NCASE M1 vs. Phanteks Shift

I had time this evening to bleed the system. I never had done that without a reservoir in the loop. I connected one for the process via QDC. I might not have gotten all air out of the loop, but close enough to run a benchmark.
So I fired up Unigine again with all fans at 100%. Temps seemed to stabilize at around 65°C for CPU's hottest core and 60°C for GPU. Then I tried to lower the fan speeds to 65%. Temps were rising quickly by 5°C. I then set the fans back to 100%, but couldn't get the temps back. They got even worse over time, it seemed. System is now of for 20 minutes and fittings are still almost untouchable hot.

At this point, all I could do is experiment with different fan orientations. But I just think that it's not worth it. It would have to make a >10°C difference and I can't imagine the impact being this large.
I can't give back the GPU, because I own it 3 weeks now. So switching to an air cooled GPU is not really an option. I could try the blower cooler but am skeptical about the noise. Since the only alternative I see is switching back to the NCASE M1, I might try it first.
 
Bummer. The Shift is really too tight for custom loop.

If you don’t mind copping out like I did -
my GPU runs super cool with the NXZT G10 + Corsair H75. The Thermalright AXP-200 was the biggest (widest) heatsink I can fit in this case, while fitting a decent slim fan. I had to change the 140 slim to pull air through the heatsink for slightly better temperatures. I’m eventually going to switch my cpu cooler to a H75 AIO from the Thermalright AXP-200 for slightly better cooling.
 
I had a Corsair AIO once. I remember that I was clearly hearing the pump noise on idle. Since this has been some years ago, maybe they made some improvements on this. Maybe I read some current review about AIOs. From an visual point of view the NXZT does not look very sleek, at least what I can tell from Google pictures. Do you have some pictures of your rig? On the other hand, I have to handle some more Watts than you with my GPU.

In the meantime I was going full air cooling. I saw someone writing, that one should set all fans to intake in the Shift, because as exhaust, air is blocked by the case panels. Did that. Installed the blower cooler on my 1080 Ti. This setup was really noisy at load. I can't live with that. CPU did get really acceptable temps, though.
 
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I agree that I don’t like the look of the G10. The G12 looks cleaner. On my setup I have the graphic card facing inside, so the G10 isn’t visible. Just the back of the 1080. I miss the nice backplate though.

My 1080 stays cool (max 50) with the H75 with push and pull. Happy with the performance. Once I have some time, I might try custom loop with a single 120mm radiator. Really for looks, and sturbornness.

Which cpu cooler are you using?
 
Hmm. GPU facing backwards. Not that bad already and might look even better with a backplate. Are there RGB backplates?
I have to sleep over the situation before deciding if I do further experiments with the Shift or move everything into the M1 again.

I am using the Phanteks TC12LS CPU cooler. But I put a slim fan on it pushing towards the motherboard.
 
OK, I gave up. I am running my components in the M1. Magicool 240mm bottom radiator with slim silverstone fans in pull exhaust config. Alphacool 240mm radiator with NB eLoop fans in push intake config. Running Unigine for a couple of minutes results in very low GPU temps, not hitting 50°C yet, although I believe this will still rise in a 2 hour gaming session. But the GPU core is overclocked by 130MHz and has a power target of 120%. Couldn't be happier about that. But the CPU is going over 80°C, while not even utilized very much. When crossing the 80°C mark, my fans ramp up from 65% to 100%, which is really annoying. I don't know if I did something wrong during the build. I had high CPU temps in the M1 before, but can't remember them being critical. Maybe I'll try set the eLoops as exhaust to not blow hot air against the CPU.
 
Sounds like the cpu block may need to be reseated? Or if the in/out for the cpu block got swapped?
 
Yeah GPU temps sound very good, I was getting max of 42C with my GTX 1070 and a single 240mm radiator. CPU was max of 52C, OCed 6600k 1.25v.
 
With the GPU temps that low, and the CPU that high, definitely sounds like either a seating issue, or a thermal paste issue... might have an air bubble in the paste. Getting good temps for both components in the M1 is difficult, but it's odd to see great and poor, usually they 'equalize' a bit and you end up with good and OK. My GPU temps are always lower than my CPU at load, but not by that much.
 
Switched to dual AIO, pictures below:
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Temps much higher for GPU overall. I tried to set both AIO fans to intake vs exhaust vs mix, as well as the upper front 140 to exhaust vs intake. The best combination in terms of temperatures is to have intakes for both AIOs, and the upper 140 as exhuast.
 
The best combination in terms of temperatures is to have intakes for both AIOs, and the upper 140 as exhuast.
Or in other words: Stick to the f*cking manual :bookworm:

Thanks for the update. How much are your temps described in numbers?
 
I know, I know... apparently I didn’t trust Phanteks’ air-flow design (justifiably so), and wanted to tinker/test for myself. They were right, dammit.

Gaming temperatures only, two hour session:
  • Air-cooled CPU / AIO GPU = 75c / 50c
  • AIO CPU / AIO GPU = 65c / 65c
  • Not tested, but educated guess for AIO CPU / air-cooled GPU = 60c / 85c
Having two radiators on the bottom half of the case does make things much warmer for both CPU and GPU. If there’s only one radiator on the bottom, having push-pull 120s, along with a bottom front 140 intake, the component cooled by the radiator stays really cool.
 
Air-cooled CPU / AIO GPU = 75c / 50c
Thanks for investigating. I will keep this in mind. Maybe someday I will take the Shift out of the basement and give it another try. Although I am once again impressed of the NCASE M1, I still like the design of the Shift very much.

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I removed the CPU block and looking at the thermal paste, there might be even more than one problem. Number one: Too less paste in general, maybe. Number to: I think the block was sitting on the capacitors on the left side and didn't make plane contact with the block. I reassambled it and now the CPU stays between 60-70°C. Thanks to all of your advices. I left all of you a like.

After reassambling, my bottom fans are ramping up to 100% for no good reason. I am controlling them via Speedfan. The curve should tell them to only go to 100% if the GPU is reaching 70°C. At the moment it is at 54°C. I'll have to figure this out.
 
Glad you found the cpu waterblock contact problem.

For the limited airflow it seems this chassis has, those temps look okay for gaming usage...?
Yes, I think the temperatures are ok. It does spike up here and there but averages around 65c. I figured as long as both components are quite a ways away from thermal throttling, we’re ok. Keep in mind that I did run fans at an aggressive ~1800 rpm for the 120mm fans, and about ~1400 rpm for the 140mm exhuast.
 
Can either of you attempting a custom loop take temps with the alu side panel off on the fan side? Curious how much that air flow restriction is affecting things.
 
Can either of you attempting a custom loop take temps with the alu side panel off on the fan side? Curious how much that air flow restriction is affecting things.
If you read the thread, you’ll find that OP has switched back to M1, and I’m using dual AIO. I can run a quick benchmark with and without the front cover to see the temperature difference. Sit tight.
 
If you read the thread, you’ll find that OP has switched back to M1, and I’m using dual AIO. I can run a quick benchmark with and without the front cover to see the temperature difference. Sit tight.

Cheers, I have been following the thread the last few days and have read it all, just hoping someone has such measurements. I may take a stab at it and have the alu panels CNC'd to allow airflow if the temp difference is dramatic enough, say 10C? Otherwise I'll have to look at the Shift X I suppose.
 
Cheers, I have been following the thread the last few days and have read it all, just hoping someone has such measurements. I may take a stab at it and have the alu panels CNC'd to allow airflow if the temp difference is dramatic enough, say 10C? Otherwise I'll have to look at the Shift X I suppose.
Gotcha. It’s probably about 5-10c. I’m going to fire up Destiny 2 here in a bit, and will report back in a bit.

edit: yes, about 5-9c for CPU (AIO radiator mounted on bottom front), and same for GPU (bottom mount)
 
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Gotcha. It’s probably about 5-10c. I’m going to fire up Destiny 2 here in a bit, and will report back in a bit.

edit: yes, about 5-9c for CPU (AIO radiator mounted on bottom front), and same for GPU (bottom mount)

Ok, a little lower than I expected, but it seems to match the issues people have with the other popular Enthoo Evolve cases and airflow issues. Unfortunately some of the simpler mods to those cases don't seem like options here short of removing the dust filters on the sidepanel which it seems has been tried. I'll have to start working on a CAD file for the side panel to do what Phanteks should've done in the first place (or just made the alu panels stick out a bit further for larger gaps).
 
Ok, a little lower than I expected, but it seems to match the issues people have with the other popular Enthoo Evolve cases and airflow issues. Unfortunately some of the simpler mods to those cases don't seem like options here short of removing the dust filters on the sidepanel which it seems has been tried. I'll have to start working on a CAD file for the side panel to do what Phanteks should've done in the first place (or just made the alu panels stick out a bit further for larger gaps).
One correction: I removed half the air filters from the front panel, and all the filters from the rear and bottom panels.

I’ve tried mocking up offsetting either the aluminum or TG panels, and I think it compromises the aesthetics (obviously it’s a subjective thing)

However for discussion purposes, one idea to achieve panel offset would be to shim the metal anchors that are on the TG or the alum panels. This would be the least destructive / most reversible route to first try.
 
One correction: I removed half the air filters from the front panel, and all the filters from the rear and bottom panels.

I’ve tried mocking up offsetting either the aluminum or TG panel, and I think it compromises the aesthetics (obviously it’s a subjective thing)

However for discussion purposes, one idea to achieve panel offset would be to shim the metal anchors that are on the TG or the alum panels. This would be the least destructive / most reversible route to first try.

Good idea, honestly depending on case orientation it may not even be noticeable if done on the rear glass panel. Other ideas I have in mind of varying cost and extremes:
  1. Create a Plexi/Acrylic ventilated rear panel replacement for the tempered glass.
  2. Similar idea I came across on Instagram, but mount an external rad to a replacement plexipanel.
  3. Have fan ventilation holes cut in the front alu panel for the exhaust and intake fans, seems to be a popular solution for the Evolve ATX top and front panels, though done in varying degrees of aesthetics.
  4. Remove the upper SSD mounts on the rear panel and cut out a hole for an intake fan for cross-airflow (saw this earlier in the thread), potentially with vent holes cut into the alu panel for increased airflow (wouldn't impact the case's visuals as much since it's in the rear)
  5. Allow for a floor 140 rad by utilizing this minor cutting mod someone did to fit the Kraken X42, it looks like a 120 fan would still fit above this, but not with a rad. Could utilize this to use a fit a thick 140mm floor rad potentially if only cooling one component?
 
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Id actually like to see the motherboard moved down several inches, so it's more centered in the case. Then you could install a rad at either end. I think that's where this design falls short. I want to say there's another slim tower that allows this... maybe the Silverstone? I'd think cooling results would fair much better if this could be done.
 
Good idea, honestly depending on case orientation it may not even be noticeable if done on the rear glass panel. Other ideas I have in mind of varying cost and extremes:
  1. Create a Plexi/Acrylic ventilated rear panel replacement for the tempered glass.
  2. Similar idea I came across on Instagram, but mount an external rad to a replacement plexipanel.
  3. Have fan ventilation holes cut in the front alu panel for the exhaust and intake fans, seems to be a popular solution for the Evolve ATX top and front panels, though done in varying degrees of aesthetics.
  4. Remove the upper SSD mounts on the rear panel and cut out a hole for an intake fan for cross-airflow (saw this earlier in the thread), potentially with vent holes cut into the alu panel for increased airflow (wouldn't impact the case's visuals as much since it's in the rear)
  5. Allow for a floor 140 rad by utilizing this minor cutting mod someone did to fit the Kraken X42, it looks like a 120 fan would still fit above this, but not with a rad. Could utilize this to use a fit a thick 140mm floor rad potentially if only cooling one component?
These are all great / valid ideas. I especially like #5, as this may open up the possibility of having 120 + 140 rad for a custom loop.
Another observation I have with the Shift, in regards to 2x AIO vs 2x 120 custom loop, is that that the case interior seem to run much cooler with 2x AIOs. I believe that small space in the lower half of space is really needed as breathing room for cooling. For 2xAIO, the lower space is only occupied by a SFX PSU, 2x 120mm rad, and 1x 120mm fan. While for a custom loop, that space has a SFX PSU, 2x 120mm rad (one 27mm thick, other 27-30mm thick), and 1x 120mm fan (15-25mm thick), a pump (DDC or smaller. D5 will fit -but will take up almost twice the volume), a reservoir (if possible). I believe eating into that volume of "dead space" does drastically impact cooling performance.
 
Id actually like to see the motherboard moved down several inches, so it's more centered in the case. Then you could install a rad at either end. I think that's where this design falls short. I want to say there's another slim tower that allows this... maybe the Silverstone? I'd think cooling results would fair much better if this could be done.

The motherboard & GPU I/O is at the top of the case, so this really wouldn't work...
 
If the MB and GPU are shifted down, the I/O would either have to face the rear, or lots of extensions.
 
Id actually like to see the motherboard moved down several inches, so it's more centered in the case. Then you could install a rad at either end. I think that's where this design falls short. I want to say there's another slim tower that allows this... maybe the Silverstone? I'd think cooling results would fair much better if this could be done.

I understand, just wishful thinking. Just seems like a missed opportunity by Phanteks.
Where would the PSU go though? Can't really be a missed opportunity if it was never possible to begin with.
 
I can‘t follow you. If you remove the feet and mount them on the top and then flip the case as a whole, where do you need extra clearance?
 
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I can‘t follow you. If you remove the feet and mount them on the top and then flip the case as a whole, where do you need extra clearance?

I cannot follow you, what benefit would this provide; no extra room for fans or radiators is created, if anything it just makes for a top-heavy tip-prone chassis...?!?

I say use the chassis as intended by the manufacturer, dual AIOs set as intakes & the 140mm chassis fan set as exhaust...
 
The discussion was about moving internals of the case several inches down to install a fan, radiator at the top of the case. I then had the idea to flip the whole case upside down, because then you have your top spot for fan or radiator. Exhausting hot air through the top does not sound like a bad idea to me. The Corsair One also works like this.
Nevertheless I am on your side with using the case as intended by the manufacturer. Above idea was manly born out of curiosity.
 
Having the whole case upside down would definitely be better for out-of-case cable management. Running cables down the back inner wall is clumsy and shortens many of my cables. For the old school Cintiq I have opposite side of my desk, the chunky cable cluster (dvi/usb/power block) won’t fit under the rear cover, and have to be route out the upper rear opening.
Remember that you’d have to tilt the whole case to plug/unplug anything. Phanteks (and previously Silverstone FT series) actually thought through the architecture, and have the best use-case.
 
Waiting for ASRock to come out with a H370 motherboard, maybe a 8700 / 1070 Ti build...?
 
You’ve been waiting a long time, Boil ?

I have been waiting awhile to upgrade my PC, not specifically for H370, but it seems like there is always something new just on the horizon in PC-land to wait for...

I started 'waiting' when Z97 motherboards were prevalent; then Z170 came along, then Z270, then X370, now Z370...

Most of the waiting was/is over these damned boutique SFF cases, and agonizing over Intel/Nvidia, or all AMD builds...

The funny thing is, my two chassis choices at this time would be either the NCASE M1 or the Phanteks Evolv Shift...!

But, for me, if I were to build in a M1 chassis, I would feel the need for a full custom water cooling loop & custom cables, which drives the build cost up about 700 bucks...

The Shift allows full AIO water cooling at a much lower price point...

Argghhhhh...!!!
 
I have been waiting awhile to upgrade my PC, not specifically for H370, but it seems like there is always something new just on the horizon in PC-land to wait for...

I started 'waiting' when Z97 motherboards were prevalent; then Z170 came along, then Z270, then X370, now Z370...

Most of the waiting was/is over these damned boutique SFF cases, and agonizing over Intel/Nvidia, or all AMD builds...

The funny thing is, my two chassis choices at this time would be either the NCASE M1 or the Phanteks Evolv Shift...!

But, for me, if I were to build in a M1 chassis, I would feel the need for a full custom water cooling loop & custom cables, which drives the build cost up about 700 bucks...

The Shift allows full AIO water cooling at a much lower price point...

Argghhhhh...!!!
You can definitely do dual 120 AIO in the M1 as well to keep costs down. The AIO cooling performance for both cases are similar.

If you’re thinking to mod the M1 to have a window, mod the case bottom to properly vent a bottom rad, custom res/pump mount, etc. Its a whole different type of consideration. It becomes much more subjective.
 
You can definitely do dual 120 AIO in the M1 as well to keep costs down. The AIO cooling performance for both cases are similar.

If you’re thinking to mod the M1 to have a window, mod the case bottom to properly vent a bottom rad, custom res/pump mount, etc. Its a whole different type of consideration. It becomes much more subjective.

With dual AIOs in the M1, it seems like the hoses are an issue, blocking up the airflow...

In the Shift, the extra height helps alleviate the issue with hose lengths...?
 
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