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Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by cageymaru, Jan 28, 2019.
That is insane, a whole year!
Tell me, how has Origin and Battle.net store exclusivity impacted sales of EA published and Activision/Blizzard published games on PC?
Even though the Windows Store came with the OS it was so buggy and full of issues that those are the reasons it affected PC sales and inevitably died, not the exclusivity. The Xbox store on PC isn't even that much better either.
Damn, i was excited about this game... first game ive been excited about in a long time.....damn it!. Last thing i want to do is have more crap installed on my PC.... this is stupid. Oh well... Maybe they will do a VR upgrade and put it on Oculus store... thats the only other store i have other than steam. Epic can blow me.... So, they want more money per sale, but are limiting their market exposure? There's a saying... "don't try to retire off of one sale"
I agree, GOG does it right and that's how you compete with Steam and give value to the consumer.
If we do not stop this.. (boycott) this game.. i know.. i hate that word... and i love competition.. but the last thing i want is 20+ distribution apps running on my PC with updates and stupid pop-ups hogging system resources.. just so i can play certain games.. f@ck that. Rather go back to brick and mortar stores and DVD's... at least i can choose where i buy shit... pissing me right the F@ck off!
I'm curious how people who feel this is somehow inherently wrong feel about Steamworks? As in you can buy the game on any store front but you have to activate it and play through a specific platform (Steam). This was a large part of how Valve grew Steam's user base.
Would you be fine if Epic took the same approach here instead? Buy it on Steam but activate and play through Epic? As naturally if they want to copy success this could well be another future initiative.
And how long is that going to last? Just a skim google says Epic is worth twice what Valve is already, and that's before the Epic Games store launched.
I had no knowledge of GOG. How's that work? You both can login to the same account and play the single player games w/ 1 purchase license? This would actually get me buying games...there's tons I'd love to buy and play, but then my two boys will cry endlessly because they want them too.
Especially for single player games, no way can I afford to buy them 3 times. (FFS, I already bought 3 gaming PC's)
Games are supplied as .exes so you just install them on whichever PC you like. No activation required and no DRM so you can have the same game on multiple devices simultaneously.
So should the language be more like exclusive day or week one release? Thankfully I've got RE2 to occupy me and I've been letting the DLC for SOTTR gather so I can play them in game. Got time to let this play out. I can understand day one exclusives, don't like them, but I get it.
This will kill Epic store. And I'm happy. Fuck Epic.
They could've just added cloud saves, reviews, cleaned up the UI.
The developers would flock to them because of a huge difference in how much they would earn compared to Steam. And in return, buyers will flock to Epic store because of a huge amount of games.
Instead, they pull a dick move.
Now, what I will do is boycott Epic store and pirate Metro.
Win for me. Lose-Lose for Epic and Metro developers.
Considering how we now have Origin, Uplay, Battle.net launcher, Rockstar launcher, Trion launcher, Bethesda's new launcher, and god knows how many others, many of which are a DIRECT RESULT of not wanting to pay Steam such a high cut, suggests that this is clearly a false statement. You think all these smaller game clients would exist if publishers were HAPPY with handing over 30% of every sale? I get the point you're making, but you seem to be confusing "like" with "temporarily tolerating."
GOG gives you installers, so you can download the game, back it up, it's yours forever. Honestly, GOG is the ONLY storefront to do right by the customer in this regard. No other store has a guarantee you'll be able to keep your game if they get shut down, or deactivate it later on your account for whatever reason. GOG is the last place your rights haven't been taken away from you. For every other storefront, whether it's on Steam, Epic, Uplay, whatever, it's hard for me to care which one, it's all the same bullshit to me. In terms of actual ownership, there's GOG v. everyone else.
No they are not worth more than Valve on top of that EPIC is being nearly owned by Tencent (40% stock). So they are owned by Chinese now. I sure hope they don't add some data mining shit into their client app. Anyhow, being that they are primarily Chinese owned alone is enough for me to not want to buy anything from their store. I will still support their Unreal Tournament game but not their store.
Fortnite Creator Epic Games Valued at Nearly $15 Billion
I can't find anywhere that says Valve is valued greater than $10 billion. Granted, these are "valuation" numbers, but still; I think the 800lb Gorilla is ignoring the baby elephant.
a year from now it will be available on steam? So I guess I'll get it on a Steam sale
Yeah not getting it now. I'll wait until a non-spyware store has it.
Valuation yes, but they made a lot less net profit than Valve and so far Fortnite is pretty much their only golden egg. Prior to that they were still green but didn't make all that much. That $15B mark smell like the crazy IPO valuations (like to mentioned). Granted that I think EPIC is far better than that.
That's not what happened at all. The $10 discount at Epic negates the extra profit they would have made. They made the move because Epic is paying them a bunch of money behind the scenes to, which frankly is shady of Epic. If they just wanted more profits they would have kept the game on both stores at the same price and made more money on the Epic platform. This entire honoring pre-orders, but not selling more copies, until a year after launch,"exclusive" is all because of shady Epic shenanigans.
I don't mind the Epic store and I don't mind them charging less. I do mind their underhanded dev poaching strategy and don't think it bodes well for their treatment of the gaming community moving forward.
Technically you are correct, but there a number of people who buy out of principle and if they don't want to download another software store you lost that sale.
This is the same problem I have with TV today. I can't get everything I want from one place. I know I know...first world problem...but it really bothers me that I can't just have all my PC games on Steam. I also dislike that I have to use Netflix, Hulu, CBS All Access, Amazon Prime, HBO, and traditional cable (for most of my sports)...I just want everything in one place...but it's never going to happen. Ever.
That said, I hope Steam sees this as a time to drop it's prices for publishers, otherwise this is going to get even more out of control.
you missed my point. fifty-eleven storefronts with some games over here some over there just doesn't make the pc an attractive platform. at the beginning of the decade, you only had steam to worry about now you've got to install literally a dozen apps.
The thing that I think a lot of people are missing is this is kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. From a consumer standpoint, of course it's nice to have everything in one place. From an anti-monopoly perspective, that's not a good thing. Basically here are the options for the industry:
1. Have everything all under one company like Steam with basically monopoly control. Maximum convenience for the consumer, minimum protection against abuse of power.
2. Have a dozen different launchers for various companies. Less convenient for the consumer, greater protection against abuse of power from any one company since there's competition.
3. Have an open standard so that consumers can use some sort of frontend to have all their games in one place that the competing launchers can all hook into. This would be the best of all worlds and would require companies to cooperate with each other for the benefit of the consumer, so this will almost certainly never happen.
Since #3 is unrealistic, that means the ONLY way left to keep any one company in check (in this case, Valve), is to have competition from others. In other words, the market is such that you can have consumer protection OR you can have convenience. There's not room for both.
I think you're missing your own point. Fine, let's go back to the beginning of the decade. If I want to buy all the exclusive games, I need to buy:
1. A gaming PC
2. A Wii
3. An Xbox 360
4. A Playstation 3
That's several hundred dollars of additional hardware right there, and you're losing out on a bunch of options than you would if they were available on PC. Plus, there were always some games that didn't release on Steam. Starcraft 2 came out in 2010. Wolfenstein came out in 2009, wasn't released on Steam. The fragmentation was always there, it's just gotten bigger.
So yes, you're technically correct, in that if you want console exclusives, you "only" have to buy 3 more devices, as opposed to downloading half a dozen launchers or more on PC, however, you don't have to PAY more for redundant hardware, and you're not actively losing gameplay and graphics options the way you are on a console.
Console exclusives = I have to pay hundreds of dollars more and have gameplay / graphics options removed from me.
PC store exclusives = I have to spend 5 minutes creating a new login and password.
I'm still not seeing how console exclusives are better.
3 weeks to go and it gets pulled from steam is a pretty shitty move. Epic has to be paying 4A games some serious coin to do that.
I broke down last friday and pre-ordered the game from steam, even though i really dont pre-order anymore. got the gold edition for all future DLC etc.
on the one hand, im happy i got the game because i have really enjoyed the others and REALLY want to see RTX in action, but on the other, i now have a bad taste in my mouth from such shenanigans
EDIT: hmm, actually it is deep silver that is the publisher, i wonder if 4A games actually had any say in all this, and if not, if they are not as pissed as us gamers
from watching their making of videos, they seemed like genuinely good people
I agree with all those saying GOG does competition correctly. First of all they don't pull exclusivity bullshit much if at all. Not with anything that I've ever wanted. They also offer DRM free games, which is one of their main FRIENDLY competitive practices. They also have SteamConnect. It doesn't work on everything, but I've gotten a fair few of my Steam games for free on GOG by just clicking a link once in a while. They also have competitive sales. I still do most of my buying in Steam because it's rock solid, convenient, and I already have well over three hundred games there. I still buy a few things from GOG once in a while though, because they do things right.
Forcing an exclusive is just purely ass-holery. It doesn't make me want to go to Epic. It makes me want to declare the exclusive game, it's publisher, and studio dead to me. I won't even buy Metro in 2020 now. (and I own the others and their enhanced versions) I would have happily paid full price day one on Steam for it. (though I wasn't going to pre-order) Just would have waited for an initial few opinions, and jumped on it.
They ruined that for me though. I don't buy EA games or UBI games for similar reasons. Bethesda is going to be a LOT harder for me to ignore, just because they publish 90% of the AAA games on the PC that I actually want to play. (id, Arkane, and even Bethsoft themselves...) That one is actually causing me some inner turmoil, but I'll probably cave for RAGE 2. Metro doesn't have that same pull for me (even though I love the series) so it's getting axed. I'm pushing an electrode into the part of my brain that remembers the Metro series as I type this, and zapping it away forever.
Fuck Epic. They've lost me as a customer too. Though they were working on that for some time already.
So what? Microsoft is valued at $770 Billion, have a store built into their OS, and yet most gamers won't touch the games in there with a ten foot pole because the WIndows 10 store is a disaster. And Microsoft also tried the shady tact of paying a few publishers to keep their titles off of Steam. Guess how those games did? Went nowhere. Eventually they came crawling back to Steam, but long after anyone cared about the game.
So the "Epic is worth more than Valve" line is completely pointless. There are intangibles that can't be measured in valuations, like inertia and mindshare.
This guy gets it. BTW, the "$10 discount" at Epic is far worse for the publisher in terms of lost revenue, because the userbases aren't equal. So they took a big upfront bribe from Epic to make up for the fact they'll lose millions by not continuing to have it available on Steam, offset somewhat by Steam preorder sales.
Regardless, all the people trying to conflate "yeah but what about Origin and uPlay and Blizzard launcher" -- nobody sane begrudges publishers for hosting their own firstparty titles on their own store. But resorting to shady bullshit like bribing publishers to keep their game OFF of another marketplace, that's not "increasing competition" -- gamers/consumers don't win, nobody wins.
This is very true. I wanted a few of those MS-published games too, but managed to avoid them. As you say, by the time they caved, and they became available on Steam, I kinda lost interest. Of course with MS, they've never put the necessary effort into doing things right, always back out on support, tend to leave game players high and dry, and pull BS shady deals. They've proven to me that the only thing they're good for, for me as a game player, is a nice gamepad, and a questionable-yet-popular OS to run my games on.
I remember a lot of people hating the concept in the beginning. They gave it a chance based on the clout of valve software.
And the Chinese/Tencent factor will always be a factor, meaning no matter how much of a good guy anyone thinks Epic or Tim Sweeney is (I happen to think he is), if the Epic store starts to gain traction, nowhere is it written that Epic won't raise their store fee, or that Tencent won't turn the screws for them -- why wouldn't they?
Sure, they'll dress up the language "In order to maintain our high standards and continue to have the best marketplace, we have to raise our fee to cover increased operating costs. But don't worry, this is a good thing!"
Steam = 30%
Epic = 12%
30% of $60 = $42
12% of $50 = $44
Deep Silver makes $2 more per sale even though they charge $10 less. They make more money, gamers save more money at launch prices. Releasing at $50 makes their game more competitive compared to other AAA games which are $60. They'll loose a few sales jumping from Steam, but also gain some with a lower price. Sure, they could continue selling it on Steam and raise the price. But to make an equal profit margin they'd have to push over $60. And we'd be back where we started, whining, cries of boycotts, ect. Easier to just pull it off of Steam, strong arm everyone into buying it on Epic for a year (because $2 made is better).
They'll put it back in a year for the hold outs and make their lost sales there. When push comes to shove, people will buy the game on Epic's platform. Most customers are impatient, and most don't give a crap about platforms. Developers and publishers know this. Software, not platform or hardware is what attracts users.
Deep Silver/4A Games know more about selling games and turning a profit on them than anyone in this thread. If you think you're better at marketing games you'd probably delusional. They didn't make this decision lightly.
Indeed. This is more of a Valve issue than an Epic one. Rage 2, Metro Exodus, The Division 2. What else will not be on Steam this year? Will more AAA games jump ship to another platform? Probably.
Valve needs to fight to keep their dominance. I hope they do because I trust them more than any of the others simply because its private and Newell is a great guy.
Do you have any hard sources? Again, I'd love to see if that is the case. Otherwise, its just repeating nonsense parroted by angry redditors.
As for Microsoft, their store is more than "just another client". Hence why no one wants it. No one wants to touch UWP period.
You're delusional if you think they initiated this cluster fuck of a fake exclusive over $2 a copy. They are being paid by Epic (as Epic has done in the past already with other devs and said they will continue doing so) to pull their title from steam.
$2 is pretty significant actually. Maybe not to us but when you sell a few hundred thousand copies, that number adds up fast. And dropping $10 off the sale price could have a huge impact on total sales. It all depends on if the vocal people protesting this actually make up a significant number or not.
Epic is probably shopping on Steam what Game they can buy out next and add it to their HTML launcher.
This is bullshit. Hey Epic I still remember when you were a want to be developer peddling commander keen and jazz jackrabbit out of a fucking magazine.....go make your money with fortnite.
The market will continue to fragment, and if we are being honest we should all have known that Steam couldn't last forever as the sole store front.
Yes they might at some future point raise their store fees, just like Steam would be wise to lower their store fees to remain competitive. Gamers' have by and large proven to buy the games they want, regardless of store front and even past performance of the series. The only market these days making decisions with their money is the developer/producer market, which is why we now have multiple growing store fronts. If your argument of market size held any water we would still see EA games sold on Steam.
I would love everything on one market place, but that just isn't sustainable, so I have multiple store fronts on my PC. The only one running 24/7 is Steam, but I am not going to miss out on a game I want to play just because it isn't on my favorite launcher...
By and large, the majority of the market that wants Metro will buy Metro, even if it isn't on Steam.
Welp, guess I'll do my due dilligence and boycott this game. Hope the others of you that aren't happy about this do the same. Not solely because of the exclusivity, I get it to a certain point but I don't LIKE it - what I really don't like is that it was promised to Steam and is now being taken back. So the devs can kiss my ass on this one.
It would be great if it was available everywhere and you could pick where you preferred, and they competed on price rather than exclusivity. It would be great if there was a one-size-fits-all service that was the best possible combination of value for both players and developers, offering every possible game at the best possible price with the fairest possible revenue split and all the auxiliary features like unified friends lists and cloud saves and quality control.
Sadly it's not going to happen, just like the days of Netflix being the one-stop shop for streaming are over. People can stick to their questionable "I refuse to use anything but Steam" principles (oh, unless it's for a Blizzard game or whatever they're a particular fan of, in which case it doesn't count for some reason), but ultimately they'll go to where the game's available if they want to play it badly enough. Which is the whole point. And, frankly, the "pulling the preorder" thing is just another reason not to preorder games. As if another was needed. No one has really missed out.
If it looks like it's a good game, I'll pick it up on the Epic store. If it looks less tempting, maybe I'll wait and get it in a Steam sale next year or later, or (ideally) on GOG.
Nothing to be outraged about as it was just business. Besides it's not the devs fault (4A Games), this was done by publisher Deep Silver.
Ah, yes, the Publisher, not the development team, that's what I meant - misspoke.
I'm not outraged, just not going to buy the game because of this reason. It's a push to get people onto the Epic platform while it's in it's infancy (obviously, by the look of it) -- not interested.