Need some help...

Discussion in 'Networking & Security' started by Copyright, Aug 13, 2018.

  1. Copyright

    Copyright [H]ardness Supreme

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    Because of how my home is built I am going with wifi cameras and doorbell. Right now the signal isn't the best. The Asus router is located in a bedroom upstairs and mounted up high on a wall.. I may need to move that to the other side of hte wall in the hall way or possibly get a better router? Do range extenders truly help? What's the best long range wifi router at the moment?
     
  2. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

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    I'm not sure what a 'range extender' is, but getting a second access point that you can run a cable to your ASUS router and mount closer to your IoT devices would help- assuming that you can't just run a cable to those devices, which would absolutely be preferable given the security risk that they pose and that using up WiFi spectrum for fixed devices means less available spectrum for the mobile devices that actually need WiFi.

    A common SOHO solution is to throw in a Ubiquiti access point such as the UAP-AC-LR, which has good 450Mbps coverage for 2.4GHz IoT devices, or go cheaper with a TP-Link EAP110 which is rated for 300Mbps.
     
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  3. Copyright

    Copyright [H]ardness Supreme

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    These devices can work on 5ghz ..also. Are there any good access points for that?
     
  4. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

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    Well, the UAP-AC-LR runs at 5GHz, and their UAP-AC-Pro (what I'm using) does the same at 2.4GHz while being even faster at 5GHz.

    [if your devices can work on both, then I'd recommend the Ubiquiti access points; you can set one up and play with the transmit power so that your ASUS router serves one section of your home reliably while the access point serves another]
     
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  5. Cmustang87

    Cmustang87 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Keep in mind that 5Ghz coverage is actually lower. So if total coverage is a concern, changing this to 5Ghz won't fix the issue. You need either a better AP, or an AP that is closer to the clients it is serving.
     
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  6. Copyright

    Copyright [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yup that was the plan. I am streaming 1080p from these cameras so I erally want to be on the 5ghz network side. I connect at 866mbps on my other wifi devices. Like you said the shorter range of 5ghz is he issue.. I will picup an access point nad give it a go.. maybe get two and really cover the house! Thx guys!
     
  7. Copyright

    Copyright [H]ardness Supreme

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  8. Cmustang87

    Cmustang87 [H]ardness Supreme

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    That's the non-LR version. Only in some specific use cases do people use the LR versions. The LR means long range, but is only 2x2 MIMO on the 5Ghz band. The AC Pro is 3x3.

    upload_2018-8-13_14-52-17.png

    Source: https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/unifi/UniFi_AC_APs_DS.pdf

    tl;dr - Get the AC Pro E if you already have or plan to get a PoE switch: https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-UAP-AC-PRO-Access-Included/dp/B079DSW6XX
     
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  9. Cmustang87

    Cmustang87 [H]ardness Supreme

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    If you can run any sort of ethernet in the home, I would advise to run it off a single AP rather than combining it with the existing Asus. If you can afford two APs and run the cables, get two Unifis so you can seamlessly roam. Then you can just use the existing Asus from there to just being your internet router. Just turn off the wireless features.
     
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  10. Copyright

    Copyright [H]ardness Supreme

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    I see the Pro can do indoor and outdoor.. I was thinking of running one out under my car port which would help cover me streaming in the yard while I work and the outdoor cameras. Then do one indoor. Will these work as a stand alone wifi if you buy their POE switch? I am not real familiar with networking..
     
  11. Cmustang87

    Cmustang87 [H]ardness Supreme

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    What do you mean as a "stand alone wifi"? You will still need a router.
     
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  12. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

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    Routers route, switches switch, access points convert WiFi to ethernet... and your ASUS is all three. But they're actually separate discrete functions, and the ASUS likely has separate chips for each.

    Basically, whatever plugs into your modem is the 'router'. It assigns addresses and handles passing traffic between web and home, and it does the basic firewalling.

    It also has switching capability, like most home routers of its type, but this is actually more rare the higher-end you go; typically, you only want a router routing. Switches handle traffic distribution.

    Now, you're talking about access points- these are neither switch nor router, they just provide a WiFi network from an ethernet connection. They do have configuration, no different than the WiFi configuration in your ASUS, which you can do with your phone. They're fairly straightforward.

    If you want more control, say to enable a guest portal etc., you can run their controller software. It's pretty flexible on what it can run on, and can easily be run on an appliance (Raspberry Pi, for instance).
     
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  13. Copyright

    Copyright [H]ardness Supreme

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    So this is the router I have (link below).... My thoughts are I will just grab the two pack of the Pro AP's.. put one in the center of the house and one under my car port area to help the outdoor cameras reach and to stream to my phone while I am working outside.. (Limited phone data plan) . If I decided to remove teh asus and just use the two AP's instead which router would yall recommend? I am all for the cleanest solution. I had never thought about just getting a router and throwing out a few AP's in the house. Currently mine connects at 866mbps which I believe is faster than the AP's recommended?


    My current router..

    https://www.asus.com/us/Networking/RTAC68U/
     
  14. Cmustang87

    Cmustang87 [H]ardness Supreme

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    No reason to replace the router if it works just fine. If you are connecting APs to it to handle wifi, then just turn off the wireless radios on the Asus router and just have that route the traffic to your ISP as you normally would.
     
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  15. Copyright

    Copyright [H]ardness Supreme

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    Reason I ask is my Parents can use my current wifi router.. so i was thinking of getting a GOOD router and cleaning up the area all my equipment is in. I just need to know what you guys recommend is a GOOD router (with POE).. I have around $200 to play with for the router. I will use two AP's (pro models) in the house. I have at least two devices that use cable connections. I would prefer to have extra ports incase I add another AP. My house is a two story 4000sqft to cover. Thanks again for all the replies..
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
  16. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

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    Well, you could go all Unifi then- their combined setup, that is router (they call the Unifi Security Gateway) and their switches along with their APs all hook up to their controller software, which then provides all kinds of straightforward manageability through a single WebUI.

    Essentially splitting what your ASUS router does into pieces, but maintaining the single interface and ease of control.

    Ubiquiti Unifi Security Gateway (USG)
    Ubiquiti 8-port managed PoE switch (US-8-60W)

    Beyond those two, you need Cat5e to connect the access points to the switch. The USG (router) will simply be in line between your modem and the switch. One cable will go from modem to the USG's WAN port, then another from the USG's LAN port to one of the ports on the switch.


    [the major issues I have with full Unifi setups are that the controller software is needed for combined setup, the devices don't have much individual configuration ability, and that the USG and even its 'upgrade' the USG-Pro4, are not designed to handle the 500Mbps+ internet connections that are becoming more common; on balance, the 'single pane of glass' that a Unifi USG+switch+AP setup presents is just about as easy to set up as you're going to get for enterprise-grade gear]
     
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  17. Copyright

    Copyright [H]ardness Supreme

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    Do they make a router/switch combo to keep it all in one setup? I want to have a setup that will last me a while.. I will have probably 5-6 cameras on this network, my desktop, two media boxes, two laptops and 3 phones, oh and my smart appliances ... I don't mind spending a little extra to get what would be better..

    Something like this work .... and use the two AC PRo AP's.. or possible a single HD inside and one pro outside? looks like the HD can do 1733mpbs for supporting devices of course.

    https://www.ubnt.com/edgemax/edgerouter-pro/
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
  18. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

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    Yes!

    But here's the caveat: the Edgerouter is not a Unifi product, so no 'single pane of glass' :). They do work very well though, I have the Edgerouter 4 myself.

    [note: none of UBNT's faster Edgerouters have integrated switching except the $1500 Edgerouter Infinity, which is set up for 10Gbit]

    Also, if you need a lot of switchports, just grab a larger switch. Again, routers route, switches switch- see UBNT's Unifi 16-port US-16-150W which is definitely a bit overkill.

    I'll also say that if you're willing to learn more about networking, you can grab the Edgerouter and any managed switch you like that has enough ports and roll. But I'd recommend an ER-X at that point, or the ER-4, for routing. Nothing else is really worth it for home use.
     
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  19. Copyright

    Copyright [H]ardness Supreme

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    Is there any benefit to running the edge router over the combo you provided? I do want simple.. but also as a guy in IT (with very weak networking skills) I truly need to learn what I can about networking to expand my knowledge. My biggest fear is not getting it all to work lol. I am pretty set on doing hte HD in the house for best speed/coverage and then the Pro outside... what I have to nail down at this point is the router/switch combo or do the all in one option. Ill spend up to 350 on that setup. I have a baby on the way is why all the cameras lol.. exciting times! Thank you for so much help!


    Does this cover routing and switching? only wish is that it had more ports.. an 8 port versoin of this would be nice.. although one i saw that had more ports.. and whatever I use needs to be POE to simplify things.

    https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Uni...=UTF8&qid=1534258289&sr=1-4&keywords=unifi+xg
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
  20. Copyright

    Copyright [H]ardness Supreme

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    So parts list... 16 ports is a bit much lol.. 8 on the other hand is perfect.. seems this list below keeps the single pane setup you talked about? Is this router good enough? I have enough to cover the switch and AP right now. In a month I can get the router and I can go with a better model if it makes any difference. I saw the SFP connection.. would be nice to connect SFP from router to switch...



    Router -
    https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Uni...pID=31-lhpANO6L&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

    Switch -
    https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Net...pID=31k0MjmRTNL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

    AP -
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N15FSAG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A10EKJIGOUCP2N&psc=1
     
  21. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

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    The USG-Pro4 is basically a bastard.

    It works, but for basic line-speed routing it's slower than the ER-4, for example, while being more expensive; like the base USG, it does not do switching; and it is loud. It's meant to be in a server rack in a server room.

    So, if you can set up a router, you can set up an Edgerouter. Literally just follow the quick-start guide, there's a wizard that gets the basic config set up, and you can tweak it from there.

    And I'd recommend the ER-8 (not pro!) for your purposes. Nevermind, they don't have switch chips.

    If you're going with an Edgerouter, you can also go with an Edgeswitch- which I absolutely would recommend.

    Unfortunately, UBNT isn't big on smaller switches, so you'd need a 24-port ES-24-Lite, but you could also use an Edgerouter X with it, in budget.

    Both of these will have local configuration pages, and you can run their UNMS software which is similar to Unifi in terms of monitoring but a bit more limited in terms of configuration.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
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  22. Copyright

    Copyright [H]ardness Supreme

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    Looks like only a 40$ difference between the pro and non pro.. will there ever be a need to use the pro (SFP) version in a home even if there is Fiber coming into the home? I may just do the pro since its only $38 more anyways.



    So new parts list...... You approve this combo? Seems to give all that I need while having enough space for extra Lan and AP connections. Also this is all going in a closet area that is fairly large in size and I believe has an AC vent in the closet. Noise won't be an issue and I imagine heat wont be either.



    Router/switch
    https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-Edgerouter-Router-ERPro-8/dp/B00IA5J8M8/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1534259622&sr=1-2&keywords=ubiquiti+ERPro‑8

    AP
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N15FSAG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?tag=hardfocom-20

    Outdoor Pro AP will come later.
     
  23. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

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    Also, on PoE: there's not much reason to get a PoE switch, unless it's actually cheap. 802.at is the current PoE standard and PoE injectors that provide both 802.at and the preceding 802.af are dirt cheap.

    PoE on a switch only really makes sense when you have many PoE devices as it simplifies power distribution.
     
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  24. Copyright

    Copyright [H]ardness Supreme

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    So is my parts list good? Those two devices and ill just use the small POE pieces I can buy for the two AP's. I think the HD model comes with one anyways.

    If this works I am ordering the Router and AP right now! :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
  25. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

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    Specifically addressing my strikethrough above: I'd thought that the ER-8 (Pro) routers had switch chips, but they don't appear to. Which doesn't make much sense, but that's that.

    You really do not want to be setting up switching on a router that does not have a switch chip- essentially, it means that all traffic between ports must be routed, which means that all local traffic must then be processed by the router, and that the CPU load on the router and its link to the interfaces may be stressed as a result.

    And that ER-8 (Pro) isn't going to be appreciably faster than an ER-X or ER-X-SFP at routing. Grab the ER-X-SFP if you want another port and/or want SFP, and the ER-X does have a switch chip!

    You do- but you can grab a $15 injector too. That's less than adding it to a larger switch, and less than Ubiquiti charges to throw one in the box too. I'm using one of these right now.
     
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  26. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

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    Note: it looks like the ER-X-SFP has 24V PoE- this should work for the UAP-AC-Pro, but you'll need an injector to power a UAP-AC-HD with 802.at.
     
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  27. Copyright

    Copyright [H]ardness Supreme

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    Have a link to the router?
     
  28. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

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  29. Copyright

    Copyright [H]ardness Supreme

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    Confused.. we went from a $340 setup to a 77$ device. which looks like ill need more ports. The $340 device was no better? Not worried about the money.. this is just my side money I make doing odd jobs lol. I want to get an upgrade over the Asus 68U I have when all is said and done. Makes me want to just use what I have and add a couple AP's to it if its truly no better.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
  30. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

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    Refer back to this post, I fixed the link, and replace the ER-X with the SFP version.

    Also not looking at a single device here; the ER-8 and ER-8-Pro not having switch chips makes them non-viable for your purpose, so you need an external switch, and the 24-port version is the cheapest Edgeswitch with more than eight ports.
     
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  31. Copyright

    Copyright [H]ardness Supreme

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    Ahh ok..so back to dual devices .. which is fine. I saw some 8 port ES switches that have POE but only 24V not the AT.. which I may end up running a pair of HD AP's.. one out and one indoor since I found out they work outdoor also. I am starting with one AP in the center of my home on the upstairs ceiling which is out in the open. I will move to a second AP later that will be on the far side of the house outside under car port so its safe.

    So looking at the routers I found these.... seems like each has its features. I assume I can use a DAC cable to connect Router to switch?.... sorry for the million questions.. trying to learn as I go.. so many different models. 8 ports would cover all I need if there is a GOOD 8 port option.. ideally If it has 8 or more ports its fine.. I want ultimate speed that I can afford.

    https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Edg...4267540&sr=1-3&keywords=Ubiquiti+EdgeRouter+X

    https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-ERP...4267609&sr=1-5&keywords=Ubiquiti+EdgeRouter+X

    Above has switch chip and 5 ports.. if only it had 8 ports it would be perfect..

    https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Edg...4267609&sr=1-4&keywords=Ubiquiti+EdgeRouter+X


    Then there is this one below with POE AT 8 ports is perfect.. less ports but more options.. is it as good?

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DKXT4CI/ref=psdc_281414_t1_B01G55FYU4


    Question.. my Asus says its 1900mbps... if my AP's are hooked to a single switch port on a switch.. doesn't that limit them to 1000mbps? Or am I looking at this all wrong? I saw there are two lan ports on the AP's.. does it requires two network connectison for full speed?


    I was reading about switch chips and was curious if I truly need it? I don't truly understand thier function but read this..

    Each environment is different and unique, this changes the type of router that is best for the job. Some EdgeRouters include a switch-chip, which makes them ideal when multiple router ports need to be present in the same subnet. Other routers are better at raw performance and are more suitable for an environment where switches are also present. Other factors are whether the device will be mounted outside or whether it needs to provide PoE (Power over Ethernet).
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
  32. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

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    This is the same product as

    just as a more expensive listing :).


    This guy adds 48V (assume 802.at?), but is slower and more expensive (somehow) than the ER-X, not recommended.
     
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  33. Copyright

    Copyright [H]ardness Supreme

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    LOL yeah I caught the more expensive listing after...

    How does this one perform compared to the 24 port? Says it adds POE AT ( I think).. 8 ports is plenty for hard wired devices in my home.

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DKXT4CI/ref=psdc_281414_t1_B01G55FYU4?tag=hardfocom-20


    Soo new parts list unless you think the above switch is a better idea...


    Router...

    https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Edg...4267609&sr=1-4&keywords=Ubiquiti+EdgeRouter+X

    Switch..

    https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Net...id=1534270234&sr=1-1&keywords=edgeswitch+lite


    Way it sits if I use all HD AP's each comes with its POE connection.. Also how can we get 1733mbps if its hooked to a single 1gb port? My current router is 1900mpbs but Fastest connection is my office at 877mbps with an Netgear AC1900 USB connection.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
  34. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

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    Fine, just it costs as much as the 24-port switch, you don't need PoE, it doesn't come with a console port, and it's Unifi instead of Edgemax. If you're not going to get a USG (and I don't recommend them if an Edgemax or other routing product can be used and/or tight integration isn't needed), then I'd personally stick to Edgemax stuff that can be individually configured.

    [I don't recommend going with Unifi anything outside of the APs unless you're also running a USG and willing to spin up the controller software]

    Short answer is: you're never going to get 1733Mbps ;)

    Long answer: that's okay! What '1733Mbps' really means is that you can have a lot of high-bandwidth devices connected to the access point, because it has the extra radios and antennas to better make use of the spectrum. So better coverage and better speed is what the marketing statement translates to.


    Last note, on SFP stuff: just don't. It's fine if a fiber provider will hook the fibers directly to an ER-X-SFP (for which you'll need an optical transceiver), but otherwise, I don't advice attempting to use them. DACs can work but they're finicky depending on what's on each end and have distance limitations.
     
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  35. Copyright

    Copyright [H]ardness Supreme

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    Ok this answers A LOT of my questions.. looks like the X Router and 24 port switch is the final solution! Also comes out a little cheaper and gives me more ports. I'm starting to wonder if teh SFP port on the X router is input only and not output which means no way to connect o the switch anyways. I am going to go ahead and order those. I hope these AP's are stronger than my current wifi router.. then again I will bed able to place them in much better locations.
     
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  36. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

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    They'll be stronger, yes- but location helps a whole ficken' lot!

    [you can run SFP DAC and optical cables back and forth, but they are exactly the same as ethernet for home uses- except if you need to push data over a distance, like fiber-to-the-home]
     
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  37. Copyright

    Copyright [H]ardness Supreme

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  38. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

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    Benefit?

    Basically, it runs the Unifi software. It's an appliance, and it provides the same service as running Unifi on Windows or in a VM (on Ubuntu).

    But you only need Unifi for the APs, so the benefit is very small; the Cloud Key is great for configuring campus-wide networks. Also, they have a second version on the way, as the first one is reportedly not that reliable, and not very fast.

    You can quickly set up a UAP by using the QR code on the back with their phone app.
     
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  39. Copyright

    Copyright [H]ardness Supreme

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    Sounds like it won't do a lot for me.. or maybe I will wait for the 2nd version if I decide to use one. Everything is ordered.. the HD AP, X Router and 24 port switch.

    I plan on adding another outside to suport about 5 Nest 1080P IQ cameras.. Do you think there is any benefit to using the HD for these cameras vs the PRO? The AP will be fairly close to the cameras... If it effects picture quality at all I will do the HD but if it's truly not needed ill jsut do the Pro.
     
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  40. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

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    I'd use the Pro if you need anything at all at that point, or even the LR.

    One other thing to add: grab one of these or one like it to do the console stuff. May not ever even open the package, however, once you get playing it'll save you- it's saved me ;)