Mass Effect 3 SPOILERS THREAD

[Damar]

This is a bit long winded and loaded with spoilers, but I watched through it and I agree with most of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUqAhKW7498

I love his idea of fighting Harbinger on the ground.

 

[KickAssCop]

Nice thread. Will visit again after finishing ME3...

 

[CrimsonKnight13]

What was everyone's take regarding Sanctuary, the Monastery, & Tuchanka's ancient city?

I hated that I couldn't explore the beauty of Sanctuary & the mystery of Tuchanka's ancient city (non-combat exploration). The feeling of the monastery wasn't very strong when I was there.

I'm not sure why BioWare limited exploration so much. I know it's pretty much an action RPG, lacking the option to explore really puts a dent in ME3's replayability regarding the RPG element. I know a lot of people hated the vehicle exploration but being able to see more on foot has yet to be seen. BioWare likes doing games in extremes.

Does anyone else feel this way?

 

[mas]

yea agree the amount of interaction cut out of this game is just terrible, that's the price of success and fixing your standards to the lowest common denominator. before we used to actually speak to npcs to get quests and backstory, now you just run from one end of the room to the other and all of a sudden you have 5 random quests in your log, with an absolute minimum description and no updates on progress whatsoever.

where did they come from? what's this about? who knows! just fetch this and report back to the designated marker.

 

[CrimsonKnight13]

yea agree the amount of interaction cut out of this game is just terrible, that's the price of success and fixing your standards to the lowest common denominator. before we used to actually speak to npcs to get quests and backstory, now you just run from one end of the room to the other and all of a sudden you have 5 random quests in your log, with an absolute minimum description and no updates on progress whatsoever.

where did they come from? what's this about? who knows! just fetch this and report back to the designated marker.

Go fetch crap & avoid Reapers while doing it... Pretty stupid. I just reloaded a system when I couldn't find everything I would up getting 100% discovery everytime. Too simple for me & I really wanted to explore some ruins or buildings to gain those items. At least ME2 had you searching for crap in derelict ships & such...

 

[MorgothPl]

What was everyone's take regarding Sanctuary, the Monastery, & Tuchanka's ancient city?

I loved Tuchanka. The death of Mordin is IMO most climatic moment of ME3. Seeing him riding upstairs saying "Pity, would love to examine seashells", which refers to one of his earlier conversation with Shepard on how he sees his retirement, really shows the sacrifice done to fight Reapers.

 

[J W]

I actually loitered around quite a bit. I didn't mind overhearing conversations to get minor quests. What's strange to me is when there's a guy randomly standing around who needs something done urgently. He'll wait and wait till you finally go talk to him. A lot of games do it that way, unfortunately.

Though, "fetch quests" are definitely weak. I still wish there would have been some sort of gambling system like Pazaak. You could then use your earned credits on hiring mercenaries or something.

 

[CrimsonKnight13]

I loved Tuchanka. The death of Mordin is IMO most climatic moment of ME3. Seeing him riding upstairs saying "Pity, would love to examine seashells", which refers to one of his earlier conversation with Shepard on how he sees his retirement, really shows the sacrifice done to fight Reapers.

I wasn't being specific about the story but more so about the environment & the lack of ability to explore them further. It felt like they might as well have just called ME3 competition to Gears of War 3 rather than being the 3rd RPG title of the series...

 

[Colonel Sanders]

I wasn't being specific about the story but more so about the environment & the lack of ability to explore them further. It felt like they might as well have just called ME3 competition to Gears of War 3 rather than being the 3rd RPG title of the series...

The ME games have never been a sandbox style game a la Elder Scrolls. The most exploration you could do was in ME1 on the Citadel, and even then it wasn't that expansive, and was mostly just time wasting filler (e.g. long hallways that serve no purpose other than extend your travel time)

 

[CrimsonKnight13]

The ME games have never been a sandbox style game a la Elder Scrolls. The most exploration you could do was in ME1 on the Citadel, and even then it wasn't that expansive, and was mostly just time wasting filler (e.g. long hallways that serve no purpose other than extend your travel time)

That's true but I still enjoyed the long "walks" while fighting Geth & such. It seems like the levels are a whole lot smaller compared to ME1. That doesn't feel very expansive to me.

 

[Q-BZ]

That's true but I still enjoyed the long "walks" while fighting Geth & such. It seems like the levels are a whole lot smaller compared to ME1. That doesn't feel very expansive to me.

I'd even say this is true vs part 2.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

Hmm, I've of the opinion that they're all pretty much the same (well, ME does have the mix of driving + on foot sections that I liked). The side missions in ME3 were sometimes extremely small, but so were the N7 missions in ME2 (some were shorter than anything in ME1 or ME3). In the primary plot missions though I don't really see much of a difference.

 

[MaZa]

I didnt find the lack of exploration a problem really. Through the game there was a constant feeling of urgency. What ever you do you need to do fast and then get back to help Earth. This wasnt a game where I just want to lose myself and explore the unknown and find secrets.

 

[Dan_D]

I didnt find the lack of exploration a problem really. Through the game there was a constant feeling of urgency. What ever you do you need to do fast and then get back to help Earth. This wasnt a game where I just want to lose myself and explore the unknown and find secrets.

The way the game is designed you can explore to some extent, but it's more like "I'll look over here because there might be something I can use and it's on the way." You have to do this to complete the game 100%.

 

[CrimsonKnight13]

The way the game is designed you can explore to some extent, but it's more like "I'll look over here because there might be something I can use and it's on the way." You have to do this to complete the game 100%.

Other than the vids on Sanctuary, Eden Prime & Cerberus HQ, the rest of the discoverable items were lacking. I just wanted more depth even in the areas that were provided during missions. The game was enjoyable but still felt short to me.

 

[Dan_D]

That's true but I still enjoyed the long "walks" while fighting Geth & such. It seems like the levels are a whole lot smaller compared to ME1. That doesn't feel very expansive to me.

They are. I think the change in design is simple. ME1 had a ton of filler content in it with planet exploration which was essentially the same crap recycled over and over again to make it a 40 hour game. It has far less dialog than ME2 and ME3 have. They went from some 20,000 lines of dialog in Mass Effect to 33,000 for Mass Effect 2. I don't think actual numbers have been made available for ME3, but supposedly it's at least as long as ME2 if not more so in that regard. Additionally there is a huge difference in graphics quality from ME1 to ME2. You can get away with larger maps in ME1 and still hit the same basic performance. ME2 looked a lot better so things had to be scaled down more than likely in order to keep performance similar. It may simply have been done to change the pacing of the missions. It is most likely a combination of things which led to the decision to scale back certain areas.

ME2's planet scanning was another time sink. Though not as bad as planet exploration in ME1 was. Gathering resources took about 1.5 to 2 hours for everything you'd need for the whole game. Plus you needed to at least click on every planet to ensure there wasn't a mission to be done there. That always took some time as well. But no more than an hour or so. The scanning in ME3 takes about an hour I think for all of it.

 

[Dan_D]

Other than the vids on Sanctuary, Eden Prime & Cerberus HQ, the rest of the discoverable items were lacking. I just wanted more depth even in the areas that were provided during missions. The game was enjoyable but still felt short to me.

Are you talking about story based discoverables or items? Because if it's items you are looking for then Tuchunka, Manae, Horizon, and Sur'Kesh had the most items which could be found. Basically the priority missions had the most to offer for finding weapons and upgrades. With regard to extras that are story based such as the videos, then yeah, Sanctuary and the Illusive Man's base are where pretty much everything is at. There are some interesting audio clips from the STG base on Sur'Kesh, mostly relating to the Yahg.

 

[CrimsonKnight13]

They are. I think the change in design is simple. ME1 had a ton of filler content in it with planet exploration which was essentially the same crap recycled over and over again to make it a 40 hour game. It has far less dialog than ME2 and ME3 have. They went from some 20,000 lines of dialog in Mass Effect to 33,000 for Mass Effect 2. I don't think actual numbers have been made available for ME3, but supposedly it's at least as long as ME2 if not more so in that regard. Additionally there is a huge difference in graphics quality from ME1 to ME2. You can get away with larger maps in ME1 and still hit the same basic performance. ME2 looked a lot better so things had to be scaled down more than likely in order to keep performance similar. It may simply have been done to change the pacing of the missions. It is most likely a combination of things which led to the decision to scale back certain areas.

ME2's planet scanning was another time sink. Though not as bad as planet exploration in ME1 was. Gathering resources took about 1.5 to 2 hours for everything you'd need for the whole game. Plus you needed to at least click on every planet to ensure there wasn't a mission to be done there. That always took some time as well. But no more than an hour or so. The scanning in ME3 takes about an hour I think for all of it.

The scanning parts are sort of in the middle of experience & preference for me since I enjoy visiting new systems. I feel that ME has gone from one extreme (exploratory filler_ to another (scan system/avoid Reapers/scan planet for single item).

As a sci-fi fan, did you actually want to explore any of the areas? I know that the whole Mass Effect series had many of them that I really wanted to experience more of. I'm not sure if its nostalgia or just the pure enjoyment I had from seeing some of the distant imagery on some missions that took me far beyond the visual narrative that was being presented within the narrow scope of moving forward.

Are you talking about story based discoverables or items? Because if it's items you are looking for then Tuchunka, Manae, Horizon, and Sur'Kesh had the most items which could be found. Basically the priority missions had the most to offer for finding weapons and upgrades. With regard to extras that are story based such as the videos, then yeah, Sanctuary and the Illusive Man's base are where pretty much everything is at. There are some interesting audio clips from the STG base on Sur'Kesh, mostly relating to the Yahg.

Not really the discoverable items but more areas that might explain more about the Reapers, Crucible, Protheans, & maybe the civilizations of the past. ME1 & ME2 both had us visiting expeditions & archaeological digs to find more information. I just wanted more depth to the story. Hell.. even learning more about the Yahg would've been cool & why the Reapers left them alone. They seem pretty damn intelligent.

 

[Dan_D]

The scanning parts are sort of in the middle of experience & preference for me since I enjoy visiting new systems. I feel that ME has gone from one extreme (exploratory filler_ to another (scan system/avoid Reapers/scan planet for single item).

As a sci-fi fan, did you actually want to explore any of the areas? I know that the whole Mass Effect series had many of them that I really wanted to experience more of. I'm not sure if its nostalgia or just the pure enjoyment I had from seeing some of the distant imagery on some missions that took me far beyond the visual narrative that was being presented within the narrow scope of moving forward.



Not really the discoverable items but more areas that might explain more about the Reapers, Crucible, Protheans, & maybe the civilizations of the past. ME1 & ME2 both had us visiting expeditions & archaeological digs to find more information. I just wanted more depth to the story. Hell.. even learning more about the Yahg would've been cool & why the Reapers left them alone. They seem pretty damn intelligent.

I often felt a sense of urgency in the missions while playing many of them. I explored enough to find all the weapons and upgrades in the game, but I tried to move quickly. In fact the mission where you rescue the downed Turians changes a bit dialog wise if you don't move your ass. I don't think it matters, but more Turians die if you don't get your ass in gear. It's possible to save quite a few more from the Reaper forces if you move quickly. While the Mass Effect universe is full of wonder and awe, the fact is that long, drawn out and slow exploration takes away from the feeling that the galaxy is on fire and people are dying everywhere. I think it's contrary to the narrative part of this game's story. As for more about the lore, well there is a ton of it in the codex and through the three games we've learned a lot. Too much more and I'm not sure how much mystery or wonder we'd have left.

What I really wanted was more missions. The game is over 40 hours long to complete 100%. Still it goes by so damned fast. It's very odd in a game like this. I loved ME2 but it has a couple slow spots. This one really doesn't. With "From Ashes" and Javik we find out a ton about the Protheans. Especially if you talk to him between missions and if you take both he and Liara to Thessia. Also we learn a bit about the ancient Krogan people. Again more so if you bring Liara as she's got a lot of extra dialog in the ruins. Javik does touch on the races of his time, but not in any great detail. What he does tell you shows some clear differences between the races of his time and this cycle, but you can see the similarities. More information is always good but I found what was there to be fullfilling most of the time. As for the Yahg, we know a fair amount about them. Lair of the Shadow Broker tells us a bit about them as does data on the Shadow Broker's ship. Also, there are recordings concerning the ones being studied by the Salarian Special Tasks Group. We know they are being left alone because they are a prespaceflight culture. They are obviously not too primitive given that Liara's predecessor was basically a captive who broke free and had to learn enough to comprehend the world around him.

But oddly, the ones shown in ME3 don't seem to be all that intelligent. Then again they may live on a very fractured world in which you've got some measure of civilization, possibly even 21st century equivalent to Earths, and tribal areas as well with more primative specimens of the species. Honestly I never felt we were lacking any important information about them. The Salarians were considering uplifting them which of course would be a bad idea given how things turned out with the Krogan.

 

[CrimsonKnight13]

I often felt a sense of urgency in the missions while playing many of them. I explored enough to find all the weapons and upgrades in the game, but I tried to move quickly. In fact the mission where you rescue the downed Turians changes a bit dialog wise if you don't move your ass. I don't think it matters, but more Turians die if you don't get your ass in gear. It's possible to save quite a few more from the Reaper forces if you move quickly. While the Mass Effect universe is full of wonder and awe, the fact is that long, drawn out and slow exploration takes away from the feeling that the galaxy is on fire and people are dying everywhere. I think it's contrary to the narrative part of this game's story. As for more about the lore, well there is a ton of it in the codex and through the three games we've learned a lot. Too much more and I'm not sure how much mystery or wonder we'd have left.

What I really wanted was more missions. The game is over 40 hours long to complete 100%. Still it goes by so damned fast. It's very odd in a game like this. I loved ME2 but it has a couple slow spots. This one really doesn't. With "From Ashes" and Javik we find out a ton about the Protheans. Especially if you talk to him between missions and if you take both he and Liara to Thessia. Also we learn a bit about the ancient Krogan people. Again more so if you bring Liara as she's got a lot of extra dialog in the ruins. Javik does touch on the races of his time, but not in any great detail. What he does tell you shows some clear differences between the races of his time and this cycle, but you can see the similarities. More information is always good but I found what was there to be fullfilling most of the time. As for the Yahg, we know a fair amount about them. Lair of the Shadow Broker tells us a bit about them as does data on the Shadow Broker's ship. Also, there are recordings concerning the ones being studied by the Salarian Special Tasks Group. We know they are being left alone because they are a prespaceflight culture. They are obviously not too primitive given that Liara's predecessor was basically a captive who broke free and had to learn enough to comprehend the world around him.

But oddly, the ones shown in ME3 don't seem to be all that intelligent. Then again they may live on a very fractured world in which you've got some measure of civilization, possibly even 21st century equivalent to Earths, and tribal areas as well with more primative specimens of the species. Honestly I never felt we were lacking any important information about them. The Salarians were considering uplifting them which of course would be a bad idea given how things turned out with the Krogan.

Usually I don't read books or codices in games since I'm focused on the game at hand. I tend to seek after the immersion of the dialog, gameplay & short in-game text. I understand the urgency for sure & I realized the error of my ways with the Turian rescue mission.

Thinking about it more, having additional missions would've been great. In a way, I felt that I could've done a lot more to implement guerrilla warfare against the Reapers. I'm torn with my enjoyment of what the game offered (minus last mission) & what I wanted more of. I think I'm just used to sandbox-type & RPGs that provided a ton of missions to build up one's character, crew & gear. I honestly felt a bit underpowered with the waves of enemies with the endgame. Maybe the ME3 DLC will provide what I'm wanting more of but I didn't want it to come down to that when I started the game.

This isn't the BioWare I used to know...

Edit: I really wanted a Yahg team member for heavy firepower...

 

[Dan_D]

Usually I don't read books or codices in games since I'm focused on the game at hand. I tend to seek after the immersion of the dialog, gameplay & short in-game text. I understand the urgency for sure & I realized the error of my ways with the Turian rescue mission.

Thinking about it more, having additional missions would've been great. In a way, I felt that I could've done a lot more to implement guerrilla warfare against the Reapers. I'm torn with my enjoyment of what the game offered (minus last mission) & what I wanted more of. I think I'm just used to sandbox-type & RPGs that provided a ton of missions to build up one's character, crew & gear. I honestly felt a bit underpowered with the waves of enemies with the endgame. Maybe the ME3 DLC will provide what I'm wanting more of but I didn't want it to come down to that when I started the game.

This isn't the BioWare I used to know...

Edit: I really wanted a Yahg team member for heavy firepower...

I felt that way on my first run through that part as well. On your first playthrough, the weapons can only be upgraded to level 5 and your character probably won't reach level 60. If you start a new game and import an ME3 Shepard, your level hits 60 pretty early on and your weapons can be upgraded to level 10. You also keep any weapons and armor you acquired during your first playthrough. A second run through gives you the chance to purchase all the Spectre weapons should you desire, though the M-77 Paladin is useless in my opinion. The M11-Wraith isn't a bad choice and the Black Widow is a great sniper rifle for some classes.

 

[CrimsonKnight13]

I felt that way on my first run through that part as well. On your first playthrough, the weapons can only be upgraded to level 5 and your character probably won't reach level 60. If you start a new game and import an ME3 Shepard, your level hits 60 pretty early on and your weapons can be upgraded to level 10. You also keep any weapons and armor you acquired during your first playthrough. A second run through gives you the chance to purchase all the Spectre weapons should you desire, though the M-77 Paladin is useless in my opinion. The M11-Wraith isn't a bad choice and the Black Widow is a great sniper rifle for some classes.

I almost hit lvl 56, so I wasn't doing too bad. I'll see about doing a 2nd playthrough but my gaming backlog is a bit long for the moment. I might just do it anyways to get the most of out of the game.

 

[Dan_D]

I almost hit lvl 56, so I wasn't doing too bad. I'll see about doing a 2nd playthrough but my gaming backlog is a bit long for the moment. I might just do it anyways to get the most of out of the game.

Also anytime you pick up a weapon in a subsequent playthrough with an imported ME3 Shepard you will pick up 3 levels of a given weapon. So anything you've got at level 1 now will hit level IV on your next pickup. And at level 60 you can almost max out all your possible skill trees for Shepard and the squad mates.

 

[CrimsonKnight13]

Also anytime you pick up a weapon in a subsequent playthrough with an imported ME3 Shepard you will pick up 3 levels of a given weapon. So anything you've got at level 1 now will hit level IV on your next pickup. And at level 60 you can almost max out all your possible skill trees for Shepard and the squad mates.

Have you found anything on the 2nd playthrough that you missed on the first?

 

[Q-BZ]

Also anytime you pick up a weapon in a subsequent playthrough with an imported ME3 Shepard you will pick up 3 levels of a given weapon. So anything you've got at level 1 now will hit level IV on your next pickup. And at level 60 you can almost max out all your possible skill trees for Shepard and the squad mates.

So basically you can do New Game+ if I read you right?

 

[Dan_D]

Have you found anything on the 2nd playthrough that you missed on the first?

Quest wise and dialog wise, yes. Some how, some way, I totally missed Matriarch Atheyta at the Apollo Cafe. Item wise I found a couple things. The Rosenkov Materials shoulder guards. This is part of what was called the Kestral armor in Mass Effect 2. Though they look the same the bonuses are quite different. I also missed the M-99 Saber and the M-13 Raptor my first time through. There may be one or two weapon modifications I missed, but it's hard to tell and those can always be purchased later anyway.

So basically you can do New Game+ if I read you right?

Correct. Just as you could with the first two games.

 

[Jellylesg]

This is a bit long winded and loaded with spoilers, but I watched through it and I agree with most of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUqAhKW7498

I love his idea of fighting Harbinger on the ground.

"Up until the end it really was a 10/10 game".

Closed.

 

[CrimsonKnight13]

Quest wise and dialog wise, yes. Some how, some way, I totally missed Matriarch Atheyta at the Apollo Cafe. Item wise I found a couple things. The Rosenkov Materials shoulder guards. This is part of what was called the Kestral armor in Mass Effect 2. Though they look the same the bonuses are quite different. I also missed the M-99 Saber and the M-13 Raptor my first time through. There may be one or two weapon modifications I missed, but it's hard to tell and those can always be purchased later anyway.

What mission does that Matriarch offer? I don't recall talking with her.

 

[Dan_D]

What mission does that Matriarch offer? I don't recall talking with her.

It's not a mission. It just confirms my suspicion from ME2 that she was Liara's father. It leads to some amusing conversation, especially if you urge Liara to talk to her. It is a side thing. Basically you have to talk to Liara once in the Presidium Commons early in the game. Go pick up a quest or do a quest, even Citadel quests count. Then go back and you'll see Matriarch Atheyta at the bar. You can go up and order a drink and she'll talk to you. What's interesting is that she proceeds under the assumption that Shepard (male or female) is dating Liara even if you aren't. Shepard at no point has any option to deny the involvement. I found that part odd. Then again most of what she knows is from observing Liara who has a thing for Shepard regardless of whether or not you romanced her in any of the games.

 

[TwistedAegis]

On my 2nd playthrough now and am going the Renegade route...the whole outcome with Moridin was brutal, I don't think I've ever felt like such an evil douchebag for something I've done in a video game before.

 

[CrimsonKnight13]

It's not a mission. It just confirms my suspicion from ME2 that she was Liara's father. It leads to some amusing conversation, especially if you urge Liara to talk to her. It is a side thing. Basically you have to talk to Liara once in the Presidium Commons early in the game. Go pick up a quest or do a quest, even Citadel quests count. Then go back and you'll see Matriarch Atheyta at the bar. You can go up and order a drink and she'll talk to you. What's interesting is that she proceeds under the assumption that Shepard (male or female) is dating Liara even if you aren't. Shepard at no point has any option to deny the involvement. I found that part odd. Then again most of what she knows is from observing Liara who has a thing for Shepard regardless of whether or not you romanced her in any of the games.

The whole Asari "male" role has always been a strange one to grasp when the other Asari or another female are with them. I'm still curious how the whole melding process works & how the physical contact plays into a pregnancy.

Edit: http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Asari
Much information to go over but its not exactly a precise information depository for a more in-depth view.

 

[Dan_D]

On my 2nd playthrough now and am going the Renegade route...the whole outcome with Moridin was brutal, I don't think I've ever felt like such an evil douchebag for something I've done in a video game before.

As I understand it there are actually three ways that scenario can play out:

• Mordin survives, Eve dies, genophage cured.
• Mordin dies, Eve survives, genophage cured.
• Mordin dies, genophage still in effect, I believe Eve dies but you get Salarian support for the war.

But yeah, the thing with Mordin is pretty bad. One of those outcomes aside from the second one can create a confrontation with Urdnot Wrex in which Shepard and or C-SEC Commander Bailey are forced to kill him. I believe Urdnot Wreav takes place of Wrex in some varations of this as well. So there are huge implications for that part of the game going forward.

Miranda, Thane, Grunt, Mordin, Wrex, Ashley / Kaiden, Legion, Kelly Chambers, and Tali can all die in the game. Though Kelly's death isn't seen. It's only mentioned by the Normandy engineers from ME2 if you pardoned them at the Spectre terminal. Kelly can die one of two ways. Either by suicide or by Cerberus's hands. And of course the list of the dead can be significantly longer if you botched the ending of ME2 significantly. Some of these deaths are avoidable if you go with paragon responses and some are a simple matter of having enough reputation and choosing either route. Grunts death is linked to his loyalty mission in ME2. Thane dies regardless of your choices. Thane is the only death I know of which you can not prevent for certain but I believe Legion's is also unavoidable.

I'm doing a renegade playthrough myself right now. Funny thing, I saw video of Ashley confronting Shepard on Youtube about sleeping with Miranda or someone else from ME2. If Shepard says; "I want to work this out" she may mention your ME2 fling by name. In my game she says; "Rumor has it you worked things out with a lot of people." My renegade Shepard isn't what you'd call faithful. I went through as much of the Normandy crew as I could. Speaking of which, in this game I think I'm going to bang the reporter, get Ashley killed off then bang Liara.

 

[TwistedAegis]

As I understand it there are actually three ways that scenario can play out:

• Mordin survives, Eve dies, genophage cured.
• Mordin dies, Eve survives, genophage cured.
• Mordin dies, genophage still in effect, I believe Eve dies but you get Salarian support for the war.

In my scenario, Moridin dies (shot in the back by me... ), Eve survives, but the genophage is still in effect. However no one knows what I did, outside of the Salarian high command.

Watching Moridin trying to stay alive going up the escalator, bleeding out, and crawling to fall short of curing what he now felt was a mistake...actually made me sick to my stomach.

And unfortunately I missed Kelly on my first paragon playthrough (I didn't scour the Citadel nearly enough early on); on my 2nd Renegade she took a cyanide pill after I blew up at her for reporting on me to Cerberus (which really, only made sense).

Such a great game with such a sense of emotion...and then we all know what happens. Oh well, I'm enjoying the ride enough that even the crash at the end isn't putting me off.

 

[Dan_D]

In my scenario, Moridin dies (shot in the back by me... ), Eve survives, but the genophage is still in effect. However no one knows what I did, outside of the Salarian high command.

Watching Moridin trying to stay alive going up the escalator, bleeding out, and crawling to fall short of curing what he now felt was a mistake...actually made me sick to my stomach.

And unfortunately I missed Kelly on my first paragon playthrough (I didn't scour the Citadel nearly enough early on); on my 2nd Renegade she took a cyanide pill after I blew up at her for reporting on me to Cerberus (which really, only made sense).

Such a great game with such a sense of emotion...and then we all know what happens. Oh well, I'm enjoying the ride enough that even the crash at the end isn't putting me off.

Yeah, I have to just think of the renegade ending as the only viable ending and that it's indoctrination. That's the ONLY way I can even stand to watch it.

 

[TwistedAegis]

Yeah, I have to just think of the renegade ending as the only viable ending and that it's indoctrination. That's the ONLY way I can even stand to watch it.

Honestly I think was in some state of shock the first playthrough...it was so random. The blue child spouts off a bunch of random crap that didn't really make sense, so quickly that you can hardly understand even the basic ramifications of any choice...then leave you to make the choice. That was the worst part...he stopped talking and I'm just sitting there thinking, "Wait...what?!"

 

[CrimsonKnight13]

Honestly I think was in some state of shock the first playthrough...it was so random. The blue child spouts off a bunch of random crap that didn't really make sense, so quickly that you can hardly understand even the basic ramifications of any choice...then leave you to make the choice. That was the worst part...he stopped talking and I'm just sitting there thinking, "Wait...what?!"

The ending was very abrupt... I really wanted to know the full implications of any choice I'd make but that didn't happen.

Watching the youtube video which shows all endings at once helped me realize that it definitely has be indoctrination & that Anderson will kick your ass awake from this stupor.

 

[Dan_D]

Honestly I think was in some state of shock the first playthrough...it was so random. The blue child spouts off a bunch of random crap that didn't really make sense, so quickly that you can hardly understand even the basic ramifications of any choice...then leave you to make the choice. That was the worst part...he stopped talking and I'm just sitting there thinking, "Wait...what?!"

This was my initial experience as well.

The ending was very abrupt... I really wanted to know the full implications of any choice I'd make but that didn't happen.

Watching the youtube video which shows all endings at once helped me realize that it definitely has be indoctrination & that Anderson will kick your ass awake from this stupor.

I can't really see it any other way. Too many things don't make sense. The two big ones are the fact that Shepard can wake up in London if you pick up the Renegade ending. The other is Anderson's gun shot wound appearing on Shepard after Anderson dies.

 

[PureBooYah]

The ending was very abrupt... I really wanted to know the full implications of any choice I'd make but that didn't happen.

Watching the youtube video which shows all endings at once helped me realize that it definitely has be indoctrination & that Anderson will kick your ass awake from this stupor.

Indoctrination is the only thing that makes the nonsense at the end make sense, but that also means the game doesn't have an ending. You beat indoctrination, then what happens? I would have liked closure, but maybe that's what Bioware was going for, a game ending that doesn't have closure so you're left discussing it. Almost like your war assets were strong enough to beat the reapers on their own so the last hope the reapers had was to control the person that brought that force together so the last boss was yourself. I personally think they may have made the game a little too open to interpretation leaving many people confused and bitching. Whether that's for more DLC or not remains to be seen.

There's just too many plot holes otherwise. It's so bad that if you take the ending at face value it looks like it was written, developed, tested, and approved by people that have never even heard of the first 2 games.

Bioware has written too many great stories to make me believe they would ignore that many plotholes, and it would make them look like they just didn't care about the game or their fans which I don't see as true. Now you may argue this using some of their recent releases like DA2 and SWTOR. I admit I haven't played DA2, however SWTOR does have good "single player" stories and most of the complaints about that game aren't about the story. I'm still giving them the benefit of the doubt and believe they did everything for a reason.

Now don't get me wrong, they aren't completely innocent, there's still the problem of them saying 16 different endings and choices that mattered (although it could be argued your choices do matter...for war assets).

And for those that care, another good read about the indoctrination theory, http://uninhibitedandunrepentant.tumblr.com/post/19344938387/mind-holy-fuck (mentions that they noticed a subtle musical change based on what choice you ran to, haven't double checked this myself, but interesting if true.)

edit: A lot of people have said that Bioware didn't pay attention to detail with the endings because of all the plot holes, but it may just be the users that aren't looking at all the subtle details Bioware put in the game. I know a lot of people that need the details to smack them in the face in order for them to understand what's going on.

 

[Dan_D]

Indoctrination is the only thing that makes the nonsense at the end make sense, but that also means the game doesn't have an ending. You beat indoctrination, then what happens? I would have liked closure, but maybe that's what Bioware was going for, a game ending that doesn't have closure so you're left discussing it. Almost like your war assets were strong enough to beat the reapers on their own so the last hope the reapers had was to control the person that brought that force together so the last boss was yourself. I personally think they made the game a little too open to interpretation leaving many people confused and bitching. Whether that's for more DLC or not remains to be seen.

There's just too many plot holes otherwise. It's so bad that if you take the ending at face value it looks like it was written, developed, tested, and approved by people that have never even heard of the first 2 games.

Bioware has written too many great stories to make me believe they would ignore that many plotholes, and it would make them look like they just didn't care about the game or their fans which I don't see as true. Now you may argue this using some of their recent releases like DA2 and SWTOR. I admit I haven't played DA2, however SWTOR does have good "single player" stories and most of the complaints about that game aren't about the story. I'm still giving them the benefit of the doubt and believe they did everything for a reason.

Now don't get me wrong, they aren't completely innocent, there's still the problem of them saying 16 different endings and choices that mattered (although it could be argued your choices do matter...for war assets).

And for those that care, another good read about the indoctrination theory, http://uninhibitedandunrepentant.tumblr.com/post/19344938387/mind-holy-fuck

I don't have the article but my girlfriend read somewhere that BioWare wanted to push the ending of Mass Effect 3 back as late as December 2012 to rewrite the ending of the game due to the leaks. I don't know if that time frame is correct or not, but I'm guessing the ending wasn't as well received as they wanted. (Somehow this shit is supposed to be better??!?!?!?!?) It is and always has been my opinion that leaks like a script leak are done on purpose to gauge fan reaction when they are unsure how something will be received. If the reaction is good they'll shore it up and use that. If the reaction is bad they'll take the opportunity to change it denying the crappy script was anything more than an idea drafted early on. Anyway I read another article today which had something from Casey Hudson about them delivering more Mass Effect 3 content over the rest of the year. He had also said that the game was largely complete and they worked on the ending pretty much last. It wasn't finalized until just a few weeks before release. Which means sometime after the initial release date in December got pushed back to March 6th. The original ending which I didn't read myself also had something to do with the dark matter plotline that was begun in Mass Effect 2 on Tali's missions that went nowhere. I didn't read the leaked script and didn't bother after the game came out as it was pretty much a moot point.

In any case, I think that if BioWare is smart they'll adopt the indoctrination theory (even if that was never their original intent) because it not only makes sense of what they wrote, but it actually has a certain brilliance to it. Then they need to make a DLC for Shepard waking up and take some of the ideas out there in the wild into account and give us something that satisfies those of us who not only want more Mass Effect, but want a more satisfying end to the story in which we get closure.

The thing is, the game should have launched in December but then they said they wanted to hold it back for a March release to maximize commerical success and ensure it exceeds all expectations. But what does that really mean? Well it could mean that the game was initially longer than what we got and they spent the last few weeks removing the last part of the game or extending it to capitalize on DLC sales. Not to mention the controversy surrounding the game will most likely work in EA's favor. It's pretty much free publicity. And it keeps people talking about the game long after people finished it. Multiplayer might even serve as a tool for maximizing the franchise. When they see the player base drop off significantly they may hit us with DLC to keep us coming back to the game time and time again. The biggest clue which supports my theory on the commercialization of this game is the note about looking for DLC after the game is "completed."

I think this plan may have even worked before to some extent on Mass Effect 2. Think about it. Liara was one of, if not the most popular romance choices in Mass Effect. Yet she was mysteriously pretty much absent from ME2 until the Shadow broker DLC came out. I think they counted on fans of the Shepard / Liara relationship and the character herself to buy the DLC. And as I understand it, the DLC sold VERY well. It didn't have the same level of integration that "From Ashes" had with the core game, indicating it was developed later, but the idea could have been there from the start.

At the end of the day I chalk most of this bullshit up to EA's indoctrination of BioWare. But whatever the truth really is, one thing I'm certain of is that we'll be seeing more Mass Effect 3 content soon and this game may end up with more DLC than even ME2 had.

 

[PureBooYah]

I don't have the article but my girlfriend read somewhere that BioWare wanted to push the ending of Mass Effect 3 back as late as December 2012 to rewrite the ending of the game due to the leaks. I'm guessing the ending wasn't as well received as they wanted. (Somehow this shit is supposed to be better??!?!?!?!?)It is my opinion that leaks like a script leak are done on purpose to gauge fan reaction when they are unsure how something will be received. If the reaction is good they'll shore it up and use that. If the reaction is bad they'll take the opportunity to change it denying the crappy script was anything more than an idea drafted early on. Anyway I read another article today which had something from Casey Hudson about them delivering more Mass Effect 3 content over the rest of the year. He had also said that the game was largely complete and they worked on the ending pretty much last. It wasn't finalized until just a few weeks before release. Which means sometime after the initial release date in December got pushed back to March 6th. The original ending which I didn't read myself also had something to do with the dark matter plotline that was begun in Mass Effect 2 on Tali's missions that went nowhere. I didn't read the leaked script and didn't bother after the game came out as it was pretty much a moot point.

In any case, I think that if BioWare is smart they'll adopt the indoctrination theory (even if that was never their original intent) because it not only makes sense of what they wrote, but it actually has a certain brilliance to it. Then they need to make a DLC for Shepard waking up and take some of the ideas out there in the wild into account and give us something that satisfies those of us who not only want more Mass Effect, but want a more satisfying end to the story in which we get closure.

The thing is, the game should have launched in December but then they said they wanted to hold it back for a March release to maximize commerical success and ensure it exceeds all expectations. But what does that really mean? Well it could mean that the game was initially longer than what we got and they spent the last few weeks removing the last part of the game or extending it to capitalize on DLC sales. Not to mention the controversy surrounding the game will most likely work in EA's favor. It's pretty much free publicity. And it keeps people talking about the game long after people finished it. Multiplayer might even serve as a tool for maximizing the franchise. When they see the player base drop off significantly they may hit us with DLC to keep us coming back to the game time and time again. The biggest clue which supports my theory on the commercialization of this game is the note about looking for DLC after the game is "completed."

I think this plan may have even worked before to some extent on Mass Effect 2. Think about it. Liara was one of, if not the most popular romance choices in Mass Effect. Yet she was mysteriously pretty much absent from ME2 until the Shadow broker DLC came out. I think they counted on fans of the Shepard / Liara relationship and the character herself to buy the DLC. And as I understand it, the DLC sold VERY well.

At the end of the day I chalk most of this bullshit up to EA's indoctrination of BioWare. But whatever the truth really is, one thing I'm certain of is that we'll be seeing more Mass Effect 3 content soon and this game may end up with more than even ME2 had.

Agree with you 100% on everything there. I didn't know they wanted to push the game back even further so the indoctrination non-ending and that message at the end definitely makes sense now.