areas and it will be interesting to see if a "newer" GPU helps.

djgizmo said:
If cost is no big deal with you... snipe one of those $300 i3 Core bundles from newegg and pop a $50 card in it. Seriously, you're feeding a dying horse.
Click to expand...

You are right of course. And I will, actually will, be buying an all new system later this year.

artimusbill said:
Would $150 be within your reach? You could look at an AMD A4-3400 with Radeon 6410 graphics, a cheap FM1 motherboard, and 4gb ram for about $150.
Click to expand...

I just want to keep this baby running till later this year. I'd also like to keep the system whole and running as it'd replace an even older my mom is using for web surfing. (900 MHz Duron w/40 gig drive)
 
Maybe this would be a stopgap solution, but what about either:

a.) Cheap mobo & processor and run on integrated graphics for awhile
i3 2100 combos have been around $120 for a cpu/mobo and provide great performance for the price

b.) Llano or something similar. Anywhere from $90-100 for past APU cpu/mobo combos to about $130 for the cheapest llano & motherboard.

Then once you get about $60 more you could get a decent mid-range graphics card and you'll have a solution that'll be about 10x better than trying to keep that old system.

[Edit:] Having a hard time finding comparable benchmarks for llano and an x1950pro. Best I've found is pcmark 7 scores
llano (@ 2.9ghz, there's one @2.6ghz for $64 on newegg): http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-a8-3850-llano,2975-9.html - 3337 in pcmark7
core i7 920 w/ x1950pro (http://3dmark.com/pcm7/26102) : 2091 in pcmark7

So it seems like the llano would be signifcantly faster and give you a faster processor as well. Seems like a good solution.
 
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As ancient as his system is you'd need to add money for new ram and a PATA adapter card (or new drives).
 
If u cant spend the cash on the system it will be a decent replacement like u said agp is old
 
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And he may need a new PSU too. It all adds up. The 4670 may be the most cost-effective upgrade if a complete system replacement is not affordable.
 
this [H]ardOCP not antiques roadshow :) Someone donate him something semi-decent - I'd send him a system but postage from NZ would be to costly.
 
Actually the PSU is the one thing he won't need to replace. Check his signature, it has 36A (432W) on the 12v rail; this is a reasonably modern design.
 
Dude you can get an AM2 era MoBo with an Athlon X2 and some RAM for under $100. Get onto a modern platform and get PCI Express. Cards like the 4850 with a nice Zalman VF950 can be had used for $50 shipped, but they're on PCIe. I got a GTX 260 55nm with 216 shaders for $50 shipped.

I know you told us not to tell you but get onto a modern platform even if its AM2. Just do it.

EDIT Shameless plug I have an AMD Sempron single core at 2.3 GHz I'm selling for only $13 shipped. You have no excuse not to get onto a modern platform. Just do it, you'll thank us for hounding you later.
 
KaptainKhaos said:
this [H]ardOCP not antiques roadshow :) Someone donate him something semi-decent - I'd send him a system but postage from NZ would be to costly.
Click to expand...

I actually LOL'd at that Kaptain! LMAO.

Andrew_Carr said:
Yeah, didn't include that. About another $15

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148352
$10 for 2gb of ddr3 ram

http://www.google.com/products/cata...a=X&ei=GIocT7zBEufA2gXetITbCw&ved=0CFcQ8wIwAg
http://www.amazon.com/PSATA-Ultra-S...5CN6/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1327270652&sr=8-3
$3-5 for a pata/sata adapter
Click to expand...

Good to know there are PATA > SATA adapters as I'm going to want to get the data off this current drive in the future.


I understand everybody, I really do. I will be getting a completely new and modern system in 2-3 months. In my OP I just wanted to know how the 4670 compared to my dead 1950pro. That's all. I'm going to keep this "antiques roadshow" (LMAO KaptainKhaos) computer and replace an old 900 MHz Duron w/40gb drive as an upgraded web surfer for mom.
 
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:) wish more ppl would recycle their old gear out, i gave away some core 2 duo machine with 8800gt's to friends who had similar setups to you - guessing the 4670 is a step up from the 1950pro and will keep your vintage PC ticking -good luck.
 
DanNeely said:
Actually the PSU is the one thing he won't need to replace. Check his signature, it has 36A (432W) on the 12v rail; this is a reasonably modern design.
Click to expand...
The problem is that the OP listed a non-existent PSU or incorrectly listed the PSU: The actual Truepower 550W is dated from 2002 and only has 24A on the +12V rail. He might actually have the Truepower 2.0 550W which does have 36A on the +12V rail. He might also have the Truepower Trio 550W and newbishly added the +12V rails together to get 36A. The Truepower Trio has 42A on the +12V rail.

However, The Truepower I and II series as well as the Smartpower series were well known for their above average death rates due to a poor choice in caps and cooling design. In more specific terms, Antec/CWT specified/used caps (Fuhjyyu caps) that did not respond well to heat. Unfortunately, Antec made the decision to have the PSU fan only ramp at really high temps in an effort to keep the PSU quiet. However, just medium to high temps were enough to screw up the caps so really high temps were murderous. Over time, this degraded the quality and performance of those PSU series. The OP has been lucky so far with that PSU but for a new system I'd highly recommend replacing the PSU if he doesn't have the Trupower Trio.
 
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Seriously go ask around among friends first, etc. Most people have AGP cards in their junk piles.

If you really want, I've got a x1950 Pro AGP brand new in box you can have for $50.
 
i have a pentium e5300 lga775
or an amd athlon 64 x2 3800 am2 for you,
now if someone can chip in a mobo and memory for you we're in business.
 
4670 or a 3850

i Have a 3850 AGP in one of my systems and i love that card..

for all intents and purposes the 3850 and 4670 are equal in performance should give you more options when shopping around.
 
I have an Asus socket 1155 mobo + 620w Corsair PSU i'd let you have for super cheap. You'd still need ram, and cpu though.
 
Danny Bui said:
The problem is that the OP listed a non-existent PSU or incorrectly listed the PSU: The actual Truepower 550W is dated from 2002 and only has 24A on the +12V rail. He might actually have the Truepower 2.0 550W which does have 36A on the +12V rail. He might also have the Truepower Trio 550W and newbishly added the +12V rails together to get 36A. The Truepower Trio has 42A on the +12V rail.

However, The Truepower I and II series as well as the Smartpower series were well known for their above average death rates due to a poor choice in caps and cooling design. In more specific terms, Antec/CWT specified/used caps (Fuhjyyu caps) that did not respond well to heat. Unfortunately, Antec made the decision to have the PSU fan only ramp at really high temps in an effort to keep the PSU quiet. However, just medium to high temps were enough to screw up the caps so really high temps were murderous. Over time, this degraded the quality and performance of those PSU series. The OP has been lucky so far with that PSU but for a new system I'd highly recommend replacing the PSU if he doesn't have the Trupower Trio.
Click to expand...

The power supply mystery unfolds...

I don't have any of those 3 you linked Danny. The pictures of those supplies do not match what I have. This picture is what I have:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817103918 Notice the two fans and the molex connector on the back.

I still have the original box and the part number listed is "True550EPS12v" According to this: http://www.antec.com/pdf/flyers/TruePower_psu.pdf there is a "True550" and a "True550 EPS12v" I have the EPS12v one.

The spec sheet listed here: http://www.antec.com/specs/true550EPS12V_spe.html only shows ONE 12v rail of 36a max and matches exactly what I have on my original Antec box. I don't see any 1.0 or 2.0 markings on the box. I see "copyright 2003 Antec" on the box. It was purchased from a local shop in late 2004 or early 2005 as I recall.

It has lasted 7-8 years of daily usage so maybe I'm lucky. It does have two cooling fans on it which is not common anymore so that probably helps a bit. An what kind of actual load is my rig pulling from the PSU? It wasn't running 540+ watts for 8 years :)

Putting a digital volt meter on the PSU yields 11.97v (99.75%) and 4.82v (96.4%). So I guess the 5v-rail is just out of the claimed +-3% rating. I don't know if it's going bad, or was always like that.


And besides..........Even if my PSU was a Corsair AX or Seasonic X-Series, if it was 7-8 years old I'd replace it anyways.
 
Forgot to add to last post...

I bought and installed the 4670.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161337

and check out the part number 1337, LEET BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111!!!eleven!!! LMAO.

I know, good money after bad, etc, etc. Anyways LOTRO is a bit faster with the 4670 vs 1950pro, mid 20's vs mid 30's fps, which is nice.

When I bump the resolution from 1440x900 to 1920x1200 (1.77x number of pixels) the fps goes from 40 down to 35. Is that a sure indication that the GPU is now CPU limited or does the pixel count affect frame rate in a non linear fashion?
 
kindasmart said:
Forgot to add to last post...

I bought and installed the 4670.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161337

and check out the part number 1337, LEET BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111!!!eleven!!! LMAO.

I know, good money after bad, etc, etc. Anyways LOTRO is a bit faster with the 4670 vs 1950pro, mid 20's vs mid 30's fps, which is nice.

When I bump the resolution from 1440x900 to 1920x1200 (1.77x number of pixels) the fps goes from 40 down to 35. Is that a sure indication that the GPU is now CPU limited or does the pixel count affect frame rate in a non linear fashion?
Click to expand...
Not always. Although it's tough to see in most benchmarks because they're GPU limited, running a higher resolution actually puts more stress on the CPU as well. It's tough to say here since your CPU is so old.

Anyway, for $100 you could have built a new computer from used parts on the forums that's much faster. I just don't understand the logic behind this purchase, "building a new system in 2-3 months" or not.
 
Mr. K6 said:
Anyway, for $100 you could have built a new computer from used parts on the forums that's much faster. I just don't understand the logic behind this purchase, "building a new system in 2-3 months" or not.
Click to expand...

Like I mentioned in other posts. 1) I wanted a working "backup computer" to donate away and 2) It's now an ole relic/hobby computer. There is some enjoyment value in keeping this ole box working.

My upgrade wasn't a business decision as I agree with everybody it's a "bad" one, it was an enjoyment decision....if that makes sense.
 
I am sure the 4650/4670 is a lot more powerful , but no way i would spend $100 on that. I would be hard pressed to spend $50 for a 4650/4670... I just got a 4850 from geeks.com for $51 shipped. Heck. i think i have an AGP XFX geforce 6800 GT laying around you could have if you cover shipping
 
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