Microsoft E books to stop working.

[Uvaman2]

https://boingboing.net/2019/06/28/jun-17-2004.html

Oops, so much for your MS ebook collection.
Should be pretty obvious there is no ownership if there's DRM.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Ugh. You'd think they would at least take some sort of steps top make sure customers didn't lose what they bought...

 

[Azrak]

Ugh. You'd think they would at least take some sort of steps top make sure customers didn't lose what they bought...

You never owned it anyway. You had the privilege of being able to read it for a while in exchange for some money. You accepted the terms when you purchased access to the work. That access could be taken away for "reasons". It's right there in paragraph 8 subparagraph 6 line 4. You should consider yourself lucky: Other people that did not pay did not have the privilege of access to read the work at all. You should be thankful for the time you had access to read it, peasant.
/s

 

[ManofGod]

Well, paperbacks are easier to read, anyways.

 

[Stryke1983]

Ugh. You'd think they would at least take some sort of steps top make sure customers didn't lose what they bought...

They are giving you a refund according to the link. I don't see this as a major deal. If they were removing your access to the books and that was it I would totally understand the outrage in the link. But if Microsoft are refunding you I can just go and get the book from somewhere else without any loss other than the inconvenience.

As an aside, the guy in the link seems to be overreacting slightly considering he thinks it "destroy any sense of intrinsic, civilization-supporting value in literary works." Can you imagine how he reacts when he finds that someone used the last of milk or he has to wait two cycles at a red light because a trailer took too long going through?

Edit: No idea why this text is all being struck through, but I can't be bothered to investigate why.

 

[odditory]

Well, paperbacks are easier to read, anyways.

Or just avoid untrustworthy digital stores.

 

[ManofGod]

Or just avoid untrustworthy digital stores.

Nah, paperback books never die from battery exhaustion, can be read well taking a bath or on the toilet and do not break when dropped. ")

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

They are giving you a refund according to the link. I don't see this as a major deal. If they were removing your access to the books and that was it I would totally understand the outrage in the link. But if Microsoft are refunding you I can just go and get the book from somewhere else without any loss other than the inconvenience.

Ah, I missed that detail, thanks.


Also, don't get me wrong. I never purchased any ebooks from them (or anyone else for that matter) so it is not an issue I am personally lamenting.

It does in a way set precedent for what happens if/when other digital services shut down. You know, like the Apple Store or Steam. Though these seem molich less likely that they will go anywhere.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Or just avoid untrustworthy digital stores.

Good advice, but I think most people would consider a store backed by a major tech brand like Microsoft to not be an untrustworthy one.

 

[Stryke1983]

If you are that concerned about durability then I have bad news for you. Books also fair poorly in water. The spine can break, or pages rip if dropped. They degrade over time. Many e-readers can also handle water or drops. The reasons you gave are prime reasons to not have a smart phone either, yet they are ubiquitous nowadays.

As with most things, it depends on the use case. Some people are better off with one format or the other, but most of us are able to take proper advantage of, and enjoy the benefits of, both. My e-reader gives me more convenient access to a much larger library. It's more portable. It's easier on my eyes due to adjusting to the ambient light. It's easier to hold/more ergonomic. That doesn't mean I don't have shelves of hard/paperbacks though.

 

[Delicieuxz]

Exactly what happened with GFWL, and why I've always warned people it's foolish to purchase software from Microsoft Store. Microsoft also retroactively yanked people's free One Drive storage space, and arbitrarily and unilaterally failed to fulfill their promise to support Windows 7 on all released hardware until EoL. Microsoft has a terrible track-record for posterity, and for meeting its promises. It's a company I don't trust and that I would never depend on any more than is unavoidable.

 

[Dead Parrot]

A more class move from Microsoft would have been to send out instructions on how to remove the DRM from your MS book collection before the servers die. Even with the refund, folks that thought they had a useful collection of books now have to expend effort to reacquire those books again. Assuming they are available from other sources at similar prices. OTOH, folks that discovered that some of the books they purchased were not what they needed/wanted are getting a break.

 

[Armenius]

They are giving you a refund according to the link. I don't see this as a major deal. If they were removing your access to the books and that was it I would totally understand the outrage in the link. But if Microsoft are refunding you I can just go and get the book from somewhere else without any loss other than the inconvenience.

As an aside, the guy in the link seems to be overreacting slightly considering he thinks it "destroy any sense of intrinsic, civilization-supporting value in literary works." Can you imagine how he reacts when he finds that someone used the last of milk or he has to wait two cycles at a red light because a trailer took too long going through?

Edit: No idea why this text is all being struck through, but I can't be bothered to investigate why.

Go into the BB Code Editor and get rid of the 's' in brackets.

[s]

 

[Derangel]

A more class move from Microsoft would have been to send out instructions on how to remove the DRM from your MS book collection before the servers die. Even with the refund, folks that thought they had a useful collection of books now have to expend effort to reacquire those books again. Assuming they are available from other sources at similar prices. OTOH, folks that discovered that some of the books they purchased were not what they needed/wanted are getting a break.

And then they would be sued by book publishers.

 

[DeathFromBelow]

A more class move from Microsoft would have been to send out instructions on how to remove the DRM from your MS book collection before the servers die. Even with the refund, folks that thought they had a useful collection of books now have to expend effort to reacquire those books again. Assuming they are available from other sources at similar prices. OTOH, folks that discovered that some of the books they purchased were not what they needed/wanted are getting a break.

This is Microsoft we're talking about. Are we sure they actually sold any?

I didn't even know they sold e-books.

 

[yourgrandma]

I've learned not to rely on Microsoft for anything important.You might think Edge has a excellent built in e-reader but that is until all of your bookmarks, notes and highlights are completely wiped out by a windows update for no reason as I've experienced.

 

[auntjemima]

So, let me get this straight.

You buy a regular book. You read it. It sits on a shelf or you sell it for pennies.

You buy an e-book. You read it. The service decides it's going to shut down and offers a FULL REFUND.

Now, in the normal universe, the removal of the service is an inconvenience. Although that inconvenience comes with a full refund.

Now, in Bizarro world, because our regular dead horse is Microsoft, this is basically the end of days and a good reason to not use Microsoft anymore.

Yep. Status Quo, I guess

 

[Krazy925]

Imagine if Steam did this. Really think about that.

We have almost no ability to buy PC games physically anymore.

It’s why my actual console collection the only games I buy digitally are yearly iterations with little replay value after the first year. NBA, NHL etc.

This will happen with most digital store fronts at some point in the future.

I think “common” people are really just beginning to grasp what many more technically oriented people have been saying a long time. Digital with DRM is a problem in the future.

This though? They’re refunding them. Not a huge deal but this might be a wake up call.

 

[auntjemima]

Imagine if Steam did this. Really think about that.

We have almost no ability to buy PC games physically anymore.

It’s why my actual console collection the only games I buy digitally are yearly iterations with little replay value after the first year. NBA, NHL etc.

This will happen with most digital store fronts at some point in the future.

I think “common” people are really just beginning to grasp what many more technically oriented people have been saying a long time. Digital with DRM is a problem in the future.

This though? They’re refunding them. Not a huge deal but this might be a wake up call.

I don't think you can compare ab e-book service by Microsoft that most here didn't even know was a thing to the behemoth that Steam is.

But I agree with you that this is going to become more common and the average consumer doesn't know anything about it.

 

[GoodBoy]

Games end up on GoG, drm free at some point.

Yeah you need to repurchase it which sucks, but its way cheaper there, plus updated to be compatible to current OS. And you only do this for the games that were worth a shit.

sky isn't falling..

 

[Krazy925]

I don't think you can compare ab e-book service by Microsoft that most here didn't even know was a thing to the behemoth that Steam is.

But I agree with you that this is going to become more common and the average consumer doesn't know anything about it.

I agree but every service will eventually be shuttered.

It’s part of the reason I didn’t use steam for so long. Realistically though around 2007-2009 even I gave up. The half life games and counter strike being the exception for me as I was playing those forever.

Realistically we should have some way to keep our property. Which I know as it works currently isn’t even ours. Perhaps we should fix that.

Even with my first example I probably have a bunch of old games from previous console cycles who’s servers are shut down and I can’t get patches which may or may not be important.

I’m not 100% sold on this distribution platform but it’s convenient and relatively cheaper in my experience than we had in the past.

 

[Exavior]

Nah, paperback books never die from battery exhaustion, can be read well taking a bath or on the toilet and do not break when dropped. ")

drop both into the bath and see what happens.

or more specifically the device you are reading the ebook from as you can't drop an electronic object.

that said destroy your physical book and show me your quick free access to a new copy.

 

[nightfly]

It would be interesting to know what percentage of purchases are actually refunded. Of course, we're talking Microsoft here, which isn't exactly known for telling us the truth, so we'll never actually know.

 

[defaultluser]

Microsoft has a long history of abandoning their paid cloud consumer content. They've been doing it since 2003, with the closure of Plays For Sure., then Zune Music, then whatever replaced that, over-and-over.

At this point you'd have to be retard to give them your money, which is why I just stopped caring. Stupid people who don't care enough to do research deserve to lose their money.

I give people shit when they pave over shit like this, an pretend it's fine, because that kind of misinformation is the reson idiot buy in in the first place.. But once you're bought-in, you've made your bed.

 

[auntjemima]

Microsoft has a long history of abandoning their paid cloud consumer content. They've been doing it since 2003, with the closure of Plays For Sure., then Zune Music, then whatever replaced that, over-and-over.

At this point you'd have to be retard to give them your money, which is why I just stopped caring. Stupid people who don't care enough to do research deserve to lose their money.

I give people shit when they pave over shit like this, an pretend it's fine, because that kind of misinformation is the reson idiot buy in in the first place.. But once you're bought-in, you've made your bed.

What misinformation? They decided their business model wasn't cost effective and closed shop. Unlike most business that close shop and leave you high and dry, like without warranty repair or whatever (pretty sure there is a thread in the firearm section regarding this very thing) Microsoft has given a full refund.

 

[defaultluser]

What misinformation? They decided their business model wasn't cost effective and closed shop. Unlike most business that close shop and leave you high and dry, like without warranty repair or whatever (pretty sure there is a thread in the firearm section regarding this very thing) Microsoft has given a full refund.

Not in the case of any of their music shop closures They turned off the DRM servers, and that was that.

The end of MSN Music (and associated Plays For Sure support, in favor of Zune. No refunds.

The end of Zune Music, in favor of Groove. Once again, no refunds.

Groove Music canceled, in favor of Spotify. At least they maintain your playlists this time around (assuming you can live with the player changes to Spotify.

The fact that they're stepping up to refunds after fifteen years of previously shafting customers is impressive...not! They should stop giving up on the fucking consumer product cloud every four years, and the restarting fresh the next week.

 

[auntjemima]

Not in the case of any of their music shop closures They turned off the DRM servers, and that was that..

The fact that they're stepping up to refunds after fifteen years of previously shafting customers is impressive...not!

So, they close down DRM on their music. People are upset. They decide to close their e-book store and have learned from previous times and instead of just shutting down the DRM servers again then also offer a refund so customers aren't "shafted" and people are upset?

Soooooo upset no matter what? Pretty pathetic.

 

[masquap]

So, they close down DRM on their music. People are upset. They decide to close their e-book store and have learned from previous times and instead of just shutting down the DRM servers again then also offer a refund so customers aren't "shafted" and people are upset?

Soooooo upset no matter what? Pretty pathetic.

I think you miss the point. People want their books with annotations, and they want their music, hence paying for it. What they don't want is to lose access to the goods which is what's happening.

I admit I have no sympathy though, anyone who expects Microsoft to keep a product more than 5 minutes that hasn't IMMEDIATELY obtained total market domination is kidding themselves.

 

[B770]

drop both into the bath and see what happens.

or more specifically the device you are reading the ebook from as you can't drop an electronic object.

that said destroy your physical book and show me your quick free access to a new copy.

well, i would be out many hundreds of $$$$$, i drop my book and i can get a new copy for like $10.......
go camping, no not a 2 day on the edge of the city, but real camping. after 2 days of the week long trip all the phones and e-readers are shit to bed and useless......
everything has its place, heck i have well over 300 e-books i have bought from amazon but several times that of hardcopy books on the shelf.

 

[Lakados]

well, i would be out many hundreds of $$$$$, i drop my book and i can get a new copy for like $10.......
go camping, no not a 2 day on the edge of the city, but real camping. after 2 days of the week long trip all the phones and e-readers are shit to bed and useless......
everything has its place, heck i have well over 300 e-books i have bought from amazon but several times that of hardcopy books on the shelf.

My little Kobo seems to go upwards of 25 hours between charges pretty easily, but I do pack a small solar charger to top it up along with my phone. I don't have the space any more for my book collection so I have been replacing most of my hard copies with digital and moving them to storage or donating them to various places in town. I still dream of having a large library room at home but I will have to wait until the kids are moved out at this rate before that is going to happen.

 

[raz-0]

So, they close down DRM on their music. People are upset. They decide to close their e-book store and have learned from previous times and instead of just shutting down the DRM servers again then also offer a refund so customers aren't "shafted" and people are upset?

Soooooo upset no matter what? Pretty pathetic.

Their music DRM was cracked. you shouldn't have lost anything if you were resourceful.

Their ebook drm seems to be their enterprise drm, which they should be able to run in spare cycles on azure for basically free for eternity.

Which makes me wonder if they are changing how the core technology works.

And you only get a refund if your payment method has not changed. If it has, it's store credit.

I can understand people being upset. However, if you looked at MS ebooks and didn't go WTF about having to read it in edge and no place else and STILL bought it? Well...

I like ebooks. My answer is buy on amazon, rip the DRM ASAP and keep an archival copy. For a business where all but one of the DRM models has completley failed, and the world hasn't ended, I can't see why they haven't moved on to skipping the DRM like with music.

 

[RanceJustice]

Rather than a convoluted, likely store credit refund system while losing all your content, they could have just removed the DRM entirely, leaving the files unencumbered. This would allow users to keep their library/files, more easily format shift etc... and wouldn't be very difficult unless there's something I've not considered.

For Ebooks, no matter your particular choice of store or device, I suggest looking into Calibre ( https://calibre-ebook.com/ ) , its open source, has TONS of features and even more with plug-in functionality, and can mange a library. Even better, it can strip DRM from most common formats (though you may need a plugin, depending). Overall it will make your e-reading experience smoother and avoid issues such as this.

 

[madpawn119]

Imagine if Steam did this. Really think about that.

We have almost no ability to buy PC games physically anymore.

It’s why my actual console collection the only games I buy digitally are yearly iterations with little replay value after the first year. NBA, NHL etc.

This will happen with most digital store fronts at some point in the future.

I think “common” people are really just beginning to grasp what many more technically oriented people have been saying a long time. Digital with DRM is a problem in the future.

This though? They’re refunding them. Not a huge deal but this might be a wake up call.

Think of Gamespy servers. When they went down you couldn't play multiplayer on games that the main focus was multiplayer. Made some games unplayable too.

 

[Krazy925]

Think of Gamespy servers. When they went down you couldn't play multiplayer on games that the main focus was multiplayer. Made some games unplayable too.

I hated gamespy with a passion. I remember trying to play AvP and Tribes on there back in the day.

 

[Jim Kim]

Rather than a convoluted, likely store credit refund system while losing all your content, they could have just removed the DRM entirely, leaving the files unencumbered. This would allow users to keep their library/files, more easily format shift etc... and wouldn't be very difficult unless there's something I've not considered.

For Ebooks, no matter your particular choice of store or device, I suggest looking into Calibre ( https://calibre-ebook.com/ ) , its open source, has TONS of features and even more with plug-in functionality, and can mange a library. Even better, it can strip DRM from most common formats (though you may need a plugin, depending). Overall it will make your e-reading experience smoother and avoid issues such as this.

As someone mentioned earlier there was probably some licensing issues that came into play.
I mean how expensive is it for a Trillion dollar corporation to run a DRM virtual machine.

Calibre rocks. But I don't think it strips the newer Kindle azw3??? format.

 

[Exavior]

well, i would be out many hundreds of $$$$$, i drop my book and i can get a new copy for like $10.......
go camping, no not a 2 day on the edge of the city, but real camping. after 2 days of the week long trip all the phones and e-readers are shit to bed and useless......
everything has its place, heck i have well over 300 e-books i have bought from amazon but several times that of hardcopy books on the shelf.

that's ok. Me and nature don't get along. Tried of the three leaf plant making me lose a few days here and there.

that said there are battery packs and solar chargers if you are in a place with sun but no access to AC and are 100% off the gris. Turn off cellular and wifi and with the right device you should be able to get through a few days of reading. First world problems normally also have some first world solutions.

 

[Stryke1983]

well, i would be out many hundreds of $$$$$, i drop my book and i can get a new copy for like $10.......
go camping, no not a 2 day on the edge of the city, but real camping. after 2 days of the week long trip all the phones and e-readers are shit to bed and useless......
everything has its place, heck i have well over 300 e-books i have bought from amazon but several times that of hardcopy books on the shelf.

E-readers should last weeks, not days. If I was going on a long camping trip tomorrow I'd definitely take my Kindle. Smaller, lighter, more water resistant, I have access to my full elibrary and I can still read at night without having to rely on another electrical device so it's probably more power efficient overall. If I was going off the grid for over a month I'd just take a little pocket battery pack as it would still be lighter and smaller than the multiple books I'd now being for that amount of time.

 

[Deleted member 243478]

Microsoft screwing consumers? WOW thats a new step for them...

 

[Exavior]

E-readers should last weeks, not days. If I was going on a long camping trip tomorrow I'd definitely take my Kindle. Smaller, lighter, more water resistant, I have access to my full elibrary and I can still read at night without having to rely on another electrical device so it's probably more power efficient overall. If I was going off the grid for over a month I'd just take a little pocket battery pack as it would still be lighter and smaller than the multiple books I'd now being for that amount of time.

I think that what he meant by camping is moving to the middle of a forest to hide because 4 different federal agencies are looking for you and you need to be off the grid for the rest of your life. In that case his example holds true. otherwise for anyone normal person's definition there are a few holes with his logic.

I also ignored the fact that he incorrectly thought he is out money to access ebooks from a new device vs it being free... As $10 is more than $0 last I checked, although that is before common core.

 

[westrock2000]

They are giving you a refund according to the link.

Oh great! I watch some guys on YouTube that hustle scammers from India. And usually the Indians start with "Microsoft is discontinuing a service you had with them and want to issue you a refund". These guys should have plenty more material now.