Mortal Shell

Comixbooks

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
16,330
Maps is small but confusing because worse thing a person can do is after the tower go and try and beat the Beast in the cave were the serrated spike is here I thought I had to defeat him in order to get Soloman's armor so I tired about 30 times with not much luck. Then I realized the armor was just on the path below him duh. I don't like the Hardening as much as Parry is alot more fun I guess. I went to the next area but tracked back to buy my weapon upgrade +2.
 

polonyc2

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
19,542
Maps is small but confusing because worse thing a person can do is after the tower go and try and beat the Beast in the cave were the serrated spike is here I thought I had to defeat him in order to get Soloman's armor so I tired about 30 times with not much luck. Then I realized the armor was just on the path below him duh. I don't like the Hardening as much as Parry is alot more fun I guess. I went to the next area but tracked back to buy my weapon upgrade +2.

just power shot him once or twice and roll away...use Hardening...you can literally do the same move-set on every enemy in the game...if you want an Easier Mode then grab Eredrim's shell
 

Comixbooks

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
16,330
Is there a way to backtrack and get out of the Ice Dungeon before you fight the 2nd boss? Would like to get some the fire stake the thing is I didn't know it was a 2 part boss fight. I know you can grind for all the skills and fast travel but then everything becomes harder.
 

polonyc2

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
19,542
Is there a way to backtrack and get out of the Ice Dungeon before you fight the 2nd boss? Would like to get some the fire stake the thing is I didn't know it was a 2 part boss fight. I know you can grind for all the skills and fast travel but then everything becomes harder.

just go back the way you came in...it's the same route...you'll run into a few save points with Sester Genessa in each level...you should do the Ice area last...to make it easier do it in the following order Fire---> Obsidian---> Ice

fast travel doesn't make anything harder...makes it easier because you don't have to walk all the way back to the Tower after each boss fight...so you need to remember the route you took to come in (the Obsidian area is the only area that changes after you defeat the boss)
 

Comixbooks

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
16,330
Just found out from another video the bridge doesn't drop by the 1st boss until you beat the Ice Boss.
 

Comixbooks

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
16,330
Mortal Shell   8_27_2020 12_07_53 AM.jpg


Bodies under the ice at least the ice level is clean compared to Fallgrim which is green out of focus mess.
 

Domingo

Fully [H]
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
19,018
I'm starting to get into this one a little more now that my work has stalled for the week.
At first I was thinking it was insanely hard, but it was because I wasn't holding the "Harden" button. I was tapping it once like a Dark Souls parry. Now that I'm holding down the button, things are much easier...but still challenging. I managed to kill my first boss (or mini boss or whatever) and am trying to figure out what's next.
Performance is still weird. It has borderline limiteless FPS most of the time, but it bottoms out in places. Adjusting details barely has much effect and I have to drop the resolution render quite a bit if that's the route I take. That's one of those things that really irks me. I'm a member of the "60 or nothing" club.
 

Domingo

Fully [H]
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
19,018
I'm officially really enjoying myself now. I think that eureka moment with the hardening is what I needed. I'm now able to travel long distances (and fight dozens of enemies) without constantly wanting/needing to go back to the first area and heal.
 

polonyc2

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
19,542
I'm officially really enjoying myself now. I think that eureka moment with the hardening is what I needed. I'm now able to travel long distances (and fight dozens of enemies) without constantly wanting/needing to go back to the first area and heal.

like I've been saying, once you master the mechanics and understand the gameplay it becomes much easier and a lot of fun...best Souls copycat...I never mastered the parry mechanic therefore barely used it (except against those low level enemies to regain health) and still dominated...all you really need to learn are the hardening mechanic and Weapon Arts (and you probably don't even need to learn this either, it just makes the game more fun)
 

Domingo

Fully [H]
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
19,018
like I've been saying, once you master the mechanics and understand the gameplay it becomes much easier and a lot of fun...best Souls copycat...I never mastered the parry mechanic therefore barely used it (except against those low level enemies to regain health) and still dominated...all you really need to learn are the hardening mechanic and Weapon Arts (and you probably don't even need to learn this either, it just makes the game more fun)

Yeah, I'm only using the parry sparingly. Much like with Dark Souls, it's high risk and the reward doesn't always justify the effort. I like getting health back, but it doesn't damage enemies as much as it probably should. If you're one of the shells with low health, one botched parry and you're dead.
I've discovered (all?) 4 shells and I've just gotten the hammer and chisel. I'm spending most of my time just exploring. The map is pretty confusing, but I'm starting to piece it all together. So far I'm rolling with Eredrim (for the sake of staying alive), but I can imagine Solomon is probably the one I'll eventually swap to later.

EDIT: I got the other weapons, too. Eredrim sucks with the slower weapons since his stamina is so low. At the same time, the sword you start out with mirrors the weapons I like to use in Dark Souls (Claymore, Zweihander, etc.), so I'm okay with that. I bet I'll still swap to Solomon at some point, but probably not for a little while. The 1-on-1 fights for the weapons were neat.
 
Last edited:

Domingo

Fully [H]
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
19,018
...and the first of the temple bosses (I went with fire) is down. In general, I found that fight to be as hard as you wanted to make it. At first I was fighting in-close and taking damage, but (after getting low on health) I discovered that circling and baiting him to do his double-swing, I could always land a jumping slash and a stab afterward. Once I figured that out, I didn't even take another hit. I'll thank Dark Souls for getting me used to that kind of approach.

My sword is maxed out now and I've unlocked all but one of Erdrim's abilities. I've generally had a lot of success using the R2 stab followed by a retreat and repeating that. That's mostly how I used to play the Souls games using clubs and large swords, so it's comfortable.

Now that everything is covered in fog, performance is definitely up and down more. The area prior to the fire temple boss had performance drops, too. Nothing unplayable, but it's frustrating to me, personally.
 

polonyc2

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
19,542
Maps is small but confusing because worse thing a person can do is after the tower go and try and beat the Beast in the cave were the serrated spike is here I thought I had to defeat him in order to get Soloman's armor so I tired about 30 times with not much luck. Then I realized the armor was just on the path below him duh. I don't like the Hardening as much as Parry is alot more fun I guess. I went to the next area but tracked back to buy my weapon upgrade +2.

30 times??...he's really not difficult...I can beat him with any weapon with no upgrades and any Shell...I think you're playing these games with too much of an offensive mindset...instead of attacking all the time you need to relax and learn his move-sets...he only has like 3 moves...play defensively until you learn the pattern
 

Domingo

Fully [H]
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
19,018
And just like that, I'm done. After completing the first temple, I figured out how the others worked. I didn't ever actually die on the 3 temple bosses, but the last boss got me a few times. Once was a whirlpool I assumed I had to go into (hint: don't!), and twice were weird instakills where my screen seemed to think I was underwater in spite of having 2/3 of my health and a spare shell. Once I actually killed him (with about 1/4 of my life) and the game randomly declared me dead, too. I encountered a couple crashes immediately after killing some of the prior bosses, so I'm thinking they're bugged or something. I had 3 crashes to desktop and all were immediately following a dead temple boss. Once a few seconds later, once 2-3 minutes later. Once while I was grabbing the gland.

Anyway, I enjoyed the game. It's short, but worthy of the $20 I paid for it. I still think Lords of the Fallen and Jedi Order are better games (at any price), but Mortal Shell was a good Soul'ish game. Once of the best, even. Maybe lacking in polish, but a good game. I definitely wish there was more. This felt like Chapter 1 of 3 or something like that.
 

polonyc2

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
19,542
I still think Lords of the Fallen and Jedi Order are better games (at any price)...

I don't put Jedi Order in the same Souls-like genre...it has Souls-like combat but it's not a Souls game in my opinion...different category
 

Andym22

Weaksauce
Joined
Dec 7, 2016
Messages
86
And just like that, I'm done. After completing the first temple, I figured out how the others worked. I didn't ever actually die on the 3 temple bosses, but the last boss got me a few times. Once was a whirlpool I assumed I had to go into (hint: don't!), and twice were weird instakills where my screen seemed to think I was underwater in spite of having 2/3 of my health and a spare shell. Once I actually killed him (with about 1/4 of my life) and the game randomly declared me dead, too. I encountered a couple crashes immediately after killing some of the prior bosses, so I'm thinking they're bugged or something. I had 3 crashes to desktop and all were immediately following a dead temple boss. Once a few seconds later, once 2-3 minutes later. Once while I was grabbing the gland.

Anyway, I enjoyed the game. It's short, but worthy of the $20 I paid for it. I still think Lords of the Fallen and Jedi Order are better games (at any price), but Mortal Shell was a good Soul'ish game. Once of the best, even. Maybe lacking in polish, but a good game. I definitely wish there was more. This felt like Chapter 1 of 3 or something like that.

I think Surge 2 and Nioh 2 are the best true Souls Like. I did love Jedi Fallen as well but it has so many non Souls Like gameplay elements that I don't really put it in that category.
 

Domingo

Fully [H]
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
19,018
I generally still consider Jedi to be a Souls'ish game. It was faster paced and had jumping (like Sekiro did), but I otherwise played it the same way. I guess it's more Sekiro than Souls, although both games were being developed at the same time. Great minds, I guess.
I haven't yet played Nioh 2, but the first one was pretty good. It was repetitious, but fun. If we get a PC port I'll definitely buy it. If not, I'll snag it whenever it's a free PSPlus title.
I couldn't stand the first Surge, so I have avoided the sequel.

I took quick stab at NG+ in Mortal Shell. Looks like Eredrim is going to struggle a bit. Enemies take more hits than he can deliver in one bar. Solomon and Harros are going to be the way to go for most players. Tiel has the highest upside, but that's going to be VERY unforgiving. You can basically only get hit twice...and that assumes you can reclaim your shell. I'm done with it for now, but I'll likely make a pass through NG+ before the end of the year. If Epic ever adds achievements, that'll earn a replay by itself.
 

elvn

2[H]4U
Joined
May 5, 2006
Messages
4,072
I don't put Jedi Order in the same Souls-like genre...it has Souls-like combat but it's not a Souls game in my opinion...different category

I generally still consider Jedi to be a Souls'ish game. It was faster paced and had jumping (like Sekiro did), but I otherwise played it the same way.


It's definitely in the 3rd person fantasy combat genre with rpg style leveling and gear/loot, talent trees/builds. Souls-like games are their own style sub-category but that's splitting hairs. The whole category includes things like TheWitcher3, Shadow of Mordor/War, Darksiders, Assassin's creed odyssey and valhalla, some tomb raiders, horizon-zero dawn, star wars Jedi order, sekiro, nioh, and the Monkey king game in deveoliopemt "Black Myth: Wukong (YouTube gameplay trailer)" to name a few. They all kind of started way back with a very old game called "Heretic II" in 1998. It had a lot of the same elements, and even had multiplayer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heretic_II
" Using a modified Quake II engine, the game features a mix of a third-person camera with a first-person shooter's action, making for a new gaming experience at the time. While progressive, this was a controversial design decision among fans of the original game,[2] a well-known first-person shooter built on the Doom engine. "

"Unlike previous games in the Heretic/Hexen series, which were first-person shooters, players control Corvus from a camera fixed behind him in the third-person perspective. Players are able to use a combination of both melee and ranged attacks, similar to its predecessor. While there are still three weapons the player can collect that each use their own ammo, they also have the ability to use several offensive and defensive spells that draw from pools of green and blue mana, respectively. The Tome of Power is no longer an item scattered around the levels, but a defensive spell that still works in the same manner as the other games in the series by improving damage and granting weapons and offensive spells new abilities for a limited time. Melee combat is also more varied, with the ability to perform several attacks using Corvus' bladestaff and cut off the limbs of enemies, rendering them harmless. Players are also able to utilize magical shrines throughout the game that grant a variety of effects upon use, such as silver or gold armor, a temporary boost in health, a permanent enhancement to the bladestaff, etc.

The game consists of a wide variety of high fantasy medieval backdrops to Corvus's adventure. The third-person perspective and three-dimensional game environment allowed developers to introduce a wide variety of gymnastic moves, like climbing up ledges, back-flipping off walls, and pole vaulting, in a much more dynamic environment than the original game's engine could produce.[6] Both games invite comparison with their respective game-engine namesake: the original Heretic was built on the Doom engine, and Heretic II was built using the Quake II engine, later known as id Tech 2. Heretic II was favorably received at release because it took a different approach to its design.[7]


An early Farron Keep Great Swamp? complete with climbing vines and chains, and slow rate poison water
TGDsQQw.png

Pyromancy? The full animation looks very similar to dark souls' fireball
1eTXBNt.png

Helpful NPCs in "shrine" safe areas who need things to be brought to them to assist you further
GiA73lO.jpg

"A pleasure to make your aquaintance, ashen one"

o6gnXB1.jpg

Evil priestly boss fight in a cathedral
CPQgFTC.jpg


Just like most people call MMO's "WoW clones" , dark souls became a moniker for a genre like metroidvania did.

From what I've seen of mortal shell on twitch, it is a more direct clone of dark souls in respect to the interface, art (even the interface/items art), and most of the gameplay though for sure. I really like the creature design and the detail in creatures and animations. However, while I like the look of the forest area, the level design and architecture looks very plain and warehouse-like to me in all of the levels overall compared to dark souls 3, sekiro, nioh, assassins creed, etc. While I really like the detail in the different soul's gear graphically, the fact that there are only a handful of them makes for less variety in your characters. The surge "souls-like" game also has a plain metal warehouse / belly of a metal ship level design which I find boring even though the opponents look decent.
 
Last edited:

Domingo

Fully [H]
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
19,018
To me, I feel like the Souls-like games have a pretty specific gameplay style that revolves around the management of stamina. Attacks are weighed vs. dodging or blocking/parrying. With 95% of games, you can just spam whatever is effective as much or as fast as you want. Weapons don't have weight and movements don't have limitations. That gameplay style combined with an open world and an unforgiving nature are what a "Souls-like" means to me. There are similar games like Ninja Gaiden that have some of those elements, but don't have others. Ditto with Darksiders and the Witcher 2/3 or Metroid-Vania style games.
 

elvn

2[H]4U
Joined
May 5, 2006
Messages
4,072
I hear ya about energizer bunny gameplay. I do prefer the stamina management type in regard to a lot of things like blocking and rolling. I don't like when you can jump like a kangaroo endlessly in games either. Personally though I love the souls games and some jujitsu style rolling for some characters - I really don't like the idea of invulnerabitliy frames whether from simple rolling or matrix wall carwheels that make weapons or projectiles pass through you like a ghost for some reason. For that matter, I really dislike games that don't have friendly fire either but that is another discussion. Conversely, in VR to me it's better to have my own stamina in a boxing game like "Thrill of the Fight" rather than having to rely on the stamina limitations of the boxer character I'm controlling in a game like "Creed" (which can be very annoying).

So stamina in action adventure games in general is great imo. It really could be expanded upon even. People who get tired get sloppy in both their attacks and dodging accuracy, ability to hold up a guard with their weapon or shield, their movement speed can drop (especially up stairs or ladders, uphill, etc).. as well as their overall balance vs. falling or dropping things. That goes beyond the scope of most games at the moment though.

However in Nioh you literally take a knee and try to catch your breath if you allow yourself to run out of stamina, as do your regular (mostly human) opponents. Any human or creature out of stamina also opens up much more punishing attacks from either party if they can capitalize on that weakened state. You also burn through your stamina by running like actual souls games.

In sekiro, the posture bar tries to emulate something like this too.. the more attacks that hit you or that you absorb with blocks, the more your posture bar fills until you are left in a vulnerable state.. as if you ran out of stamina and are getting fatigued from taking all of that punishment. So in a way it's a reverse stamina, an applied fatigue. The lower the target's hit points the more "posture damage" (fatigue?) they'll receive too. What it doesn't do anything to is running and jumping so apparently you can just do that endlessly. Ghost of Tsushima also has a posture meter mechanic.

Darksiders level design, builds/talents, and general nature is in the main overarching 3rd person fantasy live action combat rpg type of genre but is also kind of wow-ish or consolized true. As for metroidvania games , just to be clear - I mentioned metroidvania games because that name defined a genre even though they weren't the originators of the style, not because I was comparing them to being souls-like. Though there are a few like salt and sanctuary that have a stamina bar and collect souls, etc.

Witcher 3 has stamina and other meters though and much more depth even if the combat isn't' the best design. Assassin's creed odyssey has adrenaline depletions.. Assassin's creed valhalla is also supposed to have stamina that drains:
Far and away, the biggest updates to Valhalla this time around seem to be happening in regard to combat. Despite having the same general structure–with the special abilities from Odyssey making a return–the biggest advent to Valhalla is a stamina meter. That’s right, Assassin’s Creed is seeing another injection of mechanics that were largely popularized in the Souls series, and while this move might sound like a trite one at first, it actually makes combat encounters vastly more engaging.
Black Myth: Wukong (the monkey king game in development) also appears to have a stamina meter in the gameplay video.

Jedi fallen order has stamina of sorts:
You also have a smaller white bar just above the Force Meter, which is your Stamina/Block Meter. This tracks your overall ability to deflect and block incoming attacks. Unlike the Force Meter, it does replenish over time when not actively blocking - but taking enough punishment can stagger or break your guard, allowing enemies to attack freely and kill you.
The enemies also have a stamina bar
With some practice and good timing, however, you can learn to parry/deflect attacks. If you time your block just as the enemy’s attack lands, then you will perfectly parry their attack. Not only will this not deplete your stamina meter, but it will heavily damage the enemy’s stamina – and in the case of many weaker enemies, it will open them up to a one-hit-kill follow-up attack.
Overall it's gameplay, environments, and creature design is very reminiscent style wise (of souls-like games).



While dark souls level design and art is great, I don't really consider it "open world". It's overall (relatively) small sets cleverly designed. It's not on rails though if that's what you meant. Having free roaming sets as levels you can teleport between at will isn't the same thing as open world really. Even if you have an overlook viewing a level, almost everything in souls games is on paths and lanes, corridors, with some halls and open squares as opposed to open world games with huge tracts of landscapes you traverse. Semantics maybe .. open levels vs open worlds of geography.

I guess it's easier to say "souls-like" than say something like "visceral fantasy action adventure game with virtual cinematography, rpg elements of different builds from skills chosen in talent trees and/or points placed in character traits, loot and item upgrade gathering from worlds and boss progression, live combat with rolling and visceral attacking, blocking, dodging, parying, with monstrous creature design and some story elements". :)
 
Last edited:

polonyc2

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
19,542
From what I've seen of mortal shell on twitch, it is a more direct clone of dark souls in respect to the interface, art (even the interface/items art), and most of the gameplay though for sure. I really like the creature design and the detail in creatures and animations. However, while I like the look of the forest area, the level design and architecture looks very plain and warehouse-like to me in all of the levels overall compared to dark souls 3, sekiro, nioh, assassins creed, etc. While I really like the detail in the different soul's gear graphically, the fact that there are only a handful of them makes for less variety in your characters. The surge "souls-like" game also has a plain metal warehouse / belly of a metal ship level design which I find boring even though the opponents look decent.

creature design is definitely well done in Mortal Shell...level design is also pretty good, not on the level of From Software but good enough...the forest hub area is very maze-like but the actual boss levels are pretty linear...overall a very impressive showing for a development studio of only 15 people
 
Last edited:

polonyc2

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
19,542
for those that rushed through the game- there are some easy to miss things...Brether Corvid side quest, Baghead NPC, the Mango item (really hard to spot without a walkthrough) and opening up all the chests in Fallgrim
 

Domingo

Fully [H]
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
19,018
I opened all of the chests and ran into Baghead. Not sure what the options are for him, but I gave him some items and said I wanted to relax. The next thing I knew, the credits were rolling. With Covrvid, I encountered him but was running for my life at the time. I was hoping he was a save point. Instead I ended up shoving him off a ledge without really meaning to.
 

Domingo

Fully [H]
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
19,018
For anyone struggling with the game, one of the biggest keys is that distance fighting is much easier than melee.
The main thing I noticed in my own playthrough is that it's fairly easy to fight most bosses at a distance. Just back up, let them do their 2-3 hit combo with slow recovery, and then sneak in a couple hits. The jump/run attack in particular is a great follow-up. Repeat until dead. I started most fights at close range and then when I got low in health, I kinda had to take this approach. Sure enough, I rarely got hit playing this way. It's kinda lame, but it works really, really well.
 

polonyc2

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
19,542
I'm done with my 2nd playthrough...used the Hammer + Chisel as my main weapon...definitely the most overpowered weapon in the game...quick attacks deal a ton of damage (especially when upgraded to +5) and the Weapon Ability where you spin in the air throwing daggers while remaining invulnerable is pretty bad-ass
 

Drexion

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 14, 2004
Messages
1,361
Uninstalled this game a couple hours in. While I generally like the game, (they really nailed the atmosphere), the lock-on combat was too clunky and unfun to keep playing for me at the moment.

If you're making a Souls-clone, then it should be high priority to make sure your 'combat while locked on' is fun, responsive, and at least on par with the other Souls clones out there. In this game when you lock on to an enemy, they reduce your movement speed to about 10% of what it normally is (why? who the fuck knows), you're literally slower than a crawling baby, and your dodge/roll covers such a low distance it feels useless against any enemy with even a small AoE.

Maybe they gimped the dodge/roll to force you to use the hardening mechanic? Who knows, I'll probably come back to the game sometime in the future, I don't mind supporting devs who make Souls clones even if I don't complete their games.
 

Domingo

Fully [H]
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
19,018
I didn't really notice anything different about locked-on movement...but at the same time I didn't use it all that much either. Only on solo enemies. Normally I do, but the weapons I liked didn't have a ton of sweeping moves. I found myself creating distance and using the first sword's charged-up R2 stab a lot. It stuns slightly on hit, allowing you to repeat the process.
 

Domingo

Fully [H]
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
19,018
Performance was definitely spotty in places (on a 2080ti) and HDR is still broken. Hopefully those are still concerns. I don't think the PC version has received any patches thus far.
 

Comixbooks

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
16,330
Mortal Shell, the Souls-like action RPG, will be updated with ray-traced shadows and DLSS support next month...

lol hope the starting area looks better maybe the water anyway. Still haven't finished the game but beat two of the bosses.
 

polonyc2

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
19,542
have they added RTX support to the game yet?...I remember them mentioning ray-traced shadows was coming in a later update...I played the full game pre-RTX and liked it a lot
 

Domingo

Fully [H]
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
19,018
have they added RTX support to the game yet?...I remember them mentioning ray-traced shadows was coming in a later update...I played the full game pre-RTX and liked it a lot

Not that I can see. They rolled out an update a few days ago, but I think that just made the Rotten Autumn content toggleable. Maybe some random fixes along the way, too.
 
Top