Microsoft Expects the “Majority of Customers” to Use Windows 10’s S Mode

[Brian_B]

Meh.

The OS has become less and less relevent as ubiquitous access to the internet becomes more robust and commonplace.

Probably half the things I do now are through a browser, or slim apps that are nothing more than a lightly reskinned single purpose browser.

Does the “cloud” approach work
for everything? No, not at all. But it works well enough for most things, and those few apps that need dedicated hardware level, well, sandboxed virtualization is taking over there. That is more or less the approach that UWP is tiring to take, and it’s hardly alone.

The host OS is almost arbitrary and irrelevant today. Almost.

 

[Lakados]

You think those people are paid $35 an hour???

Seriously, though: forced obsolescence at gunpoint is NOT a good thing.

I know what they are being paid, our lower end is 22, our upper end is 65, it depends on if they are Union or Exempt and their department. Nobody at Microsoft has forced us to retire anything they have however provided us with cost benefits with retiring old hardware, they have arranged Recycling pickup introduced us to people who will buy old but still usable hardware provided onsite disk shredding they send out on site trainers at no additional costs. They provided management and accounting with solid reasons to want to get rid of old hardware and if we wanted to we could still go about our business with the exact same level of functionality that we would have had before nothing was taken away but they were able to show the right people the cost benefits for upgrading and they signed off on it and I implemented it. Those implementations saved me an average of 2 hours a day in mundane crap that I no longer have to deal with and it decreased out the number of hours I was paying out to contractors as a result because now I have the time to tackle them myself. Hence my initial comment of how Windows 10 has saved me a lot of time and headaches.

 

[Big_Rig_Stig]

Meh.

The OS has become less and less relevent as ubiquitous access to the internet becomes more robust and commonplace.

Probably half the things I do now are through a browser, or slim apps that are nothing more than a lightly reskinned single purpose browser.

Does the “cloud” approach work
for everything? No, not at all. But it works well enough for most things, and those few apps that need dedicated hardware level, well, sandboxed virtualization is taking over there. That is more or less the approach that UWP is tiring to take, and it’s hardly alone.

The host OS is almost arbitrary and irrelevant today. Almost.

Then why are you here? You're obviously not a gamer, nor a computer power user or even a user of a workstation.

 

[Big_Rig_Stig]

I know what they are being paid, our lower end is 22, our upper end is 65, it depends on if they are Union or Exempt and their department. Nobody at Microsoft has forced us to retire anything they have however provided us with cost benefits with retiring old hardware, they have arranged Recycling pickup introduced us to people who will buy old but still usable hardware provided onsite disk shredding they send out on site trainers at no additional costs. They provided management and accounting with solid reasons to want to get rid of old hardware and if we wanted to we could still go about our business with the exact same level of functionality that we would have had before nothing was taken away but they were able to show the right people the cost benefits for upgrading and they signed off on it and I implemented it. Those implementations saved me an average of 2 hours a day in mundane crap that I no longer have to deal with and it decreased out the number of hours I was paying out to contractors as a result because now I have the time to tackle them myself. Hence my initial comment of how Windows 10 has saved me a lot of time and headaches.

So... you work for Microsoft... That would explain alot. And your pay scales.

Now, back to the rest of America and home computer users: forcing obsolescence is a bad thing, m'kay?

 

[Lakados]

So... you work for Microsoft... That would explain alot. And your pay scales.

Now, back to the rest of America and home computer users: forcing obsolescence is a bad thing, m'kay?

No I work in Canada for the public sector where we have decent pay, benefits, and healthcare. And you have yet to tell me how Microsoft is forcing obsolesce upon your computers.

 

[M76]

The interface issues being non consequential, it has better granular management controls than 7 or XP, it has a better update process runs better on old hardware, roaming profiles works better, improvements to the login allow you to connect to wireless before trying to login for AD authentication, the improved font scaling along with better implementation of Night Light has cut down on WCB complaints about eye strain. Infected profiles have decreased to pretty much 0 since the deployment as well and there are a couple of others I am sure as well that I am just not remembering at the moment.
I would have to ask accounting but I am pretty sure the decrease in WCB claims and the time saved in not having to clean all the XP/Win7 machines that would come in probably paid for the deployment costs.

I just mentioned how they removed a very useful feature from the update process. So I have to disagree on it being better at all. How is it better? Font scaling didn't seem better to me at all. The opposite actually. I used to use scaling in 7 on my 4k monitor. When I tried it on 10 I could never get it to look acceptable to my eyes. The rest you mentioned might work better in a large remote managed environment. But I don't care about those features. My issue with 10 is the desktop usability and the loss of control over my own computer.

 

[c3k]

I miss Clippy.

 

[trparky]

the loss of control over my own computer.

Blame stupid users, they're the reason why computers are going that way.

 

[heatlesssun]

And even still, as of TODAY there are literally thousands of games on STEAM that are native to Linux.

There are currently 4305 games on Steam listing Linux support. 6468 listing macOS support. And 20594, all of Steam's games, that have Windows support. Game support on Linux 5 years after Steam started to officially support Linux is still very spotty especially in the AAA title department. Yes, one game on Linux. On can game with Windows 10 S mode enabled. But the problem with both relative to gaming is lack of content.

 

[Lakados]

I just mentioned how they removed a very useful feature from the update process. So I have to disagree on it being better at all. How is it better? Font scaling didn't seem better to me at all. The opposite actually. I used to use scaling in 7 on my 4k monitor. When I tried it on 10 I could never get it to look acceptable to my eyes. The rest you mentioned might work better in a large remote managed environment. But I don't care about those features. My issue with 10 is the desktop usability and the loss of control over my own computer.

Yeah I could not use Home edition, that has too much hidden away and automated.

In regards to the update process it works much nicer with WSUS and it is easier to automate the updates so they are happening during down time. No more complaints of how it just started updating and how their work was lost when then went for coffee.

Also the network strain during mass updates seems to be shortened or less severe, in either event network usage has gone down during the process and I no longer get complaints of the network being slow on Wednesday’s and Thursday’s when the updates get rolled out.

 

[jardows]

I'll be willing to give S mode a try. I mean, so much we think is horrible, and won't even try it. Who knows, it may not be as bad as you think?

It's a common source of humor. We sit in the same room, my Apple device works flawlessly and his Surface Book fails. He would be laughing harder if he didn't make the mistake of buying it with his own money.

I'm working at a University IT help desk, and the situation is quite the opposite. The Microsoft devices work much better than the Macbooks. The Dells and HPs work even better. We are all Windows 10 except for the Macs.

 

[B00nie]

I'll be willing to give S mode a try. I mean, so much we think is horrible, and won't even try it. Who knows, it may not be as bad as you think?


I'm working at a University IT help desk, and the situation is quite the opposite. The Microsoft devices work much better than the Macbooks. The Dells and HPs work even better. We are all Windows 10 except for the Macs.

Your systems may be horribly badly made (based on Microsoft browsers and .Net) so I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Lakados]

Your systems may be horribly badly made (based on Microsoft browsers and .Net) so I wouldn't be surprised.

I can say that in a controlled environment S mode takes nothing away, for any user that could get away with doing all their computing needs on an iPad (you all know who they are) S mode takes nothing away.
And what do you have against .Net and yeah sure now it's easy to mock the MS browsers but...... yeah OK they are mostly indefensible but what do you have against .Net?

 

[DPI]

And yes, I know this but it's also legacy garbage that's hanging around all of our necks. It's bloated garbage that's causing all of our systems to run far slower than they should.

That really more describes the entire, post-7 era of Metro/UWP touch and store app suck. There were decent kernel improvements beginning with Windows 8, though they haven't really changed much in WIndows 10 (aka 8.2 - some of the earliest Windows 10 preview builds actually had Windows 8.2 versioning stamped in the DLL's and EXE's), but none of the touch-oriented, windows 10 Store cellphone apps have made desktop workflows any better.

Unfortunately, the "legacy garbage" is the only reason anyone cares about Windows, so when Win32 is dead then Windows itself will be.

 

[trparky]

so when Win32 is dead then Windows itself will be.

No, it will just evolve and be better for it. Perhaps when Win32 is dead and all apps are UWP apps and you need to get them from the Microsoft Store perhaps Windows won't be the malware-infested shit storm that it is today.

 

[M76]

No, it will just evolve and be better for it. Perhaps when Win32 is dead and all apps are UWP apps and you need to get them from the Microsoft Store perhaps Windows won't be the malware-infested shit storm that it is today.

Yeah, why can't you just enjoy yourself in this little sandbox, look we're giving you all these flashy toys to play with too! Never mind your old toys, those are bad for you, you must be cleansed from their bad influence! Don't even trip dog, we got your back!

 

[defaultluser]

You can't even download 3rd-party browsers from the Windows Store. How do you expect a trendy startup company to adopt this shit when you can't even exercise this basic right?

Same goes for any small-market software that's critical for business use at *insert your company name here* So bigger companies are going to toss this sack-of-shit by the roadside.

And gamers (probably around 20% of total users) will never relent because the Windows-Store-only means COMPUTER BROKEN for them.

Why is Microsoft trying this again? It failed back when they called it Windows RT, and it's going to fail again. If people want a closed-platform THAT'S ACTUALLY SUCCESSFUL, they can just go Mac.

 

[nutzo]

My dear departed wife was 50-something when she got her first iPad and never looked back. She did *all* our bills, banking, etc on that thing, plus her book collection/business, and even did a fair amount of reading (novels mostly) on it, especially before she got the Kindle. And even got e-titles from the local library.

iPads are nearly bulletproof from a user standpoint, and protecting one just takes one of those padded kiddie cases with a screen protector. Plus, for size only, plenty of Android versions out there that are 14"+.

Big difference between 50 and 85.
In his case, his eye sight is getting so bad we might have to upgrade him to an even larger display.

 

[trparky]

Why? I can't believe that you have to ask that question. But since you did, I guess I'll tell you. It's because Windows, as an ecosystem, is a God damned security nightmare!!! Ransomware this, malware that. People are sick and tired of it.

 

[heatlesssun]

Why is Microsoft trying this again? It failed back when they called it Windows RT, and it's going to fail again. If people want a closed-platform THAT'S ACTUALLY SUCCESSFUL, they can just go Mac.

If you buy a device with S mode enabled and need Win32 apps switch the mode for free. A HUGE difference from Windows RT.

 

[heatlesssun]

Why? I can't believe that you have to ask that question. But since you did, I guess I'll tell you. It's because Windows, as an ecosystem, is a God damned security nightmare!!! Ransomware this, malware that. People are sick and tired of it.

For a lot of folks with basic needs, the Edge browser and the apps in the Store will suffice for them and it dramatically reduces the risk of local malware. This is a good OPTION for some Windows users.

 

[B00nie]

I can say that in a controlled environment S mode takes nothing away, for any user that could get away with doing all their computing needs on an iPad (you all know who they are) S mode takes nothing away.
And what do you have against .Net and yeah sure now it's easy to mock the MS browsers but...... yeah OK they are mostly indefensible but what do you have against .Net?

.Net is the mother of all bloat. Not to mention it's not cross platform which makes it inherently bad. The S mode takes everything away, users can't use any applications without getting them from the MS store (and to get to MS store, developers have to pay a huge royalty to Microsoft). That shit won't walk.

 

[cybrnook]

Windows S mode, aka the fruition of Windows as a Service. "All your apps are belong to us". Complete walled garden at that point, no thank you.

 

[heatlesssun]

.Net is the mother of all bloat. Not to mention it's not cross platform which makes it inherently bad.

.NET Core is cross platform.

 

[Lakados]

.Net is the mother of all bloat. Not to mention it's not cross platform which makes it inherently bad. The S mode takes everything away, users can't use any applications without getting them from the MS store (and to get to MS store, developers have to pay a huge royalty to Microsoft). That shit won't walk.

I don’t particularly consider .Net bloated, I mean yeah in pure performance it’s going to loose to C or Python but if you need it working and soon it’s fine. And last I checked it was cross platform and you can compile the .net stuff for PC, Mac, iOS and Android not many other platforms give you that degree of flexibility.
That’s why Microsoft bought Xaramin and rolled their catalogue into Visual Studio 2017 then released if for:
Windows 32, 64
Debian, Ubuntu, Redhat, Fedora, SUSE
Mac OS 10.9 and above

 

[DPI]

For a lot of folks with basic needs, the Edge browser and the apps in the Store will suffice for them and it dramatically reduces the risk of local malware. This is a good OPTION for some Windows users.

Being artificially restricted to the windows store and edge just seems like it's own form of malware. Like burning your house down just so no one breaks into it. What are you left with - the crappiest browser, and a bunch of cellphone knockoff apps.

And since it rides on top of the same three decades of spaghetti windows code as non-S mode, I have my doubts about it "keeping out the malwarez" or being inherently more secure than UAC. Malware laughed at UAC and ot was easily skirted around.

 

[heatlesssun]

Being artificially restricted to the windows store and edge just seems like it's own form of malware. Like burning your house down just so no one breaks into it. What are you left with - the crappiest browser, and a bunch of cellphone knockoff apps.

And since it rides on top of the same three decades of spaghetti windows code as non-S mode, I have my doubts about it "keeping out the malwarez" or being inherently more secure than UAC. Malware laughed at UAC and ot was easily skirted around.

With S mode is an option it's easy enough to "un-burn down" the house. Running arbitrary code from untrusted and unvetted sources is a huge attack vector for Windows. S mode by design makes this much more difficult. S mode as an option that makes sense for some people and scenarios but if doesn't work out then don't use it. Plenty of Windows bashers over the years have said that all many people need are the basics like a web browser, email, an office suite and streaming services. If these people are correct and I think they are then S mode will work well for some at least.

 

[Big_Rig_Stig]

No I work in Canada for the public sector where we have decent pay, benefits, and healthcare. And you have yet to tell me how Microsoft is forcing obsolesce upon your computers.

Windows 3.1
Windows 95
Windows 98
Windows XP
Windows Vista
Windows 7
Windows 8
Windows 10

All of them require more computing horsepower, and require people to upgrade their computers, when for most of the average consumers, just one decent machine that doens't glob up with crap like Windows-based machines do can last over a decade (see Apple products). Plus, every time Intel wants to push new hardware, Microsoft happens to be in lockstep with their plans, as well.

 

[Big_Rig_Stig]

Meh.

The OS has become less and less relevent as ubiquitous access to the internet becomes more robust and commonplace.

Probably half the things I do now are through a browser, or slim apps that are nothing more than a lightly reskinned single purpose browser.

Does the “cloud” approach work
for everything? No, not at all. But it works well enough for most things, and those few apps that need dedicated hardware level, well, sandboxed virtualization is taking over there. That is more or less the approach that UWP is tiring to take, and it’s hardly alone.

The host OS is almost arbitrary and irrelevant today. Almost.

Except it's that host OS that enables connection to the INternet. Chromebooks proved that, beyond a doubt; and it also proved that people want more thorough control over their data, which is why we have a proliferation of portable disks, thumbdrives, and databooks--not to mention smartphones, tablets, laptops and desktops. People don't trust "the cloud" one bit, and given the hacking that's already happened on that score, I don't blame them. I store very little in the cloud, and plan to keep it that way.

 

[Big_Rig_Stig]

I just mentioned how they removed a very useful feature from the update process. So I have to disagree on it being better at all. How is it better? Font scaling didn't seem better to me at all. The opposite actually. I used to use scaling in 7 on my 4k monitor. When I tried it on 10 I could never get it to look acceptable to my eyes. The rest you mentioned might work better in a large remote managed environment. But I don't care about those features. My issue with 10 is the desktop usability and the loss of control over my own computer.

Simply put: Windows 10 is Microsoft's answer to Apple's iTunes, taken to extremes. Their goal is obvious: to force the users of Windows 10 into a pay-per-play scheme, starting with their store, and eventually ending with your bank account or credit card number being entered before being allowed to use Windows. Initially, they'll do as they are now, charge one "lifetime" fee; but, eventually, they will start charging a yearly fee, then monthly, possibly even a daily or hourly fee to use their software on your hardware. And they *will* hold your data hostage for that fee. THey've been working towards that for decades, and done it so slowly that most people aren't noticing the "creep", and won't realize they're in a boiling pot of water until it's too late.

 

[Big_Rig_Stig]

There are currently 4305 games on Steam listing Linux support. 6468 listing macOS support. And 20594, all of Steam's games, that have Windows support. Game support on Linux 5 years after Steam started to officially support Linux is still very spotty especially in the AAA title department. Yes, one game on Linux. On can game with Windows 10 S mode enabled. But the problem with both relative to gaming is lack of content.

The solution under Linux is to run the Windows games in WINE or somesuch, as was mentioned earlier. Again, as the demand grows *by gamers*, the integration will get better and easier for the average user, until it becomes trivial to enable. Hell, since Apple's OSx is a fork of Linux, anyone using a Mac can do exactly the same--and as that demand grows to enable Windows programs under OSx, the ability to do so will become trivial as well.

 

[Big_Rig_Stig]

No, it will just evolve and be better for it. Perhaps when Win32 is dead and all apps are UWP apps and you need to get them from the Microsoft Store perhaps Windows won't be the malware-infested shit storm that it is today.

Nah, it'll be the ultimate vending machine system with a pay-as-you-go vending scheme. Microsoft will hold everything the can hostage, and extort all the cash they can out of you. They might even employ Vinnie and Jimmy da Fish to come by your house to "collect". And it'll *still* be a malweare-infested shitstorm, because MS will want you to pay for their "anit-malware" solutions that ONLY work if bought from the MS Store.

 

[Big_Rig_Stig]

You can't even download 3rd-party browsers from the Windows Store. How do you expect a trendy startup company to adopt this shit when you can't even exercise this basic right?

Same goes for any small-market software that's critical for business use at *insert your company name here* So bigger companies are going to toss this sack-of-shit by the roadside.

And gamers (probably around 20% of total users) will never relent because the Windows-Store-only means COMPUTER BROKEN for them.

Why is Microsoft trying this again? It failed back when they called it Windows RT, and it's going to fail again. If people want a closed-platform THAT'S ACTUALLY SUCCESSFUL, they can just go Mac.

And even Mac isn't totally closed-platform: only iPhone iOS is. At least with Mac, you can get good software from all sorts of sources.

 

[Big_Rig_Stig]

Big difference between 50 and 85.
In his case, his eye sight is getting so bad we might have to upgrade him to an even larger display.

Y'all might want to look into cataract surgery.

That said: what prompted my wife and I to switch to iPhones when they first came out? I was working for Lowe's, and helping a customer and his dad find something in the store; the customer (70yo) yanked out his iPhone to answer a text from his mother (92), while his dad (96) started texting someone else in the family at the same time. (yes, I probably should've related this story first, but I didn't remember it at the time)

Point: if his eyes are fixable, or he's able to read at normal reading distances, then he *can* use an iPad, if he's willing to try something different. But he does have to be willing.

 

[Big_Rig_Stig]

If you buy a device with S mode enabled and need Win32 apps switch the mode for free. A HUGE difference from Windows RT.

That won't last long... as soon as they figure they have a captive market, they'll charge for it.

 

[Big_Rig_Stig]

For a lot of folks with basic needs, the Edge browser and the apps in the Store will suffice for them and it dramatically reduces the risk of local malware. This is a good OPTION for some Windows users.

Right up to the point where they have to pay MS for access to their data.

 

[Big_Rig_Stig]

Windows S mode, aka the fruition of Windows as a Service. "All your apps are belong to us". Complete walled garden at that point, no thank you.

#ThisShitRightHere

 

[Big_Rig_Stig]

With S mode is an option it's easy enough to "un-burn down" the house. Running arbitrary code from untrusted and unvetted sources is a huge attack vector for Windows. S mode by design makes this much more difficult. S mode as an option that makes sense for some people and scenarios but if doesn't work out then don't use it. Plenty of Windows bashers over the years have said that all many people need are the basics like a web browser, email, an office suite and streaming services. If these people are correct and I think they are then S mode will work well for some at least.

Just admit it: M$ is trying to out-iOS iOS.

 

[nutzo]

Y'all might want to look into cataract surgery.

That said: what prompted my wife and I to switch to iPhones when they first came out? I was working for Lowe's, and helping a customer and his dad find something in the store; the customer (70yo) yanked out his iPhone to answer a text from his mother (92), while his dad (96) started texting someone else in the family at the same time. (yes, I probably should've related this story first, but I didn't remember it at the time)

Point: if his eyes are fixable, or he's able to read at normal reading distances, then he *can* use an iPad, if he's willing to try something different. But he does have to be willing.

Already had surgery years ago, but that's besides the point.
It was difficult enough for him to learn Windows 10 after he accidently upgraded from 7.
Couldn't imagine trying to teach him how to use a tablet with an completely different interface.
Beside, I don't allow/support apple products

 

[Big_Rig_Stig]

Already had surgery years ago, but that's besides the point.
It was difficult enough for him to learn Windows 10 after he accidently upgraded from 7.
Couldn't imagine trying to teach him how to use a tablet with an completely different interface.
Beside, I don't allow/support apple products

Sorry to hear. I hope it works for him.