Need to buy a research computer

[kimjo625]

I believe in your good opinions, residents of [H].
Please help me maximize on this one.
.
.
1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
>
The main purpose of this computer will be computer science research (on top of everyday tasks, of course.) I want to play with artificial neural nets and data compression algorithms, thus I will use CUDA to maximize the parallel computing power.
.
.
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
>
budget of $5k (±5%). Total price (tax/shipping included).
.
.
3) Where do you live?
>
USA, New York, Queens.
.
.
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
>
CPU / GPU / RAM / MOBO / CASE / SSD / HDD / PSU / Liquid Cooling / Monitor
.
.
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
>
NONE.
.
.
6) Will you be overclocking?
> Yes.


7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?
>
These kinds suffice:
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/...&cs=19&c=us&l=en&dgc=SS&cid=39715&lid=1003767
.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001440
.
.
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
>
Buying within 1~2 months.
.
.
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI
support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video?
>
As mentioned on top, I need to maximize both RAM and parallel processing power
(Think neural networks nature.). Duo/Tri/Quad SLI.
.
.
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
>
I am a student, I can get legit OS from my school.
OS will be 64 bit
.
.
.
.
Here is what I've picked for candidates (you may freely override as you see fit):

MOBO : Rampage III Extreme or similar (yes, I know about pin issues)
CPU : i7 2600k or i7 990X
GPU : GTX580 (hydro copper?) (x4 or x3 or x2) or GTX590 (x2 when it comes out)
RAM : 4GB (x6) (I NEED to maximize the RAM)
CASE : I'm in love with MountainMods models like => http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TGjuJ-iBf0 (but if there's others with superior functionality, I'm willing to go for it.)
PSU : Corsair AX1200 (x1 or x2)
SSD : something like http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227578
.
I have NO idea how water cooling system works/costs so please help me especially on that topic. (radiators fans blah blah)
.
.
Thanks for your time and consideration.
.
.
(It'd be wonderful if any of you are actually familiar with CUDA-maximized build/environment. Lovers of high FLOPs.)

 

[Markyip1]

Ok, so if I get this straight -- you're building a research computer, but I'm assuming it's not mission critical based on your comments and your desire to overclock. In other words, it's not for work or at least not just for work. If it is, you may want to rethink overclocking a rig like that. I'd imagine stability and support for massive amounts of RAM trumps running CPUs out of spec. With that said, regardless of your overclocking desires, you could do much better with your parts selection given your intended use-case. You want to maximize RAM and CUDA-computing power. You should select parts that allow you to do that. I'll cover the major components here:

Platform: Given your needs, this is an easy decision. You want an X58 / 1366 / Nehelem-Westmere system. Not a P67 / 1555 / Sandy-bridge system. That means no Core i7-2600K.

CPU: Given your budget and use case, a 6-core may do you well. Only Core i7 9XX chips will work. If you reconsider your overclocking desires, consider the Core i7 970 6-core (Gulftown.) If you must overclock, you'll have a much better time of it with the 990x (Gulftown Extreme Edition) given how much RAM you plan to install. OR, you might want to consider a pair of 6-core Westmere Xeons (see next point.)

MoBo: A Rampage III Extreme is a bad choice for several reasons. First, you can't run 4x SLI without a silly expansion board. Second, the R3E is much more geared towards benching overclocks than it is towards powering a workstation with massive amounts of RAM and graphic cores. A better option would be one of the ASUS X58 WS Revolution workstation boards, the Gigabyte X58A-UD9, or the EVGA 4x Classified, each of which can support four-way SLI. Perhaps the best option however, probably achievable with your budget, would be the EVGA Classified SR-2. This is a dual socket Xeon board with support for a whopping 12 sticks of RAM (at least 48GB of memory.) This board is one of the few reasons why anyone would ever want to spend money on a MountainMods monstrosity.

Cooling: Water cooling is achieved with the following parts: blocks (these are slapped on the heat-generating components and pick up the heat) radiators (where heat is dumped,) pumps (to keep water flowing,) and tubing. Most systems also have a reservoir as it makes it easy to manage a WC setup, but they are not explicitly necessary. There are many good places to learn about water-cooling. Check out the stickies in the Water Cooling forum here and at XtremeSystems. AnandTech's cooling forum also has an excellent sticky. Note that for your first watercooling setup, you may be better off going with a high-end water-cooling kit. The XSPC kits are all the rage these days -- especially the one with the triple (3x120) radiator. Of course, if you're going with the SR-2 and the dual CPU setup, you'll be on your own (unless you get something simple like two Corsair H70s.)

That should get you started... Consider whether you want to really overclock given your needs, then take a look at some motherboards and CPUs.

 

[kimjo625]

This is a dual socket Xeon board with support for a whopping 12 sticks of RAM (at least 48GB of memory.) This board is one of the few reasons why anyone would ever want to spend money on a MountainMods monstrosity.

Thanks for an extensive response.
Wow, I didn't know there was a mobo that could support more RAM.
(Personally, I think RAM will take higher priority in my play research. I'd really prefer 64~128GB+ RAM, but those'd be server mobos with no GPU slots.)

And, you're right, I really don't have to OC, it is just that power consumption won't be a problem for me, thus I thought OC with liquid cooling was a good option. (this comp will go to one of school's comp sci lab, with me actually being there or remote accessing it from home.)

SR2 dual-CPU set up sounds good to me.

With MountainMods($500) + EVGA classified SR2 (~$500) + Quad SLI ($2000)+ 48 RAM (~$550) being the base choices,
could you recommend me the rest of the list that'll fit my budget?
(5k - 3.5k = 1.5k left for two CPUs, one SSD, power, cooling [damn, it's tight, I might have to do Tri SLI for the time being])
[Case looks like -> http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/784/picture2gie.png]

Worst case, I can wait for couple of months and try to expand my budget to 7~8k.


p.s.: is there reason to buy EVGA GTX580 HYRDO COPPER? ($700) instead of regular ones ($500)?

 

[Dangman]

Here's a prelim build for now:
$460 - 2 x Intel Xeon E5506 Quad-Core CPU
$60 - 2 x Cooler Master Hyper N 520 RR-920-N520-GP 92mm Sleeve CPU Cooler
$600 - EVGA Classified SR-2 70-WS-W555-A1 LGA 1366 Intel 5520 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 HPTX Intel Motherboard
$492 - 12 x G.Skill Ripjaw Series F3-10666CL9S-4GBRL 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM
$255 - Crucial RealSSD C300 CTFDDAC0128MAG-1G1 2.5" 128GB SSD
$65 - Samsung Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
$1420 - Asus ENGTX570 DCII/2DIS/1280MD5 GeForce GTX 570 1280MB PCI-E Video Card
$600 - 2 x Antec High Current Pro HCP-1200 1200W Modular PSU
$440 - Mountain Mods Ascension (Black Wrinkle Powder Coat) Case
$80 - Modular HPTX-SR2 Motherboard tray assembly
----
Total: $4472 plus tax and shipping

 

[kimjo625]

Here's a prelim build for now:
$460 - 2 x Intel Xeon E5506 Quad-Core CPU
$60 - 2 x Cooler Master Hyper N 520 RR-920-N520-GP 92mm Sleeve CPU Cooler
$600 - EVGA Classified SR-2 70-WS-W555-A1 LGA 1366 Intel 5520 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 HPTX Intel Motherboard
$492 - 12 x G.Skill Ripjaw Series F3-10666CL9S-4GBRL 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM
$255 - Crucial RealSSD C300 CTFDDAC0128MAG-1G1 2.5" 128GB SSD
$65 - Samsung Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
$1420 - Asus ENGTX570 DCII/2DIS/1280MD5 GeForce GTX 570 1280MB PCI-E Video Card
$600 - 2 x Antec High Current Pro HCP-1200 1200W Modular PSU
$440 - Mountain Mods Ascension (Black Wrinkle Powder Coat) Case
$80 - Modular HPTX-SR2 Motherboard tray assembly
----
Total: $4472 plus tax and shipping

The four GTX570s, they fit in the mobo ?

 

[jeremyshaw]

The four GTX570's do they fit in the mobo :O?

No. You can only fit 4 dual slot cards. However, the GTX590 is launching at 730usd, it appears. A smidgen above two GTX570 cards, with what appears to be GTX580 cores (but underclocked severely). So I'd wait a couple days for proper reviews to come in on heat and performance of those cards, too.

 

[kimjo625]

No. You can only fit 4 dual slot cards. However, the GTX590 is launching at 730usd, it appears. A smidgen above two GTX570 cards, with what appears to be GTX580 cores (but underclocked severely). So I'd wait a couple days for proper reviews to come in on heat and performance of those cards, too.

Should I just go with Radeon 6990s?
(AMDs have better Memory + TLFOPS)

I can learn OpenCL, no problem.

 

[jeremyshaw]

TFLOPS are due to a different in architecture, but from my very limited hobby game dev perspective, AMD has the lead (this gen) in GPGPU with cayman, simply due to it's ability to support multiple host programs on the CPU running multiple kernals - something I am told CUDA cannot do. But I am not a real GPGPU developer, my most advanced understanding of DirectX (or any GPU compute program) is via the XNA 3.1 framework, so maybe I'm not qualified to speak on this.

If you wanted to go crazy, you can definately go with 2 HD6990 (since Windows WDDM (Win Vista and Win7) have a 5 GPU limit... no clue why), or 4 GTX590 (since later Linux kernals do not have said limit, and nVidia CUDA support on linux is much better than the near nonexistant AMD OpenCL support on linux - though this may always change rapidly). That being said, OpenCL spent almost all of last year stabilizing as a development language and framework, so I'm not sure on it's current status.

 

[Dangman]

The four GTX570s, they fit in the mobo ?

No. You can only fit 4 dual slot cards.

Umm, the GTX 570 cards that I linked to are dual slots. So the answer is yes, four GTX 470s can fit onto the motherboard.

 

[jeremyshaw]

Umm, the GTX 570 cards that I linked to are dual slots. So the answer is yes, four GTX 470s can fit onto the motherboard.

may you check you links again? You linked to ASUS' DiretCUII cooler, which is a triple slot design.

 

[kimjo625]

TFLOPS are due to a different in architecture, but from my very limited hobby game dev perspective, AMD has the lead (this gen) in GPGPU with cayman, simply due to it's ability to support multiple host programs on the CPU running multiple kernals - something I am told CUDA cannot do. But I am not a real GPGPU developer, my most advanced understanding of DirectX (or any GPU compute program) is via the XNA 3.1 framework, so maybe I'm not qualified to speak on this.

If you wanted to go crazy, you can definately go with 2 HD6990 (since Windows WDDM (Win Vista and Win7) have a 5 GPU limit... no clue why), or 4 GTX590 (since later Linux kernals do not have said limit, and nVidia CUDA support on linux is much better than the near nonexistant AMD OpenCL support on linux - though this may always change rapidly). That being said, OpenCL spent almost all of last year stabilizing as a development language and framework, so I'm not sure on it's current status.

I like that fact that OpenCL is cross-platform with diverse devices supporting (I'm a C++ fan, but given OpenCL's already superior execution, the kind of accessibility (like JAVA) is a plus.)

I think NV is pulling away from professional or for-fun researchers, focusing more on high-end gaming features rather than GPGPU capabilities. Until their strategy changes, I will feel safer with OpenCL.

But you're right, there are all that much linux support from OpenCL. (Except IBM OpenCL SDK)

 

[tonytnnt]

I like Danny Bui's build but looking at those graphics cards I think they are triple slots. Not a big deal though because there are other GTX570s that are dual slots in the same price range. I don't know enough about GPGPU computing to be able to suggest going nVidia or ATI.

Another suggestion is to consider your storage needs. The SSD is great for getting booted up and ready to go, and the Samsung F3 is a great drive, but how much disk activity are you going to be doing? Would you benefit from a raid array? The SR2 supports raid 0,1,5,10 and JBOD. Or a RAM Disk? I know you have 48 GB but you said you need even more than that.

Also, get an UPS for that system. There's nothing worse than having the power blip for a second and losing a batch job that's been running for a day or more. I'm not suggesting this as something for when the power goes out, just for the dips in the voltage.

 

[Dangman]

I like Danny Boi's build but looking at those graphics cards I think they are triple slots. Not a big deal though because there are other GTX570s that are dual slots in the same price range. I don't know enough about GPGPU computing to be able to suggest going nVidia or ATI.

Ahh damn. My eyes must be failing me. Yeah those are indeed triple slots. But you're right: it's easy to find a dual slot GTX 570.

Also, get an UPS for that system. There's nothing worse than having the power blip for a second and losing a batch job that's been running for a day or more. I'm not suggesting this as something for when the power goes out, just for the dips in the voltage.

I concur.