Microsoft hates frequent formatters

[lesman]

Or, he sounded noticibly sarcastic...

Or he was trying to be ....LOL, I seriously doubt that happened...but then again...who knows?

 

[TrechMaggotface]

Beta testing, configuration changes, Operating System changes, etc.

Have had tons of beta software, test software, installs, uninstalls, errors, parrallel installs, fixes rollbacks and have not formatted my machine in over 5 years. Same XP Pro installation since Feb 2001. And, yes it still works perfectly. FUD

 

[USMC2Hard4U]

I have a general question?

Is it ok to use and install an "illegal" version of XP if you wanted to on your machine if you Own a full copy of XP pro? just dont use it?

Just a general - hypothetical "what if" question

 

[n64man120]

i'd think using a cd key you didnt purchase would make it wrong..

 

[Phoenix86]

I have a general question?

Is it ok to use and install an "illegal" version of XP if you wanted to on your machine if you Own a full copy of XP pro? just dont use it?

Just a general - hypothetical "what if" question

Why you would want to do that is beyond me, but yes. The CD Key is not the legal part, the paper license is. The illegal key could cause other issues, technically including an audit, but more likely the inability to run patches.

 

[USMC2Hard4U]

I was just curious.

I use my OEM copy I got thru Newegg w/ purchase of hardware. It was just a general question. I know too many people who use Unattended installs and what not from various sources that includes updates and drives and programs etc... but its not their version. They just own one of the first copies that came out.

 

[Phoenix86]

I was just curious.

I use my OEM copy I got thru Newegg w/ purchase of hardware. It was just a general question. I know too many people who use Unattended installs and what not from various sources that includes updates and drives and programs etc... but its not their version. They just own one of the first copies that came out.

Well, like I said it's the paper license, but that still has to match the install type (OEM/Retail/VLK). IE if you own OEM, and install retail, you're illegal. If you own Retail and intstall Retail (illegal key) you're OK.

 

[BobSutan]

why dont you guys pick up a copy of Acronis True Image and you won't have to do this all the time.

Just a word of advice.

Nate

http://www.acronis.com/

Or Norton Ghost. Install the OS once and make an image of it. Not only is it faster, about 5 minutes to "install" your operating system, you don't have to play with activation ever again.

I have a general question?

Is it ok to use and install an "illegal" version of XP if you wanted to on your machine if you Own a full copy of XP pro? just dont use it?

Just a general - hypothetical "what if" question

Depends on how "hypothetica" you wan to get. By the letter of the law, software licenses are unenforcable in many states, any don't hold one bit of weight in federal court so long as you have the reciept to show you've purchased your goods.

If you bought it you own it, regardless of the key you use. However, MS has checks in place that will screw with you if you don't follow their rules, which again is not allowed in copyright law. But until someone goes to bat and a legal injunction is place on Microsoft they are free to do as they wish. </Hypothetical theory>

As always, do what you need to do for the CYA (i.e. buy legitamate products and keep the receipt).

 

[feigned]

<3 corporate edition from work.

Indeed.

 

[MalfurionStormrage]

Have had tons of beta software, test software, installs, uninstalls, errors, parrallel installs, fixes rollbacks and have not formatted my machine in over 5 years. Same XP Pro installation since Feb 2001. And, yes it still works perfectly. FUD

Yes, it works. But that's not why you reformat your drive.

When you are creating gold masters for thousands of replicated discs, you need to ensure that everything the person is going to need is on that disc. The ONLY SURE WAY OF DOING THAT IS INSTALLING ON A PRISTINE OS.

It's not FUD. It's called doing your fucking job.

 

[Phoenix86]

Yes, it works. But that's not why you reformat your drive.

When you are creating gold masters for thousands of replicated discs, you need to ensure that everything the person is going to need is on that disc. The ONLY SURE WAY OF DOING THAT IS INSTALLING ON A PRISTINE OS.

It's not FUD. It's called doing your fucking job.

WTF are you talking about? Gold masters, thousands of replicated disks? This don't make no sense at all.

 

[MalfurionStormrage]

Replicated discs = discs stamped at a replicating facility

Gold Master = Slightly incorrect term, but it generally refers to CD-ROM master discs that are sent to a replicating facility. Have you ever heard the expression 'software going gold'?

The real term comes from the fact that the actual master that creates the glass impressions that then stamp CD-ROMs is made out of gold. Each glass impression is good for about 5000 stamps.

Confused yet?

 

[shade91]

Every time I have to call the activation line I use the same excuse over and over again. Each time the tech on the line says "Oh ok no problem". The excuse? "My harddrive crashed. I had to go buy another one and reinstall Windows."

 

[Phoenix86]

Replicated discs = discs stamped at a replicating facility

Gold Master = Slightly incorrect term, but it generally refers to CD-ROM master discs that are sent to a replicating facility. Have you ever heard the expression 'software going gold'?

The real term comes from the fact that the actual master that creates the glass impressions that then stamp CD-ROMs is made out of gold. Each glass impression is good for about 5000 stamps.

Confused yet?

Yeah, I know all that, but WTF does it have to do with reformatting a *single* PC.

 

[MalfurionStormrage]

Yeah, I know all that, but WTF does it have to do with reformatting a *single* PC.

Re-install the OS (reformat the drive) to test your software on it, you know, dependency checking? It's SOP in a software shop...

 

[HTPC Rookie]

Re-install the OS (reformat the drive) to test your software on it, you know, dependency checking? It's SOP in a software shop...

I've been trying to follow what you're saying too...but now I gotta say I'm confused also.

Synopsis?

 

[The_Mage18]

Technically, Momand Pop shops are supposed to pre-install Windows on their systems.

It is essentially running setup on the PC but with a few major differences.

-The install files are located in a drive that's exported in Active Directory
-All setup options are pre-configured, just lik an answer file
-Support info (in the System control panel, etc) is entered
-Any preconfigured apps are installed
-If selected, Windows is preactivated

The PC is started from a preinstall CD that basically contains a slimed down Windows os, the same as what you have with Bart's PE Builder. Everything is done via network and requires little to no intervention once it's started. Larger companies like Dell use a pre-created image that is pushed down via network but it is initially created in much the same process.

The downside to the Ghost method is great, if your hardware never changes. If you upgrade your hardware, your image won't be current and would have to be redone. It's also not that practical for multi-system deployement unless you use GhostWalker for network deployment and SSID regeneration.

 

[lesman]

Have had tons of beta software, test software, installs, uninstalls, errors, parrallel installs, fixes rollbacks and have not formatted my machine in over 5 years. Same XP Pro installation since Feb 2001. And, yes it still works perfectly. FUD

It's still good to reformat though. The registry can get filled up with a bunch of left over garbage and could cause conflicts...even simple ones that you don't even really know are there. I can understand that if you know how to clean out your registry, and basically know how to keep top-tier maintenence going on with your OS, then you don't reformat-but otherwise-it's real safe to reformat. You may not notice the gradual slowdown in your OS...little things like the right click menu on the desktop, or the more probgrams list, or other things. But the time it takes to open windows, menus, etc WILL gradually increase with time. I just recently reformatted (I wanted a clean slate) everything was fine with the comp, just wanted it to be like new. After I did....I actually noticed a few little differences. It's not the biggest difference in the world, but it's just nice to know that the OS is clean and fresh.

 

[ashmedai]

The illegal key could cause other issues, technically including an audit, but more likely the inability to run patches.

Hypothetically, it wouldn't cause any problems currently, at least not with patches and such. I wouldn't recommend doing it at the office...at home though, do whatever is most conveniant I guess.

If you don't want to do that, shade91's line is a pretty effective one...we deal with end users all the time, why not get some stealth outta them?

 

[feigned]

It's still good to reformat though. The registry can get filled up with a bunch of left over garbage and could cause conflicts...even simple ones that you don't even really know are there. I can understand that if you know how to clean out your registry, and basically know how to keep top-tier maintenence going on with your OS, then you don't reformat-but otherwise-it's real safe to reformat. You may not notice the gradual slowdown in your OS...little things like the right click menu on the desktop, or the more probgrams list, or other things. But the time it takes to open windows, menus, etc WILL gradually increase with time. I just recently reformatted (I wanted a clean slate) everything was fine with the comp, just wanted it to be like new. After I did....I actually noticed a few little differences. It's not the biggest difference in the world, but it's just nice to know that the OS is clean and fresh.

Ah, the seat of the pants argument. I like using that one for some things.

But honestly...if you install XP on a machine and use it normally for a few months without changing any hardware or the like, keeping tabs on extraneous files, virus scanning...more or less keeping the system as optimal as the day it was installed, why is there a difference? I highly doubt it's quantifiable. It's all placebo, like it or not.

 

[GreNME]

VMWare + snapshot == solution

"teh win" ++

 

[SquireSCA]

See, this activation crap, DRM, them wanting you to purchase a seperate copy for each PC you own, and now that they are going to validate codes in order to use Windows Update, is what drove me to Linux...

 

[ashmedai]

And the wide support base and software compatibility is what made me stick with Windows...

Linux is cool and all, I just don't have any use for it.

 

[shadowbreaker513]

Everytime I see these thread I wonder WTF you people are doing that requires such frequent formatting...

First time - Bittorrent problem
Second time - Was using IE
Third time - Was using IE
Fourth time - Was bored
Fifth time - Was using IE
Sixth time - Wanted to try seperate partitions
Seventh time - Didn't like the partitions
Eigth time - Corrupted after video card died
Ninth time - nVidia drivers problem/corrupted ntfs.sys by raising fsb too much.

 

[lesman]

Ah, the seat of the pants argument. I like using that one for some things.

But honestly...if you install XP on a machine and use it normally for a few months without changing any hardware or the like, keeping tabs on extraneous files, virus scanning...more or less keeping the system as optimal as the day it was installed, why is there a difference? I highly doubt it's quantifiable. It's all placebo, like it or not.

Oh yeah, a few months, sure, no problem. I'm talking at least once a year, though. Things you install/uninstall will eat up our registries wether we like it or not and cause various conficts-affecting you directly or not. If all you do is buy the comp, and use MS word on it every once in a while, then sure, nothing will happen to it.

 

[GreNME]

Oh yeah, a few months, sure, no problem. I'm talking at least once a year, though. Things you install/uninstall will eat up our registries wether we like it or not and cause various conficts-affecting you directly or not. If all you do is buy the comp, and use MS word on it every once in a while, then sure, nothing will happen to it.

Nope. 2.5 years, regular A/V updates, and periodic registry checks for unnecessary entries keeps things squeaky clean. Just takes a little care and work, just like with any operating system.

 

[lesman]

Well, yeah, but I'd say that overall most computer users don't do that or don't know how to do that.

 

[incomudro]

Yeah this has happened to me so i just call the number and they work it out everytime......

 

[GreNME]

Well, yeah, but I'd say that overall most computer users don't do that or don't know how to do that.

Hence the abundance of registry "doctors," antivirus programs, antispyware programs, temp file removers, and so on. Welcome to the world of capitalistic choice.

 

[MalfurionStormrage]

Hence the abundance of registry "doctors," antivirus programs, antispyware programs, temp file removers, and so on. Welcome to the world of capitalistic choice.

And hence the prevalence of reformatting the drive.

I've been trying to follow what you're saying too...but now I gotta say I'm confused also.

Synopsis?

<sigh> I thought this was obvious.

When you are attempting to distribute software/media to people for which you don't know what the target system has (beyond a supported OS), you try to pretend that you are a computer n00b with no prerequisites installed (i.e. anything above and beyond a pristine OS install). Let's say, for instance, that you have a buncha media files (encoded, say, with Windows Media Encoder 9 for Windows Media Player 9) that you want your end user to play on their computer. Well, Windows 2000 didn't come with WMP 9. For that matter, neither did WXP when it first came out. It would be a vast dereliction of duty on my part to master a disc that was then unable to be played on an end user's system because I did not adequately test the media on a system that most closely resembles a n00b's unpatched system.

THIS is why you ALWAYS test your media on a pristine OS. Even if all you want to do is write a readme that describes the system requirements instead of shipping with the prerequisite software.

Do I need to go over this again, or is this sufficiently clear? I don't mean this to turn into a lecture of How Things Should Be(TM) in a software testing facility, but I need to call bullshit on someone calling FUD on a fundumental operating rule when mastering discs.

I routinely blow away a system every week. So, I don't activate. According to Microsoft, this is reformatting too much. According to me, I am doing my job.

 

[stevewm]

I don't see why you all have to re-install so much!!!

My XP Pro install is OVER 2 years old!

PSInfo: "Install date: 3/17/2003, 12:10:28 AM"


I am definately a power user. I shuffle hardware in and out weekly, except for the motherboard of course. Install and uninstall things frequently. Same goes for Video and sound drivers.

From what I can see most problems seem to come from people trying to "tweak" by disabling services and changing registry entires. Most of these so called so called tweaks do nothing but cause problems down the road. An example of one stupid tweak I've is disabling Prefetch. Why people think disabling one thing that is directly responisble XP booting faster is a good thing is beyond me. Prefetch also greatly helps application launch speed one it collects enough information on usage patterns.

As far as registry cleaning goes, registry bloat is NOT a big as problem as people make it out to be. The stuff most programs store in the registry take a few KB at most. And most unstallers will remove the bulk of it. Usually only a empty key in HKEY\Software\ is left behind. And that takes at most a few bytes! Any files that are left behind are usually in Program Files and/or Common Files and can be safely deleted. Most installers these days are good about removing files they placed in the Windows directory.... As long as they where put there by the installer.

But anyways I do run CrapCleaner. It searches for references to files that don't exist and to old ClassIDs that are no longer registered to a application.

Another thing is fragmentation. Most, if not all fragmentation comes from temporary files. This includes you temp directory and any browser caches. Clear these out and usually all of your fragmentation will disappear! People defrag too much. I've only had to do it 2 in 2 years. After 8 months my C: drive "Analysis Report
63.81 GB Total, 32.65 GB (51%) Free, 3% Fragmented (7% file fragmentation)"

After deleting temp files: "Analysis Report
63.81 GB Total, 32.86 GB (51%) Free, 1% Fragmented (3% file fragmentation)"

 

[GreNME]

And hence the prevalence of reformatting the drive.

Then cope. Really, it's not that complicated, and even with drivers and registry build-up and spyware and temp files, a few months is still unrealistic for reinstalls, even when normal hardware updating takes place.

Do what you want with the OS, since you paid for the license. However, complaining about the simple and quick activation in Windows is simply unrealistic and reminiscent of the more incorrect and paranoid speculation back in 2000/early 2001 (I remember wondering if it was gonna be worth it, too). I'd be more annoyed in the less-practical activation schemes of other software, were I one to gripe about it (which I am when it becomes necessary).

 

[ashmedai]

Another thing is fragmentation. Most, if not all fragmentation comes from temporary files. This includes you temp directory and any browser caches. Clear these out and usually all of your fragmentation will disappear! People defrag too much. I've only had to do it 2 in 2 years. After 8 months my C: drive "Analysis Report
63.81 GB Total, 32.65 GB (51%) Free, 3% Fragmented (7% file fragmentation)"

After deleting temp files: "Analysis Report
63.81 GB Total, 32.86 GB (51%) Free, 1% Fragmented (3% file fragmentation)"

Temp directory/browser cache, being full of small files that are frequently added/removed, would obviously be highly fragmented...wanna see the stats for my swap partition?

And since XP defragments in the background normally...I'm not impressed...

 

[SquireSCA]

And the wide support base and software compatibility is what made me stick with Windows...

Linux is cool and all, I just don't have any use for it.

Well, to be fair, the software compatability is due to the fact that you are looking at Windows software. And believe me, I felt the way you do, and still do in some areas...

But when you really take a look at what is out there, for just about anything in Windows, there is a program available in Linux, the difference being that with Linux, you do not have to steal it(P2P) or shell out tons of money.

I mean, if you can think it up, some code-monkey has probably already written an app in Linux for it.

Gaming is where Linux needs to work on if they want to attract more home users...

But, I do play several games under Linux, with uber-frame rates, FSAA and all the same eye-candy and performance that I did under WinXP Pro:

America's Army
RTCW
Enemy Territory
Doom3
MOHAA
MOHAA: Allied Assault
Soldier of Fortune 2
Painkiller
UT2003
UT2004

HL2 also runs fine under Linux.

While far from complete int he gaming arena, it has come a long way...

And it is more secure, it is more robust, it looks better than Windows and it is free. There is no DRM. There are shitloads of free apps out there.

OpenOffice.org 2.0 rocks. GIMP 2.2.2 is on par with Photoshop in most regards, which is more than fine for 99% of the people who use it.

XMMS and Amarok are great, as good as WinAmp...

I used to loath Linux and Linux fans, but I have to give it props for coming so far that I was able to switch over...

 

[ccotenj]

uhh... malfurion?

testing your software on a "pristine os" does zippo in terms of q/a in the real world... since darn few users are running "pristine os's"....

"vast dereliction of your duty"... heh... my goodness, aren't we quite the pompous one?

assuming that because it runs on a perfect copy of an os that it's good for user comsumption is why we've got so much buggy software out there...

the "regular users" out there that some like to denigrate so much run their os's for YEARS without reformatting... testing on a pristine os does ZERO for them...

but hey, i've only been a software developer for 22 years...

 

[MalfurionStormrage]

Then cope. Really, it's not that complicated, and even with drivers and registry build-up and spyware and temp files, a few months is still unrealistic for reinstalls, even when normal hardware updating takes place.

I am coping with it. It's why I don't activate, and it's why I reformat. Plus, you actually need to read why I do it.

Do what you want with the OS, since you paid for the license. However, complaining about the simple and quick activation in Windows is simply unrealistic and reminiscent of the more incorrect and paranoid speculation back in 2000/early 2001 (I remember wondering if it was gonna be worth it, too). I'd be more annoyed in the less-practical activation schemes of other software, were I one to gripe about it (which I am when it becomes necessary).

I'm not complaining, but you are sure doing a lot of it yourself. You don't see why people want to reformat their drives, ergo, they have no reason to reformat. Yeah, that's the ticket!

 

[MalfurionStormrage]

uhh... malfurion?

testing your software on a "pristine os" does zippo in terms of q/a in the real world... since darn few users are running "pristine os's"....

If your software doesn't perform like it should on a pristine OS, then why should it perform any better on one that a user has? Testing on a pristine OS means that it will work on what you say it will.

but hey, i've only been a software developer for 22 years...

Yeah, I'd fire you on day two with an attitude like yours.

assuming that because it runs on a perfect copy of an os that it's good for user comsumption is why we've got so much buggy software out there...

Not what I said, but you are welcome to believe I did in your alternate reality.

the "regular users" out there that some like to denigrate so much run their os's for YEARS without reformatting... testing on a pristine os does ZERO for them...

My software not working on your fucked up system isn't exactly my fault now, is it? I don't only test on a pristine OS, but, hey, you test on a pristine system to ensure that it will work on an OS that you claim it will. If it won't work on the pristine OS, you better have a damn good readme explaining what the person must have to get that software to run, unless you'd like to include everything on your disc to make sure it does work. I don't sign off on million disc duplications because I think the software might work with the OS that I claim it works on.

But, hey, you've managed to produce software for 22 years, so what do I know (other than that I have never had a recall on any of my discs because of following procedures)...

 

[TrechMaggotface]

It's still good to reformat though.

Why?

No offense to anyone in this forum, but I know how to either A) keep problems from happening on my machine or B) fix it when a problem occurs. I never reformat and reinstall. I dont have to maintain backups except for the case of disaster recovery. I still have every single file that Ive put on my machine for 5 solid years that I wanted to keep.

 

[brom42]

Everytime I see these thread I wonder WTF you people are doing that requires such frequent formatting...

QFT


I only reinstall windows when I do motherboard upgrades. I am still running on an install from 9/03.

Ghost = your friend. If you are testing software, you should be ghosting your machine and/or running sysprep if you're testing hardware.

 

[SkullE]

We reformat 2 or 3 times a year because we can. And it feels good to do it as well.

BTW windows has a 128 day reset activation window. if you try to activate your copy only once every 128 days you do not need to call the 800 number. It should do it online automaticaly. (or is it 256 days?)