Metro Exodus Is an Epic Store Exclusive

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by cageymaru, Jan 28, 2019.

  1. DPI

    DPI Nitpick Police

    Messages:
    10,956
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Can't tell if you're trolling and just here to argue, or actually believe that nonsense. Do you not understand what opportunity cost is? https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

    Margin is irrelevant without factoring volume. Deep SIlver isn't "making more money" when they're limiting themselves to a store with a tiny fraction of the buying customer base. Not selling on Steam means leaving hundreds of thousands of additional sales on the table, and for those they'll keep 0% instead of 70% -- conservatively millions of dollars on a high profile AAA like Exodus.

    If they wanted to make it $50 on Epic, and leave it $60 on Steam, cool. That's benefitting consumers and increasing competition. But taking a bribe check to keep it off Steam for a year = not increasing competition.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
    tunatime, Gorankar and Kardonxt like this.
  2. Bawjaws

    Bawjaws Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    434
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    I guess they, and Epic, are banking that a sizable number of people will install Epic in order to be able to play Exodus.

    Bear in mind that the publisher has almost certainly been paid cash money to make this an Epic exclusive. I'd imagine that they've crunched the numbers and reckon that they'll be no worse off than they would have been sticking with Steam.

    Personally, I have no idea how many sales they'll lose through consumers deciding that they're so against installing Epic that even the lower price won't persuade them. But hundreds of thousands feels pretty excessive to me at a gut level - I just don't think that installing another client is a deal-breaker for that many people. After all, they're probably already using Steam, Origin, UPlay, et al.
     
    GoldenTiger likes this.
  3. tetris42

    tetris42 [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,518
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2014
    You keep saying this, but it's wrong. How much of the PC game sales go through Steam? Say 70%? Well let's say through exclusive deals, Epic manages to steal 10%, giving Steam 60% and having a wider variety of PC storefronts. Having more places competing to sell a product and a less concentrated marketshare of any one publisher is the very DEFINITION of competition.

    Now you could argue it reduces the competition for a specific game, since obviously, if I want to buy Metro Exodus, I need to go through Epic and that's my only option. But if that's what enables a company to survive in an entrenched environment where Steam already has a de facto monopoly, then that also INCREASES competition for the market as a whole. Do you not get that?

    FTFY.

    Hell, I STILL don't trust any store you don't own a copy of your game as opposed to just some DRM scheme which can be turned off at any time. Don't get why people think Steam is some holy grail over Epic, it's all the same bullshit except for GOG.
     
    GoldenTiger likes this.
  4. TordanGow

    TordanGow [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,069
    Joined:
    May 25, 2015
    This. Unless there are sizable kickbacks I don't get the motivation to make it exclusive. I'd buy it, but I don't want to buy it through the epic store. Steam charges a larger cut? Fine price it higher on steam. As a consumer that's one of the leave offensive reasons to explain price swings. If you tell me that one store is 88/12 and the other is 70/30, and to make the same revenue per sale it needs to be X price on each platform then I can't fault the business.
     
  5. Time2Kill

    Time2Kill [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,152
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2005
    This would be quickly countered by Steam making an agreement that you can't have a retail price lower at competing stores and still sell on Steam.
     
    Bigshrimp and tetris42 like this.
  6. Gorankar

    Gorankar [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,213
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2000
    Except that already happens all the time. You can find the same games for less on gog, or origin, at times.

    If you are cool with it, then buy it. All I can say for certain is that they have lost at least one sale until it shows up on something other than Epic's storefront.
    Origin, Uplay, Steam, well, I am simply not bothering with any more for games I will likely be able to get the more complete edition of a year from now on my storefront of choice. Likely for bargain pricing. I hope Epic is paying them well for this. It makes zero sense otherwise.
     
  7. Bigshrimp

    Bigshrimp Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    290
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2009
    What they should do is give Steam keys to people that buy the game on the Epic Games store after it goes back on sale next year, but that's too forward thinking for them I assume. :p
     
  8. WorldExclusive

    WorldExclusive [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,870
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Once again, the people that pirate get the long end of the stick.
    Not buying games on Epic store ever! Your data isn't safe there.
     
  9. sharknice

    sharknice [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,672
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Epic is definitely giving developers cash for exclusivity. But in a year once they've established a competitive customer base they won't need to. There will be developers exclusively selling on Epic because they get so much more money.


    And people afraid of their data, lmao. The "breach" exposed what of yours exactly? You know Sony had a much worse breach a couple years ago. GoG, Origin, and yes even Steam have been breached. Almost every service has had a breach at some point.


    I've heard so many stupid reasons now I'm convinced everyone that refuses to purchase from Epic is just a little baby crying for attention.
     
    GoldenTiger and tetris42 like this.
  10. Gorankar

    Gorankar [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,213
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2000
    They will have to keep paying devs for years, because unlike Origin, Epic doesn't have a massive publisher like EA insuring first run on everything that goes through that publisher. Some people are simply never going to use their service. They are entitled to state their opinion the same as you are. You can call people crybabies all you want. Who do you think that reflects ill of?

    If they had tried this around the same time as Valve did, and only kept their own titles as exclusives, it likely would have been received much better. Now they seem like an also ran years later getting in the way of people that want buy from the Steam storefront. I don't really have anything against epic, I, like some others, just am not going to bother with yet another client. My friends list and games are on steam, that is pretty much the end of it. I still do not use Origin either, likely never will. The great thing about this level of game saturation we have, is that people really can just skip Exodous. I don't really bother with the gaming sites since they all went insane, or on the take, so I will not even really hear that much about it. In a few weeks it will be just another of many other forgotten titles for me. That is a lost sale. If they keep going exclusive with other titles, that's more lost sales.
     
    tunatime and J3RK like this.
  11. sharknice

    sharknice [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,672
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2012
    If you really wanted Exodus you would buy it there. I don't believe a single person spouting the bs that they won't go through the tiniest inconvenience of using another launcher. If you won't go through that tiny inconvenience you weren't going to buy it anyways.

    It's the exact same bs people said with Call of Duty, Overwatch, Battlefield, and every other game not available on Steam and they ended up buying them anyways.
     
  12. Flogger23m

    Flogger23m [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,890
    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Underlined part is important. It is a high profile AAA game. People want to play it, and an additional launcher won't stop the majority of paying customers. You seem to think the majority of PC gamers who wanted to buy Metro are no longer going to buy it. That simply isn't true. Again, look at history and see how that has panned out.

    You keep repeating this without proof. Again, do you have a source for this? Or are you just raging?

    And how is SteamOS working out? LOL.

    You're pretty much spot on here. We've seen this unfold dozens of times in the past. At this point most customers aren't as phased when they're told to install yet another client. In 2011 it was a huge deal, but I already have four clients installed. I also have another game which has its own updater (and no launcher/client). Add in how popular Blizzard games are and how many people installed the Rockstar Launcher just for a few AAA games and you get the picture.

    Sure, people will be upset. But in 2019 most won't give a damn because they already have more than one. They have more statistics, research & experience in selling games than anyone on this forum. I think they know what they're doing. Outside of a handful of reddit users / forum goers, most will go ahead and purchase anyways.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
  13. Delicieuxz

    Delicieuxz Gawd

    Messages:
    959
    Joined:
    May 11, 2016
    Those aren't the correct figures:

    Valve uses a 3-tiers payment system that reduces the fee the more a game makes. For games that make $10 million or less, Valve takes 30%. For games that make between $10 million and $50 million, Valve takes 25%. For games that make over $50 million Valve takes 20%.

    Metro Exodus will easily clear the $50 million mark, probably many times over. So, Valve will be taking 20% of its sales.

    Metro Exodus was for sale on Steam for $60 USD, and is for sale on Epic for $50.


    20% of $60 = $12 fee = 4A / Deep Silver get $48 per $60 Steam copy sold

    12% of $50 = $6 = 4A / Deep Silver get $44 per $50 Epic copy sold


    That doesn't account for non North America sales of Metro Exodus, and ME is apparently more expensive on Epic store outside of NA.


    So, 4A and Deep Silver would actually make more from sales through Steam. Which is why it's clear that 4A and Deep Silver have been offered a large payment by Epic to make Metro Exodus exclusive to Epic store. Also, Epic's founder and owner, Tim Sweeney, has publicly said that Epic are paying for exclusives to "compete" (though if he was honest he'd say he was doing it to not compete, because not having to compete is precisely what securing an exclusive is about). So, it's pretty clear that's what's going on
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
    odditory and NuclearLemons like this.
  14. Staples

    Staples [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,803
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2001
    Why did I click on this thread? Perhaps I wanted to prove it would be what I figured it would. Lots of people bitching about it not being on Steam. Oh my.

    As I’ve said before. If installing another piece of software is too hard. Get out of PC gaming and move to console.
     
    GoldenTiger, Jim Kim, exlink and 2 others like this.
  15. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    15,447
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2005
    ContentFrequentAfricanclawedfrog-small.gif
     
    Conman, J3RK, Gorankar and 1 other person like this.
  16. tunatime

    tunatime 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,911
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    I buy lots of games all though steam or gog. If it's not on there I don't buy it. I don't own one EA game, ubsoft ect. Having all my games on steam is to convenient to worry about the few games not on it. If only 10% of gamers have my same vew they will lose a lot sales.

    Now big publishers like EA I can see having it's own store for it's own games. It's like wanting a Ford truck you go to a Ford dealership. But epic is like being forced to shop at Walmart to buy your dinner.
     
    J3RK and Darkstalker420 like this.
  17. NuclearLemons

    NuclearLemons [H]Lite

    Messages:
    104
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2017
    besides having to install uplay in order to play R6 i haven't touched another client in 5 years. i quickly unistalled it after i was done with the game though, it made my skin crawl.

    when i saw the whole exodus fiasco, ended up pre ordering it on steam. If i can't get it there with the rest of my collection. did i really want it anyway?

    That and my origin account got hacked.... twice so i'm not touching ea with a 10 foot pole.

    didn't like their games anyway. too many microtransactions.

    When you buy into a client, you are buying into that company, you are locked in for the ride. And i don't want tencent and the chinese goverment combing through my shit.
     
    tunatime and Darkstalker420 like this.
  18. tetris42

    tetris42 [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,518
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2014
    It makes you wonder how any of these people gamed back when you had to insert a CD and install the game individually for every single game. Just think, there was a launcher for every single game you played!
     
  19. limitedaccess

    limitedaccess [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,483
    Joined:
    May 10, 2010
    Really if you look at these same arguments in general it's a rehash of what happened with Steam being introduced.

    Fallout New Vegas was a forced steam title. Even if you bought a retail copy you had to activate and play it via Steam. Many other third party titles were like this.

    PC gaming didn't start or stop growing with Valve and their titles. Fortnite is the equivalent of Half-life/CS for quite a different generation of gamers. I'm pretty sure in 10-20 years those people are likewise going to go through the same complaints as something new comes along.
     
    GoldenTiger and Maddness like this.
  20. Exavior

    Exavior [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,654
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2005
    With how much some of these people bitch they should go to console as it will fix all their issues as consoles have a single friends list, single launcher and single store front.

    Although they all seem to be missing that they could buy the game through Epic then just add it to steam. and their issues are then resolved.
     
    GoldenTiger, Maddness and Staples like this.
  21. magoo

    magoo [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    14,350
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    I wonder if the game will sell on Greenman Gaming?

    Buy the key and activate it on Steam, problem solved.
     
  22. Budzman

    Budzman [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,033
    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2001
    Kids and the adults they become today want everything easy and handed to them. Just like how they want everything in life for free.

    People today are simply lazy.
     
    GoldenTiger and Maddness like this.
  23. RoxieToast

    RoxieToast n00b

    Messages:
    21
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2019
    That's an interesting perspective. A lot of kids probably got into gaming through Fortnite and are getting accustomed to the Epic Launcher and being invested with their accounts and all the things they bought. If the Epic Launcher keeps getting exclusives and some extra functionality it might actually be a decent competitor to steam because of the new generation.
     
    GoldenTiger likes this.
  24. dark_reign

    dark_reign 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,191
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
    I doubt they wait a year to add it back on Steam. Sales will be mediocre at best and they will come crawling back to Gaben within 6 months or less.
     
  25. Gorankar

    Gorankar [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,213
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2000
    Except, I never bought them. I played other online fps games instead. Believe as you wish. I never cared for the battlefield series, but would have likely bought Overwatch, Titanfall, and the later cod games had they not been origin only. I didn't want them more than my not wanting to continue having Origin on my PC.

    Same goes for Exodous. I have and loved the others, but will wait for it to come to Steam. If it never does, Oh well, it will drop off my radar.
     
  26. LurkerLito

    LurkerLito 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,123
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2007
    Don't count on it especially if they were paid by Epic to keep it exclusive because that means they signed a contract and will be held bound to it.

    Just to be clear, none of these stores ever take 20% of the profits, they take 20% of the gross. If they took their cut from the profits the companies could cheat them. That's why the term "Hollywood accounting" exists and all those actors who got a cut of the profits from a movie they were in got nothing or next to nothing.
     
    GoldenTiger and Delicieuxz like this.
  27. odditory

    odditory [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,447
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2007
    That's the point that seems to be getting overlooked by a lot of posts here.

    It's not simply about inconvenience of yet another launcher, it's about Epic's slimy approach of bribing a publisher to remove an existing title from another store. That's not increasing competition.

    That's why I'll never give Epic a dime.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
    tunatime likes this.
  28. J3RK

    J3RK [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,148
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
    I helped my dad assemble our first XT PC shortly before I picked up an Amiga, after owning a C64 since 1983. I know precisely what it's like to set jumpers, steal RAM chips off of one board to stuff another, move your IRQs and DMAs and port addresses of your mundane interfaces out of the way of your brand new sound card, etc. Try playing a 10-disk floppy version of Hero's Quest.

    So you were around back then too I take it? Answer me this, do you want to go back? I sure as fuck don't. (I'm glad I experienced it, but I definitely don't want to experience it again.)

    I've been enjoying a PC gaming renaissance since Steam eventually stabilized. Fuck putting a disc (or disk) in. To hell with buying things from 50 disparate stores. I've grown accustomed to having a nice, centralized, reliable, and flexible way to play my games. Now it's starting to get fucked up by all these new launchers and storefronts trying to decentralize everything. I don't mind MORE ways to buy something, but I do mind having the way that I CHOSE to buy something taken away buy some fuck-tard game company that want to be the next Valve. If they want to JOIN the storefronts great, if they want to remove the others in the process, that's ridiculous. Forcing exclusives is the latter, and I won't support it.

    How does being around in the "good old days" of PC gaming make any difference to this argument?

    Edit: Sorry, this whole situation just makes me pissy. :D
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
    dark_reign and odditory like this.
  29. Ramses

    Ramses [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,395
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    This is starting to be the cyber equivalent of there being a 7-11 across from every jiffy mart, or whatever those two drug stores are that are always diagonal from each other across an intersection.
     
  30. J3RK

    J3RK [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,148
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
    Except in that case, the Jiffy Mart didn't make it so 7-11 couldn't sell you a Snickers bar. The Jiffy Mart can't sell you a Slurpee TM, but that's because 7-11 created that. That part I'm ok with. (well, it's not ideal, but...) The Snickers part I am not.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
  31. katanaD

    katanaD [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,987
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2016
  32. Staples

    Staples [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,803
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2001
    I don't agree with you but at least you make a decent counter argument.

    There being several stores may be a slight inconvenience and a step back as you see it but signing up for a new account, installing and linking credit card info every few years as a new launcher comes out is such a minor issue. Nothing like having to switch out disks for every game.

    And on a side note.
    I have several launchers installed and ironically, I hate Steam the most. The reason is that it has to update every two days it seems. Most other launchers 1) do not update as often so I can get into games a lot quicker 2) update on close rather than forcing it at launch.
     
    GoldenTiger likes this.
  33. Darunion

    Darunion 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,755
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Steam for me at least crashes a bit too often or just disconnects and doesn't really let me know other than when I try to get invited to a game and get told I am offline.

    My opinion is, competition and choices are good, exclusivity is not.

    Steam isn't the end all anyways, I do hate when I don't pay enough attention and buy a game that then play it and it needs its own launcher installed.
     
  34. J3RK

    J3RK [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,148
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
    Yeah, the updating is kind of obnoxious, I will agree to that. Steam isn't perfect. I'm not arguing that it's perfect. It's just what I've invested in, and it's a part of my game process. I use GOG, but I don't use Galaxy. I just use it as an archive for my old favorite games.
     
  35. tetris42

    tetris42 [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,518
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2014
    It's not about wanting to go back, but not wanting monopolies. Spending 5 minutes to set up a new launcher is nothing to me, but some people are acting like it's the end of the damn world.

    You just said you want a centralized place to play all your games. Yeah, that's called a monopoly. If you can get all your games from Steam, why would you get them elsewhere? They have a 15 year headstart and massive marketshare advantage. Just because Steam is good TODAY, doesn't mean it won't get abused to hell and back.

    This issue is literally coming down to convenience v. market competition. You can either have all your PC games under one company, or you can have actual competition. You can't have both. It seems a lot of people here are simply upset there's actual marketplace competition as opposed to maximum convenience.
     
    GoldenTiger, sharknice and Maddness like this.
  36. Cmdrmonkey

    Cmdrmonkey Gawd

    Messages:
    1,013
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2004
    The other Metro games weren't even worth $5 and the bandwidth to download them. No big loss. It might have actually sold ok on Steam once it got cheap, but this is going to flop hard on Epic. The 12 year old kids who stole mommy's credit card to play Fortnite aren't going to have any interest in this game.
     
  37. J3RK

    J3RK [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,148
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
    I'm not arguing against competition at all. I think you might be confusing me with someone or some group that just happens to agree with me that this particular case isn't good for anyone.

    I'm all for different stores.

    I'm not for these shady sniping/poaching tactics pulling fake exclusives.

    I'm not saying it's not easy to sign up for other services. No arguments there. ME PERSONALLY: I don't want to (at least as little as possible). I don't like it. I want (and largely have) a centralized gaming experience for ME. That means I will use Steam. If you want to centralize your games (and I'm not saying you do, or care at all) then you could pick Epic, and go that route to do it. I'm not even saying that all these companies need to conform to what I want or how I do things. I will talk about how I think it should be though. Just part of discussing it.

    That is not a monopoly. That is selecting from choices available, but not having artificial barriers created by these companies. If Epic doesn't want to sell on Steam, fine. If Valve doesn't want to sell on Epic fine. (I don't even like that really, but I can't argue against it either.) But if you're neither Valve, nor Epic, and don't have your own storefront, then there is ZERO reason not to sell on both.

    At least, that makes sense to me.

    Furthermore, I really don't see why Valve couldn't allow their games to be sold on Epic's shop assuming they don't absolutely require Steam's interface, and the same for Epic's games on Steam. It makes me want to vomit that I won't be able to buy RAGE 2 on Steam, after being able to buy every other id game in history on Steam. That's just fucked IMO. But, whatever. Beth can do what it wants with its subsidiaries I suppose. I don't have to like it. Now if RAGE 2 was going to be on Steam or Epic's shop, then one of them made some deal, so that couldn't happen, then I'd be pissed again.

    The ideal situation would be for there to be a ton of full featured storefronts. Regardless of which company owns it, it has everyone's games on it. (for example Valve could separate its game entity from the fact that it also owns a shop) Not going to happen in reality, but that's kind of where I'm coming from. That way I could have my neat and tidy experience, and there's plenty of competition and money flying in all directions. That's not how things work, but it would be nice.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
  38. sharknice

    sharknice [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,672
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2012

    The exclusive deals Epic is making are necessary to establish a customer base so they can be competitive. If they don't do it they'll never gain the customer base necessary to compete with steam. You can't just magically poof in a competing platform.
     
    GoldenTiger likes this.
  39. limitedaccess

    limitedaccess [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,483
    Joined:
    May 10, 2010
    Would you be okay with the idea that you can only buy a voucher for a Snicker's bar at the Jiffy Mart but then having to go over to the 7-11 to claim said Snickers Bar?

    Because the equivalent has been happening with third party titles and Steam. Would you be okay with buying Metro on Steam but having to activate and play it through Epic?
     
    GoldenTiger likes this.
  40. J3RK

    J3RK [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,148
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
    Valve did it with their own games at first. Epic DID have a decent library of IP, but then decided to put all of their efforts into Fortnite. Arguably Epic has a bigger start though than Valve did. I realize the landscape has shifted, and yes, it does require a bit more oomph so to speak to start to compete with an established entity. However, GOG did it starting from almost nothing. EA and UBI did it with their own games. Not that either of those are great IMO.

    It's all messy. That's just the way it is. I still don't think an exclusive like this is good for anyone though. It's completely artificial. I don't have to like it, but hey, if you do, fine.