Mass Effect Legendary Edition

Colonel Sanders

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M76

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This small resolution video makes the old one look much better than it actually looks. This is like trying to showcase the benefits of oled on a first gen tft lcd.
 

Dan_D

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The temptation is just too high to change it. Look at Mafia Definitive Edition. It was supposed to be a faithful remake, yet they couldn't help themselves they ruined the narrative and dialogue, changed the characters, cut content that wasn't for the lowest common denominator. Made changes to the story for the sake of it that adds nothing of value, instead takes away from it.

This is why I said what I said about a remake. The BioWare of today isn't what it was when the Mass Effect trilogy was made. Hell, that BioWare didn't make it all the way through to the end of the trilogy. Andromeda was infested with the woke BS, and changing camera angles in ME3's Legendary version is a small sample of what the studio would do if they had it in the budget to do a total remake. You can bet Shepard would be neutered, not white, everyone would be gay or bisexual, and lose some or all of what made the original games so great. How do we know this? To some degree you can see it in the Andromeda protagonists who are watered down and neutered compared to Shepard.

A reboot / remake of the trilogy would be worse.
 

Colonel Sanders

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This is why I said what I said about a remake. The BioWare of today isn't what it was when the Mass Effect trilogy was made. Hell, that BioWare didn't make it all the way through to the end of the trilogy. Andromeda was infested with the woke BS, and changing camera angles in ME3's Legendary version is a small sample of what the studio would do if they had it in the budget to do a total remake. You can bet Shepard would be neutered, not white, everyone would be gay or bisexual, and lose some or all of what made the original games so great. How do we know this? To some degree you can see it in the Andromeda protagonists who are watered down and neutered compared to Shepard.

A reboot / remake of the trilogy would be worse.
i hope they add gay romance options just so you get triggered and blow your lid.
 

Armenius

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i hope they add gay romance options just so you get triggered and blow your lid.
They added homosexual romance options in ME2 and continued that with ME3. I have no issue with those since the characters were all well-written. i.e. their sexuality wasn't their defining characteristic. But to rewrite a character like Ashley into something "gender fluid" would be completely opposite of who she is.
 

M76

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They added homosexual romance options in ME2 and continued that with ME3. I have no issue with those since the characters were all well-written. i.e. their sexuality wasn't their defining characteristic. But to rewrite a character like Ashley into something "gender fluid" would be completely opposite of who she is.
It could be argued that it's not gender fluid, just a different version of the character depending on your character choice.
 
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Colonel Sanders

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They added homosexual romance options in ME2 and continued that with ME3. I have no issue with those since the characters were all well-written. i.e. their sexuality wasn't their defining characteristic. But to rewrite a character like Ashley into something "gender fluid" would be completely opposite of who she is.
of course they aren't going to change anything like that. they won't touch a line of dialogue or any characterization. my point was that it's really dumb to get all spazzy about """"wokeness"""" because a) there's already """"wokeness"""" in the trilogy and b) they aren't going to touch a damn thing (it's too much work but primarily they understand it's not the type of thing you change in a remaster of a beloved series.)
 

Dan_D

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i hope they add gay romance options just so you get triggered and blow your lid.

You misunderstand what I said completely. You do know, it's possible to dislike and disagree with all this fake woke shit and have no issues with homosexuality right? Besides that, Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3 already have gay romance options. ME1 actually has them too and they are fully voiced. The difference is that BioWare decided to disable them at the last moment because the game caught a bunch of shit over FemShep being able to romance Liara, and the game being "pornographic." (Which is obviously not true.)

In my opinion, if they aren't doing a full on remake, then they shouldn't change anything about the game (perhaps ME3's endings, but that's another discussion). That being said, I don't care so much about them changing the camera angles so that we aren't starring at Miranda's ass the entire time. As much as I like looking at a well crafted digital ass, the fact is the camera angles were ridiculous and I was fully aware of that from day one. My point is that were they to do a full on remake, the likely hood of the developer changing a ton of crap would be extremely high. Given "modern sensibilities" that wouldn't bode well for the remakes.
 

Colonel Sanders

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You misunderstand what I said completely. You do know, it's possible to dislike and disagree with all this fake woke shit and have no issues with homosexuality right? Besides that, Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3 already have gay romance options. ME1 actually has them too and they are fully voiced. The difference is that BioWare decided to disable them at the last moment because the game caught a bunch of shit over FemShep being able to romance Liara, and the game being "pornographic." (Which is obviously not true.)

I know, that's what I said in an above post. It's already in there so the fear of the games going "woke" just sounded funny to me.

I know this belongs in soapbox, but I'mma say this one last thing... the "I have no issues with homosexuality, just don't put it in the games I want to play" is a hilarious comment that I see all too often.

I wonder if the team working on this remaster discussed putting any of the cut content back in, especially the gay romance options for Kaiden or Ashley. If they even discussed it, they probably shot it down immediately because they knew people would REEEEEEEEEEEEE to the fucking moon about it.

Anyway, like I said, none of this matters because they aren't changing any of this stuff.
 
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Mchart

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I know, that's what I said in an above post. It's already in there so the fear of the games going "woke" just sounded funny to me.

I know this belongs in soapbox, but I'mma say this one last thing... the "I have no issues with homosexuality, just don't put it in the games I want to play" is a hilarious comment that I see all too often.

Anyway, like I said, none of this matters because they aren't changing any of this stuff.
You don’t understand the comment. No one has any issue with homosexuality, trans, etc. The issue is when every main character in the game is homosexual, and for whatever reason it’s the main focus of every interaction. It’s just shitty writing at that point.
 

Colonel Sanders

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You don’t understand the comment. No one has any issue with homosexuality, trans, etc. The issue is when every main character in the game is homosexual, and for whatever reason it’s the main focus of every interaction. It’s just shitty writing at that point.
Show me one example where "every main character is gay" and "it's the main focus of every interaction." That's such a crazy statement to make.
 

Dan_D

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I know, that's what I said in an above post. It's already in there so the fear of the games going "woke" just sounded funny to me.

I know this belongs in soapbox, but I'mma say this one last thing... the "I have no issues with homosexuality, just don't put it in the games I want to play" is a hilarious comment that I see all too often.

That's not what I said. If you had more carefully read what I said, you might have understood that. "Woke BS" isn't the same thing as homosexuality. I don't care that there are homosexual relationships in the Mass Effect games. If I did I wouldn't have played ME3 this much:

1612565899426.png


Try again.

Talia al Ghul from Arkham City gives her a run for the money...
That she does.
 

Colonel Sanders

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That's not what I said. If you had more carefully read what I said, you might have understood that. "Woke BS" isn't the same thing as homosexuality. I don't care that there are homosexual relationships in the Mass Effect games. If I did I wouldn't have played ME3 this much:

View attachment 326493

Try again.


That she does.

I know the response to this is just going to be "nuh uh!" but if the Mass Effect trilogy had come out, say +6 years later (for each), people would have been crying about the same sex romances ad nauseum. It's less about the game and more about the moment (or zeitgeist, if you will.) It's just like how people who loved Star Trek (pre-Star Trek 09) will retroactively claim that Star Trek has actually been about conservative/non-woke ideals all along because admitting otherwise would clash too strongly with the way they feel today about those "liberal" messages. It's not about the content or message of the shows anymore but rather the lense of the moment they are viewed in... the same can be said about games, though admittedly there's a shorter window and a smaller sample size.

The retort will be "but the same sex romances in Mass Effect were done correctly and with 'good writing.'"
 

Mchart

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I know the response to this is just going to be "nuh uh!" but if the Mass Effect trilogy had come out, say +6 years later (for each), people would have been crying about the same sex romances ad nauseum. It's less about the game and more about the moment (or zeitgeist, if you will.) It's just like how people who loved Star Trek (pre-Star Trek 09) will retroactively claim that Star Trek has actually been about conservative/non-woke ideals all along because admitting otherwise would clash too strongly with the way they feel today about those "liberal" messages. It's not about the content or message of the shows anymore but rather the lense of the moment they are viewed in... the same can be said about games, though admittedly there's a shorter window and a smaller sample size.

The retort will be "but the same sex romances in Mass Effect were done correctly and with 'good writing.'"
You really do love going out of your way to invent a framework in your mind about people. If you can’t see how crap the writing has gotten in the entertainment industry over the past decade while using identity as a crutch, you really aren’t being objective about this.
 

Colonel Sanders

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You really do love going out of your way to invent a framework in your mind about people. If you can’t see how crap the writing has gotten in the entertainment industry over the past decade while using identity as a crutch, you really aren’t being objective about this.
I'll note you still haven't answered my question and provided an example of what you described as the problem with wokeness in modern gaming (specifically as you described it.)

edit: I feel like I should make it clear that I'm not sitting here vociferously defending wokeness... I'm trying to dissect the interestingly bisected judgements between Mass Effect's wokeness (in the pre-Gamergate era) and the "modern" take on the subject.
 
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horrorshow

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This is a Day One purchase for me....

- Especially after "tolerating" the original Mass Effect on Xbox 360
 

cybereality

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I only ever played ME1 on 360. Been a while, and I never played the sequels, so I'll definitely pick this one up.
 

Dan_D

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I know the response to this is just going to be "nuh uh!" but if the Mass Effect trilogy had come out, say +6 years later (for each), people would have been crying about the same sex romances ad nauseum. It's less about the game and more about the moment (or zeitgeist, if you will.) It's just like how people who loved Star Trek (pre-Star Trek 09) will retroactively claim that Star Trek has actually been about conservative/non-woke ideals all along because admitting otherwise would clash too strongly with the way they feel today about those "liberal" messages. It's not about the content or message of the shows anymore but rather the lense of the moment they are viewed in... the same can be said about games, though admittedly there's a shorter window and a smaller sample size.

The retort will be "but the same sex romances in Mass Effect were done correctly and with 'good writing.'"

You've got that completely backwards. If Mass Effect had come out later just as it is, people would lambast it for its white male gaze, being oversexualized, or some such other stupid shit. Let's get one thing very clear, the original Mass Effect trilogy isn't woke. It's characters, both male and female (primarily female) are all idealized and highly sexualized. Jack runs around with leather straps that cover her nipples and nothing else even remotely resembling a shirt. Samara's got cleavage for days and wears a form fitting "armor" that shows off her figure. Miranda's outfit is basically painted on. Many of the other female characters fall into this oversexualized stereo type to some degree or another at some point in the game. Even Tali has a fairly form fitting suit with some of her assets accentuated. Even the males are prone to the same thing. They are all chiseled, athletic, and basically look like greek sculptures or fitness models. Hardly what you'd call woke.

Adding player choice is never a bad thing and the inclusion of same sex romances was never a problem. It's one of the many design choices that helped give the player choice in how their Shepard was shaped. It's the reason why fans of Mass Effect can be so rabid and why they felt betrayed by the original endings in ME3. It's the deep personal connection players had with their Shepard. Its one of the many things that elevated Mass Effect to a level all its own and why the series is treated as a classic. At the time, no other series had given players so much agency over how the character developed or how it played. Mechanically, the game always came down to a binary option at the end to make it compatible with the next installment. But, each play through felt a little different. Each Shepard feels unique and more personal than other game characters tend to be. But, you have to understand that liberal or inclusiveness aren't necessarily "woke". I'm not going to get into this because this thread would get soapboxed immediately, but the Mass Effect trilogy was never woke. Including a gay or lesbian option for relationships isn't woke in itself.

And yes, I will say absolutely that the Trilogy is generally well written. And I had no problem with the inclusion of same sex romances in the game. You are the one who insinuated that I did without having any evidence to back that up. And one thing I know better than Mass Effect, is Star Trek. Star Trek, has always been progressive. However, it does reflect the times it was made in. The original series may seem conservative by today's standards, but in 1967 it sure as hell wasn't. Believe me, as someone who lived through the Reagan era of the 1980's, (the conservative golden age) Next Generation is pretty liberal as well. Berman era Trek was made to be somewhat non-offensive as they didn't want to alienate any of their audience, so it wasn't always as sexually liberal as it could have been. But it takes place in a post scarcity world where the idealism portrayed in the show might theoretically work. Generally, even conservatives don't have a problem with that because in Star Trek's case, it was appealing to a wide demographic who saw a world and thought, "that would be great to live in." Modern Trek is a different story and an example of what happens when political messaging and ideology takes priority over good story telling. In any event, its not relevant beyond the fact that you brought up Star Trek.

You really do love going out of your way to invent a framework in your mind about people. If you can’t see how crap the writing has gotten in the entertainment industry over the past decade while using identity as a crutch, you really aren’t being objective about this.

That he does. I never indicated I had an issue with homosexuality in games or anything of the sort. I am against woke BS, but he seems to think those two are one and the same, and they aren't.

I'll note you still haven't answered my question and provided an example of what you described as the problem with wokeness in modern gaming (specifically as you described it.)

edit: I feel like I should make it clear that I'm not sitting here vociferously defending wokeness... I'm trying to dissect the interestingly bisected judgements between Mass Effect's wokeness (in the pre-Gamergate era) and the "modern" take on the subject.

You seem to have reading comprehension problems. Mchart specifically referenced entertainment in general, not necessarily gaming. I can give you plenty of examples of wokeness in modern entertainment, but not so much in gaming beyond the slight influence it had on a few titles like Andromeda. Again, the Mass Effect trilogy wasn't ever "woke." Even taking out the butt shots won't change that.

https://www.pcgamer.com/au/mass-effect-legendary-edition-will-cut-back-on-the-butt-shots/

Just rename it the Political Correctness edition already, only reason I would replay it is to see Miranda's butt shots remastered in 4K.

Honestly, as much as I liked those ass shots they were ridiculous. Even I knew it at the time. I wouldn't call it political correctness if that's all they do to it. BioWare has to tread lightly here though. BioWare always said that changing the shitty endings violated the game's (ME3) artistic integrity or some such nonsense. If they start changing a bunch of stuff because people want them to or because they want to pander to the woke crowd (which makes no sense, they aren't the people that play games like this), then that argument fails miserably.
 

Blade-Runner

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Honestly, as much as I liked those ass shots they were ridiculous. Even I knew it at the time. I wouldn't call it political correctness if that's all they do to it. BioWare has to tread lightly here though. BioWare always said that changing the shitty endings violated the game's (ME3) artistic integrity or some such nonsense. If they start changing a bunch of stuff because people want them to or because they want to pander to the woke crowd (which makes no sense, they aren't the people that play games like this), then that argument fails miserably.

The whole premise of the game is ridiculous, the lurid camera shots were fun and no more awkward than the sex scenes which were utter cringe. I am willing to bet there are going to be much more extensive changes to pander to the woketards, publishers like EA keep proving time and time again that they are happy to engage in that form of virtue signalling to appeal to an audience that aren't likely to be paying customers.
 

Colonel Sanders

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You seem to have reading comprehension problems. Mchart specifically referenced entertainment in general, not necessarily gaming. I can give you plenty of examples of wokeness in modern entertainment, but not so much in gaming beyond the slight influence it had on a few titles like Andromeda. Again, the Mass Effect trilogy wasn't ever "woke." Even taking out the butt shots won't change that.
Respectfully, it is you who has reading comprehension problems. I was referring to Mchart's comment here:

You don’t understand the comment. No one has any issue with homosexuality, trans, etc. The issue is when every main character in the game is homosexual, and for whatever reason it’s the main focus of every interaction. It’s just shitty writing at that point.
I asked him to give me an example of a game where "every character in the game is homosexual" and "it's the focus of every interaction." There's no response because Mchart knows that statement is ridiculous.

And taking the butt shots out is stupid. Nobody cares about it. All they're doing is giving ammo to the outrage addicts who cannot go 5 minutes without having something to bitch and moan about. They're the ones always going off about "sensitive snowflakes" getting "offended over nothing" when they should look in the mirror and look at the constant crying and screeching over the stupidest fucking things.

Anyhoo, I'm going to drop the topic in the interest of following the trilogy remaster's progress...
 
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Dan_D

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Respectfully, it is you who has reading comprehension problems. I was referring to Mchart's comment here:

Fair enough concerning Mchart's comment. However, you have consistently misunderstood what I've said when I have been very plain about what I meant.

I asked him to give me an example of a game where "every character in the game is homosexual" and "it's the focus of every interaction." There's no response because Mchart knows that statement is ridiculous.

And taking the butt shots out is stupid. Nobody cares about it. All they're doing is giving ammo to the outrage addicts who cannot go 5 minutes without having something to bitch and moan about. They're the ones always going off about "sensitive snowflakes" getting "offended over nothing" when they should look in the mirror and look at the constant crying and screeching over the stupidest fucking things.

Anyhoo, I'm going to drop the topic in the interest of following the trilogy remaster's progress...

Fair enough, I wouldn't speak for him, but he might be referencing the fact that these characters can be made homosexual? I'm not sure on that one. You can technically make Shepard, V or any number of protagonists in multiple games gay or lesbian if you wish to. I'm not sure if that's what he's referencing or not. I can't imagine it would be anything else, but I'll leave that to him.

As for the butt shots, I agree. Taking them out is stupid simply because of the reasoning behind it, regardless of how ridiculous they were to begin with. The thing is, BioWare drew attention to it by publicly talking about that change. Had they not done so, many people who haven't touched the game in years probably wouldn't have ever noticed the difference. I would have, but honestly wouldn't have cared so long as that's all they changed. That said, outrage and controversy have been a part of the advertising for each game in the series, Andromeda not withstanding.
 

Colonel Sanders

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As for the butt shots, I agree. Taking them out is stupid simply because of the reasoning behind it, regardless of how ridiculous they were to begin with. The thing is, BioWare drew attention to it by publicly talking about that change. Had they not done so, many people who haven't touched the game in years probably wouldn't have ever noticed the difference.
I totally agree.. it was a really stupid idea to even mention that. The developer they interviewed must have been living under a rock for the past ~7 years. All it takes is a small story like this to fucking torpedo a game's launch once the anti-SJW/anti-woke crowd builds up steam. Hopefully this will be the last thing we hear about changes like this.
 

M76

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I'm not sitting here vociferously defending wokeness...
Yet you are doing exactly that by claiming that star trek was always "woke"
Star trek was progressive and explored ideas that were considered taboo by everyone else, but that is not the same as being woke.

Modern star trek says you must love this character because he's gay. Old Star Trek says here is a really great guy, oh and he also happens to be gay, but never mind that, as it's not what you should be judging the character by.

Old Star Trek built up characters based on their deeds and personality and not their group identity. New Star Trek demands we love the present characters because of their group identities. The more victim cards they hold the more we must love them, regardless of how utterly shallow and stereotypical the character is.
 

M76

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The developer they interviewed must have been living under a rock for the past ~7 years. All it takes is a small story like this to fucking torpedo a game's launch once the anti-SJW/anti-woke crowd builds up steam. Hopefully this will be the last thing we hear about changes like this.
It was Mac Walters, one of the lead writers and directors of the original triology. I think that response is a calculated effort to generate controversy and buzz around the remake. Nothing accidental about that.
 

M76

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You've got that completely backwards. If Mass Effect had come out later just as it is, people would lambast it for its white male gaze, being oversexualized, or some such other stupid shit. Let's get one thing very clear, the original Mass Effect trilogy isn't woke. It's characters, both male and female (primarily female) are all idealized and highly sexualized. Jack runs around with leather straps that cover her nipples and nothing else even remotely resembling a shirt. Samara's got cleavage for days and wears a form fitting "armor" that shows off her figure. Miranda's outfit is basically painted on. Many of the other female characters fall into this oversexualized stereo type to some degree or another at some point in the game. Even Tali has a fairly form fitting suit with some of her assets accentuated. Even the males are prone to the same thing. They are all chiseled, athletic, and basically look like greek sculptures or fitness models. Hardly what you'd call woke.
There are actually plenty of things in Mass Effect that can be considered woke, we just didn't mind them all that much because there were no youtube hatemongers back then to point them out.

Here is a video, by a now banned anti-sjw youtuber exploring the wokeness of the original triology. He makes some good points, even if I don't agree with him about most things, I concede that yes, there is wokeness in Mass Effect.

I was always saying that both the anti-woke crowd and the woke crowd are unreasonable. One gets triggered by even seeing a gay character, like their outrage that they cannot romance Judy in CP2077, or over the Ellie Dina farm scene in TLOU2. The other group claims you are sexist and how dare you want good looking characters in games. They are both the same type of crazy just at the opposite end of the spectrum.
 

Derangel

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There are actually plenty of things in Mass Effect that can be considered woke, we just didn't mind them all that much because there were no youtube hatemongers back then to point them out.

Here is a video, by a now banned anti-sjw youtuber exploring the wokeness of the original triology. He makes some good points, even if I don't agree with him about most things, I concede that yes, there is wokeness in Mass Effect.

I was always saying that both the anti-woke crowd and the woke crowd are unreasonable. One gets triggered by even seeing a gay character, like their outrage that they cannot romance Judy in CP2077, or over the Ellie Dina farm scene in TLOU2. The other group claims you are sexist and how dare you want good looking characters in games. They are both the same type of crazy just at the opposite end of the spectrum.

Despite all the other issues with that game, the farm scenes with Ellie and Dina are legit some of the best writing I've seen in games in a loooong time. Pity the game had to keep going after that.

On the subject of "Wokeness" in Mass Effect. There really isn't THAT much. At least not if you want to describe "woke" as something put in purely for the purpose of giving a lazy image of progress. A lot of the more progressive ideology of the universe is well constructed, well written, and explained through codex entries and does not often feel "lazy" or done solely to get attention from certain crowds.
 

Dan_D

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On the subject of "Wokeness" in Mass Effect. There really isn't THAT much. At least not if you want to describe "woke" as something put in purely for the purpose of giving a lazy image of progress. A lot of the more progressive ideology of the universe is well constructed, well written, and explained through codex entries and does not often feel "lazy" or done solely to get attention from certain crowds.

Well said.
 

M76

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On the subject of "Wokeness" in Mass Effect. There really isn't THAT much. At least not if you want to describe "woke" as something put in purely for the purpose of giving a lazy image of progress. A lot of the more progressive ideology of the universe is well constructed, well written, and explained through codex entries and does not often feel "lazy" or done solely to get attention from certain crowds.
Have you watched the video I've linked? I probably would've said the same thing before I saw that.

I never considered wokeness as progress, au contraire it's regression to our tribalist roots.
 

Dan_D

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Have you watched the video I've linked? I probably would've said the same thing before I saw that.

I never considered wokeness as progress, au contraire it's regression to our tribalist roots.

I can think for myself. While the guy makes some valid points, I think he's looking at the game through a modern lens and not the way they were perceived at the time they launched, nor the times they were released in. The trilogy can only be viewed as woke by someone looking at it through a modern lens of sorts. That's not how the games were viewed when they originally released. Even if you give the game credit for its progressive messaging being ahead of its time, it would win points for subtlety, which is something modern woke "entertainment" doesn't do. And any progressive messaging in the game is overshadowed by an abundance of tits, asses, gratuitous camera angles, violence, etc. There is dialog from one NPC who goes on and on about Asari breasts getting bigger as they age. Calling the game "woke" in the wake of far more pervasive and obvious sexual content is a stretch. Over 10 years ago, we had never heard the term "woke" and games used sex appeal to sell more copies. It was as simple as that. I know these games plenty well (probably better than the person who wrote / narrated that video I'd be willing to wager) and wouldn't say they are woke. Andromeda is to an extent, though it gets more shit for this than it deserves. Frankly, while I enjoyed Andromeda, it has bigger problems than it's "wokeness" which I will admit did drag the quality of the game down a little. However, its a minor offense compared to other aspects of the game's design.

Yes, the trilogy has plenty of progressive messaging in it, but that's not the same as what's getting shoveled down people's throats via the woke agenda. The woke crap is rabid fanaticism hidden behind a veil of progressive ideology. "Wokeness" is destructive and divisive by nature as it seeks to right the perceived (real or imagined) injustices against one group by committing acts of injustice against another. It isn't about equality for anyone. Where it pertains to media, we've seen the quality of writing take an almost universal dive in the last several years in games, TV, movies, etc. The reason why I say it infests and has ruined a considerable amount of modern entertainment is because the messaging and themes take priority and come at the cost of good storytelling. The stories aren't good because they aren't the focus.

This is NOT what the trilogy is about in any way shape or form. Yes, it's filled with progressive ideology and messaging. It's progressive and inclusive in a similar way that Star Trek used to be, but that isn't the same as being "woke." You can even argue that in the first game, the relationship option between FemShep and Liara was an extension of the game's sexualized themes. The vast majority of people who play these games are men and BioWare damn well knew that. It allows guys to look at two women get it on in a game for about 30 seconds. It wasn't about being progressive. The "monogender" line that Liara has about her species is clearly BioWare not fully committing to a same sex relationship as part of the game's context, leaving them an "out" or excuse of sorts. Someone being an alien and not counting quite the same as a human goes all the way back to classic Star Trek in the 1960's. Mass Effect takes influences off many science fiction franchises, hence similar tactics and themes we saw in Star Trek. The game was well received and it turned out that the semi-same sex relationship wasn't really a big deal. Other players asked for same gay male romance options and they were finally added in ME3. It was about giving customers what they were asking for. It's the same as making Garrus and Tali romanceable in Mass Effect 2. They weren't originally as BioWare didn't figure anyone would want that.
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
11,910
I can think for myself.
Thinking for yourself shouldn't mean refusing to entertain or even hear other points of view.
While the guy makes some valid points,
That is exactly why I've linked the video, which I've said in the post. You might be able to think, but your ability to read seriously comes into question now :p

"He makes some good points, even if I don't agree with him about most things, I concede that yes, there is wokeness in Mass Effect"

I think he's looking at the game through a modern lens and not the way they were perceived at the time they launched, nor the times they were released in. The trilogy can only be viewed as woke by someone looking at it through a modern lens of sorts. That's not how the games were viewed when they originally released.
Well that was exactly my point. Were you really not reading my post? it could not have been viewed as woke in 2008 because the phrase "woke" didn't even have the same meaning then.

Even if you give the game credit for its progressive messaging being ahead of its time, it would win points for subtlety, which is something modern woke "entertainment" doesn't do.
Yet even games that present progressive ideas with subtlety combined with good writing gets dragged through the mud nowadays. So I'm pretty sure if Mass Effect was released today it would be picked on by the anti-woke mob. But I don't like to use the phrase anti-woke on them, because I'm anti-woke too, the difference is that I'm not offended by the mere presence of gayness or females in positions of power.
And any progressive messaging in the game is overshadowed by an abundance of tits, asses, gratuitous camera angles, violence, etc. There is dialog from one NPC who goes on and on about Asari breasts getting bigger as they age. Calling the game "woke" in the wake of far more pervasive and obvious sexual content is a stretch. Over 10 years ago, we had never heard the term "woke" and games used sex appeal to sell more copies. It was as simple as that. I know these games plenty well (probably better than the person who wrote / narrated that video I'd be willing to wager) and wouldn't say they are woke. Andromeda is to an extent, though it gets more shit for this than it deserves. Frankly, while I enjoyed Andromeda, it has bigger problems than it's "wokeness" which I will admit did drag the quality of the game down a little. However, its a minor offense compared to other aspects of the game's design.
It's good that you bring up Andromeda because the wokeness in it is far from being pervasive, Yet it was called woke trash when it released, which kind of proves my point that if the original triology was released later it would've been perceived as woke. With this I'm not trying to prove that the original Mass Effect was trash, I'm trying to show that public perception is seriously biased nowadays. Even the slightest progressive element is taken as an offence by a very vocal and rapidly growing group. Imagine the video I linked getting released when ME just came out! It would be enough for this group to label Mass Effect as woke and avoid it completely.
Yes, the trilogy has plenty of progressive messaging in it, but that's not the same as what's getting shoveled down people's throats via the woke agenda. The woke crap is rabid fanaticism hidden behind a veil of progressive ideology. "Wokeness" is destructive and divisive by nature as it seeks to right the perceived (real or imagined) injustices against one group by committing acts of injustice against another. It isn't about equality for anyone. Where it pertains to media, we've seen the quality of writing take an almost universal dive in the last several years in games, TV, movies, etc. The reason why I say it infests and has ruined a considerable amount of modern entertainment is because the messaging and themes take priority and come at the cost of good storytelling. The stories aren't good because they aren't the focus.
Care to give examples of this "being shoveled down people's throats" from the gaming industry? I mean games that were made unfit for consumption by wokeness? I can certainly see wokeness ruining comic books (I'm not a fan of those so I must take others word for it) and TV. But I can't name games that were ruined by their wokeness, that otherwise would've been great.
This is NOT what the trilogy is about in any way shape or form. Yes, it's filled with progressive ideology and messaging. It's progressive and inclusive in a similar way that Star Trek used to be,
Well I don't see most new games any differently. The only change I notice is more female main characters, which I welcome, and more "diversity" in NPC skin color, which I don't give a damn about.
but that isn't the same as being "woke." You can even argue that in the first game, the relationship option between FemShep and Liara was an extension of the game's sexualized themes. The vast majority of people who play these games are men and BioWare damn well knew that. It allows guys to look at two women get it on in a game for about 30 seconds. It wasn't about being progressive. The "monogender" line that Liara has about her species is clearly BioWare not fully committing to a same sex relationship as part of the game's context, leaving them an "out" or excuse of sorts.
Yet that is exactly how it would be interpreted by the banner bearers of antiwokeness today. I mean I've seen them interpret the ability to switch the main character's gender in AC:Valhalla as an attempt to erase differences between the sexes. I couldn't make this shit up if I wanted.
 
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Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
4,970
So they are dropping the pinnical dlc, and focusing on camera angles in their marketing campaign*.

Yeah, this is gonna turn out amazing.

*I also see the camera changes have had the desired effect of stirring the 'woke' conversation so they have a scape goat to blame when they release a buggy, unfinished, sloppy port al'la EA style.
 
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Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
57,923
Thinking for yourself shouldn't mean refusing to entertain or even hear other points of view.

That is exactly why I've linked the video, which I've said in the post. You might be able to think, but your ability to read seriously comes into question now :p
You linked a video, so that statement totally makes sense. :rolleyes:
"He makes some good points, even if I don't agree with him about most things, I concede that yes, there is wokeness in Mass Effect"
That is not what the fuck I said. If you are going to quote me, do it accurately. I didn't say that at all. Again, "progressive" and "woke" aren't the same fucking things. It's you who seems to be having trouble reading. You have trouble with the quote function on the forum apparently.
Well that was exactly my point. Were you really not reading my post? it could not have been viewed as woke in 2008 because the phrase "woke" didn't even have the same meaning then.
That's exactly my point. This guy is viewing it through a modern lens, but more than that he is confusing progressive messaging with wokeness. The two are not the same. I don't know how I can be any clearer about that. Progressive ideology is one thing. These "woke" assholes and the agenda they are pushing is entirely different and counter to what they claim to hold dear. These are people that want to right perceived injustice with more injustice. These are the people who think syrup is racist and climate change is due to systemic racism.
Yet even games that present progressive ideas with subtlety combined with good writing gets dragged through the mud nowadays. So I'm pretty sure if Mass Effect was released today it would be picked on by the anti-woke mob. But I don't like to use the phrase anti-woke on them, because I'm anti-woke too, the difference is that I'm not offended by the mere presence of gayness or females in positions of power.
This is a fair point.
It's good that you bring up Andromeda because the wokeness in it is far from being pervasive, Yet it was called woke trash when it released, which kind of proves my point that if the original triology was released later it would've been perceived as woke. With this I'm not trying to prove that the original Mass Effect was trash, I'm trying to show that public perception is seriously biased nowadays. Even the slightest progressive element is taken as an offence by a very vocal and rapidly growing group. Imagine the video I linked getting released when ME just came out! It would be enough for this group to label Mass Effect as woke and avoid it completely.
You won't get any disagreement from me on that.
Care to give examples of this "being shoveled down people's throats" from the gaming industry? I mean games that were made unfit for consumption by wokeness? I can certainly see wokeness ruining comic books (I'm not a fan of those so I must take others word for it) and TV. But I can't name games that were ruined by their wokeness, that otherwise would've been great.
You really are having trouble with reading today. I did not give any examples of it in gaming because I have no examples to give. Certainly nothing first hand. The games I've played recently do not have examples of wokeness in them. Ghost Recon Breakpoint doesn't have it, Cyberpunk 2077 doesn't have it, Destiny 2's creators are certainly "woke" but the game itself doesn't really have any of that in it. Doom Eternal? Not there either. I'm not going to give examples of games that are supposedly infested with wokeness that I've only heard about second or third hand. I remember people saying the same shit about Andromeda and I played it for myself, and while I saw a few examples of that sort of thing, it was hardly the woke dumpster fire people claimed it was. Again, I'd rather only work off of first hand experience on that and with games, I don't have it.
Well I don't see most new games any differently. The only change I notice is more female main characters, which I welcome, and more "diversity" in NPC skin color, which I don't give a damn about.
I don't care about this.
Yet that is exactly how it would be interpreted by the banner bearers of antiwokeness today. I mean I've seen them interpret the ability to switch the main character's gender in AC:Valhalla as an attempt to erase differences between the sexes. I couldn't make this shit up if I wanted.
Yes, I've heard that as well.
 

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
57,923
So they are dropping the pinnical dlc, and focusing on camera angles in their marketing campaign*.

Yeah, this is gonna turn out amazing.

*I also see the camera changes have had the desired effect of stirring the 'woke' conversation so they have a scape goat to blame when they release a buggy, unfinished, sloppy port al'la EA style.

Well, they have no choice but to drop Pinnacle Station. Demiurge lost the source files. The camera angles do stir the pot, but that's not an indicator the game will be buggy and unfinished. All they are doing is retexturing the game. I have done that myself, its not that hard and the games were already pretty solid on a technical level.
 
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