Microsoft Surface Pro 3 Teardown

I thought they put a socket in that board but then I saw the picture without the heatsink and realized no they didn't. I hate that.
 
Ashbringer said:
I thought they put a socket in that board but then I saw the picture without the heatsink and realized no they didn't. I hate that.
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You should hate that to take it apart you need to separate it from glue/tape way more than a low profile tablet soders the cpu directly to the board.
 
Ashbringer said:
I thought they put a socket in that board but then I saw the picture without the heatsink and realized no they didn't. I hate that.
Click to expand...

Thats a really silly complaint... You going to destroy your surface to upgrade the CPU?
 
I finally was able to sell my Ultrabook and have the cash in hand to go buy this but I want it as an artists tablet and Gabe over at Penny Arcade recommends not buying it that there is lag and many other issues. I hate that I have to keep waiting year after year for something affordable to come out, that has excellent build quality and support.

I'm hoping that other name brand manufactures take a look a the market in this area, for artists and bring something to market soon that does everything right.
 
Whatever huge knock against surface. A device that can clear 2k is going to be a brick when the battery craps out. And this device seems to go further than apple to make sure its planned obsolescence. You are going to destroy the screen to get to ANYTHING in the device. Be warned to buy an extended warranty with this device which covers your max use case and resale desires.

They layout of surface is completely unneeded. They could have separated the back and left screws to open it up without adding any height and this would have at least exposed many internal component and even left the option for surface displays to come with the surrounding support ring and display as a unit for everything else to be dropped into. This is already a somewhat niche device so no one is going to want to work on it.
 
SixFootDuo said:
Gabe over at Penny Arcade recommends not buying it that there is lag and many other issues.
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If I'm not mistaken, he then made a follow up comment after his first post. Microsoft did seem to fix some of the issues he had with it. Here's the post: http://www.penny-arcade.com/news/post/2014/06/16/surface-pro-3-update

He actually does mention the "lag" is still present - though Anandtech mentions that it actually has about 30ms less lag... <shrugs />

I just bought mine on Saturday, and I love it. I have the original Surface Pro which I basically used for drawing - I'm no professional artist, it's just a hobby; which is to say, I don't notice any lag and if there is, I don't know any better, heh!

The only thing I don't like so far is the fact that the pen uses a battery... I hate batteries :mad:

But, again, I'm no professional artist.
 
Killerfry. When I've test driven the Surface Pro 3 at the Microsoft store, or Microcenter, etc I've noticed that you have to push down kinda hard to get the pen and fresh paint to work. Much harder than a normal pen / pencil would be. I've read elsewhere that this is a known issue with the pen and fresh paint and that Microsoft is working on a fix.

What has your experience been so far pressure wise?

I do custom tattoo work to supplement my monthly income, professionally, but I am tried to my desk using a Monoprice 19" graphics tablet. It also uses N-Trig.

I would rather have a cost effective portable solution like the Surface Pro 3.
 
rudy said:
Whatever huge knock against surface. A device that can clear 2k is going to be a brick when the battery craps out. And this device seems to go further than apple to make sure its planned obsolescence. You are going to destroy the screen to get to ANYTHING in the device. Be warned to buy an extended warranty with this device which covers your max use case and resale desires.

They layout of surface is completely unneeded. They could have separated the back and left screws to open it up without adding any height and this would have at least exposed many internal component and even left the option for surface displays to come with the surrounding support ring and display as a unit for everything else to be dropped into. This is already a somewhat niche device so no one is going to want to work on it.
Click to expand...

Even when charged daily the battery still has 80% of it's capacity after 4.5 years. That would probably cover the life of the device for most people and then some.
 
SixFootDuo said:
What has your experience been so far pressure wise?
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Well, I use Sketchbook Pro, and I tend to do light strokes. Nevertheless, and as it is mentioned in Anandtech's review, if you apply pressure the screen does get a little bit distorted. Kinda like when you press a finger on an LCD.

So far it's not been a problem to me, but I understand how it can be annoying - for the artist - and potentially damaging to the device if you press on it a lot. The original Surface Pro was great at that, but it's my understanding they had to make the screen thinner to achieve the new form factor.

Supposedly they are going to come up with a better... uh... "pressure curve"? I really hope they do. Especially for those artist with a heavier hand.
 
That's assuming the battery will hold it's charge to spec and work as advertised / designed / engineered.

There are just too many unknowns. Many of us have been burned before in this manner. I have a 3 year old Apple 3GS phone in perfect condition that I wanted to give to my friend. It had no value but still looked and worked perfectly. Only when I pulled it out of the closet the phone had separated because the battery had bloated / swelled up destroying the phone in the process ( true story )

It's no secret that more so than ever, manufactures are building in / designing their devices to become obsolete. It's called Planned obsolescence or built-in obsolescence and you can read about it here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence

Basically what has happened with the Surface Pro 3 and it's battery is that they want you to buy sooner rather than later. Much much sooner.

I have many things in my home that are well over 5 years old and electronic that I still use or have passed on to family or friends to use. Of course now, manufactures are realizing they are losing money and are trying to change consumer habits by being more aggressive in this area.

Here's a good example. let's say you have newborn son or daughter that's 6 months old. Being a young adult / adult and drawing upon your own experience as a child and the fascination in art that most of us had, you know that one day you will want to be able to give your 6 or 7 year old Surface Pro 3 to your kid to do art projects on. But you can't because the battery has long ago died and you can't replace it.

We are talking $1,080 dollars here.

Personally, this bothers me.
 
Thanks Killerfry. I do remember reading about the pressure curve profiles last night and how Gabe really liked pressure curve B. Also, I just read through the SP3 teardown article and saw how thin the glass was. Very bothersome! I've been out to the Microsoft Store at Oak Park mall here in Kansas City 3 times playing with the Surface Pro 3. I really really REALLY want it.

At this point, I'm thinking this is not the product for me.

When Gabe mentioned that the Surface Pro 3 engineers looked at each other in disbelief when Gabe pointed out / demonstrated how easy it was to hit Windows Start button while working on an art project, it was clear to me that hardly any real effort went into the design of this product as it relates to any potential artists. Admittedly, their solution for this was very cleaver, but still.

Luckily the cycle for these types of devices is a short 12 months and I an hoping something comes out soon that is executed perfectly in regards to artists.
 
FWIW, the Surface Pro 2 (and Pro 1, obviously) does not have many of the same issues the Pro 3 does.

It's a Wacom digitizer instead of N-trig. Doesn't have the weird thin screen. 'Start' button is centered on the bottom instead of the side. Etc.

Of course, it's a smaller device, but...IMHO, it works pretty darn good.
 
bpmurrGT said:
Even when charged daily the battery still has 80% of it's capacity after 4.5 years. That would probably cover the life of the device for most people and then some.
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Maybe you have a good battery, that is the whole point, different people use devices differently and batteries have a range of life spans. Might last you 4 years, might last another person 1.5 years. Also given that many people here claim that there has been no progress in computing I can see lots of people wanting to hold on to an expensive device even longer than normal. It harms me none to have the option of flipping out a battery in a 4 - 6 year old device if I want it for some accessory task. As said look at the design, the back plate could have been a single flat sheet of metal the screwed on to the outer frame.

Personally I really thought the SP3 was a great device up till about today, now I realize that the new thinner form factor is nothing other than making the device throttle more and run hotter, which by the way is a huge killer on battery life when they get hotter. It also begs the question will the higher end CPU be worth anything if its just throttled more. The ifixit scores it at 1, well I guess that is better than 0. This is just another example of how MS just is behind the curve on some issues always trying to fix issues and catch up. LG seems to be adding back removable batteries and microSD expansion. Even apple now has higher reparability than most MS products.
 
dderidex said:
FWIW, the Surface Pro 2 (and Pro 1, obviously) does not have many of the same issues the Pro 3 does.

It's a Wacom digitizer instead of N-trig. Doesn't have the weird thin screen. 'Start' button is centered on the bottom instead of the side. Etc.

Of course, it's a smaller device, but...IMHO, it works pretty darn good.
Click to expand...

The smaller part is what killed it for myself, and I'm sure a fair number of people. I really like a larger, more robust device (which is why I got a Samsung Galaxy Note Pro 12.2), as ten inches just doesn't feel right in my hands.

Personally, I think I'll wait for a Surface Pro 4, to let them iron the kinks out of this one, and get a Broadwell processor in there. I do have to commend Microsoft here though, they really are committed to making the Surface a viable and excellent device.
 
Konig-Wolf said:
Personally, I think I'll wait for
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This has been the story of surface since day 1. Everyone is waiting for MS to fix the problems. They constantly move forward but never seem to get there.
 
I've read dozens of threads on the Surface Pro 3, some in depth, some not, but the general concensous is that people are confused with the choices MS made with the Surface Pro 3.

I really hope Microsoft has someone that's a community liaison of sorts that will find all these complaints and concerns, pass it on the engineers and get it right with the Surface Pro 4.
 
SixFootDuo said:
I've read dozens of threads on the Surface Pro 3, some in depth, some not, but the general concensous is that people are confused with the choices MS made with the Surface Pro 3.

I really hope Microsoft has someone that's a community liaison of sorts that will find all these complaints and concerns, pass it on the engineers and get it right with the Surface Pro 4.
Click to expand...

How are they confused?
 
SixFootDuo said:
I've read dozens of threads on the Surface Pro 3, some in depth, some not, but the general concensous is that people are confused with the choices MS made with the Surface Pro 3.
Click to expand...

I'm not seeing anyone confused about the bigger and better screen or reduction in weight or the free motion kickstand. There are some wondering about the move from a Wacom to N-trig pen but the main reason for that was around reducing thickness from not needing an layer under the screen. Reports of pen performance are generally good with the main issue being the needing configurability of the pressure curve.
 
I'm convinced that the Surface team is a group of intelligent idiots. For every intelligent design implemented, an idiotic flaw is introduced. Just read that interview where they brought that cartoonist to their HQ; he kept accidentally hitting the home button (?) whenever he tried to draw.

So wait, nobody on the Surface team actually tried drawing on it? Also, the stylus performance is reportedly horrible and requires too much performance before the pen registers. I just don't get why they keep shipping gimped products. Though the same could be said of all design teams.
 
heatlesssun said:
I'm not seeing anyone confused about the bigger and better screen or reduction in weight or the free motion kickstand. There are some wondering about the move from a Wacom to N-trig pen but the main reason for that was around reducing thickness from not needing an layer under the screen. Reports of pen performance are generally good with the main issue being the needing configurability of the pressure curve.
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For what I would use it for the N-trig doesn't bother me. I think they do need to include a different model for artists however, more of a sideline product someone could order that would cater to their needs.

Other then the pen input issues brought up with artists I'm not seeing anyone complaining about the Tablet other then the usual haters.
 
Trimlock said:
Other then the pen input issues brought up with artists I'm not seeing anyone complaining about the Tablet other then the usual haters.
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It does look as though Microsoft has pending solutions for pen issues. The pen can disable the Windows button when in proximity now, Gabe from Penny Arcade saw that in action and said it worked perfectly on the SP3 that Microsoft gave him to test out though they didn't have a way to deploy it when Gabe was testing. And Microsoft did make some progress with the pressure curve issue and think they can straighten out the lag Gabe was seeing. I can kind of see Megalith's point, the Windows button being disabled by the pen should have been there from the beginning but pen issues with Windows devices out the gate is unfortunately nothing new. It's still kind of finicky technology even after all of these years. Even with Wacom pens there's issues, especially with precision along the edges with N-trig digitizers don't generally have because the pen emits the signal rather than the a layer in the screen.
 
I am of the opinion that repairability needs to be better for devices like these. Part of the reason why I've opted for the power cover is to reduce the battery wear on the SP2 itself, since we know that no one in his right mind would try crack the Surface open to replace the damn battery.
 
heatlesssun said:
It does look as though Microsoft has pending solutions for pen issues. The pen can disable the Windows button when in proximity now, Gabe from Penny Arcade saw that in action and said it worked perfectly on the SP3 that Microsoft gave him to test out though they didn't have a way to deploy it when Gabe was testing. And Microsoft did make some progress with the pressure curve issue and think they can straighten out the lag Gabe was seeing. I can kind of see Megalith's point, the Windows button being disabled by the pen should have been there from the beginning but pen issues with Windows devices out the gate is unfortunately nothing new. It's still kind of finicky technology even after all of these years. Even with Wacom pens there's issues, especially with precision along the edges with N-trig digitizers don't generally have because the pen emits the signal rather than the a layer in the screen.
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Regardless of these 'glaring' issues that keep getting brought up, its the best touch/pen device I've used yet.
 
Trimlock said:
Regardless of these 'glaring' issues that keep getting brought up, its the best touch/pen device I've used yet.
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I've not had an chance to try the pen yet. I was impressed with the engineering and build quality and the screen with my brief time trying one out at a Best Buy. Some knucklehead had stolen and ripped the pen off its tether so that's why I didn't get to try it. But from all that I've read and online video I've seen, the pen is quite excellent overall. The pressure issue won't effect me as I am mostly want the pen for handwriting.
 
Trimlock said:
Regardless of these 'glaring' issues that keep getting brought up, its the best touch/pen device I've used yet.
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Yet the Surface 1&2 were, in some ways, better.

Which is frustrating, as it seems like '2 steps forward, 2 steps back' with Microsoft.
 
heatlesssun said:
I've not had an chance to try the pen yet. I was impressed with the engineering and build quality and the screen with my brief time trying one out at a Best Buy. Some knucklehead had stolen and ripped the pen off its tether so that's why I didn't get to try it. But from all that I've read and online video I've seen, the pen is quite excellent overall. The pressure issue won't effect me as I am mostly want the pen for handwriting.
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Yea mostly same here, I couldn't tell you how it is for artistry as I have enough skill to draw stick figures.

dderidex said:
Yet the Surface 1&2 were, in some ways, better.

Which is frustrating, as it seems like '2 steps forward, 2 steps back' with Microsoft.
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I'm confused by this statement, can you elaborate?
 
I thought that anands review was as usual pretty poorly done in many regards. The main issue was he didn't compare the SP3 to its main competition other ultrabooks. Lets be honest mac people aren't switching camps no matter what. Second software tricks could be skewing the results. What this should have focused more on was how the thermal envelope of the device stood up to other devices. And it would not have hurt any to throw a random laptop in there to see how much performance was lost to pack the thing into that tiny chassis.
 
heatlesssun said:
Hard to see how the SPs 1 & 2 are better in any significant sense.
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Have you tried using both?

The screen, when 'inking', on the Surface 3 is HELL compared to the Surface 1/2. That 'thinner' display panel leads to serious, and very easy, warping. (Oh, and you get a heavier pen, besides - and as we all know, when it comes to weight, what's more important is the weight of the device sitting on the desk and not the one you are holding in your hand...)

Nevermind the thing feels practically like a furnace compared to the Surface 1/2.

And that button on the side...even aside from the stupidity of placement on it from the 'accidental bumping' aspect (forget using the pen - that's pretty much exactly where I put my THUMB when just holding the thing for regular web browsing), the aesthetic of that annoys me to no end. It's a Windows device, it's mean to be used horizontally, a centered button goes ON THE BOTTOM. (Ohnoz - you can't access the 'Windows' button when the keyboard is attached?! Who cares - the keyboard HAS ITS OWN 'Windows' key!)

Sure, the hardware is technically better. And who can argue with a larger display? The design it's wrapped in, though...decidedly inferior to its predecessors.
 
dderidex said:
Have you tried using both?

The screen, when 'inking', on the Surface 3 is HELL compared to the Surface 1/2. That 'thinner' display panel leads to serious, and very easy, warping. (Oh, and you get a heavier pen, besides - and as we all know, when it comes to weight, what's more important is the weight of the device sitting on the desk and not the one you are holding in your hand...)

Nevermind the thing feels practically like a furnace compared to the Surface 1/2.

And that button on the side...even aside from the stupidity of placement on it from the 'accidental bumping' aspect (forget using the pen - that's pretty much exactly where I put my THUMB when just holding the thing for regular web browsing), the aesthetic of that annoys me to no end. It's a Windows device, it's mean to be used horizontally, a centered button goes ON THE BOTTOM. (Ohnoz - you can't access the 'Windows' button when the keyboard is attached?! Who cares - the keyboard HAS ITS OWN 'Windows' key!)

Sure, the hardware is technically better. And who can argue with a larger display? The design it's wrapped in, though...decidedly inferior to its predecessors.
Click to expand...

I personally think a centered bottom button is useless on a larger tablet. A button should be in reaching distance. In my case it seemed like it worked great to be able to swipe my thumb up and hit it, every usage of it on SP1 or 2 meant removing a hand from the device making the button useless.
 
Personally I hate the Windows button on my SP1, period. If I could change anything I would get rid of it. I hit it by accident all the time and it serves no purpose.
 
dderidex said:
The screen, when 'inking', on the Surface 3 is HELL compared to the Surface 1/2. That 'thinner' display panel leads to serious, and very easy, warping. (Oh, and you get a heavier pen, besides - and as we all know, when it comes to weight, what's more important is the weight of the device sitting on the desk and not the one you are holding in your hand...)
Click to expand...

I've not tried inking on the SP3, however the consensus on the reviews I've read are saying that inking on the SP3 is overall better than the prior Surface Pro models.

dderidex said:
Nevermind the thing feels practically like a furnace compared to the Surface 1/2.
Click to expand...

Again, the consensus of what I've read is that the SP3 can get warmer but "like a furnace" isn't something I've seen.

dderidex said:
And that button on the side...even aside from the stupidity of placement on it from the 'accidental bumping' aspect (forget using the pen - that's pretty much exactly where I put my THUMB when just holding the thing for regular web browsing), the aesthetic of that annoys me to no end. It's a Windows device, it's mean to be used horizontally, a centered button goes ON THE BOTTOM. (Ohnoz - you can't access the 'Windows' button when the keyboard is attached?! Who cares - the keyboard HAS ITS OWN 'Windows' key!)
Click to expand...

I've not read about any complaints about the button causing issues except with the pen and apparently there's a fix for this. It would be nice to simply have a to disable it manually.

dderidex said:
The design it's wrapped in, though...decidedly inferior to its predecessors.
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That's certainly not the consensus of the reviews I've read. Even the ones that I've read that didn't care much for the SP3 considered it better than prior models. And it's the first one that I've really had a desire to own, simply because the prior models were too small to be useful as a laptop.
 
SixFootDuo said:
That's assuming the battery will hold it's charge to spec and work as advertised / designed / engineered.

There are just too many unknowns. Many of us have been burned before in this manner. I have a 3 year old Apple 3GS phone in perfect condition that I wanted to give to my friend. It had no value but still looked and worked perfectly. Only when I pulled it out of the closet the phone had separated because the battery had bloated / swelled up destroying the phone in the process ( true story )

It's no secret that more so than ever, manufactures are building in / designing their devices to become obsolete. It's called Planned obsolescence or built-in obsolescence and you can read about it here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence

Basically what has happened with the Surface Pro 3 and it's battery is that they want you to buy sooner rather than later. Much much sooner.

I have many things in my home that are well over 5 years old and electronic that I still use or have passed on to family or friends to use. Of course now, manufactures are realizing they are losing money and are trying to change consumer habits by being more aggressive in this area.

Here's a good example. let's say you have newborn son or daughter that's 6 months old. Being a young adult / adult and drawing upon your own experience as a child and the fascination in art that most of us had, you know that one day you will want to be able to give your 6 or 7 year old Surface Pro 3 to your kid to do art projects on. But you can't because the battery has long ago died and you can't replace it.

We are talking $1,080 dollars here.

Personally, this bothers me.
Click to expand...

In 6 or 7 years you'll be able to buy a low end tablet that is as if not more powerful than the current surface pro's for less money than it would cost to buy a battery for a 6 or 7 year old high end tablet even if the battery were replaceable.
 
dderidex said:
Have you tried using both?

The screen, when 'inking', on the Surface 3 is HELL compared to the Surface 1/2. That 'thinner' display panel leads to serious, and very easy, warping. (Oh, and you get a heavier pen, besides - and as we all know, when it comes to weight, what's more important is the weight of the device sitting on the desk and not the one you are holding in your hand...)
Click to expand...

You are the first person to reference it as "HELL" even Anandtech liked it, minus the button situation.

dderidex said:
Nevermind the thing feels practically like a furnace compared to the Surface 1/2.
Click to expand...

Its 2 degrees C warmer than the 1 and its cooler then the 2nd, where are you seeing its a furnace?

dderidex said:
And that button on the side...even aside from the stupidity of placement on it from the 'accidental bumping' aspect (forget using the pen - that's pretty much exactly where I put my THUMB when just holding the thing for regular web browsing), the aesthetic of that annoys me to no end. It's a Windows device, it's mean to be used horizontally, a centered button goes ON THE BOTTOM. (Ohnoz - you can't access the 'Windows' button when the keyboard is attached?! Who cares - the keyboard HAS ITS OWN 'Windows' key!)
Click to expand...

Not sure what this rant is about.

dderidex said:
Sure, the hardware is technically better. And who can argue with a larger display? The design it's wrapped in, though...decidedly inferior to its predecessors.
Click to expand...

I guess there's always a first to call it inferior. The memory, SSD and SoC are all the same. The screen 3:2 (and increased resolution), different digitizer and access to either i3 or i7 are what's new.
 
-Dragon- said:
In 6 or 7 years you'll be able to buy a low end tablet that is as if not more powerful than the current surface pro's for less money than it would cost to buy a battery for a 6 or 7 year old high end tablet even if the battery were replaceable.
Click to expand...

Sure 6-7 years but in my experience even in 2-3 years your battery life drops significantly and then you are SOL.
 
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