Murder In Virtual Reality Should Be Illegal

Discussion in 'VR & Head-Mounted Displays' started by HardOCP News, Nov 25, 2016.

  1. HardOCP News

    HardOCP News [H] News

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    I can't tell if this article is satire, this person is trolling everyone, or if she is just a moron that actually believes this crap. I am astounded that, in this day and age, any educated person would say something this dumb. In fact, I believe it should be illegal to say dumb stuff like this on the internet.

    But this new form of entertainment is dangerous. The impact of immersive virtual violence must be questioned, studied and controlled. Before it becomes possible to realistically simulate the experience of killing someone, murder in VR should be made illegal. Until we understand the consequences of how violence in virtual reality might change us, virtual murder should be illegal.
     
  2. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    While I don't think it should be banned, it's certainly worth monitoring. I doubt it'd have a long term affect on adults, but short term, who knows. I know every time I played racing game in an arcade, I'd drive far more aggressively (if I got in my car soon after). Thus, while I suspect she's wrong, I'd hardly call her a moron based on the content. 20 years ago we discussed game addiction in computer ethics courses. I was against regulation (and I still am), but we were just starting to see signs of addiction (and most of what I saw was in MUDs, not video games), but soon after, we started see people addicted to evercrack and later WoW, so I'm not going to write off what she's said as possible, but I'm not willing to regulate something when there's no evidence one way or another.
     
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  3. Twisted Kidney

    Twisted Kidney 2[H]4U

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    Everything we view, consume, experience, or think about should be carefully crafted under that watchful eye of concerned special interest groups, corporations, and religious leaders.
     
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  4. viscountalpha

    viscountalpha 2[H]4U

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    I hope this lady checks into a psych ward. She is clearly delusional.
     
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  5. razor1

    razor1 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    The only reason people think this way is because they are truly not educated. Simpletons feel like anything we see or do changes our base morality to the worse, which is just purely fictional, its the people that have no morals to begin with that change for the worse. Don't blame those people watch or do, blame the damn people that are actually doing the things that we as a society frown upon!

    Same damn argument saying video games are too violent, guess what world crime rates haven't escalated since the advent of 3d games. Just said that people who use statistics with mass shootings and video games, don't go back and check their history before making crazy comments.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2016
  6. NeoNemesis

    NeoNemesis 2[H]4U

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    They said the same thing about music, movies, and videogames, only makes sense that they do this for VR as well.
     
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  7. schoenda

    schoenda Gawd

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    Jeez, haven't you guys watched WestWorld? Clearly she is on to something...not because of danger to players but clearly VR NPC's have souls! On the other hand the man in black might have gone a little nuts...yeah, ok, she is 100% right! No, wait... it's just a TV show, right. Gotta take my pills. Never mind.
     
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  8. Elf_Boy

    Elf_Boy 2[H]4U

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    She has a point. This is worth thinking about.

    Should it be X rated like a movie?

    The more times a Taboo activity is performed, the more realistic it is, the less Taboo it becomes.

    At what point does our brain not understand the difference?

    Current VR is still crude.... what about Matrix level VR?
     
  9. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardForum Junkie

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    dumb people believe dumb things news at 11.
     
  10. razor1

    razor1 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    if a persons brain can't understand it, there is a serious problem with that person. Distinguishing reality from fiction is based on cognitive learning from an early age. Developmental growth of the brain is based on cognitive learning lol, so if a person can't distinguish this, their brain is just under developed.
     
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  11. schoenda

    schoenda Gawd

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    I have to agree with Elf Boy...just a rating that is at least semi enforced like movies, what's the big deal, crazy civil rights people....nobody seems to be agreeing with this articles conclusion about outlawing VR murder, just like a rating or something, or maybe a mode so fluffy bunnies come out of the gun instead of bullets...on the other hand, does anybody care about VR rape, drugs, animal sex etc...on the other hand chances are we are in a VR world anyway, and murder is illegal already, so were all ok.

    Clearly a normal mind can differentiate, heh, remember the outcries about D&D back in the day? It may be a really interesting question in the future when normal minds cannot differentiate...if you think you are in REAL life and kill somebody...and then it turns out it was a VR game are you not culpable? Probably not, but, weird right? See, in my imaginary perfect VR of the future game I can choose a setting that makes me think it is real for better immersion. Only when I win/lose or a "Save" point is reached do I get to remember it is a game. Wait...
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2016
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  12. Sonicks

    Sonicks [H]ard|Gawd

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    Eh.

    She makes great points on paper but it is obvious she has no real insight into what she is writing because she cites three research studies and zero personal experience. Looking at her brief bio confirms that she is writing somewhat outside of her realm. She just doesn't understand VR the way people that use it do which basically nullifies her argument in my opinion.
     
  13. razor1

    razor1 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Its not a really about civil rights, lets go back in history, just giving an example here, when you start looking at serial murders and sociopathic tendencies, most of those things went undocumented back then, because society didn't know about them or had different views, but if you think about what lets say what Ceaser did or Jesse James did, they would be classified as a serial murderer and sociopath.

    Today's society is so driven by what we are seeing in our media and what to influence by those medias, they have forgotten our history and what our upbringing in understanding of what is right and wrong, yeah there are some people that are more prone to these behaviours because genetically or by upbringing, but no media is going to push them over the edge to do what they want to do, they will do it for other reasons.
     
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  14. schoenda

    schoenda Gawd

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    I get it, but I do think that media can push crazy people to do crazy things. I agree that a ticking time bomb is a ticking time bomb, but none the less, triggers do exist...now I am not saying we can do anything about it, shit WILL happen. If you are a raging almost but not quite psychotic murderer and I look at you wrong I might set you off, so might a movie, game, etc...so I guess the distinction I am making sort of becomes pointless....just that there is reason to watch the effects of ever increasing realistic game depravity...that's all, let the grad students and psychologist keep doing there studies. That's all. It is PLAUSABLE that there may be unforeseen consequences even if it is not probable.
     
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  15. Spidey329

    Spidey329 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    There's no victim. It'd fall into the same category as smoking weed in a no-smoking-weed zone or a traffic ticket.

    Very hard to police something like this. The only hope would be to make the creation/distribution of such material illegal.
     
  16. lironmiron

    lironmiron Limp Gawd

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    I can understand this writer because, if you have never played games yourself, it seems pretty logical to infer that becoming desensitized to violence through movies/games/simulations/etc will make you have less of a barrier towards committing real life violence. If you've dedicated yourself to horror movie and violent game consumption for some years, you know how ridiculous that inference turns out to be in practice, in real life. If you've done it long enough, you also know with total certainly that the increasing quality of the graphics, effects, and models does not really affect you any differently. It always comes down to knowing that nobody is actually getting hurt. But proving this to people who don't want to subject themselves to the experience would be really hard.

    As for the rating system, of course it should not be removed, since it already exists for all commercial games. It will remain unenforceable, since games are played within the privacy of the kids' homes, not in public venues, like movies, but it's good to let the buyers know what to expect.
     
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  17. hardboner

    hardboner Limp Gawd

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    the dumb will just be dumb
    and the smart will just overthink things.
     
  18. Aireoth

    Aireoth 2[H]4U

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    Where I live there is already a rating system in place by the ESRB, sooooooo... Whats the issue?
     
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  19. schoenda

    schoenda Gawd

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    Quite right. My bad...I'm so old I forgot about that...heh.
     
  20. JosiahBradley

    JosiahBradley [H]ard|Gawd

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    Wtf is happening to the H forum, all these sjw here defending this literally mentally deficient bitch. What's next thought crime? I fucking hate people and wish I could virtually murder them all.
     
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  21. viscountalpha

    viscountalpha 2[H]4U

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    "In an immersive virtual environment, what will it be like to kill? Surely a terrifying, electrifying, even thrilling experience"

    I would say this lady is fantasizing about killing someone.
     
  22. Gorankar

    Gorankar [H]ardForum Junkie

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    When I read articles like this, I often wonder if it is simply projection. When people talk about video games, music, or guns for that matter, I often get the feeling that the author is talking about it's effect on themselves and/or what they would do with/because X, and not the population at large.

    VR is virtual. It's pixels and sounds. Now, some content might be disgusting, or just plain WTF to me and you, but it is another, "not my business what you like to see do as long as no real person is hurt", sort of thing.
     
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  23. grifter_66

    grifter_66 Gawd

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    Jack the Ripper was obviously a VR junky from the future.
     
  24. Lunas

    Lunas [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Serial killer simulator yeah i dont think that game should be made. But murder in games sounds like it is from some prude who would like games restricted to pong and tetris and solitaire only heaven forbid you have racy cards though... If you ask me people who lobby for stupid things should be put in a special room to lobby and in that room all the cameras and mics are just turned off that way they can feel like they are doing something and in reality they are being ignored...

    Psycho-pass, Minority report, Timecop all movies where they choose to punish innocent people before crimes are committed.

    Psycho-pass - there is a super computer that reads the emotional state of everyone under the surveillance network which is overly invasive and nearly everywhere. If you read too cloudy you get sent to mandatory maintenance... If it goes to a Crime co-efficient value that is too high kill on sight is ordered...

    Minority report- Psycops read minds of would be criminals...

    Timecop - Cops go back in time and kill you before the crime is committed...

    I am sure there are more but it is a overly prevalent theme in movies and society...
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2016
  25. MaZa

    MaZa 2[H]4U

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    Yeah. In case of movies and videogames you and your mind knows its not real, but VR is a bit different. Even with the crude devices we have now the sense of being there is strong, and as technology improves the lines between reality and virtual one gets blurrier and blurrier for your subconcious. The part of your mind which you cannot control by thinking "its just a game" and what makes you flinch or dodge objects in game that are not even real.

    Now, saying that "vr murder should be illegal" is just moronic but this is definetly something that should be studied in great detail.
     
  26. USMCGrunt

    USMCGrunt 2[H]4U

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    Does Timecop address the paradox that scenario would seem to create?
     
  27. viscountalpha

    viscountalpha 2[H]4U

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    Paradoxes are some sort of myth people think exist. Anything actually trying to disrupt the space/time continuum gets eradicated.
     
  28. toddw

    toddw [H]ard|Gawd

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    Two thoughts:
    1.It's just a matter of time until someone makes a VR game where the point is to break into homes and rape and kill the families. Then you find out the kid down the block who you've always known wasn't quit right plays it all the time. Sleep tight!

    2.I wish I knew how to code, I'd make a fortune with a home defense game. Once Fox and the NRA heard of it, free prime time advertisement and basically must own game for those with home arsenals. Heck, hand out the base game at gun shows and make millions off weapon packs and DLC alone.
     
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  29. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardness Supreme

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    For the stupid kids, yes it might be bad, but shouldn't be illegal.
    It's just a game like GTA. If you are mental then you might think it's ok to emulate it.
     
  30. haste.

    haste. [H]ard|Gawd

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    Hit the nail on the head and I also am against over regulation. It should not be illegal, but monitored. Often times people go to absolute extremes when putting their ideas forth with the final intent of something far less, as we have seen recently.

    Just the angry responses on this thread show me that we should probably take a look at monitoring the effect on the brain...
     
  31. MaZa

    MaZa 2[H]4U

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    Videogames do not make mass murderers, we all know that. But that was not the point. The point was to study what effects VR has on human mind since, unlike conventional videogames, it can very much fool your subconcious into thinking its real.
     
  32. razor1

    razor1 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    It really isn't much different that video games, the tactile response that you get in a fight, you don't get in VR, I'm sure killing someone is like getting into a fist fight or boxing match or sparing with someone with that much more intensity. You don't get that from video games, you don't get that from VR. That high that killers get from killing is just not there in simulated worlds at least not yet and I don't see it happening in the near 20 years either. We would need something like a Holodeck to simulate something realistically enough to fool the brain in thinking its real. Perception through senses is something that is hard to fool the brain with because it has years or experience into thinking what is real and what is not. Its like when you see a person that has had even mild plastic surgery on their face, our eyes know something is different.

    Its like thinking a VR world will help you shoot better in the real world with a 50 cal Barrett. It will give you some experience but not what you need to be to be a effective sniper, the weight of the gun, the kickback, the use of different bullets, the type of sight, how the gun is mounted, there are so many things the VR world will not be able to give you that you need. At the end you don't even get the satisfaction of actually shooting in VR. Its probably the same thing with killing someone, that emotional rush or high, is not going to be there, and this is what killers want/need. There were interviews with serial killers they loved killing not because it was a convenient for them to do, but they liked watching and feeling a person life going out in there hands, they could feel a persons neck going limp, or looking their eyes and see the confusion, pain, suffering, surprise going on in their mind, they aren't going to get that feeling with VR. And that is why it will never be the trigger. Something in the real world outside of media is going to cause a person to go down that path. Media has little to do with today's violence (it might propagate propaganda) but the media itself is not what is causing violence its the people behind it and what and how they control mindless drones). Most serial killers or mass murderers are not mindless drones, they are usually smarter then the average person by quite a bit. So yeah media doesn't work on them.
     
  33. schoenda

    schoenda Gawd

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    NO NO, everybody knows 'paradoxes' just split off into different timelines which are infinite so no real paradox. Duh!
     
  34. Lunas

    Lunas [H]ardForum Junkie

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    To my recollection no it doesn't it kinda counts on those paradoxes. The plot of the movie has little to do with the job they do but more with a rogue time cop using it to commit crimes and alter the future.

    Any way there was an episode of st: Voyager where on a planet thinking a crime was a crime....
     
  35. USMCGrunt

    USMCGrunt 2[H]4U

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    Blah, alteration of the past imperils the creation of the time machine so you'd never be able to go back and make huge changes, like killing Hitler. I think the best you could do is go back into the very recent past so as not to make substantial changes. Say, on lottery night immediately after the final number is revealed, go back to the previous day and tell yourself what the winning numbers are.

    The ST episode sounds like silliness as well, if all thoughts of crime were illegal, how does one ponder the legality of their actions prior to acting?
     
  36. Lunas

    Lunas [H]ardForum Junkie

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    well since it was star trek the whole thing was actually a ring of criminals who dealt violent illegal thoughts as a type of drug. Then there was another episode where one of the crew members was convicted and punished based on reading his mind and as a punishment he had to relive the crime over and over every 6-8 hours everyday he would relive it from the perspective of the victim (surprise surprise the tech doesn't work right on human physiology and rather than 6-8 hours it gradually quickened to every few minutes...)
     
  37. evilsofa

    evilsofa [H]ardForum Junkie

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  38. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    Let me respond for all libertarians and constitutionalists out there.

    FUCK OFF SLAVER!!!


    Steve ...you should never be surprised....stupidity has no limits. Humanity is a very large joke. I try to avoid i am surprised statements about idiots because after saying it nearly every day for 6 years.....you would figure i would learn to not be surprised right?

    Just read this trash from WCCFTech
    http://wccftech.com/fbi-mass-hacking-capabilities/

    the level of unconstitutional and international law being broken here. The down right creepiness of our government possibly distributing 50% of all child porn in the world and to 120 countries and hacking in 120 countries where no jurisdiction even exists is amazing.

    and people are totally cool with it -_-
    (for the children of course)
    (so lets take over a server and upgrade it and take it to new levels of child porn distribution in name of the children!!!!!)
    (also lets just totally expand rule 41 even though it requires Congress to do it and even congress cant do that because it violates the 4th amendment but like that ever stops them?)

    EDIT: and again thought police strike again! If there isn't a victim than there is no crime so fuck off slaver!
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2016
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  39. JosiahBradley

    JosiahBradley [H]ard|Gawd

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    Why don't we ban or study dreams because they trick the brain into doing all sorts naughty non-puritanical acts. Really we should just jail people who sleep. See how fucked up this is when put into perspective? Like none of you have ever had a violent dream or a wet dream. Did those change your core being, did you start to murder and rape people? Even animals dream. People have been dreaming for thousands of years and have we tried to suppress them? Has anyone tried making them illegal? No because fantasy is clearly that to sane persons. If you can't tell that what you're doing is fantasy with a God damn helmet strapped to your head then you have what's called schizophrenia according to the DSM.
     
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  40. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    the whole point of a crime is that someones natural born rights are infringed. Victim-less crimes like drugs and prostitution have no victims, which shouldnt be even a crime because no actual wrong was done. Moral laws are the worst! (and this is coming from a religious person who could careless if you want to fuck and marry a goat...none of my business or anyone else's. (assuming no rape/beating...rights are obviously being violated in those cases.))
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2016
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