Microsoft Says “Avoid the Apple Tax”

Serpico said:
The thing is that the reminders from OS X or sudo in Linux (same thing) are way less frequent, while it happens much more often in Vista. The features and intent are the same but there is a massive difference in terms of frequency. I'm very happy with how they've gone about adjusting this in Windows 7, far less intrusive.

Or are you saying that Microsoft hasn't improved their product with Win7? I sure think so, and I generally like Vista.
Click to expand...

You're doing it wrong then. I hardly get UAC pop ups unless I'm specifically modifying system files. If what you're doing is making UAC constantly pop up, then it's a poorly written software most likely in 90% of cases.
 
soulesschild said:
You're doing it wrong then. I hardly get UAC pop ups unless I'm specifically modifying system files. If what you're doing is making UAC constantly pop up, then it's a poorly written software most likely in 90% of cases.
Click to expand...

It happens with less frequency than the first few weeks I had Vista, but the point is that it still happens more frequently than it does on OS X or Linux. I was responding to an argument that said that you also have to do the same thing in OS X and Linux. This is absolutely true, but frequency (even though it is less with Vista after a while or doing some tweaks) is still more than the very rare occasion you do in OS X. Difference aside from frequency is that you click a box in Vista, while in *nix you type in a password. You just end up clicking way more boxes.

BTW, UAC is the absolute last thing I will knock in Vista. Even during the months weeks Vista came out and drivers and system I/O were a total disaster, I defended UAC as an absolute step in the right direction. I still believe it is one of the biggest improvements in Windows. The idea is right, just the implementation needed some improvement compared to the same feature in UNIX based operating systems.

Windows 7 is only making it better as Microsoft were a bit... overreacting in terms of how frequent the notifications were. :)
 
Serpico said:
It happens with less frequency than the first few weeks I had Vista, but the point is that it still happens more frequently than it does on OS X or Linux. I was responding to an argument that said that you also have to do the same thing in OS X and Linux. This is absolutely true, but frequency (even though it is less with Vista after a while or doing some tweaks) is still more than the very rare occasion you do in OS X. Difference aside from frequency is that you click a box in Vista, while in *nix you type in a password. You just end up clicking way more boxes.

BTW, UAC is the absolute last thing I will knock in Vista. Even during the months weeks Vista came out and drivers and system I/O were a total disaster, I defended UAC as an absolute step in the right direction. I still believe it is one of the biggest improvements in Windows. The idea is right, just the implementation needed some improvement compared to the same feature in UNIX based operating systems.

Windows 7 is only making it better as Microsoft were a bit... overreacting in terms of how frequent the notifications were. :)
Click to expand...

Ah okay. I still don't find it as much as OSX but then again, I don't install a buncha stuff everytime. It seems to prompt in what I feel in the right places, (adding a new network, file sharing, etc)
 
I agree PC is a inexpensive alternative to Macs, but that "software tax" section was unfair. It lists MS Office 08, Quicken, and Other software as a $289 expense. You still need Office when you buy a PC because most new PC's come with a trial version, unless you specifically ask for it to be included at purchase. As for Quicken and "other software"....
 
Serpico said:
Nope, the Mac Pro Harpertown systems were $500-$1000 cheaper than a Dell or HP workstation with the same specs. Now that we're on Nehalem CPUs, the breakdown is as follows, bringing all specs on the Dell to baseline Mac Pro specs.



Just for fun, here are some eight core Nehalem configurations:

- Dell Precision T5500

Dual Quad Core Intel™ Xeon® Processors X5550 2.66GHz,8M L3,6.4GT/s,turbo

$5936

- Mac Pro Octo Core

Two 2.26GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon

$3648
Click to expand...

So, why are you comparing a faster, more expensive 5500 (2.66Ghz) to the 5200 (2.26Ghz) in the MacPro?

FYI, Dell's includes a display and 3-year warranty -- and thery're not the only game in town.

By going Lenovo, I could get nearly the same set up as a basic MacPro config, for $$2,378.00 (and that comes with a 3-year Warranty.

And, there are many, many other PC vendors out there which you could compare, and save.
 
Yes, the article was stupid and apparently biased.

Yes Apple charges way the hell too much for something that can be had for half the price.

Yes, Apple had dumb ass commercials, "studies", and more.

Yes, it's Microsoft's turn to have dumb ass commercials, "studies", and more.
 
S1N3R6Y said:
I agree PC is a inexpensive alternative to Macs, but that "software tax" section was unfair. It lists MS Office 08, Quicken, and Other software as a $289 expense. You still need Office when you buy a PC because most new PC's come with a trial version, unless you specifically ask for it to be included at purchase. As for Quicken and "other software"....
Click to expand...

You'll notice the 'tax form' has a note to "see Section A-2" with respect to the software prices.

As I stated previously, read the @#$% white paper.
 
Riftgarde said:
One confusion I have looking at all of this is why do people that use Apples and not PCs hang out on PC related forums/blogs/etc?

I don't use Apple computers and I don't hang out on Apple related forums/blogs/etc.

Do they do it as some form of masochism?
Click to expand...

Some people have more than one computer....

I work on a mac, play on windows :D Actually it's time again to build a game machine
 
dot_Zen said:
So, why are you comparing a faster, more expensive 5500 (2.66Ghz) to the 5200 (2.26Ghz) in the MacPro?

FYI, Dell's includes a display and 3-year warranty -- and thery're not the only game in town.
Click to expand...

Well the octo Xeon with 2.66GHz CPUs comes out to $5048 with Apple and 3 year Applecare. So it's still around $900 cheaper and has 2GB of additional RAM. If the Dell has a display in that config that's still plenty of cash to pick up an awfully nice monitor.

The point is, if you don't stack the deck... have a need for Xeon CPUs in the workstations... or conversely a need for IPS panels in the iMacs they do offer a good value. If you find TN panels to be bliss and you have no need for a Xeon then sure, you can buy something cheaper elsewhere.
 
Serpico said:
Hell, you don't even need a Mac Pro for video editing anymore unless you are dealing exclusively in HD. iMacs and Macbook Pros eat those apps alive. Photographers, 3D artists, and compositors are the main creative areas that will benefit from having multiple Xeons these days.
Click to expand...

Yeah I'd agree, but HD video is here and definitely benefits from a powerhouse. And even for doing small tasks like encoding a DVD to some MP4 format, I still MUCH prefer using my quad i7 2.66GHz to my Macbook Pro. Thinking of how quickly I could batch these encodes with an octo 2.66GHz Xeon makes me drool.

Apple was recently clearing out their "old" octo 2.8 Core2 Quad Xeons for $1899 I think it was. Man that was tempting...
 
What took MS so long to fight back?

cost of Ubuntu linux: 0$
cost of using your old hardware (works fine once you lose window's bloat): 0$
(you might even send MS a few hundred for an Xbox360 if you want to play games, or maybe a Wii)

that's why.

Did anybody read the whitepaper? Did you notice they didn't include the price of *any* software?
Yes, even Microsoft is telling you it is OK to pirate software. Just keep getting used to it until we audit you and charge you "back taxes" for everything.
 
They didn't include the cost of software because it's not relevant and all machines they were comparing came with an OS.
 
Wumpus said:
What took MS so long to fight back?

cost of Ubuntu linux: 0$
cost of using your old hardware (works fine once you lose window's bloat): 0$
(you might even send MS a few hundred for an Xbox360 if you want to play games, or maybe a Wii)

that's why.

Did anybody read the whitepaper? Did you notice they didn't include the price of *any* software?
Yes, even Microsoft is telling you it is OK to pirate software. Just keep getting used to it until we audit you and charge you "back taxes" for everything.
Click to expand...

Why should it include the cost of any software. There's TONS of free software for all platforms.

The days of Windows bloat are coming to an end. With Windows 7, Windows is now pretty sleek and will run on just about any hardware made in this decade reasonably well. Anything much older than 7 years and my phone is faster anyway!:D
 
I know one person who pushes Macs and he said it's because of the "cool factor" that people like them. It's the same thing as having the right brand of jeans or a certain type of cell phone. Yes another brand may cost less and do exactly the same thing that you want but it's not as cool, so they buy a Mac.

There are a lot of people in general who would own a laptop but never a desktop, even in the PC world. Laptops are generally considered 'cooler' and 'not as nerdy' or whatever, so people more socially concerned seem more willing to use laptops.

How many mac users own mac desktops? It's not about Mac itself, it's about the cool factor of a laptop coupled with the 'cool factor' of a Mac.
 
bigdogchris said:
I know one person who pushes Macs and he said it's because of the "cool factor" that people like them. It's the same thing as having the right brand of jeans or a certain type of cell phone. Yes another brand may cost less and do exactly the same thing that you want but it's not as cool, so they buy a Mac.

There are a lot of people in general who would own a laptop but never a desktop, even in the PC world. Laptops are generally considered 'cooler' and 'not as nerdy' or whatever, so people more socially concerned seem more willing to use laptops.

How many mac users own mac desktops? It's not about Mac itself, it's about the cool factor of a laptop coupled with the 'cool factor' of a Mac.
Click to expand...

Macbooks were a little cool maybe three years ago when the Core Macbooks came out, now you see so many of them that they are kind of has beens. If you really want to look cool and have some street tech cred, pack a convertible tablet pc. No matter where I go when I transform my tablets to tablet mode, people still say "Wow, that's cool!"

No Mac can touch it as an attention grabber plus people instantly think you're a genius, which is true in my case!:D
 
TBH I think the future lies with open source. The US is going into a depression, I suspect it will be similar to/worse than the Japanese lost decade.

People here aren't going to be spending hundreds of bucks for boated office 2k7 when openoffice is free and works fine.
 
Morel of the story PC Dominates MAC. try hackintosh for youself and you will switch back to Bill gates :D
 
"they didn't include the cost of the software because it isn't relevant..."

It wouldn't be strange if it wasn't paid for by a company that gets all* of its profits from software sales. As it is, it seems as trustworthy as typical corporate propaganda.


* While Xboxen might be sold for at slightly higher than cost (and I think have been for a few years), I really don't think they ever (without software licensing) break even. Even then, MS profits are from Windows and Office. If anybody else breaks even they are doing exceptionally good.
 
Malakai said:
TBH I think the future lies with open source. The US is going into a depression, I suspect it will be similar to/worse than the Japanese lost decade.

People here aren't going to be spending hundreds of bucks for boated office 2k7 when openoffice is free and works fine.
Click to expand...

Even open source doesn't me free my friend, software doesn't grow on trees. OpenOffice is paid for via other means than its sale to customers. As a developer that works a lot with Office, Office is FAR more than just a set of applications, it really is a platform for other applications themselves. Replacing all of the stuff that's built on Office were I work would cost TENS OF MILLIONS far more than cost of office for the next several decades.

I'm not saying that open source can't be cheaper, but it usually goes FAR deeper than just the procurement costs of the software itself. If it were simple for people who are paying money for things like Windows and Office to go to totally free alternatives people would have done so long ago. IT's just not anywhere near that simple.
 
Um how about just make an Ad state this

Macbook Pro 17" core 2 = $2800
Windows Vista 18.4" Quad Core = $1850

Budget Windows Vista = $400-$500
Bidget Mac = $1000

Seriously?

Seriously?

Seriously?
 
Arainach said:
They didn't include the cost of software because it's not relevant and all machines they were comparing came with an OS.
Click to expand...

That makes no sense. If it wasn't relavent don't include it in either column.

The simply included a bunch of stuff in the "bad guy" column to drive up that price, simple as that.
 
bigdogchris said:
There are a lot of people in general who would own a laptop but never a desktop, even in the PC world. Laptops are generally considered 'cooler' and 'not as nerdy' or whatever, so people more socially concerned seem more willing to use laptops.

How many mac users own mac desktops? It's not about Mac itself, it's about the cool factor of a laptop coupled with the 'cool factor' of a Mac.
Click to expand...

There are a lot of people who own an Apple laptop but not a desktop because they prefer OSX but 1) aren't going to use an "all in one" and 2) aren't going to pony up for a Mac Pro workstation. I'm in that column, so until Apple offers a reasonably priced performance desktop machine that is headless I'll be using windows in that space. I could give a rats behind about coolness, my Macbook rarely ever leaves my desk.
 
Wow this is great, I'm loving me some Microsoft right now. This is what Apple gets for no basing their campaign on the quality of their product and justifying the price(because they can't).
 
S1N3R6Y said:
I agree PC is a inexpensive alternative to Macs, but that "software tax" section was unfair. It lists MS Office 08, Quicken, and Other software as a $289 expense. You still need Office when you buy a PC because most new PC's come with a trial version, unless you specifically ask for it to be included at purchase. As for Quicken and "other software"....
Click to expand...

And with macs.. guess what, you have to buy office too (if you want it). In the business world you have to have it.

If you think about it, the base software is pretty even. Outlook express versus apple's mail/ical.. textedit versus wordpad.. etc.. yeah, you need office. You have to buy it on a pc or a mac.
 
Serpico said:
The thing is that the reminders from OS X or sudo in Linux (same thing) are way less frequent, while it happens much more often in Vista. The features and intent are the same but there is a massive difference in terms of frequency. I'm very happy with how they've gone about adjusting this in Windows 7, far less intrusive.

Or are you saying that Microsoft hasn't improved their product with Win7? I sure think so, and I generally like Vista.
Click to expand...

I wasn't making any comment about how it works in windows 7. I was just making a statement about UAC in general. All you ever hear is how microsoft has UAC and people acting like this is the first time any OS every had anything like it. Nobody ever talks about the frequency when they mention UAC, just that Microsoft added a feature that makes you verfy that you really want to make an admin change to your machine. I agree that they did improve it in 7. Although I myself really don't have a problem with it under vista.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top