It sucks that I'll have to be patient and stick with my 1070 until the burst...
M*ther@#$@#er I've got a 1050!
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It sucks that I'll have to be patient and stick with my 1070 until the burst...
You're not wrong, but neither are the people saying that this is just the market.
The market doesn't care about the community. It doesn't care about what happens to the PC industry over the long term. All the market cares about is maximizing (short-term) profit, period. Which I personally agree is a problem, but to a certain extent we are only reaping what we (as a society) have sewn.
I am shocked that some of you guys are using "Free Market" .... "Luxury Items" ..... "Capitalism" as a defense for companies taking away what arguably is the heart and soul of any gaming computer, the GPU. Not only shocking and unreal but down right sad. This entire nightmare is not only unprecedented, it's splintering the PC enthusiast community as evident by some of the posts on this very thread.
I've been building gaming/workstation systems since the early 1990's. In fact it's how I make my living to this day. But I have never ever seen this type of disruption in the market. People CANNOT build a gaming PC ... this is in Kansas City, this is in Mountain View, California, Denver Co, NYC, Miami Florida ... the locations go on and on and on the world over. The GPU market no longer serves gamers primary, it serves the mining community. I've talked at length with the sales guys down at Microcenter and was told several times there is literally nothing they can do to stop miners from getting their cards as they come in. I was told they have 20 - 30 miners laying in wait to pounce on their cards for every 1 PC builder that comes in. How true is this? I'm pretty sure it's true. In fact the problem is so severe Microcenter had to price all of their video cards out of miners hands to protect gamer's. You cannot buy a 1080 Ti now at a Microcenter without spending $1,400 .... $1.500 hundred fucking dollars. Go look or call @ Microcenter.com right now if you have any doubts.
Miners caused this ... not PC gamers. I'm partly to blame, more on this below.
Not to kiss anyone's ass but when the founder of HardOCP made this post it reflected probably one of his core passions for the PC market/community as a whole. Which, was not only the right thing to do, it's his right. The over-all message was very clear. It's wrong and compounds the problem.
I don't know about any of you but who do you want in your corner? What do you stand for?
This is not so much an attack on miners. I want Newegg and Microcenter and especially Miners themselves to make money. Full disclosure, I might be.... I might not be involved in 1,450 MH/s being mined 24/7 but even as an ( allegedly ) miner, more has to be done. It's easy for me to speak out because I'm in a great position but I still personally think any GPU whatsoever should be going back into the hands of gamers. This is a terrible time for any company to be involved in disrupting the market any further. I'm cool with miners but not when the market cannot support both parties.
Also, if you want a 1080 ti at MSRP prices, there's always the nvidia store: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/products/10series/geforce-store/
Feel free to pick one up at 699. Screw microcenter, screw amazon, just do some decent shopping and you can find a decent price.
Also what i stand for is anything that suits me. I play video games but i don't consider myself part of the broader gaming community for things like this because when it comes down to it, it doesn't affect me and i don't think it affects the broader gaming community in general. It's just a temporary phase.
http://www.nowinstock.net/computers/videocards/nvidia/gtx1080ti/full_history.phpPoint of order: Those are out of stock, and have been for some time.
Well, unless you produce your own motherboards, memory, etc. -- not to mention your own games -- what happens to the industry may well affect you.
If you're saying "this too shall pass," well, I suspect you're right. But I'd be very sad to discover that you're wrong.
Hold on to your butts everyone.
This has happened before, I believe it will happen again.
Once enough miners start doing their thing, the mining networks that they are on will decrease the effectiveness of all hardware. Crypto prices will drop because that's what they do...and suddenly you're going to get a lot of people who spent $10 - 20k on hardware that makes them no money.
And then the market will flood with video cards, and the prices are going to drop so hard.
http://www.nowinstock.net/computers/videocards/nvidia/gtx1080ti/full_history.php
Every day it seems nvidia has more in stock, but they're gone in 2-10 minutes. Still, you can monitor that site and be alerted when it is in stock and at least get one for msrp if you really want one.
I used this to snag a snes classic. Pretty helpful for other goods which are hard to get because of supply issues (switch).
http://www.nowinstock.net/computers/videocards/nvidia/gtx1080ti/full_history.php
Every day it seems nvidia has more in stock, but they're gone in 2-10 minutes. Still, you can monitor that site and be alerted when it is in stock and at least get one for msrp if you really want one.
I used this to snag a snes classic. Pretty helpful for other goods which are hard to get because of supply issues (switch).
This will continue until all this crypto stuff hits the fan.........which I can bet won't be too long.
It isn't just the fact that gamers can't get cards at a sane price, it's the systemic effects across the whole PC hardware industry. There is some major splash damage occurring.
That said, I'm a free market guy, and I believe said free market will eventually take care of things. If the crypto bubble doesn't pop (and I think it will) then eventually manufacturers will begin to ramp up production. But for now it sucks incredibly hard. I'm in an indefinite holding pattern on a new build.
The ram doesn't matter, running 4 sticks of the same ram will give you quad channel if the MB/CPU support it.The RAM and MB both have to support it.
http://www.nowinstock.net/computers/videocards/nvidia/gtx1080ti/full_history.php
Every day it seems nvidia has more in stock, but they're gone in 2-10 minutes. Still, you can monitor that site and be alerted when it is in stock and at least get one for msrp if you really want one.
I used this to snag a snes classic. Pretty helpful for other goods which are hard to get because of supply issues (switch).
Two 1080 Ti's looking at $12 to $14 a day on NiceHash at the moment - it is varying. Still very high compared to 3 months ago. This coin crash or low has not lowered the profits like previous lows I've seen. Now 3 weeks ago one 1080 Ti would have been pulling that amount in or close to it. With restriction on the GPUs which also affects miners, looks like it is making mining remain more constant since the mining operations are not expanding as fast. Actually the more that quite mining the better for us small time miners that don't have a lot invested in hardware. Plus those GPU assets may start hitting the streets at more affordable prices. If they are not then they are still making money.I sold all my 1080s 11 days ago and then regret set in as i saw the shortages go from bad to worse. I was just crusing nicehash reddit section this morning and noticed a lot of miners complaining their profits are going down the drain. I was making $55 a day mining 2 weeks ago, i bet id only be making $25 today. Maybe $15 next week, when that happens i guarantee you -- a lot will quit.
Try to look at the bright side. All these shortages have resumed a need for actual overclocking on old hardware. I got a pair of Firepro V7800s i am gaming on and its kinda fun to see what is playable. (they earn 30 cents a day each, if you are wondering via nicehash miner)
I fully disagree with many aspects of this post.
High end GPUs are the definition of a luxury good. Explain how they're not?
Microcenter is scalping because of the high demand and the low supply. How does pricing them at 1400-1500 protect gamers? It does nothing but earn microcenter a quick buck for those who are willing to pay double the price for a luxury good.
If Microcenter wanted to protect gamers, like you are implying, they could just enforce a 1 item per person policy when it comes to GPUs.
Miners did cause a shortage of video cards because they bought up the extra supply. There's no denying that, but how is that somehow adverse to gamers?
There's no rolling back the clock on utilizing video cards for things other than games. CUDA came out and now the video card is basically a co-processor for specialized tasks. It's being used from a wide variety of things including crypto mining.
If this is a market issue, then some 3rd party graphics maker will come out of this mess and refuse to create drivers that can allow the video card to be used for something other than graphics. But the issue here is that the gaming market cap is pretty fixed. Even with the increase of prices, it's not like there's a very lucrative market that can limit themselves just to gamers.
Also, if you want a 1080 ti at MSRP prices, there's always the nvidia store: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/products/10series/geforce-store/
Feel free to pick one up at 699. Screw microcenter, screw amazon, just do some decent shopping and you can find a decent price.
Also what i stand for is anything that suits me. I play video games but i don't consider myself part of the broader gaming community for things like this because when it comes down to it, it doesn't affect me and i don't think it affects the broader gaming community in general. It's just a temporary phase.
Anyone claiming that they are making anything mining related that doesn't direcly affect the gpu gaming industry is 100% spinning bullshit. There's no defensible answer. The industry was created for gaming, with cards like tesla for data center (which should have been the mining cards technically) so anything that isn't a data center variant, is strictly being taken out of the gaming market. Now don't get me wrong, you can buy ping pong balls to throw in cups of beer and no one is going to lose their shit that they have to pay a little more for their table tennis past time, however due to the massive complexity of gpus and the volatility of the market, Nvidia can't afford to overproduce and lose their business when the crypto market takes a six month nosedive at some point.
I am shocked that some of you guys are using "Free Market" .... "Luxury Items" ..... "Capitalism" as a defense for companies taking away what arguably is the heart and soul of any gaming computer, the GPU. Not only shocking and unreal but down right sad. This entire nightmare is not only unprecedented, it's splintering the PC enthusiast community as evident by some of the posts on this very thread.
I've been building gaming/workstation systems since the early 1990's. In fact it's how I make my living to this day. But I have never ever seen this type of disruption in the market. People CANNOT build a gaming PC ... this is in Kansas City, this is in Mountain View, California, Denver Co, NYC, Miami Florida ... the locations go on and on and on the world over. The GPU market no longer serves gamers primary, it serves the mining community. I've talked at length with the sales guys down at Microcenter and was told several times there is literally nothing they can do to stop miners from getting their cards as they come in. I was told they have 20 - 30 miners laying in wait to pounce on their cards for every 1 PC builder that comes in. How true is this? I'm pretty sure it's true. In fact the problem is so severe Microcenter had to price all of their video cards out of miners hands to protect gamer's. You cannot buy a 1080 Ti now at a Microcenter without spending $1,400 .... $1.500 hundred fucking dollars. Go look or call @ Microcenter.com right now if you have any doubts.
Miners caused this ... not PC gamers. I'm partly to blame, more on this below.
Not to kiss anyone's ass but when the founder of HardOCP made this post it reflected probably one of his core passions for the PC market/community as a whole. Which, was not only the right thing to do, it's his right. The over-all message was very clear. It's wrong and compounds the problem what Maingear and other companies are currently doing and or have planned in regards to mining.
I don't know about any of you but who do you want in your corner? What do you stand for?
This is not so much an attack on miners. I want Newegg and Microcenter and especially Miners themselves to make money. Full disclosure, I might be.... I might not be involved in 1,450 MH/s being mined 24/7 but even as an ( allegedly ) miner, more has to be done. It's easy for me to speak out because I'm in a great position but I still personally think any GPU whatsoever should be going back into the hands of gamers. This is a terrible time for any company to be involved in disrupting the market any further. I'm cool with miners but not when the market cannot support both parties.
Wait up...... I think you have some misconceptions.... NVidia isn't producing chips. They order chips from the chip makers the same as the other manufacturers like ASUS and EVGA. They all place their orders with the Fab and the Fab makes the chips and sells them to fill the orders. Now the card makers are saying that they are not in a hurry to order more chips because they are afraid to make more cards and create a glut in the market and I actually believe them.
First off, a short term famine that effects prices isn't a loss for them. They sold all their projected supply, they made theirs already. Could they make more, sure, but why should I place another large order for chips and all the other components, lay on all that production, and risk getting stuck with a ton of cards I can't unload when I have made all of my sales projections for the year?
Why would I take that risk?
Now if there is something I don't understand correctly about this then by all means enlighten me. But if other GPU chip users are placing orders at the Fab and kicking out custom mining cards well, unless it's preventing EVGA from ordering more for themselves, then I don't see your take on this being accurate.
Maybe another consideration is more current chips will also eat into sells for the next generation of chips. Right now if Volta hit the stage in force it would sell out - if 10x times the # of Pascals hit the street gamers would probably not bother to update to Volta if they bought a nice reasonable priced Pascal chip. In any case, I do believe cheap gaming video cards will not be around for awhile unless of course mining disappears or is dramatically reduced. The market is indeed fixing the price regardless what people wish or hope for. Unfortunately the gaming market on the PC has to compete with any other market out there be it movies, music, racing or other forms of entertainment and hardware needed and costs. If someone rather build a mining rig vice a VR rig and you believe in some form of freedom then the mining rig it will be.Wait up...... I think you have some misconceptions.... NVidia isn't producing chips. They order chips from the chip makers the same as the other manufacturers like ASUS and EVGA. They all place their orders with the Fab and the Fab makes the chips and sells them to fill the orders. Now the card makers are saying that they are not in a hurry to order more chips because they are afraid to make more cards and create a glut in the market and I actually believe them.
First off, a short term famine that effects prices isn't a loss for them. They sold all their projected supply, they made theirs already. Could they make more, sure, but why should I place another large order for chips and all the other components, lay on all that production, and risk getting stuck with a ton of cards I can't unload when I have made all of my sales projections for the year?
Why would I take that risk?
Now if there is something I don't understand correctly about this then by all means enlighten me. But if other GPU chip users are placing orders at the Fab and kicking out custom mining cards well, unless it's preventing EVGA from ordering more for themselves, then I don't see your take on this being accurate.
Look, luxury isn't defined by how much something costs. It's defined as a premium put on products that are far above what the average or normal person gets. I can buy a luxury electric toothbrush for 200$. The average price of a toothbrush is probably around 2.50$, maybe electric ones are like 10$. 200$ is way above and beyond the normal.You cannot simply take a $699 video card and call it a luxury item/good. In fact, $699 and the definition of Luxury doesn't even belong in the same sentence. People are using current prices as a vehicle to make some errant point in regards to a free market, etc. All BS. Doesn't hold water, never will. In fact these same people of which you are one of them are proving my point for me.
Microcenter doesn't want to charge anymore for anything they sale than they have to. The logic being is that even if we raise our prices away from what we think miners would be willing to pay, at least we have those cards in stock for PC builders. The additional cost while unfortunate still sways the balance back towards gamers. Again, gamers did not cause this nightmarish state of affairs.
You're free to stand for what you want but remember this, if you stance is disruptive, doesn't align with the greater good of the community some people will take notice and remember that. All in all, it's not a really big deal but all of us have to decide what side of history we want to stand on. I admit I may or may not mine but my heart is truly with gamers. That's just what I believe in. There is room for both gamers and miners but I could never side with miners, ever. If the powers that be want to vastly increase production and support all of us, great but until that happens you're not going to catch me yapping about a Free Market and other ... clearly misguided BS babble that serves the few while the greater good goes without.
Prices are increased right down the line, not only the top tier.There isnt a violin little enough for this nonsense. >Luxury< class GPUs - that were already far outside the reach of most steam gamers if you look at the median GPU config - have been a few hundred dollars more than usual for a few weeks. The sky isn't falling because people that couldn't be bothered to buy or upgrade a GPU until now can't kill time at the highest framerates.
There was all of 2017 and most of 2016 to score a Pascal based nvidia for MSRP or less. Why is it now suddenly life and death? Prices will settle down. GPUs can still be found at MSRP if you keep an eye out.
Get a grip.
My thoughts as well but there are a number of folks where waiting a few months will be rather uncomfortable since they have a business around gaming a.k.a Gaming Nexus etc.There isnt a violin little enough for this nonsense. >Luxury< class GPUs - that were already far outside the reach of most steam gamers if you look at the median GPU config - have been a few hundred dollars more than usual for a few weeks. The sky isn't falling because people that couldn't be bothered to buy or upgrade a GPU until now can't kill time at the highest framerates.
There was all of 2017 and most of 2016 to score a 1060/1070 or better for MSRP or less. Why is it now suddenly life and death? Prices will settle down. GPUs can still be found at MSRP if you keep an eye out.
Get a grip.
Finally, crying about gaming GPUs being used by greedy miners is to be frank, a shit argument. The GPUs are being allocated to the market and if gamers want them they can pay the higher prices. Hell, they can mine part time to get back the price premium if they want. Nothing is stopping people from doing this.
More demand for GPUs should spur more production which should lower prices. Isn't this just a temporary shortage?
I think he means (and i could be wrong) that the next generation of chips (volta/vega+/whatever) will have more production in general before the generation before it sold that much more. I can only guess that supplies are planned out way in advanced due to demand. If more people are buying now, then later on when they make production runs of the next series they'll be more because they can sell more.If by "temporary," you mean the 20 BILLION dollars and 2-3 years it will take to build and ramp-up new GPU silicon fab, then yes, it's only "temporary"
I think he means (and i could be wrong) that the next generation of chips (volta/vega+/whatever) will have more production in general before the generation before it sold that much more. I can only guess that supplies are planned out way in advanced due to demand. If more people are buying now, then later on when they make production runs of the next series they'll be more because they can sell more.
Volta should already have started production in the fabs. It should be a few more months until the 2080 is available to be purchased.
I don't know much specifics, but isn't that assume that TSMC is producing at max all the time? I think it would be strange to think that they're still producing 10XX series at maximum capacity and that it wouldn't ramp down over time to go along with demand.If TSMC has already maxed-out production for all their customers, how exactly will they increase production for Nvidia?
An unexpected increase in demand means you have to build new fabs. There's no magic production available TODAY that wasn't there 6 months ago.
The productivity already peaked in mid-2017, about a year after the new process tech was introduced in big chips.
You can't expect to just bump someone else's production run. Also, if Vega is just like Maxwell the die sizes will be larger, so it may REDUCE the number of cards per-wafer.
I don't know much specifics, but isn't that assume that TSMC is producing at max all the time? I think it would be strange to think that they're still producing 10XX series at maximum capacity and that it wouldn't ramp down over time to go along with demand.
More than likely there was some finance guy looking at demand for middle of the line models. Lets face it, if you're a gamer, you may just want to pay almost 1.5 to double to get the 1080/1080ti. If you're not and you're on a tight budget, 1060,1050 is probably more your style. Sitting in the middle is always an iffy proposition.That would explain the shortages THIS YEAR. But what about the GTX 1070 shortages since June of 2017? That's way before you start to ramp production of consumer Volta.
Prior to that rush, you could regularly get the cards at their new MSRP of $350.
Signs point to there not being enough PEAK production capacity to meet miner demand LEAST YEAR. Can you show me otherwise?
You cannot simply take a $699 video card and call it a luxury item/good. In fact, $699 and the definition of Luxury doesn't even belong in the same sentence. People are using current prices as a vehicle to make some errant point in regards to a free market, etc. All BS. Doesn't hold water, never will. In fact these same people of which you are one of them are proving my point for me.
Microcenter doesn't want to charge anymore for anything they sale than they have to. The logic being is that even if we raise our prices away from what we think miners would be willing to pay, at least we have those cards in stock for PC builders. The additional cost while unfortunate still sways the balance back towards gamers. Again, gamers did not cause this nightmarish state of affairs.
You're free to stand for what you want but remember this, if you stance is disruptive, doesn't align with the greater good of the community some people will take notice and remember that. All in all, it's not a really big deal but all of us have to decide what side of history we want to stand on. I admit I may or may not mine but my heart is truly with gamers. That's just what I believe in. There is room for both gamers and miners but I could never side with miners, ever. If the powers that be want to vastly increase production and support all of us, great but until that happens you're not going to catch me yapping about a Free Market and other ... clearly misguided BS babble that serves the few while the greater good goes without.
More than likely there was some finance guy looking at demand for middle of the line models. Lets face it, if you're a gamer, you may just want to pay almost 1.5 to double to get the 1080/1080ti. If you're not and you're on a tight budget, 1060,1050 is probably more your style. Sitting in the middle is always an iffy proposition.
1070 sat at msrp as long as supplies outweighed the demand. Then you add miners who probably can't find affordable 1080/1080tis and the roi between 1070 and 1080/1080ti isn't all that much different. I've heard many times from miners to buy lower end cards because they don't really scale in performance as much as you would think. It actually might be more efficient to get a 1070 when you look at the initial cost + electric costs for a mining rig than a 1080/ti.
Before mining really made it big this past year, demand on the supplies wasn't even really considered. This was a gaming only market. In the future there will more than likely be greater supply to make even more profits because it's now in their figures how much they can actually sell.
Also to reinforce this point (again, all assumptions here), the ones who are actually making money because of the low supply should be the retailers. I don't think nvidia has increased the cost of the chip, but then again i'm not privy to that info. If nvidia is still selling at the same pricepoint, then they're not making any money off this shortage and in fact they're losing (theoretically) money.