My 2018 Linux Test

Discussion in 'Operating Systems' started by JSumrall, Jul 28, 2018.

  1. Vermillion

    Vermillion 2[H]4U

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    and Gentoo is booting but i'm done. It's just so much work for so little benefit and all the options and eselect profiles is quite overwhelming honestly. I'll stick with Arch. :p
     
  2. JSumrall

    JSumrall Limp Gawd

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    I read a lot of hyperbole on their site about custom this, faster that. I find it hard to believe it would be fast enough to warrant having to learn an entire new distribution's lingo and terminology.
     
  3. Vermillion

    Vermillion 2[H]4U

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    Technically it can be "faster" but does it translate to make a difference during every day computing? Probably not but there are things like this: https://github.com/InBetweenNames/gentooLTO

    That uses LTO to build all the packages and something like 27% of Gentoo's packages can be compiled for better performance. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=GentooLTO-28-Results

    Bottom line is it's a lot of work for performance bonuses that most likely won't be noticed unless it's a server where raw performance is a must.

    Like I said the eselect profiles is very overwhelming and the documentation is subpar compared to Arch Wiki. There's like 40+ profiles. Some are deprecated now, some are experimental, some bundle in Gnome or KDE, and other's that bundle all that with systemd. Now Gentoo by default uses OpenRC and all the documentation for the build process is OpenRC based so if you choose systemd you're shit out of luck and gotta figure out chunks of it on your own. Now I get it...Gentoo isn't for newbies but I'm no newbie and right now I wouldn't attempt a build of Gentoo with systemd.
     
  4. ChadD

    ChadD 2[H]4U

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    Gentoo much like Intels Clear Linux are not every day user distros. They both however push performance optimizations. Through the experimentation of both of those distros other distro maintainers find optimizations that make the more mainstream distros better. Clear Linux optimizations find their way to Ubuntu Fedora ect.... and Googles ChormeOS did build off Gentoo and still uses their package manager.

    No Gentoo devs or hardcore users expect gentoo to ever be a mainstream distro... and they aren't setting gentoo up for their parents and grandparents. ;) For Linux power user folks it can be a fun experimental toy distro... its not really a daily driver though. The only thing Arch and Gentoo really have in common is that they aren't aimed at first time Linux users really. I mean with little Linux experience you can use gentoo or arch but it requires a level of patience most people don't have.
     
  5. JSumrall

    JSumrall Limp Gawd

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    Amen. I have a lot of patience but I'm still amazed I made it this far.
     
  6. JSumrall

    JSumrall Limp Gawd

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    Just tried to install Manjaro on my laptop and that is probably a lost cause for right now, but installation on my desktop went smooth. Posting this from Manjaro on my desktop.

    I watched a video about Manjaro's prime support and was excited about trying it on the laptop, but I'm getting some funky error message booting from the USB stick. I'll worry about that later.
     
  7. JSumrall

    JSumrall Limp Gawd

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    Well, I can't even get the live image to load.

    This is the message that pops up:

    A start job is running for Monitoring of LVM2 mirros, snapshots etc. using dmeventd or progress polling (XXs / no limit)
    42.380676] watchdog: BUG: soft lockup - CPU#6 stuck for 22s! [systemd-udevd:406]

    And it just keeps doing this over and over and over.

    I fixed it by adding acpi_rev_override=1 to grub at boot (highlighted the live image option in grub, pressed e, added after all the modeset stuff) per this article: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dell_XPS_15_9560#Troubleshooting
     
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  8. ChadD

    ChadD 2[H]4U

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    Man the optimus stuff really does sound like a superior PITA. Thankfully the few laptops I have used or setup for friends and family have been one GPU or APU affairs. Granted sometimes with the laptop APUs you have to ensure your on a current or close to kernel. But you never really run into that level of BS.

    Well if you do manage to get it running it would be cool to know. It sounds like the XFCE verison of manajro should be the best bet as it uses LightDM and (I assume) Should work with manjaros optimus switcher thing. (sounds like stock Gnome is probably a no go unless you replace GDM)
     
  9. JSumrall

    JSumrall Limp Gawd

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    I'm once again running into a problem on my desktop. As soon as I install the nvidia driver, the system won't boot.

    *sigh*
     
  10. JSumrall

    JSumrall Limp Gawd

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    I got it up and running by adding acpi_rev_override=1 and nouveau.modeset=0. I downloaded the Gnome version of Manjaro but I'm honestly not sure what it is. I downloaded Gnome on Arch and it looks completely different than Gnome in Manjaro.
     
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  11. JSumrall

    JSumrall Limp Gawd

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    I've booted between Arch and Manjaro a few times now to confirm that both are indeed running Gnome 3.32.1. However, Manjaro's version of Gnome looks a heck of a lot more like Budgie than pure Gnome.
     
  12. ChadD

    ChadD 2[H]4U

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    Arch installs 100% vanilla gnome I believe. Manjaro has their own Gnome theme and defaults a bunch of common popular extensions on. Different philosophies Arch goes for the vanilla this is the way the package developers make it. Manjaro are creating an actual new user Distro that is intended to be ready to go or close to ready to go at install.

    If you try and get manjaro 100% functional It sounds like if you want to try and use their optimius switcher software you may have to change your greeter.
    https://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php/Install_Display_Managers
    Manjaro has a pretty good how to up for switching display managers. GDM is the default Manjaro Gnome manager which they say has issues with their GPU switcher right now. Might want to switch to LightDM or SDDM. Both would make it easier if you wanted to install more then one DE anyway.

    Great thing about Gnome its easy to customize.
    https://extensions.gnome.org/
    You can grab new extensions here. And Manjaro default installs Gnome Tweak tool for you. Just search Tweak and it will pop up. From the tweak tool you can turn extensions on and off and play with their settings. You can also change fonts, font sizing ect ect. (another difference I guess manjaro changes the default fonts I believe)
    One of the first things I do when I setup a new Gnome distro... is go to
    https://fonts.google.com/
    and grab a ton of fonts. Sans S fonts work best for OS fonts.
    I normally just select a bunch then download the zip from google. Open a terminal in my download directory and use the unzip command to unzip the file to /usr/share/fonts

    Gnome has lots of options can look like a mac like a windows machine or pure vanilla out of your way Gnome.
    Heck my wife insists on using dash to panel on our HTPC
    https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/1160/dash-to-panel/
    I would say I can't stand the stupid bar but its sort of grown on me too. At least I still have my activities one super click away. lol
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  13. JSumrall

    JSumrall Limp Gawd

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    Honestly I'm leaning more to just sticking with Arch with vanilla Gnome but who am I kidding. I try way too many distributions to try and stick with just one. lol
     
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  14. JSumrall

    JSumrall Limp Gawd

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    I honestly liked Windows 8 and Vanilla Gnome reminds me a lot of it.

    The overall design of the UI that is.
     
  15. JSumrall

    JSumrall Limp Gawd

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    I will say this, I do not like the multi-layered menu that Manjaro and Kubuntu have. Way too often your mouse travels and you're 3 layers in and it resets gets annoying.
     
  16. ChadD

    ChadD 2[H]4U

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    I turn arc menu and the dock to dash off myself. I would say I prefer almost fully vanilla Gnome myself as well.

    Right now I switched to the Ubuntu font, but I change between that and noto and a few others now and then.

    Other then that I run a hot corner configuration extension so I can turn it off... hot corners are not my thing. I run a sound input extension which adds a handy audio device switch to my task bar as I often have 2 or 3 audio devices plugged in. That is pretty much it for me.

    Gnome activities your right its a bit like windows 8 if MS had learned anything from what they where cribbing they would have done it proper. Windows 8 has the same idea but hides their search behind another click which was its main down fall imo. When I hit the super key and pop up activities the biggest + is being able to type what I'm looking for and just hitting enter. No mouse required. Super Key "v" and enter to pop up VLC; Super key and "t" enter and I got my terminal (or I have to tab off transmission lol) ect ect.... and its the best alt tab that makes multiple desktops actually make sense.

    EDIT I guess I also change most of my GTK theming. I think I'm running evopop for my GTK and adapta for my shell (can't stand dark screen notifications ect) right now. Evopop looks great and has the nice touch colour coded window decorations.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
  17. JSumrall

    JSumrall Limp Gawd

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    I think its downfall was not giving people the option between a traditional desktop or the metro desktop. Some people just don't like change and will torpedo whatever you're trying to do because it doesn't please them. Just give them the option and most of the complaints would have gone away.

    Obviously it was possible since the UI had a button to go to desktop and the overall design was meant more for touch input and it changed based on the screen size and device you were using.

    Stubbornly refusing to give people what they want is never going to work out.
     
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  18. ChadD

    ChadD 2[H]4U

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    Probably quite true.

    I just think if they had thought about keyboard input for 2 seconds it would have been easy to please everyone. Gnome activities imho does that... its perfect for touch while still being more powerful then a stupid menu system for keyboard users. Windows metro with instant access keyboard search would have been such a minor change that would have made such a major improvement. They also should have completely cirbbed gnome and made it a form of alt tab with at least half the screen showing running programs to allow easy switching. lol I guess they should have just 100% copied Gnome. :)
     
  19. JSumrall

    JSumrall Limp Gawd

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    I agree a melding of the two would have been the best experience.
     
  20. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Like all Windows 7 and newer, you just start typing- their downfall was in not making this fairly obvious. We use this all the time on our Server 2012 machines that have the same basic GUI functionality.
     
  21. JSumrall

    JSumrall Limp Gawd

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    I'm really enjoying Arch with Vanilla Gnome on the Optimus laptop. It is clean, empty, and if I need something, I just add it.

    Now, I just need to not break it hahaha
     
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  22. JSumrall

    JSumrall Limp Gawd

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    I'm not exactly sure why that config file is being put in /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d. I'm not sure if it is part of X, or something X is doing, but it was what was wrong with my desktop not loading Gnome after the nvidia driver installed. After I modified it my desktop started loading gnome just fine.
     
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  23. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    So, Solus 4 released recently- very smooth OS.

    I put it into a Gnome Boxes VM on my 8550U / 16GB ultrabook with Fedora 30 Beta and have been surprised how snappy the whole thing is versus Virtualbox or Hyper-V. Last time I tried to run it in a VM, support was pretty thin.
     
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  24. JSumrall

    JSumrall Limp Gawd

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    For some reason the file keeps getting modified back to the original and it keeps borking GDM. Thankfully I can open TTY2, modify, save, and after reboot it fixes the problem.

    I need to figure out if it is nVidia or X creating the original. Maybe then I can submit a bug report.

    Just to be clear, something is creating an X configuration file in /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d called 10-nvidia-drm-outputclass.conf:

    Code:
    Section "OutputClass"
        Identifier "intel"
        MatchDriver "i915"
        Driver "modesetting"
    EndSection
    
    Section "OutputClass"
        Identifier "nvidia"
        MatchDriver "nvidia-drm"
        Driver "nvidia"
        Option "AllowEmptyInitialConfiguration"
        Option "PrimaryGPU" "yes"
        ModulePath "/usr/lib/nvidia/xorg"
        ModulePath "/usr/lib/xorg/modules"
    EndSection
    When the conf file is in this state, GDM will hang with a cursor in the upper left hand corner, basically making the system non-bootable into the GUI. I can still access the CLI through another TTY.

    Once I login under a different TTY, I can modify the conf file using nano to look like this:

    Code:
    Section "OutputClass"
        Identifier "nvidia"
        MatchDriver "nvidia-drm"
        Driver "nvidia"
        Option "AllowEmptyInitialConfiguration"
        ModulePath "/usr/lib/nvidia/xorg"
        ModulePath "/usr/lib/xorg/modules"
    EndSection
    Basically, remove the intel section, and the option for "PrimaryGPU". Once saved and rebooted, GDM and Gnome will load.
     
  25. JSumrall

    JSumrall Limp Gawd

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    Cool. I got Arch w/ Vanilla Gnome up and running on my main desktop. World of Warcraft as well as the Battle.net launcher are both up and running thanks to Lutris. Oddly enough the game seems to look better and run smoother under Linux than Windows.
     
  26. ThatITGuy

    ThatITGuy Limp Gawd

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    Curious, did you install the Nvidia Optima driver or the non-optima Nvidia driver(i might have missed this)? I tried to play with Optimus on the laptop I stuck Manjaro on (i went with KDE instead of Gnome), but just installed the Nvidia driver for simplicity sake. Now everything uses that Nvidia driver, but I am ok with that.
     
  27. ThatITGuy

    ThatITGuy Limp Gawd

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    I have actually found this for some of my games as well.
     
  28. JSumrall

    JSumrall Limp Gawd

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    There's only one driver. pacman -S nvidia for current machines.

    Most of my problem stemmed from configuring X to deal with the way optimus forces data from two cards through one output.

    Kubuntu handled it best of all out of the box. It just worked and the Ubuntu team built in PRIME switching into nvidia-settings.

    With Arch I can switch cards by fiddling with .conf files in /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d as I previously posted.
     
  29. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Could be but then again, it could also be a placebo effect. Oh well, just so long as you both are getting what you want out of it...... :)
     
  30. ChadD

    ChadD 2[H]4U

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    Its not. I have found the same thing with multiple games... its like the windows driver culls more stuff out at the same settings. I believe its aggressive windows driver "optimizations"... but it could also be something the open stack is doing properly. (following the actual standard lol).

    I will say I have noticed it on both AMD and Nvidia hardware.... so if it is optimization at fault at least everyone is cheating benchmarks equally.

    The most frustrating part is I think almost every heavy Linux gamer reports the same types of things... Linux looking better with the same settings. So that little 5-10% performance that most of the popular games give up under Linux is imo complete BS. I would say performance is = and perhaps better under Linux... its just windows drivers are doing more aggressive culling, less aggressive texture filtering, and I'm sure a ton of other tricks to try and one up each other on the latest round of Toms hardware benchmarks. lol
     
  31. Vermillion

    Vermillion 2[H]4U

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    OK I have decided to go full stupid and will be attempting LFS on a spare E7270...

    God help me!
     
  32. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    In your opinion, anyways. Whether it was Windows or Linux that was doing it, I would need actual, verifiable proof for that. That said, it is not all that important anyways, just so long as the person is enjoying their gaming.
     
  33. JSumrall

    JSumrall Limp Gawd

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    We're just talking here man. No one needs actual, verifiable proof of anything. :)

    Since I have yet to get SLI up and running in Linux, I can't compare apples to apples anyway.

    World of Warcraft on one card in Linux runs fine. I have in game settings set to 7 out of 10. I get 70 to 150fps depending on where I am and what's going on. I do enable raid settings and back the spell effects way off, but that's more so I can see what's going on than for any performance reasons.
     
  34. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    True. That said, SLI does not work well at all anyways, nor does crossfire, at least not anymore. DX12 mGPU works pretty good, when the game support it's, mostly. It sucks but, mGPU seems to more of a thing of the past, as much as I do not like that. :(

    As for WoW, I have never played it or even installed it. However, I think the Wolfenstein Enemy Territory and UT2004 has or at least had Linux native versions and those were my go to online games.
     
  35. Algrim

    Algrim [H]ard|Gawd

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    When I had my AMD card I used to play WoW with OpenGL (on Windows 7) as it seemed to look better to me; colors seemed to be deeper. That was before Blizzard stopped allowing OpenGL as a select-able option.
     
  36. JSumrall

    JSumrall Limp Gawd

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    Yeah, I get that it has never worked that well, but I have it, and I'd like to use it under Linux as I do under windows. I see a good 20% increase in overall FPS when using SLI and the performance hits when dealing with a massive amount of players and spell effects are managed a lot better with SLI.
     
  37. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    That seems... odd. While SLI could improve the maximum framerate, and could perhaps do that without damaging frametimes, I'd expect a lot of the work to be CPU throughput-bound and for SLI to complicate that more than alleviate it. Perhaps it's a case of both, and one slightly overriding the other.

    In any case, I put the blame for WoW's performance issues squarely on Blizzard. It should run well on a potato.
     
  38. JSumrall

    JSumrall Limp Gawd

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    Well, they have invested heavily in the game engine over the years and the game we're playing today is infinitely better than it has been in the past. They even recently added multi-core support with DirectX 12. Unfortunately, DirectX 12 support in Linux is still a hope for the future.
     
  39. ChadD

    ChadD 2[H]4U

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    It is... VKD3D.

    Having said that who cares. I know there will still be games like wow that use it... but hopefully the industry goes Vulkan properly and then we won't have to worry about dx->VK wrappers for the most part. :)
     
  40. JSumrall

    JSumrall Limp Gawd

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    Yeah, I know it technically is. But I haven't found a way through Lutris to enable it for WoW.
    I saw another solution somewhere but it required you to pay for it.