How come the i7 running at 4,0Ghz would beat an i5 at 4,3Ghz in 4 core processes?
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NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)
- Thread starter wahaha360
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How come the i7 running at 4,0Ghz would beat an i5 at 4,3Ghz in 4 core processes?
Well, I did mean less than or equal to. The i5 would win that if it's strictly a 4 core limit. In fact, even a 4 GHz i5 would beat a 4 GHz i7 in that case.
Anyway, the i7 is only a 3.7 Ghz with a 4 core load. 4 GHz is only for single threaded workloads.
kingsleylow
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You'd be surpised...
My SFX500L handles benching my 5960X @ 4.5 and my Titan-X @ 1500 concurrently (eg Firestrike combined test). I can bench each higher individually, but I'm still on air so the cooling becomes a problem for my CPU for anything higher than that.
You should have no trouble with overclocking both for everyday use as you will never have both under full load at the same time.
I'd recommend the 500L and just swap it out when the 700L Platinum is realeased, if you need the extra headroom
thank you for your feedback.... hope i can fit in my water cooling with ATX PSU so that i can wait for 700L to be safe.... if cant then i will get the 600W
Ok, thanks!
I am planning on using the same CPU cooler as you. How come you replaced the stock fans from Noctua for the Gentle Typhoon AP-13?
Actually, my signature is lying a bit. The two GTs are mounted on the side bracket and I have an Arctic F12 PWM on the bottom of the heatsink.
I elected not to use the included fans for aesthetic reasons. The Noctua fans are IMO ugly. Also, you cannot fit both Noctua fans in there with an SFX PSU.
If I remember correctly, someone managed to fit both a Noctua 140 mm and a regular 120 mm on the side bracket and I can't really see any downside to that if you like the Noctua fan anyway.
The optimal setup is three fans, two on the side bracket, one on the bottom of the heatsink. Which fans you use really comes down to your cooling and noise requirements.
EDIT: Additionally, consider that the GTs have a slightly lower rotational speed, are significantly smaller and have a large centre hub.
GTs don't push a ton of air for their RPM, they push a decent amount of air for the noise they make.
It's an important distinction and I think even though they are roughly the same RPM, the Noctua fans would not only be louder at full speed, but also harder to undervolt enough to make them silent.
That said, I haven't tried.
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Your GTs run at 1,150rpm max. right? I was planning on undervolting the Noctua to run at 900rpm... not a good idea when overclocking to 4,3Ghz?
Edit: 1 NF-P14 would be in the side panel and one used in the case floor. I'd get two further 120mm fans (one case floor / one in the side mounting bracket). It woulnd't be the most aesthetic layout, agreed. I was planning on skipping the fan on the underside of the heat sink unless the temps were really too high. I could also experiment with only one 140mm fan in the case floor and use the 120mm fan for the heat sink.
They top out at ~1230 according to the mobo, but that's normal. The Noctuas would hit closer to 1300.
I use software to undervolt them to 330 RPM at idle. Works just fine. At full load, the CPU gets HOT even at 1000 RPM, but since yours is an i5, it shouldn't be an issue. Don't know how hot Skylake runs though.
My CPU is also a terrible, awful, horrible overclocker so I'm using very high voltage for 4.2 GHz.
Depending on your GPU, it might be just as good to simply skip the bottom fans. I haven't tested without the bottom CPU heatsink fan though, might not be necessary.
Ok - thanks for the heads up. I will test various settings / configurations and proceed with caution.
My issue is the whole OS X compatibility. Anything I set up in Windows will most likely not work in OS X (fan speed control). So it either must be set in the BIOS or be set mechanically (under-volt adapters). Since it is my first Hackintosh I will be experimenting and most likely getting very frustrated along the way
but that's half of the fun I guess.Ok - thanks for the heads up. I will test various settings / configurations and proceed with caution.
My issue is the whole OS X compatibility. Anything I set up in Windows will most likely not work in OS X (fan speed control). So it either must be set in the BIOS or be set mechanically (under-volt adapters). Since it is my first Hackintosh I will be experimenting and most likely getting very frustrated along the way
Oh right, I forgot. The reason my CPU gets so hot, is that my CPU fans exhaust the air. If you use yours as intakes, you can easily run 900 RPM even under full load while overclocked.
Any particular reason you are not intaking ?
GPU temps are better this way with the Twin Frozr cooler. The solution would either be a card that doesn't need a lot of cooling, using higher fan speeds (ugh) or getting an aftermarket cooler and doing side intake, bottom exhaust which has gained some popularity in this thread.
friend'scatdied
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You'd be surpised...
My SFX500L handles benching my 5960X @ 4.5 and my Titan-X @ 1500 concurrently (eg Firestrike combined test). I can bench each higher individually, but I'm still on air so the cooling becomes a problem for my CPU for anything higher than that.
You should have no trouble with overclocking both for everyday use as you will never have both under full load at the same time.
I'd recommend the 500L and just swap it out when the 700L Platinum is realeased, if you need the extra headroom
Yeah, I noticed my entire setup (5820K @ 1.25v + 980 Ti @ 1485MHz, including ~50W U2715H and 80WPC stereo system) consumes just ~300-350W at the wall while playing Fallout 4.
I'm pretty sure part of it is because I have a frame limiter on for 60FPS, but I'll also evaluate in GTA V with no such limiter in place. Gonna take the 5960X to the limit and see how it goes.
ForrestCrump
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I have the same card as you do XelNika, do you happen to know of any after market coolers that fit our gfx card and still fit in the ncase m1?
exzacklyright
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I'm still clueless what cooler to get. What sort of orientation do I want my motherboard for the best build experience? Do I need the RAM slots on one side? The MOBO Power connector?
basically... what should I look for when choosing a motherboard/Cooler?
basically... what should I look for when choosing a motherboard/Cooler?
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Well, I can't say for sure, but it doesn't look like any of the components on the PCB are particularly tall and it doesn't use stacked power connectors so it shouldn't interfere with most coolers.
However, the GPU is placed further forward than on reference, I'd estimate by about an inch. Of course, this means better clearance near the outputs, but more issues with long coolers.
There is less than 177 mm from the front GPU heatsink screws to the front of the case so the Accelero Xtreme III/IV doesn't fit unlike with reference cards.
The Alpenföhn Peter 2 fits, although it requires slim fans. The Prolimatech MK-26 fits on the card, but I think it's too wide for the case and it would require slim fans like the Peter 2.
Honestly though, the Twin Frozr is much too nice to be replaced. I'd just trade the card for a different model, something with a reference PCB.
The motherboard can only fit one way... The I/O panel has to face the rear. Practically all mainstream ITX motherboards (LGA 1150/1151) have the RAM and 24-pin on the right edge of the board. LGA 2011 boards use a different layout.
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exzacklyright
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Alright so I eliminated the motherboard factor.. how about the cooling? What are the quietest AIO coolers that fits the ncase?
I want to avoid this....
http://i.imgur.com/IC8ia0g.jpg
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ForrestCrump
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Thanks for all of the great info. I have all of my parts on order and had initially planned on two bottom case fans exhausting, my MSI 970 with the Accelero Extreme 3 with vrm heatsinks on top of it. After seeing some videos, it didn't look like that would be a reality and it's nice to have confirmation from you that it will indeed not fit in the M1.
If the Twin Frozr is nice enough to use alone, do you suggest taking the fans off of it and just using the heatsink paired with fans in the case bottom? I'm just wondering about performance between the case fans and the fans already on the gfx card.
Anyhow, thanks for the input.
Flicker Freeman
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Would a Sapphire Radeon R9 390 Nitro fit into the M1? It's 12.1" long, so it should, right?
No Hands 55
Limp Gawd
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im using the corsair h105 and its silent, and extremely cool
Current specs:
Asus P8Z77-I Deluxe
i5-3570K
Samsung 840 250gb
2TB WD Black
Asus GTX660
ST45SF-G v2 (450w)
Am upgrading the 660 to a Sapphire Nitro Radeon R9 390 which in the specs I've found shows it should be 275 watts TDP.
Should I be fine or will I need to upgrade my PSU as well?
Thanks.
Asus P8Z77-I Deluxe
i5-3570K
Samsung 840 250gb
2TB WD Black
Asus GTX660
ST45SF-G v2 (450w)
Am upgrading the 660 to a Sapphire Nitro Radeon R9 390 which in the specs I've found shows it should be 275 watts TDP.
Should I be fine or will I need to upgrade my PSU as well?
Thanks.
Nobu
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Err, 375W? Or did you mean the 380, which has a TDP of 225W? At least, that's what is listed on the Sapphire website.
If you did in fact mean the 390, you'll probably want to upgrade your PSU, unless Sapphire's listed TDP is way higher than what it actually is. If you meant the 380, you'll probably be fine.
The TDP is obviously not 375 W, you should've been tipped off by that. The reference 390 TDP is 275 W and the Nitro only has a 10 MHz overclock.
I didn't find any reviews that actually measured the card's power consumption, but those that measured at the wall saw ~400 W which of course means that the PSU is supplying significantly less than 400 W.
The reason Sapphire lists 375 W is that it's what the 2x 8-pin and PCIe bus are rated to supply.
In general, you should just assume that all single GPU cards are sub-300 W. 300 W is the magic limit where you can get 75 W from the PCIe bus, 75 W from a 6-pin and 150 W from an 8-pin.
It is the optimal configuration for compatibility in high-end cards. 2x 8-pin excludes old/small PSUs and is not officially supported by the PCIe specification.
The exceptions are dual-GPU cards and custom designs made for extreme overclocking. Although the Nitro has 2x 8-pin, that doesn't affect the actual power draw.
And to Iam918, it will be just fine.
Nobu
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I can't seem to find the "reference 390 TDP" anywhere--I had searched before my previous post, with no success. Is it officially documented somewhere, a number somebody came up with using their own measurements, or an estimation?
Anyway, wouldn't be surprised if it was at least 300 W, it's got higher clocked and double the amount of RAM compared to Sapphire's similarly clocked 290 (listed as a <300 W part). The MB chipset is also important to consider, because certain chipsets use much less power than others (I think there was an article here on [H]ard|Forum about that a while back).
Anyway, wouldn't hurt to try with the old PSU first, I guess. It should just trip if too much power is drawn from the +12v rail, in which case you'd need to upgrade.
Anyway, wouldn't be surprised if it was at least 300 W, it's got higher clocked and double the amount of RAM compared to Sapphire's similarly clocked 290 (listed as a <300 W part). The MB chipset is also important to consider, because certain chipsets use much less power than others (I think there was an article here on [H]ard|Forum about that a while back).
Anyway, wouldn't hurt to try with the old PSU first, I guess. It should just trip if too much power is drawn from the +12v rail, in which case you'd need to upgrade.
friend'scatdied
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Probably not an official number available as the 390 has no reference board. Closest thing would be an AIB using the 290/290X PCB (if any) but I doubt they'd have a TDP listed for such a SKU.
AMD isn't really a fan of publishing the TDP of any of their cards. Even the Fury Nano which was marketed as the best perf/watt card doesn't have the TDP listed on AMD's site.
You can find the TDP on review sites, in articles or in the specs of competing 390 cards. A couple of examples:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units#Radeon_Rx_300_Series
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9387/amd-radeon-300-series/3
http://www.msi.com/product/graphics-card/R9-390-GAMING-8G.html#hero-specification
http://fudzilla.com/images/stories/...390/PowerColor/AMD-Radeon390-Series-Specs.jpg
Here's an excerpt from the Anandtech article:
Furthermore, the official spec calls for 1x 6-pin and 1x 8-pin which means a 300 W limit if the card is to satisfy PCIe specs.
If you want an actual measurement, TPU tested the PCS+ and it uses 250 W at peak. The PCS+ is clocked at 1010 MHz just like the Nitro so the only difference is GPU voltage and PCB components.
If that isn't good enough for you, here is an estimate of the Sapphire Nitro power consumption and it is within 2 W of what TPU measured on the PCS+.
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Nobu
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I wasn't really doubting you, I was just curious where everyone was getting their numbers from (and giving the reason for what I said), since I was having a hard time finding anything other than what's on the product page. Thanks for the links and reasoning--sounds solid enough to me.
I don't think so, look at how it's mounted: http://hexus.net/media/uploaded/2015/12/ca0ee60a-074e-4a21-8c3d-83387ab06e22.jpg
The mount seems to extend an inch past the edge of the motherboard. I don't think there's sufficient room between motherboard and an SFX PSU.
Perhaps it would work with an ATX PSU, but it also looks like it extends past the IO panel. If that is correct, it would probably hit the rear of the case.
The mount seems to extend an inch past the edge of the motherboard. I don't think there's sufficient room between motherboard and an SFX PSU.
Perhaps it would work with an ATX PSU, but it also looks like it extends past the IO panel. If that is correct, it would probably hit the rear of the case.
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Nobu
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Doesn't look like a great design anyway (at least, not for this case)--it's pulling air from below, so it's getting air that's been heated by motherboard components and using that to cool the water in the loop. As long as your RAM and VRMs aren't getting too hot I guess it won't be a problem, but you'll never get cooler than that air, and it'll be harder to cool a hot CPU than if you had cooler air going in.
Of course, that's not a problem if you have air being blown in from outside the case onto the motherboard and the air that's exhausted from the radiator is sent directly out of the case...but there's no real direct path under it unless you redirect air from the side or bottom of the case using some custom made shrouds. If you managed to make it work, it'd probably work well. It does have a blower fan, which may become noisy over time (if it's not noisy from the start), but the good thing about them is they push through restriction with ease compared to axial fans.
Edit: I may be exaggerating the significance of the paths for air to get under it--you might be okay if you have two intake fans on the side of the case. Can't really say unless you try.
Of course, that's not a problem if you have air being blown in from outside the case onto the motherboard and the air that's exhausted from the radiator is sent directly out of the case...but there's no real direct path under it unless you redirect air from the side or bottom of the case using some custom made shrouds. If you managed to make it work, it'd probably work well. It does have a blower fan, which may become noisy over time (if it's not noisy from the start), but the good thing about them is they push through restriction with ease compared to axial fans.
Edit: I may be exaggerating the significance of the paths for air to get under it--you might be okay if you have two intake fans on the side of the case. Can't really say unless you try.
Phuncz
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If the air going past the RAM and VRMs is so hot that it would be of a real influence to the performance of this cooler, those components would need active cooling anyway. If your case's ambient temperature is well above room temperature, you have an airflow problem or you are running passively which means this cooler isn't an option.
exzacklyright
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Which demciflex filters would cover everything on the case?
http://www.demcifilter.com/c220/NCASE-M1.aspx
Bottom V2, L/R side, rear, and top?
anyone have photos with the filters on their case?
http://www.demcifilter.com/c220/NCASE-M1.aspx
Bottom V2, L/R side, rear, and top?
anyone have photos with the filters on their case?
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flatlander
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Sapphire Fury Tri-X is 300mm x 110mm... possibly the largest card that can possibly fit? Y'all think it could work?
I just ordered these today:
1 0575 NCASE M1 V2 Bottom Dust Filter
Frame Colour Black
Mesh Colour Black $7.47
1 0528 NCASE M1 Side Dust Filter
Frame Colour Black
Mesh Colour Black $5.57
1 0527 NCASE M1 Top Dust Filter
Frame Colour Black
Mesh Colour Black $7.10
1 0530 NCASE M1 Rear Dust Filter
Frame Colour Black
Mesh Colour Black $1.98
Agent_Duchess
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I use a H75; it works pretty well (have a 6700k OC'ed to 4.6 - haven't tried 4.7 or above, but I could definitely go higher). Not too loud (when it isn't fully spun up), allows the installation of another fan or HDD / SDDs on the other fan spot. Sometimes I get some weird air bubble noises, but they don't last more than 20-30 seconds. At full blow it does create noticeable noise. I idle around 22 C, don't think I've gone over 55 at full load (CPUZ stress testing).
FYI, I have it installed with only 1 fan pulling air into the case (positive pressure setup); the tubing internally is setup to sort of corkscrew around the fan placement (based on what I saw someone post hear several months back). I'd never used an AIO, so that is the primary reason I utilized it. I will say I like it in comparison to the C14 / standard heatsink since it is smaller. I had used a noctua D14 in my previous mid-tower rig. When I play games, if I don't force fps limits, the whole system blows pretty hard (have a 4gb 380 that doesn't have an external exhaust system), but I don't know how much is driven by the cpu versus other components.
Hope this helps! This forum was a HUGE help in getting my build setup (finished about 2-3 weeks ago)!
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exzacklyright
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Aren't there 2 sides though with mesh panels?
Nice. Corsair just released this: http://www.corsair.com/en-us/hydro-series-h5-sf-low-profile-liquid-cpu-cooler
Curious how it performs. If it's quiet I might use it. Kind of looks loud though. It would have to beat the Cryorig C1 though: http://www.cryorig.com/c1.php
Fan airflow: 12 - 24 CFM
Fan pressure: 2.5 - 8.3 mmH2O
Fan noise level: 36 - 42 dB(A)
Radiator dimensions: 167mm x 40mm x 57mm
Total cooler height: 84mm
Fan dimensions: 120mm x 32mm
Fan speed: 1000 - 1800 RPM
"I have some serious doubts that this will perform better than similar height air coolers at tolerable noise levels. Simply the lack of surface area seems problematic to me.
But I see this being useful in cases where the're no ventilation above the socket. So, maybe not a preferable solution for the RVZ01, but maybe not entirely useless either."
Corsair George: We have yet to test a low profile air cooler that can operate a 90W TDP processor without reaching the thermal throttling levels in a small form factor chassis. We have tested many from major brands. The H5 SF is designed to do exactly that. It was built for Bulldog and similar systems, and is designed to be the best cooling solution for the form factor. It is also significantly quieter than you are expecting, guaranteed. People see the huge blower and think it's going to be a hairdryer - it's not.
You are right about one thing, though - the surface area of the radiator is pretty small so the thermal headroom isn't amazing. You wouldn't want to try and cool some overclocked/overvolted 5960X or something, but it'd do pretty well with a stock version of that.
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