DukenukemX
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2005
- Messages
- 7,945
Just look at your webcam and ask the FBI agent.what page of ms' pdf is that on?
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Just look at your webcam and ask the FBI agent.what page of ms' pdf is that on?
Since you seem suspicious, here's a first-party link to the page where you can find the PDF: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/wi...inimum/minimum-hardware-requirements-overviewwhat page of ms' pdf is that on?
ah i see now, youre right. i stopped at the box right above it that says optional.Since you seem suspicious, here's a first-party link to the page where you can find the PDF: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/wi...inimum/minimum-hardware-requirements-overview
Next, scroll down one (1) page, and click the heading labelled "camera". The quote comes from the bottom of that page and the top of the next one.
https://www.windowscentral.com/starting-2023-windows-11-will-require-laptops-have-cameras
I wouldn't be surprised if this is a requirement for OEMs as a reaction to COVID lockdowns. A bunch of people had to buy all-new computers to WFH; it could be that a percentage of them got burned on bargain-bin hardware without webcams, cheap webcams, and blamed Microsoft.
I could also see Microsoft having actual nefarious reasons, too.
Also, so are they going to prevent installs, or deactivate computers that don't have a camera installed starting in 2023? That would be utterly moronic. I'm guessing this is only pushed on OEM's as part of the windows licensing contracts.
It looks like they made it optional now.
• Forward facing camera – Optional*
• Rear facing camera - Optional
*Starting from January 1, 2023, all Device Types except Desktop PC, are required to have Forward-facing camera which meets the following
requirements. A rear-facing camera is optional.
Unless something has changed within the past couple of years, creating a bootable USB flash drive from a Windows "ISO" basically involves copying the contents from the root directory of the ISO to an appropriately formatted USB device. Usually the destination is a FAT32-formatted partition, but it's possible to boot from an NTFS filesystem with support from a UEFI driver (e.g., provided by motherboard firmware). NTFS avoids the file size limitations of FAT32, but I'd stick to FAT32 unless you know for certain you won't run into compatibility problems.The WIndows install media are weird,m at least since Windows 10.
With everything linux, I can just take the bootable ISO image, and write it to a USB stick and it just works, and boots and I can install.
With Windows 10 and Windows 11, you need specialty tools like Rufus that does some sort of processing to the image before placing it on a USB stick, OR you need to use the Windows Media Creation Tool.
I've never quite understood why, and why they made it so convoluted.
Unless something has changed within the past couple of years, creating a bootable USB flash drive from a Windows "ISO" basically involves copying the contents from the root directory of the ISO to an appropriately formatted USB device.
Well it's essentially impossible to discuss Microsoft being dicks without discussing the plethora of alternatives available. What I don't understand is why Windows users take such discussion so personally.Yeah it's not difficult nor has it ever been. What also has not changed are the minority of Linux fanatics on this forum who drop into every Windows thread just to exaggerate and intentionally misrepresent every perceived "flaw" in windows in order to make themselves feel better.
windows white knights
Bleh @ PopOS. KDE Neon FTW.Gonna be a lot less around if this becomes inescapable.
I'm looking around for a machine that I can dedicate Pop!_OS on, I'm impressed so far. If Valve can bring gaming over in a serious way (I hear you Linux gamers, your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what makes you cheer!) then that's probably it for me. Windows only on machines that need specific driver/hardware support.
If you must have Windows, just sign up for a Microsoft account, as that appears to be the direction Microsoft are headed.
I have a forward facing camera on my laptop looking right at the back of a purple sparkly adhesive strip, is that OK dear microsoftpron?SHould've kept reading.
3.1 Camera • Forward facing camera – Optional*
Minimum Hardware Requirements for Windows 11 © 2021 Microsoft. All rights reserved.
• Rear facing camera - Optional
*Starting from January 1, 2023, all Device Types except Desktop PC, are required to have Forward-facing camera which meets the following requirements. A rear-facing camera is optiona
So there's actually a user named "gmail".And be sure to use a "free" email (@yahoo, gmail, et al) and not a work account that's on Office 365! What a cluster that has created with that work/school/home intersection and modern authentication!
I was wondering why it became a link. ;-)
It's the same with Mac users in that people like to believe they made the best and final choice, and they don't wanna go and relearn everything they do with their computer.Well it's essentially impossible to discuss Microsoft being dicks without discussing the plethora of alternatives available. What I don't understand is why Windows users take such discussion so personally.
You might as well because it's not like you'll get far using Windows without one. This is why I went Linux because I don't have to do what Microsoft wants.If you must have Windows, just sign up for a Microsoft account, as that appears to be the direction Microsoft are headed.
I will be the first to tell you what's wrong with Linux, and there's a lot wrong with Linux. The problems Linux doesn't have is forcing you to make an Ubuntu or Debian account just to log in. While you can avoid making a Microsoft account, you will be jumping through some serious hoops to do it. Microsoft is being actively hostile to their customers. They could easily not do this but they want to drive up analytics. I have no problem taking a dump on Linux, Microsoft, and especially Apple. The difference here is that Microsoft made a problem that was intentionally while on Linux it isn't intentional. Linux can't run Windows games is unintentional while Windows 11 refusing to install on a non-TPM2.0 system is intentional. Requiring Secure boot is intentional.Yeah it's not difficult nor has it ever been. What also has not changed are the minority of Linux fanatics on this forum who drop into every Windows thread just to exaggerate and intentionally misrepresent every perceived "flaw" in windows in order to make themselves feel better.
You might as well because it's not like you'll get far using Windows without one.
The problems Linux doesn't have is forcing you to make an Ubuntu or Debian account just to log in.
While you can avoid making a Microsoft account, you will be jumping through some serious hoops to do it.
Microsoft is being actively hostile to their customers. They could easily not do this but they want to drive up analytics.
Windows 11 refusing to install on a non-TPM2.0 system is intentional. Requiring Secure boot is intentional.
That's not true. You own the software that you purchase. Multiple courts have explicitly ruled on this.Not true; regardless of what form the media exists on, you are still bound by the EULA. And the EULAs have been quite clear for literally decades: You own the right to use the software, as is, but ownership belongs to the creators.
I don't have a single computer that uses a Microsoft account and I have not been prevented from doing anything yet. Care to provide an example?
The two most popular versions of Linux (Android and Chrome OS) absolutely require an account.
Not really.
I'm curious how Microsoft is "Hostile" to their customers for encouraging use of a Microsoft account? Do you consider Google, Apple, and others to also be "Hostile" for requiring the exact same thing? And while it's actually pretty easy to skip using a Microsoft account, try not using an account on a Google or Apple device and then tell me again which company is "hostile"?
I'm not sure what those things have to do with the thread topic, but Microsoft has thus far not penalized anyone who bypasses those requirements, and bypassing them is easy. In fact Windows Update in Windows 11 will still find and install drivers automatically even for hardware that is so old it couldn't possibly have TPM, etc.
As much as I dislike the strict requirements, it's a direct result of people and even competing companies intentionally characterizing Windows as vulnerable and insecure. Then those same people complain when Microsoft gets a bit more strict. Can't have it both ways. TPM, Secure Boot, etc, ultimately WILL make many systems more secure. And again, if you really want Windows 11 on a system that doesn't meet the requirements there are about a dozen different ways to do it, all of which are still easier than installing Linux.
In the case of software such as Windows supplied on physical media, you own the physical media and a 'license' to use the software under the terms and limitations of the EULA. In the case of software such as Windows linked to a key, once again you only own a license to use the software under the terms and limitations of the EULA.That's not true. You own the software that you purchase. Multiple courts have explicitly ruled on this.
I believe a traditional BIOS is still more secure. There's definitely no chance of large multinational corporations locking users down to the one operating system.Secure Boot, etc, ultimately WILL make many systems more secure.
Courts have routinely held EULA's are enforceable.That's not true. You own the software that you purchase. Multiple courts have explicitly ruled on this.
EULAs are typically ignorable, corporate propaganda, without any legal backing. They're just as if a car manufacturer were to claim to dictate to you how you may drive your own car after you've purchased it from a dealer, or if a shoe manufacturer told you where people who bought their shoes from a store may and may not walk with them. You have decision-making authority over that which you own. And you own the software that you purchase.
You can see the details about this topic here: You own the software that you purchase, and any claims otherwise are urban myth or corporate propaganda
That's not the case. You own the copy of the software, regardless of the media that it's on or delivered through. This has been ruled on by the EU and Australia's highest courts, and it is codified in the International Classification of Goods and Services treaty, which the US, Canada, and I think all other Western states are signatory to.In the case of software such as Windows supplied on physical media, you own the physical media and a 'license' to use the software under the terms and limitations of the EULA. In the case of software such as Windows linked to a key, once again you only own a license to use the software under the terms and limitations of the EULA.
You do not own any software per se, Microsoft retains ownership of the software. In the case of a license to use the software, in the EU that holds value and I believe if you don't want Windows on your device you can be reimbursed a small amount for the license itself provided you definately revoke ownership of the license.
In that Wikipedia page section, there are offered as many examples of license terms being rejected as there are being upheld - and one of the suggested examples of a license term being upheld isn't one. There are given only three examples of license terms being upheld that have links to go with them. And those were decided in 1996 (ProCD, Inc. v. Zeidenberg), 1994 (Microsoft Corp. v. Harmony Computers & Electronics, Inc.), and 2005 (Arizona Cartridge Remanufacturers Ass'n Inc. v. Lexmark International Inc.) - times when the world and courts were much more tech naive and very much still fumbling around regarding how normal legal and ownership conventions translate to a digital media space.Courts have routinely held EULA's are enforceable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-u...#Enforceability_of_EULAs_in_the_United_States
Does vary by Circuit though, though at least two (the 7th and 8th) hold that software is licensed but not sold. Until the Supreme Court rules on the issue specifically, it's an open question.
The idea here is that Microsoft will make your Microsoft account part of your daily computing needs. If you want to buy something off the Microsoft store for example.I don't have a single computer that uses a Microsoft account and I have not been prevented from doing anything yet. Care to provide an example?
Firstly, they're not your only choices. Windows doesn't have many other distros to use. Secondly Android doesn't require it, especially if you use lineageOS. ChromeOS is a mistake.The two most popular versions of Linux (Android and Chrome OS) absolutely require an account.
You seem to think 2 wrongs make a right. Just cause Google and Apple does this doesn't make it OK.I'm curious how Microsoft is "Hostile" to their customers for encouraging use of a Microsoft account? Do you consider Google, Apple, and others to also be "Hostile" for requiring the exact same thing? And while it's actually pretty easy to skip using a Microsoft account, try not using an account on a Google or Apple device and then tell me again which company is "hostile"?
Then why even require it then? Also, how many people are going to know how to bypass it just like the requirement for Microsoft account?I'm not sure what those things have to do with the thread topic, but Microsoft has thus far not penalized anyone who bypasses those requirements, and bypassing them is easy. In fact Windows Update in Windows 11 will still find and install drivers automatically even for hardware that is so old it couldn't possibly have TPM, etc.
Wendell from Level1Techs doesn't agree. He thinks TPM is for copyright.TPM, Secure Boot, etc, ultimately WILL make many systems more secure. And again, if you really want Windows 11 on a system that doesn't meet the requirements there are about a dozen different ways to do it, all of which are still easier than installing Linux.
"An EULA and a Terms of Service (ToS) are not the same thing. An EULA purports to apply to a good you've purchased and own, to impose conditions on how you use your own property, and so is invalid. A Terms of Service applies to a service, owned by someone else, that you use via a subscription license or a free account, and so a ToS can be valid. Someone else isn't entitled to set terms for your usage of your own property, which is what an EULA tries to do. But they are entitled to set the terms over your usage of their own property, which is what a ToS aims to do. However, a ToS can still be invalid depending on what terms it claims. And if a ToS tries to add in conditions about your usage of your own property, such as software you've purchased or perhaps modification of your hardware, then at least that part of it is invalid. Just as how some perpetual-license software might include a component that requires a subscription-license for its typical usage (as with some MMOs), a software good that you own might have an online component to which a ToS applies for the sake of accessing 3rd-party servers, with those 3rd-party servers not being a part of your ownership of the base game software you purchased."
And:
"A perpetual license is a good and a product, and whenever a perpetual license is sold it undergoes transfer of ownership upon the point of sale. Whoever owns a perpetual license owns the instance of software it grants a right to use the intellectual property (IP) of. After the transfer of ownership of a perpetual licensed software, the seller of the license no longer holds any rightful say over anything regarding that non-reproduceable instance of software represented by its perpetual license. This legal fact is not always honoured by perpetual license software sellers (for example, Microsoft with Windows 10 automatic updates and data-harvesting) and it can take lawsuits to force software companies to comply with their legal and moral obligations and to respect the property of others and not violate that property, including software, system, and data property."
If you disagree with what I wrote, then you're just wrong. It's not my premise, it's the law and courts' premise.Disagree with this. Your very premise, that you have bought something and thus own it, is flawed. What you do in when you say you have "purchased software" is you have purchased the right to use someone else's software. It's not them trying to tell you what to do with your proerty, because you don't own anything other than a "right to use".
Unless you have bought the actual IP rights to it, the only things you have bought are:
1.) An agreement that says you have been given the rights to use it; and
2.) The means through which you can install it and /or use it.
Physical or digital copies do not matter. This has always been the model for music, movies & TV shows, games and other software.
You've never owned anything other than the media, which is just a way of transporting the content to you.
For movies and TV shows the only thing you have bought is the the legal right to view the video content.
For music, the only thing you have bought is the legal right to listen to it.
For software and games, the only thing you have bought is the legal right to install and use/play them.
As an individual, purchasing games, software, movies, TV shows, music on any media or platform, physical or digital conveys no ownership what so ever of the content. Never has, never will.
Because of this an EULA should be completely enforceable, unless you get judges who don't understand technology.
No one is telling you how to use what you own, because you own nothing. You own the equivalent of a permission slip that says "I, the software developer allow this person to use this software, which I own". That is it.
If you disagree with what I wrote, then you're just wrong. It's not my premise, it's the law and courts' premise.
This is already explained and shown in my previous post and in the larger LTT thread that I've linked to. You must have skipped over most of what I wrote, to read just the last two paragraphs while being unaware that the previous part of the post established that the matter of people owning their purchased software isn't an opinion, it's a legal fact.
The EU's Court of Justice ruled: "the copyright holder transfers the right of ownership of the copy of the computer program to his customer"
https://web.archive.org/web/2019080...ogs/eu-court-when-you-buy-software-you-own-it
https://curia.europa.eu/juris/docum...EN&mode=req&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=5213884
https://linustechtips.com/main/topi...rwise-are-urban-myth-or-corporate-propaganda/
Purchasing software conveys the same ownership upon somebody that purchasing a book or movie in physical form, clothes, cars, etc, does: You own the instance of the item that you purchased. It's yours to decide what to do with. That doesn't convey ownership of the IP on you, but it does convey ownership of the copy of the non-reproduceable work onto you.
The 'you only purchase a right to use somebody else's software' concept is a myth, perpetuated by software publishers' EULAs which are little more than corporate fantasy and propaganda, and so are typically ignorable. What somebody writes in an EULA has absolutely no relevance to your ownership rights over your software, just as a car dealership calling you on your phone after you've outright purchased a car from their lot to tell you that they don't give you permission to drive over 50 KPH with it would be a crackpot and irrelevant to what you may or may not do with your own car.
I'm going to again quote from the larger LTT post I provided a link to:
- A license is a right to use a property or intellectual property that belongs to somebody else. When you read "this software is licensed, not sold" in a software EULA, whether it's for an OS like Windows 10, a game, or an application, "this software" refers to the software Intellectual Property and not the copy of that intellectual property that you've purchased via a software license. Software licenses and the instances of a software's intellectual property that they represent are indeed and obviously sold. Both of the following phrases are simultaneously true: This software (IP) is licensed, not sold; This software (instance / license) is sold, not licensed or leased.
- All the mass-produced items you've bought, including your clothing, your vehicles, your TV, your computer hardware, are licensed instances of the intellectual property (IP) for those things. When you purchase any of those things, you aren't purchasing the intellectual property (IP) and so you don't become entitled to mass-produce, to control marketing, to receive profits from exploiting the brands of any of those things, and you don't gain any ownership of the patents for the patented technology in those things. But you are purchasing a one-off copy of the IP of those things, and upon the point of sale of the instances of those IPs there is a transfer of ownership over those instances and you become the sole owner of that instance of that IP. This is exactly the same with software as it is with physical goods - you own your non-reproduceable instance and have full property rights over it.
There's an IP for whatever car model you own. You don't own the IP for your car model, or the Ford, Tesla, Honda, etc brand name. But you do own your car. There's an IP for the brand-name clothing that you own. You don't own the IP for the clothing, but you do own your items of clothing. There's an IP for the TV that you own. You don't own that IP, but you do own your TV. There's an IP for the software that you own. You don't own the IP for the software, but you do own your software.
The EU contains a half-billion people. It is very relevant on that grounds, alone. But I mentioned EU, Australian, US, Canadian, UK, and other Western countries' law. It is the same everywhere in the West: when you purchase software, you own that software. So, I don't know why you're singling out the EU. Again, you must not have read most of the post of mine that you first responded to.EU law is completely irrelevant to anywhere that is not in the the EU, it does not set precedent anywhere else, and it has no jurisdiction outside of its borders, so it can be completely and totally ignored anywhere and everywhere else. What the EU court of justice thinks is frankly completely and totally irrelevant. That, and they have a vested interest in countering the U.S. tech industry. They have been hostile to U.S. industry forever, and this is just another way for them to pervert the law in their favor. If I were them I would just have given the EU the middle finger and said "well I guess we aren't doing business there anymore", revoking all licenses sold in the EU (and taking steps to render them inoperable) and file a complaint with the WTO
It's simply another form of the low key trade war they have been waging on U.S. tech and IP for decades, those ungrateful bastards.
These are the same people who blame Google (not the content originator) for content they don't like, when Google is simply indexing what has been published.
Quite frankly the European Commission, and the European Court of Justice can go pound sand. They have absolutely no credibility what so ever when it comes to property rights.
When you pay for something what you are getting for it is entirely up to the seller. It's a form of contract. If EULA's are void then so are all contracts. You can either choose to accept the terms or you can choose to not partake. You can't just override the wishes of the seller and what they are intending to sell you.
No. What I've said, which is what the law says, is that when you agree to outright buy, not rent, a car, you then own that car and possess the rights that come with owning something. What you're proposing is akin to if a car salesman shouts at you as you're driving your newly-purchased car off the dealership lots some caveat that wasn't agreed to during the purchase, and so is irrelevant to your ownership over your car. The way that you've framed the process and conditions of buying software in your mind don't correspond to the actual process and conditions.What you are proposing is tantamount to entering into an agreement to rent a car and then proclaiming that in your opinion they have sold you the car and it is now yours and refusing to return it. It is so counter to any and all reason as to be absurd. Of course it came from the European Court of Justice....
No wonder Microsoft, Adobe and so many others are moving to terrible so scription models. They have been forced there by illogical and ethically improper bullshit like this.
Ok hold up here, because I don't think you understand how powerful the EU is. If the EU tells Microsoft to stop forcing people to use their web browser, then we Americans will also get that benefit because Microsoft isn't going to control who installs what version of Windows relevant to their country. Noticed that every website now wants you to accept their cookies? That's also from the EU since they've required this for a while. The thing you need to understand is that if the EU requires it then the rest of the world will probably get it because it's too difficult to determine who's in what country. The situation also works the other way if America passes a law that requires Microsoft to stop making it difficult for people to avoid making a Microsoft account when using Windows, then you bet that everyone in the world including the EU will not have to dig around to avoid making a Microsoft account. Which we should totally do but we're so far right that I'm surprised we haven't made a holiday to purge the unwanted with all the guns we simply refuse to part with.EU law is completely irrelevant to anywhere that is not in the the EU, it does not set precedent anywhere else, and it has no jurisdiction outside of its borders, so it can be completely and totally ignored anywhere and everywhere else.
If you found out how much crap American companies are doing to make China happy, then you'd realize that these companies are about as American as the very computer you're using to post this. These companies will fuck you side ways if it meant getting in the Chinese market, because the only affiliation they have is money. They'll say they're American if it made them more money. Just like they'll say they're for LGBTQ because it also makes them more money.It's simply another form of the low key trade war they have been waging on U.S. tech and IP for decades, those ungrateful bastards.
EULA's are bullshit because they're totally unenforceable and most countries in the world have statutory law which overrides most of the agreements you will sign with these EULA's. EULAs do not trump law. EULA’s are considered “contracts of adhesion”, which means that you’re forced into agreement and no negotiation takes place. Nintendo can say you can't backup your game and run it in an emulator in their EULA, but if the law says you can then Nintendo can't do jack.When you pay for something what you are getting for it is entirely up to the seller. It's a form of contract. If EULA's are void then so are all contracts. You can either choose to accept the terms or you can choose to not partake. You can't just override the wishes of the seller and what they are intending to sell you.
Physical goods do not obey the same laws that copyright media deals with. If you do not own the car then you do not have the right to use the car. I can't make a copy of the car and continue to use it like you can with software.What you are proposing is tantamount to entering into an agreement to rent a car and then proclaiming that in your opinion they have sold you the car and it is now yours and refusing to return it. It is so counter to any and all reason as to be absurd. Of course it came from the European Court of Justice....
I would argue that subscription models are unethical improper bullshit. They're going subscription because they love money. Pools of money. That's why Microsoft released Office 2021 because nobody bought that Office 365 bullshit.No wonder Microsoft, Adobe and so many others are moving to terrible so scription models. They have been forced there by illogical and ethically improper bullshit like this.
I would say that physical goods don't follow the same physics as digital goods - in that, as you mention, it is easy to duplicate digital goods, and not so easy to duplicate physical ones. But the premise of software ownership rulings is that digital goods conform to the same laws / legal logic as physical goods: you buy it, you own it, you have ownership rights over it.Physical goods do not obey the same laws that copyright media deals with. If you do not own the car then you do not have the right to use the car. I can't make a copy of the car and continue to use it like you can with software.
i just did an install of 11pro on thursday and i still had the join domain option that lets you create a local account (used the newest media creation tool). are you on home? 'cause home's been like that for at least a year...Well they finally got me. Trying to get my Acer craptop running to I can datalog some stuff on the car (I had stolen the m.2 for a different machine) and Windows 11 will not install at all without internet. I specifically removed the wifi card and it just grays the options to advance out, literally won't let you do anything - if I give it internet it wants to verify my phone number. So now I have to go the long way around, install Windows 10 and then upgrade which will take about 2.5 centuries with how slow this thing is.
The reason I need Windows 11 on it is that Acer does not provide drivers for 10 even though it came with 10 S mode on it. If I don't have drivers, nothing works at all from function keys to touchpad. Microsuck doesn't have any generics that run this proprietary stuff. This Acer and MS combo dicked me down today, and not in a good way.
i just did an install of 11pro on thursday and i still had the join domain option that lets you create a local account (used the newest media creation tool). are you on home? 'cause home's been like that for at least a year...
if you have a pro key you can embed it into the install usb and it should use that first. create a text file called "PID", put it in \sources and add this:Yeah its like hardware locked to home. It won't even give me the option to pick the version even though I know the ISO can do it, I've used it many times and selected Pro.
if you have a pro key you can embed it into the install usb and it should use that first. create a text file called "PID", put it in \sources and add this:
[PID]
Value=XXXXX-XXXXX-XXXXX-XXXXX-XXXXX <--your key obviously