Microsoft Rewrites Activation Rules For Windows 10

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by HardOCP News, Aug 12, 2015.

  1. rhexis

    rhexis [H]ard|Gawd

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    i contacted customer support to help with my activation and after waiting 2 hours to speak to someone they said to reinstall 8 and upgrade again. that is unacceptable imo. the only thing i did to trigger this was flip my bios switch to the 2nd bios as my first got corrupt. no hardware change other than running my 2nd bios. this is what is bullshit. prior to win10 i could call the 800 number and enter the challenge code and get a new activation id or just speak to someone and explain that i have upgraded hardware and this install is only running on one computer. this does not work anymore with win10.
     
  2. Tiberian

    Tiberian DILLIGAFuck

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    I'm providing information that Microsoft is providing itself so you figure it out. I'm not making shit up out of thin air, I'm simply relaying the information they give to everyone already - I can understand why some folks are having issues considering just how much hate and loathing they have towards Microsoft for whatever reasons.

    Even so that doesn't change the basic fact that if you're having issues with Windows then Microsoft is who you're typically supposed to contact since it's their product, it always has been and it always will be even if you pay/paid for a license to make use of it. It's their product, got problems with it? Call 'em.
     
  3. Kardonxt

    Kardonxt 2[H]4U

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    I think a lot of people are missing the fact that OEM keys are already not supposed to be re-used with new motherboards unless the original board has failed. Microsoft isn't changing their policy or terms, they are just eliminating you're ability to scam the system.

    You guys are bitching about them cutting out a loophole. It's just like online retailers collecting tax when it shouldn't matter because you're supposed to be paying taxes on the items anyways when you file your taxes.

    It wont matter for the next year anyways since a properly cracked version of windows gets a free legit windows 10 upgrade. So you guys can keep scamming the system a bit longer lol.
     
  4. Twisted Kidney

    Twisted Kidney 2[H]4U

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    My thought exactly, most of us here on the [H] change components like underwear.

    I see problems upcoming.
     
  5. Ripskin

    Ripskin 2[H]4U

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    I view Windows as just another piece of software, so if I paid to use the software I should be able to. I don't mind only being allowed to install it on one machine but if I remove it from that machine I should be able to install it elsewhere.

    I'm sure some of us have bought applications for smartphones, so if we upgrade phones we should have to spend X number of dollars to re-buy all of that software again? Compatibility is one thing but if it works it should work IMO.

    I bought 3 licenses for windows 7. My PC, my HTPC and another PC. 100% paid for copies. I have changed out small things on the HTPC's but kept the core of the systems the same. One CPU change, several BIOS flashes... My main PC has gone through a lot including a complete upgrade of all core components except the GPU and many reformat's later the same copy of windows is installed on each PC.

    I did not cheat the system, I am using the software I fully paid for on the system I intended it for. The OS is still compatible with all hardware and works, none of these 3 installs is running anywhere else so 1 license, 1 PC.

    I have ONCE had issues with Visio of which I bought a triple install license for my personal computer, my work computer and my work laptop. Well timed I got upgrades to all three PC's. The image on the work desktop was bad so it had to get re-imaged again. A quick call to MS and within 15 minutes it was up and running through the automated system without hassle, installed on 3 systems as I paid for it to do.

    It is MS's software and they can do what they want but if they cause too many problems with a crappy system (Windows Live Gaming on the PC what?) it will impact them.

    I will be buying a full retail copy for my main system and upgrading my other two for free to 10. My copy was an upgrade (student discount) so I have to install Windows 7 RC, then upgrade to the full version, and then to have to upgrade to 10 would be quite annoying so I'll refresh with a new key.

    However if I have to buy it again in a year when I swap out my SSD for a larger one or flash my BIOS no thanks. Just like my phone scenario above, I would not spend 40 dollars again to re-buy all my apps every phone upgrade or each time I reset it to factory defaults (no it is not rooted).
     
  6. RCGodward

    RCGodward Gawd

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    I threw a new SSD in my laptop a week after I upgraded it to 10. Clean installed 10, skipped entering a key, and it auto activated. Works great. I'm a fan.
     
  7. rezerekted

    rezerekted 2[H]4U

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    Where did anyone say they were using OEM key to upgrade to 10? If your qualifying OS is retail then the Win10 upgrade stays retail too.
     
  8. shspvr

    shspvr Gawd

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    Don't for get ocen to hardware your SOL you buy all new key
     
  9. rezerekted

    rezerekted 2[H]4U

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    Fan the flames.

    http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/how-windows-10-will-handle-clean-installs

    Much has been said about the Windows 10 free upgrade for consumers that will release on July 29, but very little has been uncovered about what the process might be for clean installs after the upgrade.

    If something major happens to the device that requires something as monumental such as a motherboard change (basically turning it into a new computer), Windows 10 will require re-activation – which will require you to purchase a license. This is what Microsoft means when it says "life of the device." Additionally, you can't transfer a license to a new device.
     
  10. Terminus

    Terminus [H]ard|Gawd

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    I had to call Microsoft once when I changed my mobo and hard drive out. This was in the Windows XP or Vista days (I was still on XP). They just gave me a new key, no issues.

    So what's the problem now? Are people being told to fuck off by MS? I doubt it.
     
  11. rezerekted

    rezerekted 2[H]4U

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    This is about the free upgrade version and not retail bought versions.
     
  12. david_

    david_ 2[H]4U

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    Put a new gpu in an hour ago. No issues.
     
  13. Schtask

    Schtask Limp Gawd

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    GPU replacement won't cause an issue. MOBO / CPU will. As far as I've heard, replacing the MOBO on windows 10 means you have to reinstall windows 8 and upgrade again. I'm not certain that you will need a new license. What really sucks is that if you upgrade to Windows 10, and can't roll back to Windows 8 (like me because "the files were removed"; I didn't remove shit) you're windows 8 license expires and neither bit of software will be good.

    So I'm doubly screwed with X58. Doubly. Not happy at all. AT ALL. :mad:
     
  14. Schtask

    Schtask Limp Gawd

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    Doubly screwed with X58, because I was planning on upgrading this PC next week. I'm really angry.
     
  15. Banko

    Banko Gawd

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    Btw I call bullshit anyone in this thread actually bought the Retail version of Windows.

    Everyone has most likely bought the OEM versions where MS is kind enough to let you activate it on a new PC because the OEM License is not transferable like that. The Retail license is but it's $400 vs $130.

    So stop your bitching.
     
  16. MRAB54

    MRAB54 Gawd

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    You have got to be shitting me. If I add a USB dongle doesn't that essentially change my computer as a whole? I could change my PSU, does that make my computer a completely different one?

    The point is so that only one instance is installed on a working computer at a given time. And if that is not the case, it's not a loophole is completely misleading. They aren't selling the hardware with the software so the hardware can't possibly be part of the license. This isn't apple.
     
  17. anthrex

    anthrex [H]ard|Gawd

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    Just installed Windows 10. I hope that reactivation if something arises is easy as it was with Office. Will find out!
     
  18. Schtask

    Schtask Limp Gawd

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    I call bullshit to your call of bullshit.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832416712&cm_re=windows-_-32-416-712-_-Product
     
  19. timta2

    timta2 [H]ard|Gawd

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    If there's one thing I wish Microsoft would copy Apple on, it's stop with the activation, the keys, and all of this crap that's just a hassle to consumers. The people who want to pirate it are going to anyway, a lot more conveniently than the customers who are paying. They don't have to call Microsoft when they swap their motherboard.
     
  20. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Not true.

    1. It was very easy to get free retail licenses for Vista (which means you could upgrade to 7 at a reasonable price)

    2. Lots of people used Technet around the time of 7 and those were retail licenses
    3. You could buy a retail 8 license for 15 bucks when it came out.

    People have retail licenses. Every version of windows I've run has been a retail license (well everything from XP on).
     
  21. Schtask

    Schtask Limp Gawd

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    Same experience here. I never buy the OEM licenses, because it isn't much different on cost.
     
  22. Adidas4275

    Adidas4275 [H]ardness Supreme

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    depends on how many items are changed. it creates a hash based on the hardware, likely the TPM unit on the motherboard.

    But I just called the activation line yesterday for an issue and a CSR answered with no hold or anything. Just 2 rings.

    Really easy.

    in the end it is a better deal for 99% of consumer and really the same amount of work as it was with the old system.
     
  23. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Apple can do that, because they charge you several hundred for the OS when you buy a Mac. MS probably gets 60 bucks or so for a license when you buy a PC.
     
  24. RPGWiZaRD

    RPGWiZaRD [H]ard|Gawd

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    They should just allow revoking/transferring licenses. Before you do an upgrade you revoke it and the windows 10 copy turns out as if it wasn't registered and then you swap the parts and activate the license again with a license transfer tool.
     
  25. Lith1um

    Lith1um 2[H]4U

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    So basically, MS went from offshoring the reactivation code to India, to eliminating the activation personnel altogether. Cha-Ching!

    /Can't say that I feel sorry for those personnel, with respect to that it's more like a case of what comes around goes around to me.
     
  26. mope54

    mope54 [H]ardness Supreme

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    No, he's not lying. I clearly laid out my experience in those posts and you argued over it for days with me, too.

    The part you are leaving out, and still misinformed/wrong about, is that you keep arguing the resolution is to contact MS and get the activation sorted but MS tells any of us who have had hardware changes to reinstall Windows 7 or 8.1 and upgrade it again.

    No one wants to do that when a hardware change occurs. It's a needless hassle. It should be like it's always been where you call in and get a new key to plug in to reactivate the new hardware without reinstalling any OS much less an older OS and then forcing to update over that and *then* reinstalling 10 again if you want a completely clean install :rolleyes:


    If that was true the price of their hardware would have changed when they switched from charging for OS X to not charging for it. Not sure how anyone uttering this statement completely fails the logic test but it is what it is.
     
  27. mope54

    mope54 [H]ardness Supreme

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    That's pretty much what they're telling us. They can't give out new keys as there aren't any keys to be given and the hardware hash is stored on the servers.

    If you need a new activation you have to reinstall a qualifying OS and upgrade from within it to generate a new activation hash.
     
  28. Tiberian

    Tiberian DILLIGAFuck

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    And yet the answer and the methodology are still exactly the same since XP was released.

    (surely this deserves yet another eye-roll)
     
  29. Terminus

    Terminus [H]ard|Gawd

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    Windows 10 upgrade is free for people who have bought Windows 7 and 8. If you don't have legitimate copies of either then yes, you need to pay Microsoft $150 or whatever it is for a Windows 10 license. If after the free year period ends and you change systems then just call them up and have the license deactivated on the old system then reactivated on the new system. This is the same way it has been since the Windows XP days (I still remember the last time we had this conversation back in 2002).

    You know, I'm the first one to turn a blind eye to pirates when it comes to the MPAA and RIAA violating our rights as consumers but this Windows non-scandal and this thread in particular is coming from a place of misplaced animosity and borderline corruption an it's disturbing that the lot of you think you are entitled to steal whatever you want simply because it is digital or because you have some deep rooted love/hate relationship with this corporation and think you outa stick it to them.
     
  30. CacaSapo

    CacaSapo Limp Gawd

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    FYI to insiders. You cannot do a fresh install and activate.
    Best next thing is to do a reset and image that, then keep it in case you need to wipe.
    Pretty lame.

    Some people, myself included, are having issues with doing a Reset, leading to INACCESSIBLE BOOT DEVICE.
    Rebuilding the BCD does not solve the issue, for me, even though everything looks ok.
     
  31. canon.tk

    canon.tk Limp Gawd

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    I hate car analogies and this is the worst one I've seen. Can you take those tires and build another car with them? No. Can you take that motherboard and CPU and easily build another computer, Yes!

    Now if they can take the ID based on the new motherboard/CPU and bind it to the activation license overwriting the old ID, then that would work.

    Kinda like replacing a cable modem and having the ISP rebind to the new MAC.
     
  32. nightanole

    nightanole [H]ard|Gawd

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    Eh i had a mobo die (cuz they have these things called capacitors and hot spots). swapped in a $50 mobo, reused EVERYTHING. still triggered a phone call to reactivate 8.1. Still the robot was nice, "how many pcs is this copy running on fleshy bot?" "one", "Ok here is your 512 digit code to reactivate that i will only repeat once".

    I hope win10 is just as simple, or better yet i do not have to input anything, and it just sends "the signal" and the pc is re genuined.
     
  33. Topweasel

    Topweasel [H]ard|Gawd

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    I have called in 3 times on Windows 8, 50+ on windows 7, near infinitely on Windows XP. In all those situations, the only times I ran into issues were with XP were with using the wrong media for the code. It would install but not activate and when I called in there would be issues. Then I got the right media corrected. I don't know why I here of people that have had to talk to a human, if you are doing stuff correctly and not being stupid (even if you are using a multi-computer license always answer 1 when the computer asks how many are installed at this time).

    I even installed Windows 7 shortly after it came out on a brand new build stupidly activated it right away and then after some issues (RAM bios configuration) I as part of my troubleshooting reinstalled Windows. Online activation didn't work the second time and I had to call in. This would have been the second activation in 3-4 hour period. No human, just the computer, and it eventually shot out my code. People having issues with the call in really only have themselves to blame.

    My guess is with the new MS Store license activation system its probably easier to just tell users during this first year to start from scratch than to clear out the old hash information and start over again. Once the system calms down, the free updates expire, and they get the bugs out of the system, I am sure we will see a clear way to reactivate our hardware.

    That said #1 piece of hardware to be considered the device is "Motherboard" changing that out (moving it to another system) would be considered a new computer. So unless you have a Retail Full version of the OS, upgrading or replacing the Mobo would be a new computer and the license isn't transferable. They do make exceptions for warranty or repair work but technically people have been breaking ToS when trying to reactivate on new mobo. OEM, Volume, Upgrade, none of those are transferable.
     
  34. Schtask

    Schtask Limp Gawd

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    For better understanding. If you had a retail copy of Windows 7 or 8 (like a student copy) and you install Windows 10, then upgrade your hardware.... You don't have to buy a new retail copy of Windows 10 because you can just reinstall 7 or 8, then install 10 over them?

    If so...that's not too bad.
     
  35. RazorWind

    RazorWind 2[H]4U

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    They seemed to be willing to do this in the past, if you didn't abuse it.

    I've used my XP, 7 and 8 keys on multiple iterations of my various PCs without the need to buy new ones every time. If the system doesn't match what they're expecting, you just have to call them and tell you replaced your motherboard, and they clear out the old activation info for you. I guess it's kind of a hassle, but I've never had them refuse to activate it.

    I see no reason they wouldn't do this under the new policy - it just sounds like they're saving a step and looking up your key automatically, vs. having to type it in.
     
  36. WaltC

    WaltC [H]ard|Gawd

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    Breakdown is as follows as I understand it (too bad for the conspiracy buffs among us...;))

    Retail License: (upgraded from a retail license of Win8.1/7) follows the person, not the hardware. If you swap out a motherboard, for instance, you may have to phone activate--but you will get activated. (See: System, product ID # that tells Microsoft whether your have a retail license or an OEM license)

    OEM license: Follows the motherboard. Change motherboard & you *have* to buy a new license. Same old-same old. OEM has always been like this.

    Bottom line: Everything is the same as it has always been--except for the key--which Microsoft has taken out of the activation equation.
     
  37. spugm1r3

    spugm1r3 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Answers here.

    For those that don't like clicking links:

    NOTE: Emphasis in italics is my doing.

    Essentially, you will either have to go the long route of reinstalling the original OS you upgraded from, then upgrading to 10, or buy a new copy of 10.

    Not terrible if you are repurposing the old mobo, since the Windows copy should still be tied to it, but kind of a pain if you are simply updating to a new system.
     
  38. mw8t

    mw8t Limp Gawd

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    Yeah but once you have upgraded does your product key for the previous OS still work when you try to reinstall the old OS?
     
  39. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Before it was free, it was 20 bucks...essentially free. Most mac users don't hold onto those machines forever. Most of my friends with macs upgrade every 3 years (give or take a year). $60 isn't going to kill apple
     
  40. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Although I think you're probably right, it depends. If this is a glitch that will get fixed, then I agree. OTOH, if it's how it will always work, then that means if a year from today you buy a new MB, you'll have to buy an upgrade license.

    I'm giving MS the benefit of the doubt, but Mope's story makes me think it's worth making noise about, because you've only got a year for them to fix it. After that, we're fucked.