Microsoft Admits Normal Windows 10 Users Are "Testing" Unstable Updates

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Dec 15, 2018.

  1. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

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    Bluescreen? Don't care for any numbers, no time. Back up profile, format, reinstall and transfer profile back over. Stupid? Sure, but thats Windows for you. ;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
  2. mda

    mda [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yeah it was the blue screen with the reverse smiley " : ( "
     
  3. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Do you use windows? Because, I haven't seen a ad in a year (maybe longer) and even that ad was something that was innocuous and I only bothered with removing it, because people like yourself complained about it (and other ads) and that they either couldn't be removed or were hard to remove. It was easy...google search and, as I recall, a quick change in the policy editor.
    It's kinda like the complaint that they keep bringing back candy crush (which hasn't happened in over a year.

    FWIW, you're trying to get people to switch to linux is about as likely to succeed as a Jehovah's Witness convincing someone to join that church by knocking on doors.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
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  4. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    If you get it again let us know. It may help others or others may be able to help you.
     
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  5. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

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    Any form of advertising as OS level isn't acceptable. People really need to stop making excuses for unacceptable behavior.
     
  6. naib

    naib [H]ard|Gawd

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    But but but Linux doesn't have VR
     
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  7. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    So turn it off. If you don't know how, google it. If you don't know how to use a search engine ask someone. Alternatively, sit down for dinner and pour a big glass of whine.
     
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  8. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

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    The point is, you shouldn't have to turn it off. Furthermore, I'm not convinced that turning it off even does anything long term.

    You've got to stop defending this bullshit, it's literally like being in love with your rapist. I'm also speaking factually, I'm not whining about anything. You're the one whinng about people calling out Microsoft over their bullshit behaviour.

    More allegations of MS spying on users activity even with tracking disabled:

    https://lifehacker.com/windows-10-collects-activity-data-even-when-tracking-is-1831054394?IR=T
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
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  9. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    The point is, you are nit picking in any attempt to make Windows look bad.
     
  10. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Nope, and quite a few other things as well but hey, it has a gazzilion desktops that do not always work well together but, reasons......
     
  11. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

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    So...Pretty much what you do in relation to Linux?

    Advertising at OS level is unacceptable, toggle hidden somewhere within the OS or not. I fail to see how that's in any way nitpicking.
     
  12. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

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    Well now you're just nitpicking. :)
     
  13. /dev/null

    /dev/null [H]ardForum Junkie

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    On my dual boot laptop, I haven't actually gone to do updates in a while.

    Today I hit "Check for Updates" and I got the following:

    upload_2018-12-19_5-49-46.png

    I'm pretty far behind, aren't I?
     
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  14. naib

    naib [H]ard|Gawd

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    have you actually seen how many setting pages you need to turn off to basically not have advertising? its like in 10 different places and then there is no proof that is all
     
  15. tetris42

    tetris42 [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'd argue that telling an OS to turn off something, then it either not turning it off or else reactivating it later without your permission is not a nitpick, so much as a compromised system. That right there is the core reason I haven't moved to Win10 yet. I can deal with annoyances, but having control of the OS out of my hands is simply not how I use computers.
     
  16. mufcfan

    mufcfan Limp Gawd

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    Yeah, if you want a straightforward settings menu with the most common settings not hidden, then...

    16.jpg

    ...look further.
     
  17. Todd Walter

    Todd Walter Gawd

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    All our W10 PCs (SP4s no less) have stopped installing updates as well; I've had to download them from the catalog and install them manually. Not the shitshow that Vista was but grinding its way there slowly.
     
  18. polonyc2

    polonyc2 [H]ard as it Gets

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    does not clicking 'Check for Updates' only apply to the major twice yearly updates or the monthly Patch Tuesday updates as well?
     
  19. /dev/null

    /dev/null [H]ardForum Junkie

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    so I started this morning and on an i5-7300U, 8G ram, and 850 evo 500G ssd & 200+Mbit internet it took 2.5 hours. Unbelievable...
     
  20. BloodyIron

    BloodyIron 2[H]4U

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    1. Everyone is struggling to do 60fps at 4k, whether it's Windows, Console or whatever. This isn't an issue isolated to Linux, if this is your expectation, then you're going to be paying plenty out the nose for years to come, agnostic of the platform.
    2. Mouse feel is off? What games are you playing where you experience that? I haven't experienced it with any DXVK game at this time, apart from Overwatch with non-16:9 resolutions (which is already being explored for fixing). Overwatch competitive, not once felt input lag, whether it's mouse or keyboard (1920x1080 mind you).
    3. WINE is far less hacky than getting old games running on Windows. Furthermore, there's plenty of games that get released on Windows that are plenty "hacky" to get going properly anyways. Just look at buggy Ubisoft games, or driver BSODs while playing. That isn't hacky? If you want an example of an old game on new Windows, look at "Sid Meier's Railroads!", it's a serious pain to get it working on just Win 8, let alone Win 10.
    4. If the game plays in the 60-140FPS (or more) realm, and it takes net-zero effort to get setup (vs Windows), why does the method actually matter? I think you're getting caught up on something that doesn't matter.

    The fact of the matter is Gaming on Linux is more than just "possible" as you say, it's now mature with thousands of native games for it, and many more thousands available through various methods (which are streamlined with tools like Lutris).


     
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  21. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Dude, it's been off for a year. It's off. Of course if you turned it off a year or so back, you'd already know that.
     
  22. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    As I recall, it was 2 places. It definitely wasn't close to 10.
     
  23. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    IT doesn't turn it back on. Again...been off for at least a year (as in 2 major updates or more). This is the same as the candy crush argument. It was once valid. It no longer is.
     
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  24. naib

    naib [H]ard|Gawd

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  25. Ryun

    Ryun Limp Gawd

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    Thanks for the link. Didn't know about this because I don't go through every setting every time windows rolls out a new feature update.
     
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  26. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

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    No problem. Microsoft bank on the idea that people don't go through every little setting every major update, that's the idea sadly...
     
  27. tetris42

    tetris42 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Depending on the information out there, it is and it isn't. Few questions:

    1. Specifically, what procedure disables updates permanently so that they NEVER turn back on without permission?
    2. In what version of Windows 10 did they implement this? Was it documented by Microsoft, or simply discovered by users?
    3. Has Microsoft made any statement they won't re-enable automatic updating again in the future without your permission?

    See, even if what you're saying is completely true, their reputation has been so hostile in this area, without some official statement, there's no telling they won't turn this back ON at some point in the future, and change the process for turning it off per major version change as they've literally done in the past. So you can say it's no longer an issue, but without a statement from MS also, you can't really claim that, since you don't know what they're going to do next.
     
  28. mufcfan

    mufcfan Limp Gawd

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    Yes, because if they made that, or any other, statement, you would believe them, right?
    That's the gist of it: People generally care about how it works and how you can make it work and not how the company or any other person, be it fanboy or hater, claims it works.

    You tend to claim that updating Linux is better all-around and a pure joy. Then why are there articles like this on non-biased sites: https://www.maketecheasier.com/fix-ubuntu-update-errors/ ?
    That article is far from having 'Great user experience' written all over it.

    Each OS has its faults and its strengths. None of the popular ones deserve pounding into the ground. Otherwise, none of them would be popular still.
    On the other hand, I agree 100% that each of those OSs have potential to be as close to perfect as an IT Pro's wet dream. :)
     
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  29. tetris42

    tetris42 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Not necessarily, but if Microsoft says they'll stop the practice, I'd say that counts for more than them saying nothing at all about it, especially when they've done the exact opposite in the past. Take their Xbox parity initiative. Microsoft used to release Xbox exclusives and keep games off the PC all the time. Now, they've publicly stated all games released by them will also come out on Windows 10. Do I believe they'll do that forever? Not necessarily. Do I believe they're going to continue doing that for the foreseeable future? Yeah, I basically do. Them giving some control back to the user could be a similar thing.

    I haven't said that once, you're mixing me up with someone else. I'm not pro or anti Microsoft or Linux. What I'm against is bullshit, and mandatory automatic updating with no recourse if a problem that permanently affects you is introduced falls under that category.

    Every version of Windows prior to 10, if they release an update that causes problems for you, you can skip it, thus you have no problems. Windows 10 offers no such luxury without extensive workarounds that are not well documented and / or can change from version to version. So what works for 1607 may not work for 1803, but nobody's published the info of it online. I don't use computers for any serious work that can update and cause problems for me at any given time. The End. I need that fully under my control with backup plans if something goes wrong. Not being in control of my OS is simply something I'm never going to accept. And for the record, I'm not on Linux, I'm still on Windows 7, knowing I'll have to switch eventually.
     
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  30. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

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    I'm gonna say it.

    "Compared to the Windows and even macOS updating procedures, the updating process on a non bleeding edge Linux distro is pure joy".

    Done. ;)
     
  31. Shadowed

    Shadowed Limp Gawd

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    I can't leave Windows for gaming due to some peripherals only working wirelessly on Windows 10.

    But I do not feel the need to leave W10 yet. I do not see ads as they are easily turned off. Cortana is also off.

    It feels like Windows to me.

    Windows is now Xbox for me. Purely for gaming. I may even buy Crackdown 3 on Windows Store to further dig myself a hole...

    I also can't see 7 as an option as I get significantly lower performance in some games vs playing it on 10.

    But I do believe in multi platform purchases for games for the most part. I love being able to install a game I own on Steam and seeing a Windows, Mac, and Linux icon. I don't want to buy a piece of software that only works on 1 OS, but I will if that software is worth it.

    If I my entire steam library supported the 3 major OS's then I would also feel less trapped on Windows.

    It reminds me of iPhone/Android users who have spent so much money on their respective app stores that it would be financially unsound to swap platforms.
     
  32. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

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    All of the titles I bought under Steam when I was running Windows installed and ran fine under Linux where possible either as native titles or via Proton without the need to repurchase the games. I owned a license for the software, so I just installed it.
     
  33. tetris42

    tetris42 [H]ardness Supreme

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    What games? I'm not doubting you, I'd just be interested in testing that for myself.
     
  34. Shadowed

    Shadowed Limp Gawd

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    The game I play the most still don't work on Linux: R6 Siege.
    But I will say the 2nd game I play, Elite Dangerous, is possible via Passthrough.


    R6 Siege. I get about a 40fps drop on average. I play that game at 177fps (180hz).
     
  35. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

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    Give it time..

    I actually meant, you don't have to repurchase games you bought under Windows to play under Linux, the license simply transfers. ;)
     
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  36. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I didn't remove it from 8 places, but I'll be honest I've never used Ink so no need to bother and I never pay attention to the lock screen unless it's a new image that I like enough to check out the info links...and when it's an ad they link to whatever the ad is. In short, I notice them at most 1/month and probably less than that, but if I see them again anytime soon, I might bother to remove them, just to see if that brings back the image info links.

    I believe I removed the start ad and the action center one. For live tile issues, I just removed or uninstalled the links I wasn't interested in, which was probably everything but weather, Netflix (though I just removed it form the start menu and pinned it to my task bar). I'd probably do Cortana if I used it, but I've never used it.

    Regardless, as your link illustrates, these are super easy to remove (easier than I recall, to be honest, since you nolonger need to use the policy editor.
     
  37. naib

    naib [H]ard|Gawd

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    super easy, but obtrusified splattered all over the place... "oh you forgot this one TO BAD ADS!!!" it should be one option
    [x]no Ads

    in fact there should be ZERO ads pushed by the OS, the OS is not there for advertisement. Bing/Google... sure, but at OS level... this means MS developers are wasting time on this sort of thing rather than OS stuff... like stability
     
  38. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I have done none of that and yet I have ZERO ads in my OS. Oh well, sounds like on problem on your system or a personal issue perhaps? No issues on my system and no ads.
     
  39. naib

    naib [H]ard|Gawd

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    and that neither refutes my statement that to fully disable advertisement is an obtrusified process involving many distributed setting. Neither does it dismiss the statement that Windows10 can distribute advertisement to end-users and this capability is baked into the OS
     
  40. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    The ads he's referring to are things like popups for office 360. On the start screen they occasionally have links to an advertiser (linked in is the only one I've seen) or another reference to something from MS itself. I see the start screen one very rarely and I just don't see why I care. It's not like I look at the start screen for more than a few seconds (unless I really like the image and even then I only do it once).