M3A2 Beta Project: Discontinued

[EnzoFX]

I take it things have gone off as planned? Looks like it all fits well. Sweet.

 

[ekuest]

this looks awesome cmadki! great work, you should be really proud of this thing. cant wait to see it with the power cables all hooked up, its going to be a tight fit!

 

[lvyelion]

Great work.

It now seems that the GPU needs to be secured. Unlike the normal virtical setup of GPU - it can sit and secured on the PCI-E slot and tight on the back of the chassis, on M3A2 prototype the GPU can only be tight on the back of the case. Need to find a way to secure the other end of GPU to the case

 

[CMadki4]

...Any word on the Samuel 17 if it fits?

Looks like it is going to fit, with maybe 0.5-1.0mm of clearance!

Man that looks like it is going to be a really tight fit for the pcie power cables.

Yes, it will be! There is 19mm between the edge of the PCB and the side panel, so technically enough, but it will be tight. As is the bane of SFF, lol

what kind of riser card is that? it almost looks like you are using two of them

The riser is a Foxconn, and there is a spacer there too. Just like the Tiki, the spacer is required to get the lower tabs of the graphics card PCI bracket to clear the motherboard I/) area. Otherwise, the card overlaps things like the audio or SMA jacks.

I take it things have gone off as planned? Looks like it all fits well. Sweet.

this looks awesome cmadki! great work, you should be really proud of this thing. cant wait to see it with the power cables all hooked up, its going to be a tight fit!

Indeed, it will be tight. If you use a graphics card that is 11" or shorter there is room at the end of the GPU to stuff extra cables.

Great work.

It now seems that the GPU needs to be secured. Unlike the normal virtical setup of GPU - it can sit and secured on the PCI-E slot and tight on the back of the chassis, on M3A2 prototype the GPU can only be tight on the back of the case. Need to find a way to secure the other end of GPU to the case

One might argue that the GPU is more secure than in a regular case. It is supported just like any other case, by the rear of the case and the PCIex16 socket, However, most cases have the GPU fastened to a 1.6mm or thinner rear panel and PCI mounting tab. The M3A2 has a 4mm rear panel and 6mm PCI mounting tab, so it is much more rigid. But I do plan on adding a little rubber foot/bumper to support the GPU against the bottom panel out at the end of the card. I tried to design a universal/adjustable support to clamp on the end of the card, but its damn near impossible to design something that is truly universal and isn't overly complicated/hard to make.

 

[voklskier4452]

Have to say this thing is looking pretty damn good. I was pretty happy with my SG-05 but I may have to reconsider after seeing all of this. My only concern would be cooling of the CPU. I remember seeing someone asking about the samuel 17 fitting, you still intend to test fit one of those, correct? I would love a nice solid aluminum case instead of my flimsy SG-05

 

[JoeH823]

Hmm, kind of makes me wonder if anyone makes right-angle adapters for the PCI-E power connectors.

 

[Rubixx]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Pin-to-6-Pin-PCI-E-90-Degree-right-angle-Extension-5-MADE-IN-USA-/130750509593

This seems like it would work nicely. There are also 2 molex->1 8pin right angle from the same seller.

 

[CMadki4]

Sorry for the poor quality iPhone pics. I'll do a better photo shoot with subsequent cases, but these I need to get shipped asap.

 

[CMadki4]

Have to say this thing is looking pretty damn good. I was pretty happy with my SG-05 but I may have to reconsider after seeing all of this. My only concern would be cooling of the CPU. I remember seeing someone asking about the samuel 17 fitting, you still intend to test fit one of those, correct? I would love a nice solid aluminum case instead of my flimsy SG-05

Yes, the Samual 17 should fit with just a hair of clearance. 70mm of CPU clearance allows for a few options. Plus, with the 120mm fan location directly over the CPU socket, you can mount nearly any cooler that would fit otherwise and mount a 120mm fan over it, even if its a 92mm cooler. CPU cooling should be no problem (considering the size of the case).

Hmm, kind of makes me wonder if anyone makes right-angle adapters for the PCI-E power connectors.

Few and far between, but someone does. I had less room on my old Shuttle SZ68R5 for the GPU power cables, but still managed to squeeze them in there without right-angle adapters or modifications.

 

[xyexz]

when and where can I buy one or two of these

 

[CMadki4]

when and where can I buy one or two of these

It might be awhile. I've gotta get through this first batch and then wait for feedback from the beta recipients and my own testing. Then I have review again to make sure it makes financial sense. It's taking a lot longer to machine that I originally estimated. But this is the first time they've ever been made. It gets quicker with each case.

 

[fixitman]

Have you considered selling a kit? All case parts, but unassembled and unpainted? I would be very interested in that.

 

[ellroy80]

Have you considered selling a kit? All case parts, but unassembled and unpainted? I would be very interested in that.

Not a terrible idea.

 

[CMadki4]

Have you considered selling a kit? All case parts, but unassembled and unpainted? I would be very interested in that.

I haven't. It wouldn't effect the price much. $10-15 probably. 98% of the work is in the machining and fabrication. Powder coating and assembly is relatively easy in comparison. But wouldn't hurt to offer it that way.

 

[xyexz]

It might be awhile. I've gotta get through this first batch and then wait for feedback from the beta recipients and my own testing. Then I have review again to make sure it makes financial sense. It's taking a lot longer to machine that I originally estimated. But this is the first time they've ever been made. It gets quicker with each case.

That's a bummer, I have a need for at least one of these pretty soon but perhaps I'll look elsewhere - these are great looking cases and I really think you've got a winner.

I'll keep watching this thread for updates on when you will make more - kicking myself that I didn't see the IGG campaign to be a beta tester

 

[EnzoFX]

Great pics. Can't wait to see a white one =D, or a mini/ultra mini version. Really hope it becomes viable, as I don't have an immediate need, but when I do, I know the mini is exactly what I want.

Am I the only one that doesn't care for the chromed out power button? heh.

 

[loneindustries]

Very nice work CMadki4! I hope you can make this viable. You've got a lot of flexibility doing all the work yourself, and obviously some great skills! Did the powder coat finish affect your tolerances/fit at all?

 

[PotOdds]

The biggest advantage of the M3A2 has over its mini-itx competitors is its super-small form factor that can hold a modern video card (2-slot). That should be a major selling point.

When you place it against another popular case like the mini-itx BitFenix Prodigy, the Prodigy is absolutely huge.

With the advent of NAS RAID drives that act as media servers, the need for large PC are fading. In fact, many people today forgo the PC altogether and rely on just laptops and media servers.

When you think about it, the only reason to have a PC case anymore is to have a decent video card for video gaming. So PC casing would break down into 2 categories, high end gaming (SLI, power cooling) and regular computing (most video cards are 2 slot variety). The NCASE M1 and M3A2 represent 2 of the most optimal cases for those categories.

I've looked at the alternatives versus M3A2.
- I'm not a hard core gamer so don't need SLI. If you are, the NCASE M1 is a better solution.
- LianLi has a similar small cases but they don't accommodate a 2 slot video card. Besides the fact that one slot video card are limited to lower end GPUs, the bigger problem is the fewer options for multi-monitor support. I personally use 3 monitors and find it optimal.

As for trend towards laptops, that might be inevitable but not till laptop can be as powerful as motherboards. Even Mini-ITX m/b are still much more powerful and efficient than the best laptops. Better RAM, better GPUs, better CPUs, better I/O. PC are still gonna be around for a while. But the trend will be towards SFF. It's just more efficient.

Excuse the diversion. This was just something that's been on my mind.

 

[EnzoFX]

The more praise the better =P. I made a similar rant early in the thread haha. There just isn't anything like this, people just need to see that. Aside from it being painfully obvious that this is the direction most people are/will be? going. Gone are the days of saying you want SFF, but then you feel you need full sized ATX PSU, or mATX board, or multiple 3.5 hdds, and those god awful optical drive bays lol. Then, it's only a matter of realizing most people get by with modest specs, and considering components are getting smaller, and more efficient, means they can do just fine in smaller enclosures.

 

[Robertmarcus]

really hope you consider to make these. I would love to have an htpc that looks that sweet.

 

[CMadki4]

Thank you for all the encouraging and kind words!

@loneindustries - yes, the powder coat definitely effects the final fit, but I took this into consideration when designing to make sure panels fit properly. You just have to allow for it in the dimensioning of each part.

 

[Diverge]

I'm impressed with the final results!

I was kinda skeptic, since you seemed all over the place with the CAD drawings. Had you launched the crowd funding after you figured out your final layout I probably would have went for a beta chassis.

Hopefully they become available, as I'd like to get one along with the M1

 

[CMadki4]

I'm impressed with the final results!

I was kinda skeptic, since you seemed all over the place with the CAD drawings. Had you launched the crowd funding after you figured out your final layout I probably would have went for a beta chassis.

Hopefully they become available, as I'd like to get one along with the M1

Being "all over the place" is kind of how it goes when designing something. I've never seen a design come to fruition in same form it started in. As is the nature of engineering and design work. I just chose to share the process and take input and remain flexible. And "final" design still isn't figured out. Hence the beta run. There are still changes to be made as I machine more and get results back from recipients. I needed the Indiegogo campaign to help figure out the design and to those that took the leap with me I am very grateful!

 

[Big Power]

Beautiful. Makes me want to fire up my CNC machine!

 

[Diverge]

Being "all over the place" is kind of how it goes when designing something. I've never seen a design come to fruition in same form it started in. As is the nature of engineering and design work. I just chose to share the process and take input and remain flexible. And "final" design still isn't figured out. Hence the beta run. There are still changes to be made as I machine more and get results back from recipients. I needed the Indiegogo campaign to help figure out the design and to those that took the leap with me I am very grateful!

Yeah, i understand how designing something goes. Just meant for me personally, I just thought the funding campaign started a little pre-mature before most of the dust settled. The only other crowd funded case I followed was M1, and they have a million pages of feedback, changes, ect, before the funding part. Just meant yours was kinda the reverse.

In any event, it looks really nice. If I don't get laid off at the end of the month then I'll be sure to buy one of them in the future

And I wish I had a CNC, i'm jealous!

 

[Drown Babies]

They already did 1 fundraising campaign just for the prototype. The next one is for actual production.

This one is just set up a little bit differently. Instead of funding 1 prototype we are funding 10 for actual users to test. But the M1 seems way more complicated and requires a lot more work to setup production, so it's understandable that they are doing it that way.

 

[EnzoFX]

Yup. With such a simple design here why not start it? It was only a matter of a few mm here and there from the start.

 

[updawg]

It has been about 5 days since the last post, and I am anxious to get mine, so any updates to report? Thanks for your hard work!

 

[CMadki4]

It has been about 5 days since the last post, and I am anxious to get mine, so any updates to report? Thanks for your hard work!

Expect some updates over the next week. I'm making a few tweaks to my machine and the part programs with what I learned making the first 4. I expect to have a couple more done soon. All the ASRock IR receivers and Lian Li feet are in for those that ordered them. Stay tuned!

 

[CMadki4]

So I've found a few hours this evening to do some testing, both thermal and fitment, on a rough test model. What I found right off the bat is that the drive bracket needs to be redesigned. Doesn't fit right with the power supply installed. That drive bracket has been a bear...

The other issue that cropped up is a little inteference between the USB3.0 and the GPU power cables. It fits, but is tight.

The GPU fits nicely and is VERY secure. No problem with portability and it remaining in place while being moved. I attribute that to it being fastened to the thick rear panel (4mm) and PCI tab (6mm). However, that thick PCI tab may cause interference with some ports on the GPU. My display port on my GTX580 is awfully close to the edge of the bracket.

For a quick and dirty thermal test I ran Furmark at 1080 for 15min. With a GTX 580 the fan topped at 60% and temps peaked at 81*C after about 12 minutes. This is with ZERO fans on the side panel. I expect fans will improve cooling drastically by completing the positive pressure concept. Without them the case is essentially passive. Because of this, it took the GPU a good 5 minutes or so to come back down to idle temps and fan speeds. Again, the addition of fans should remedy this.
EDIT: Worth noting is we aren't running the air conditioning this evening and the office is currently a nice balmy 83*F or 28*C.

 

[PotOdds]

Man, that looks pretty impressive. A grab-n-go kind of thing.

 

[TheMusketeer]

Is it possible you can make one that has a 3.5 drive bay as well as an option to have a 3.5 inch HDD? You're using a pci-e extender for that layout right? Does it have any affect on the latency?

 

[CMadki4]

Man, that looks pretty impressive. A grab-n-go kind of thing.

Thank you! It does come off as a battle ready box. Right to fight at a moment's notice, haha. I even like the raw unfinished aluminum look. That's how I'll probably be keeping mine until I decide on its final design.

Is it possible you can make one that has a 3.5 drive bay as well as an option to have a 3.5 inch HDD? You're using a pci-e extender for that layout right? Does it have any affect on the latency?

Fitting a 3.5" bay may not be feasible along with a 3.5" HDD. And it isn't really the sort of thing I'd like to do with this case. Custom orders are always a possibility, but that's on top of the base cost, of course.

Yes, it uses the same type PCIex16 riser setup as the Tiki. Riser angle + spacer. I have noticed any latency, no. Maybe others with more hours on a riser setup can weigh in. Often the risers are long ribbons, 150mm or longer, and perform without issue.

 

[updawg]

These should help with the clearence issues between the GPU and the USB3 plugs:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/360481460553?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

 

[CMadki4]

These should help with the clearence issues between the GPU and the USB3 plugs:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/360481460553?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

I may increase the width of the case 3-5mm to ensure better clearance so no one has to buy any additional parts. Good find though!

 

[Logan321]

I may increase the width of the case 3-5mm to ensure better clearance so no one has to buy any additional parts. Good find though!

There's nothing 90 degree about that adapter other than they just pulled the wires tight against one side of the connector and zap strapped them together. You can do the same thing to your supply connector for the cost of a zap strap.

 

[CMadki4]

There's nothing 90 degree about that adapter other than they just pulled the wires tight against one side of the connector and zap strapped them together. You can do the same thing to your supply connector for the cost of a zap strap.

While they aren't much more than that, there is a relief cutout on the side of the connector body for the wires to set down in and reduce the profile.

 

[ChronoDog]

While they aren't much more than that, there is a relief cutout on the side of the connector body for the wires to set down in and reduce the profile.

Take a set of gentle cutters and a few minutes of your time, and that can be easily achieved with any standard PCI-E connector as well

Also, a quick question - which SFX PSU were you using?
I see its intake was perfectly aligned with the air intake holes on the case, but there might be a slight issue with those being the way they are right now, because:

 

[CMadki4]

You are correct, the non-modular SFX lines up almost perfectly. Not dead center though, because the vents are extended toward the front of the case to accommodate the modular SFX as well. The modular version would be slightly more off center. However, the majority of the intake fan on the modular unit will have direct access to the vents and the other portion is still allowed air flow by means of an air gap. The PSU does not sit flat against the bottom panel, it is raised a little over 3mm. The vents cannot be elongated much towards the front of the case much because of a 10mm lip on the front panel. As is, the vents are placed to accommodate both PSUs. I could make the case 10mm deeper to remedy this, but I'm running with what I've got so far.

 

[ChronoDog]

Ah yes, I see that it's shifted a bit now that you've mentioned it.
Still, from the images provided thus far it seems possible to add another "hole" above the existing ones, for a total of eight.
It wouldn't hurt the non-modular version, and could help make the modular one run a bit quieter at load, I suppose