Looking for new keyboard.

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MaZa

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Looking for new keyboard. As an oldschool computer user, I have always used these old clackety clack keyboards. Either scavenged old keyboards or newer ones based on old technology. (at the moment I use Keytronic KT1000, great keyboard) Reason is simple, I can press almost unlimited number of keys at the same time, no matter what the combination. When keyboards at first started "evolve in technology" to smaller and lighter ones, the ability to press multiple keys was lost or atleast it was limited to certain combinations.

Is it still this case in nowadays? (I havent followed the evolution of keyboards, really) While my trusty Keytronic is still funcional, there is a thing that I would like to have: Backlighted keys. This would be so handy when playing in the dark whenever you suddenly loose "the feel" where the keys and your fingers are!

But this pressing multiple keys is a question mark. Being able to press any keys at the same time in any combination is important for me as a gamer.


One thing though, macro keys are not needed. Never felt the need for them with my old keyboards, and most likely they will remain unused in possible new ones, so personally I would like to not have them at all, they would just make the keyboard bigger.
 
Yup! When it comes to keyboards, old Keytronics and IBM (or clones) ones are the best when it comes to pure functionality. No tradeoffs inside, and pressure required to press the buttons is just right.

But I am just hoping there would be something similar/equally functional, but offering some modern gadgets with it, like the backlighting whick I would really like to have.
 
Saitek PZ30AU Black USB Wired Standard Eclipse Keyboard - Retail
Click to expand...

That looks funky! :D Though the wierd space between the keys looks quite big, it definetly seems what I am looking for. I'll look around for impressions and reviews for more information if it has any issues with pressing multiple keys.


edit:

Can't go wrong with Saitek for well-built, backlit, "old school" keyboards.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16823175001
Click to expand...

That looks even better! Thanks!
 
Still, more choices are welcome. I would like to hear every recommendation you all have.
 
I grew accustomed to MS' "natural" keyboard layout a long time ago so I'm using a MS Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 right now (quite a mouthful), had a MS Natural Keyboard Pro before it (the last white full-size model they put out previous to the shrunk Elite, w/the blue shortcut keys). Unlike other people I don't have a problem going back to a regular layout when I need to (work computers, my netbook) but I still find the natural-type layout much more comfortable for my personal system.
 
Looked around for Saitek PK02 Eclipse II impressions and found out that it apparently has issues with pressing multiple keys, atleast some combinations. Atleast cursor keys are said to be picky. Can anyone who owns this keyboard confirm this? :confused:


http://www.saitekforum.com/showthread.php?t=7223


Though this thread is mainly about Eclipse I, II is also covered.
 
I'm using a Deck Legend. Damn good keyboard. I won't have another membrane keyboard ever again if I can help it.
 
MaZa said:
Reason is simple, I can press almost unlimited number of keys at the same time, no matter what the combination. When keyboards at first started "evolve in technology" to smaller and lighter ones, the ability to press multiple keys was lost or atleast it was limited to certain combinations.
Click to expand...

This feature is known as n-key rollover. Since you seem to like mechanical keyboards I'd recommend this. It is lacking the backlighted keys, but it does support n-key rollover up to 6 keys via USB (thats the USB limit) and true n-key with the ps2 adapter. I have tried just about all of the major mechanical switch types and I must say brown Cherry switches are one of my favorites (especially for gaming). I just purchased a Filco board myself to replace the Compaq MX118000 I used to test out the Cherry brown switches. Build quality is great.
 
Mechanical eh? I wonder if there are mechanical/n-key rollover backlighted keyboards then. Though backlight probaply requires USB, but if that link is to be believed the maximum number of 6 keys on USB is more than enough.

Even in worst case scenario I can think about when gaming, 6 is enough. Like accelerating, steering, handbraking and switching gears at the same time. Thats 4.
 
Mechanical backlit keyboards, the only one I can think of is the Deck Dan_D mentioned. Cherry blacks are not tactile and have some pretty hefty springs in them. I personally have never tried them, and have no desire to (I like light springs in my switches), but Dan_D does seem to like his, so YMMV.
 
sayu said:
Mechanical backlit keyboards, the only one I can think of is the Deck Dan_D mentioned. Cherry blacks are not tactile and have some pretty hefty springs in them. I personally have never tried them, and have no desire to (I like light springs in my switches), but Dan_D does seem to like his, so YMMV.
Click to expand...


Yup. Just found out that myself. Already getting excited. :)

http://www.deckkeyboards.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=320



Now, here is the difficult part. Where to get one inside EU. They are not available here in Finland, but any EU vendor that ships internationally would be welcome. (edit: providing they also have ÅÖÄ keys, meaning scandinavian layout) Back to googling...


*edit* Apparently only US layout is available. What a dissapointment... :(
 
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sayu said:
Mechanical backlit keyboards, the only one I can think of is the Deck Dan_D mentioned. Cherry blacks are not tactile and have some pretty hefty springs in them. I personally have never tried them, and have no desire to (I like light springs in my switches), but Dan_D does seem to like his, so YMMV.
Click to expand...

Buckling spring switches are honestly a bit nicer than the type the Deck uses. However I've never seen that type back lit. Additionally the type the Deck uses aren't nearly as noisy as the buckling spring switches the IBM Model M and some others use.
 
Mr. Wolf said:
Can't go wrong with Saitek for well-built, backlit, "old school" keyboards.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823175001
Click to expand...

I don't know why Saitek got so popular. I bought one 3 years ago and it is horrible keyboard. it was nice at first but then paint worn off. keys are loud and not smooth when pressing at all.

I am searching for another one to replace the Saitek. I now got the Logitech illuminated keyboard. this keyboard beat Saitek hand down in very aspects.

backlit: Logitech wins. Logitech lights only through letters while Saitek lights the whole board with bleed everywhere

Paint : Logitech wins. Saitek paint over the key and it worn out or fade over time (big disappointment; what a waste of money). while logitech is laser-etched under the keys. so no way to wear out or fade.

Quality. Logitech is so thin but it is heavier than saitek (5bl vs 4 bl). saitek is thick and feel empty inside while logitech is solid.

Key press: Logitech keys are smooth, comfortable and quiet when pressing while Saitek keys are loud and no where near smooth.

hot keys: you can proprams funtion keys to do things like email, messaging, caculator, music, etc. Saitek can't do this.

Style: Logitech wins hand down. no debate.



I don't know why it took so long for Logitech to come out of this keyboard.
 
I don't know why Saitek got so popular. I bought one 3 years ago and it is horrible keyboard. it was nice at first but then paint worn off. keys are loud and not smooth when pressing at all.

I am searching for another one to replace the Saitek. I now got the Logitech illuminated keyboard. this keyboard beat Saitek hand down in very aspects.

backlit: Logitech wins. Logitech lights only through letters while Saitek lights the whole board with bleed everywhere

Paint : Logitech wins. Saitek paint over the key and it worn out or fade over time (big disappointment; what a waste of money). while logitech is laser-etched under the keys. so no way to wear out or fade.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure maybe you had an older revision. I have had mine for a while and no wear showing yet at all and i was a hardcore WoW Player for 3 years 16+ hours a week.

straight from the new egg description
Featuring a unique backlit look, the Saitek Eclipse II is ideal if you are a gamer who likes to game in the dark. Laser-etched keys lend the keyboard an elegant, slightly menacing appearance. Fully adjustable, the glow can be tuned to the barest light or greatest glow. The cushioned keys are soft, quiet and smooth, and cause almost no stress to your fingertips.
Click to expand...
 
The Saitek Eclipse 2 is a big improvement over the first version. There's a new version of the Eclipse but I've not seen it in person.
 
If you want a mechanical switch keyboard, look at the Deck keyboards. I have a Deck 82 and I absolutely love it. It feels great to type on and fits wonderfully on my keyboard tray. The backlight on this board is unmatched by anything else I've seen on the market (individual LED under each key).

http://www.deckkeyboards.com/

The Deck Legend is the full sized version of this board. I'm not 100% sure if it uses the same keyswitches as the Deck 82 or not.

There was a thread here at the [H] shooting the Deck keyboards down but to be honest, there are a number of other deck users around here who love their boards and I have to admit, I think this is my favorite keyboard to date. I also have a Das Keyboard but I'm almost inclined to admit that I like the feeling of typing on this Deck 82 better.
 
I'm currently debating between these four.

Saitek Eclipse III Black 104 Normal Keys USB Wired Standard Backlit Multimedia Keyboard - Retail

RAZER Lycosa Black 104 Normal Keys USB Wired Standard Gaming Keyboard - Retail

ENERMAX Caesar KB005U-B Black 104 Normal Keys 10 Function Keys USB Standard Meshed Keyboard - Retail

Aurora Premium ENERMAX KB007U-B Black 104 Normal Keys USB Standard Keyboard - Retail

all four got good reviews, but each has something that i don't like about them and am waiting until I build my i7 in the fall (even though i really need one now) to see if any new products come out that match what i need
 
Canon said:
If you want a mechanical switch keyboard, look at the Deck keyboards. I have a Deck 82 and I absolutely love it. It feels great to type on and fits wonderfully on my keyboard tray. The backlight on this board is unmatched by anything else I've seen on the market (individual LED under each key).

http://www.deckkeyboards.com/

The Deck Legend is the full sized version of this board. I'm not 100% sure if it uses the same keyswitches as the Deck 82 or not.

There was a thread here at the [H] shooting the Deck keyboards down but to be honest, there are a number of other deck users around here who love their boards and I have to admit, I think this is my favorite keyboard to date. I also have a Das Keyboard but I'm almost inclined to admit that I like the feeling of typing on this Deck 82 better.
Click to expand...



Already discussed above. Would probaply be a dream keyboard for me with full n-key support and all, but they dont offer scandinavian layouts... :(
 
Canon said:
If you want a mechanical switch keyboard, look at the Deck keyboards. I have a Deck 82 and I absolutely love it. It feels great to type on and fits wonderfully on my keyboard tray. The backlight on this board is unmatched by anything else I've seen on the market (individual LED under each key).

http://www.deckkeyboards.com/

The Deck Legend is the full sized version of this board. I'm not 100% sure if it uses the same keyswitches as the Deck 82 or not.

There was a thread here at the [H] shooting the Deck keyboards down but to be honest, there are a number of other deck users around here who love their boards and I have to admit, I think this is my favorite keyboard to date. I also have a Das Keyboard but I'm almost inclined to admit that I like the feeling of typing on this Deck 82 better.
Click to expand...

My Deck keyboard experience has been nothing but positive.
 
Currently using a Das Keyboard here, It is quite good. I come from years of IBM Model M boards.
The mechanical action is much lighter than the springs of the IBM, but still solid and defined. It feel is miles beyond any rubber dome type units.

It absolutely does support "n-key" presses or whatever you want to call it. I have tested.

USB connection, usb ports on the side.. glossy black, blank keys can be both striking or annoying if you aren't particularly adept with your typing.
 
kopfeldjager said:
Currently using a Das Keyboard here, It is quite good. I come from years of IBM Model M boards.
The mechanical action is much lighter than the springs of the IBM, but still solid and defined. It feel is miles beyond any rubber dome type units.

It absolutely does support "n-key" presses or whatever you want to call it. I have tested.

USB connection, usb ports on the side.. glossy black, blank keys can be both striking or annoying if you aren't particularly adept with your typing.
Click to expand...

They have a model that actually has the lettering on the keys now. I think that's the "Professional" model. I looked at that one too, but honeslty USB ports in the keyboard aren't a feature I use. I really went with Deck because of the back lighting. It just looks cool.
 
Dan_D said:
I'm using a Deck Legend. Damn good keyboard. I won't have another membrane keyboard ever again if I can help it.
Click to expand...

Interesting. The deck legend uses cherry MX black switches, which are non-clicky and non-tactile. I have heard them described as feeling very similar to rubber membrane keys, but with a much higher force requirement to depress the keys.
 
kopfeldjager said:
Currently using a Das Keyboard here, It is quite good. I come from years of IBM Model M boards.
The mechanical action is much lighter than the springs of the IBM, but still solid and defined. It feel is miles beyond any rubber dome type units.

It absolutely does support "n-key" presses or whatever you want to call it. I have tested.

USB connection, usb ports on the side.. glossy black, blank keys can be both striking or annoying if you aren't particularly adept with your typing.
Click to expand...

Are you using the Das Keyboard III Pro? Apparently there is a design flaw in the way the board tries to exceed the 6-key rollover limit of USB. If you press a group of keys simultaneously or in very close succession, the keyboard will automatically arrange the order of the keypresses into a predefined order. For example, if you type "asdf" "dasf" "fsad", etc. simultaneously or in very rapid succession, it will always come out as "asdf". You can read more about it here:

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=4691
 
Citizen Snips said:
Interesting. The deck legend uses cherry MX black switches, which are non-clicky and non-tactile. I have heard them described as feeling very similar to rubber membrane keys, but with a much higher force requirement to depress the keys.
Click to expand...

Not at all. They are much easier to press than the membrane keys. They don't have the buckling spring click, but they are far from not being "non-tactile."
 
bigwooly said:
I'm not sure maybe you had an older revision. I have had mine for a while and no wear showing yet at all and i was a hardcore WoW Player for 3 years 16+ hours a week.

straight from the new egg description
Click to expand...

check Newegg user review on Saitek keyboard and you will see many complains about paint being fade out over time. my saitek has 4 keys with paint disappear, including the CTRL key.
 
Dan_D said:
Not at all. They are much easier to press than the membrane keys. They don't have the buckling spring click, but they are far from not being "non-tactile."
Click to expand...

Here is what I read about the cherry MX black switches:

Cherry MX switches all have a similar physical design, but the different colored stems signify a different switch configuration. For example, the Cherry MX Black is a non-tactile, non-clicky switch--which is to say it is linear and does not transmit a bump to the user's fingertip when pressed and it does not provide an audible click. The Cherry MX Blue, however, is both tactile and clicky. And the Cherry MX Brown is tactile, but not clicky. And all three require different amounts of force to actuate, the heaviest being the Black model, followed by the Blue, and then the Brown.
Click to expand...

This quote comes from a blog posting that seems to do a good job of providing an overview of the different types of mechanical keyboards. The author even provided a video so you can hear what the various switches sound like:

http://hothardware.com/cs/blogs/mrt...hanical-key-switch-keyboards-demystified.aspx
 
In any case the Cherry Black MX switches may or may not be your preference, but they do make for a nice typing experience. I've had old IBM Model M keyboards and while I like those, I have to admit that the Cherry Black MX switches provide for a very smooth typing experience that is very pleasant. They feel easier to push down to me than membrane keyboards do. Though the key travel is longer.

Though they are both expensive options, I feel like the best choices out there are probably the Deck Legend, and the DAS Keyboard Professional model. Though I'd like the DAS Keyboard better if it was a more no frills design without the USB hub built into it.
 
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Dan_D said:
In any case the Cherry Black MX switches may or may not be your preference, but they do make for a nice typing experience. I've had old IBM Model M keyboards and while I like those, I have to admit that the Cherry Black MX switches provide for a very smooth typing experience that is very pleasant. They feel easier to push down to me than membrane keyboards do. Though the key travel is longer.

Though they are both expensive options, I feel like the best choices out there are probably the Deck Legend, and the DAS Keyboard Professional model. Though I'd like the DAS Keyboard better if it was a more no frills design without the USB hub built into it.
Click to expand...

My understanding of the word "tactile" was that you felt an actual "bump" as you were pressing the key down, but before the key hits the bottom of the keyboard. That bump is supposed to let you know when the keypress is actually registered by the keyboard. From reading the above blog post, it sounds like the cherry MX black switches have no such bump, and would therefore be considered "non-tactile".

I'll admit I'm a complete n00b when it comes to mechanical keyboards, and am only going off of what I've read. I've used the rubber dome ones my entire computing life and only recently stumbled on the geekhack forums and the above blog posting. I hated the feel of my current cheap $10 keyboard and was searching for something better.

Ultimately I'd like to actually try all of these different switches for myself and make up my own mind regarding which one I think is best. Everyone seems to have their own personal favorite.
 
Citizen Snips said:
My understanding of the word "tactile" was that you felt an actual "bump" as you were pressing the key down, but before the key hits the bottom of the keyboard. That bump is supposed to let you know when the keypress is actually registered by the keyboard. From reading the above blog post, it sounds like the cherry MX black switches have no such bump, and would therefore be considered "non-tactile".

I'll admit I'm a complete n00b when it comes to mechanical keyboards, and am only going off of what I've read. I've used the rubber dome ones my entire computing life and only recently stumbled on the geekhack forums and the above blog posting. I hated the feel of my current cheap $10 keyboard and was searching for something better.

Ultimately I'd like to actually try all of these different switches for myself and make up my own mind regarding which one I think is best. Everyone seems to have their own personal favorite.
Click to expand...

Yes. That is considered "tactile." In any case while I have a non-tactile, non-clicky mechanical keyboard, I do prefer tactile and clicky. Unfortunately they don't have any that are backlit the way the Deck Legend is. Anyway the Deck keyboard feels great anyway. Especially coming from a few years of membrane based keyboards which I've never liked.
 
I have the Saitek Eclipse II and it's a decent keyboard. Nothing really bad about it but I don't think there is anything really special about it either. The "S" key on mine is the only one that is chipping off, probably from all the face rolling on it. It's very well built keyboard but I think the keys could definately but a lot quieter. As for the multiple button issue, I don't think I've really ever experienced it before. Sometimes I think my H button might not be working, but I type stuff so fast it's most likely my fault.

I've personally been wanting try out one of Razor's keyboards. The Eclipse II isn't a very visual appealing keyboard as some others are but it's still nice.
 
sayu said:
There is a board with tactile (Cherry blue) switches and backlit keys, but I can't say it's build quality will be the best. http://www.ione.com.tw/2008/product/wdkb-SC-M10 BL.asp
Click to expand...

I've been doing some searching and it seems the only choices for blue cherry switches right now are the Das Keyboard III, which has simultaneous keypress issues, and the scorpius m10, which is apparently poorly constructed. If you are willing to use a slightly non-standard key layout, there is also the Cherry G80-3000LSCRC-2.

Am I missing any others?
 
The G80-3000LSCRC-2 is the standard US layout. The RC stands for Republic of China so there will be some Chinese characters on the keys, but their key layout is the same as the US. And for the OP, the G80-3000 does come in EU layouts (Cherry is in Germany after all) and is available in multiple switch types.
 
sayu said:
The G80-3000LSCRC-2 is the standard US layout. The RC stands for Republic of China so there will be some Chinese characters on the keys, but their key layout is the same as the US. And for the OP, the G80-3000 does come in EU layouts (Cherry is in Germany after all) and is available in multiple switch types.
Click to expand...

Maybe "non-standard layout" was too strong of a term, but from looking at the pic of it here:

http://hothardware.com/cs/blogs/mrt...hanical-key-switch-keyboards-demystified.aspx

I can see that the enter key is shaped weird, the left shift is half-sized, and the backslash key is not in its usual position. There may be other differences, but I can't tell because that picture isn't particularly high quality.
 
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