Linux gaming on the rise

IT'S HAPPENING!

It's nice that there's so much to be entertained by on Linux now. I feel it's being overhyped, but I'm looking forward to seeing Vulkan push more titles.
 
I found my metal box of Quake 3 for Linux over the weekend. I was tempted to install it on my Linux Server to try to play this past weekend.
 
bigdogchris said:
Accurately represents the FPS of most games ported to Linux
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Sorry, but bullshit.

I can play Shadows of Mordor on my HTPC (which isn't top-of-the-line, by any stretch) at 1920x1080 just fine. It probably does't get 156 fps, but I don't care if it does. I just care if it plays smoohtly.
 
Yippee38 said:
Sorry, but bullshit.

I can play Shadows of Mordor on my HTPC (which isn't top-of-the-line, by any stretch) at 1920x1080 just fine. It probably does't get 156 fps, but I don't care if it does. I just care if it plays smoohtly.
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I think he was being sarcastic. It was an obvious zinger. :D
 
Note that one thing almost all these titles have in common is that they use a DirectX to OpenGL converter, rather then re-coding specifically for Linux. As expected, there are performance issues associated. Nevermind in most cases anything besides the proprietary NVIDIA driver results in crap performance.

So yes, if you consider releasing a native Linux client using a DirectX to OpenGL render instead of just using WINE is progress, then yes, progress.
 
Steam's hardware survey does not indicate a rise in Linux adoption at all. The number of Steam users running Linux has actually declined from it's all-time peak of a staggering 1.5%.

The numbers that Linux advocates use to back up claims of a Linux gaming surge are the amount of Linux ports on Steam. Even then, the numbers are fudged, as the Steam Store counts individual pieces of DLC as games. If you sort games on Steam by platform, then filter out all DLC, the amount of Linux games (large majority of which are rudimentary Indie titles) available on Steam gets cut nearly in half.

I'm sorry, but the numbers simply do not support claims of a "rise" in Linux gaming.
 
The day I can run my entire Steam library on Linux natively is the day I divorce from Windows.
 
crusty_juggler said:
Steam's hardware survey does not indicate a rise in Linux adoption at all. The number of Steam users running Linux has actually declined from it's all-time peak of a staggering 1.5%.

The numbers that Linux advocates use to back up claims of a Linux gaming surge are the amount of Linux ports on Steam. Even then, the numbers are fudged, as the Steam Store counts individual pieces of DLC as games. If you sort games on Steam by platform, then filter out all DLC, the amount of Linux games (large majority of which are rudimentary Indie titles) available on Steam gets cut nearly in half.

I'm sorry, but the numbers simply do not support claims of a "rise" in Linux gaming.
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It makes sense though. About 1% of people run Linux derived OSs. Steam reports about 1% of it's user base run Linux derived OSs. Sounds about right, for obvious reasons.

Devs are just looking for revenue streams because Windows is so saturated. Then they find out there isn't a Linux market, and stop doing all but trivial ports.
 
Being a full time Linux user I've been keeping an eye on the development side for gaming for a long time. Here is the facts; the hardware vendors will not put 100% support behind Linux until a lot more of the gaming public takes it seriously. Currently most linux desktops operation on open source drivers or half-ass written drivers from the vendors which in some cases preform worse in the open source driver. This is simply a calculation done by AMD and Nvidia. Since few people game on linux (relatively) why are we spending time and money optimizing drivers for it. The AAA game developers do this same calculation.

The up side is the tide is slowly changing. With Microsofts antics with pushing Win10 more and more people are considering the alternative.
 
Dr. Righteous said:
Being a full time Linux user I've been keeping an eye on the development side for gaming for a long time. Here is the facts; the hardware vendors will not put 100% support behind Linux until a lot more of the gaming public takes it seriously. Currently most linux desktops operation on open source drivers or half-ass written drivers from the vendors which in some cases preform worse in the open source driver. This is simply a calculation done by AMD and Nvidia. Since few people game on linux (relatively) why are we spending time and money optimizing drivers for it. The AAA game developers do this same calculation.

The up side is the tide is slowly changing. With Microsofts antics with pushing Win10 more and more people are considering the alternative.
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I really dont think people who game specifically are considering using Linux as an deskop OS alternative. Don't get your hopes up, I dont foresee any shift in computing that will move enough people that game to Linux. The Alternative to Win10 isnt linux its Windows 7 to be honest.
 
///AMG said:
I really dont think people who game specifically are considering using Linux as an deskop OS alternative. Don't get your hopes up, I dont foresee any shift in computing that will move enough people that game to Linux. The Alternative to Win10 isnt linux its Windows 7 to be honest.
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Understood but consider the fact that MS is making DX12 a Win10 only API thus twisting the arm of gamers (again) to upgrade.
What is the alternative? Linux with Vulkan. As it stands Vulkan is likely to see greater adoption from developers since it is cross platform.
Also Win10 offers few (if any) refinements to the desktop to make people want to upgrade and is essentially a OS for a data mining revenue stream for MS. This in a time when everyone is concerning about their privacy and the pervasive data mining on smart phones and other computing devices.
MS pushed a win7 update that installed nagware to cause "upgrade to win10" popups on win7 desktop. You couldn't turn it off. You have to hack the registry to disable it. It really sounds desperate to me.
Really MS could release their on .NIX base OS that is optimized for graphics and fully supported by the current support channels they have. I think it would be a hit and good for everyone. But I don't expect it to happen any time soon.
 
Dr. Righteous said:
What is the alternative? Linux with Vulkan.
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Why not Windows with Vulkan though? If it's likely going to see great adoption from developers due to it's cross-platform nature, why would a gamer need to ditch his entire OS (and a large majority of his Steam library) to use it?
 
crusty_juggler said:
Why not Windows with Vulkan though? If it's likely going to see great adoption from developers due to it's cross-platform nature, why would a gamer need to ditch his entire OS (and a large majority of his Steam library) to use it?
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Yeah, there will be VulKan for windows; but since the same API runs on both Windows and Linux there will be more interest from both developer and gamer. Since Linux costs $0, no licence to buy; what is stopping them? Certainly not a threat from Microsoft.

I don't think there will be a rush to rewrite old titles to run Vulkan. Old games will remain old games with the except of porting game to Android and iOS to run under Vulkan since it will make it possible on less powerful hand helds.
 
Dr. Righteous said:
Since Linux costs $0, no licence to buy; what is stopping them?
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The same things that have been holding back Linux adoption for over 20 years; poor game, hardware and app parity in comparison to Windows.

The free with a lower-case f nature of Linux has had zero effect on it's market share for it's entire lifespan. 99% of gamers would rather pay a little extra for broad compatibility with their Steam library then save a few dollars and be unable to play their games.

Saving $100 or so in exchange for seeing your Steam library reduced by 75% or more isn't a logical trade-off, and gamers have consistently rejected it.
 
Bring it on VulKan. Windows 10 is driving me crazy witb these automatoc updates.

Oh, here you go, here's your update you didn't ask for. Sigh!
 
crusty_juggler said:
Why not Windows with Vulkan though? If it's likely going to see great adoption from developers due to it's cross-platform nature, why would a gamer need to ditch his entire OS (and a large majority of his Steam library) to use it?
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Because DX is very tightly integrated into Windows, so you have superior performance and development tools to work with.
 
crusty_juggler said:
The same things that have been holding back Linux adoption for over 20 years; poor game, hardware and app parity in comparison to Windows.

The free with a lower-case f nature of Linux has had zero effect on it's market share for it's entire lifespan. 99% of gamers would rather pay a little extra for broad compatibility with their Steam library then save a few dollars and be unable to play their games.

Saving $100 or so in exchange for seeing your Steam library reduced by 75% or more isn't a logical trade-off, and gamers have consistently rejected it.
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I've more or less left what's "windows only" behind. I'm looking at it like I did with consoles. The PS3 wouldn't play my PS2 titles, and I found that I was mostly playing new games on my (then) new console. Should I feel the need to go play GTA Vice City, I'd hook up the old PS2 and go.
Such is it's the same with computing. The new games I want to play (ex. Xcom2) are increasingly available on Linux. That plus Linux being more the base computing experience I want (and free as in freedom and all that), makes it quite acceptable to run full time. Should I get the nostalgia bug, I can always dig up a Windows machine to run it, or see if I can get it to work with Wine. Most of the free time will be spent with new titles.
 
I really want to run linux, I have some experience with red hat at work, I can navigate using the terminal and such, run things, use gedit, ect. But when I get home, I want my computer to have native compatibility with most things, when I didnt have a job I was more likely to tinker with things. At the same time, I HATE my normal work computer (A win 7 Box) because it takes 15 min for a Xenon 16Gig Ram PC to boot up, and FOREVER to open a damn autocad file, when I head into the lab, and use the Red Hat machine (which is still on a C2D), it has tons of things running in the back ground and I compile large programs on it with no problems. Thing is that, that computers OS is highly customized to work in our lab, I cannot fathom the time it would take me to do the same. And netflix doesnt "just work", autocad, eagle, CodeComposer, also dont "just work", so I am in a constant confliction.
 
Dr. Righteous said:
Understood but consider the fact that MS is making DX12 a Win10 only API thus twisting the arm of gamers (again) to upgrade.
What is the alternative? Linux with Vulkan. As it stands Vulkan is likely to see greater adoption from developers since it is cross platform.
Also Win10 offers few (if any) refinements to the desktop to make people want to upgrade and is essentially a OS for a data mining revenue stream for MS. This in a time when everyone is concerning about their privacy and the pervasive data mining on smart phones and other computing devices.
MS pushed a win7 update that installed nagware to cause "upgrade to win10" popups on win7 desktop. You couldn't turn it off. You have to hack the registry to disable it. It really sounds desperate to me.
Really MS could release their on .NIX base OS that is optimized for graphics and fully supported by the current support channels they have. I think it would be a hit and good for everyone. But I don't expect it to happen any time soon.
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Mac? There are more games for OS X then there is for Linux. People who are willing to spend money on their hardware are also willing to spend money in the store. High profile games are in the OSX store, as far as I know there is not a store that exists on Linux to easily download paid programs. Linux probably would never allow the DRM features that AAA game devs would want in order to bring their programs over.


darktechno said:
I really want to run linux, I have some experience with red hat at work, I can navigate using the terminal and such, run things, use gedit, ect. But when I get home, I want my computer to have native compatibility with most things, when I didnt have a job I was more likely to tinker with things. At the same time, I HATE my normal work computer (A win 7 Box) because it takes 15 min for a Xenon 16Gig Ram PC to boot up, and FOREVER to open a damn autocad file, when I head into the lab, and use the Red Hat machine (which is still on a C2D), it has tons of things running in the back ground and I compile large programs on it with no problems. Thing is that, that computers OS is highly customized to work in our lab, I cannot fathom the time it would take me to do the same. And netflix doesnt "just work", autocad, eagle, CodeComposer, also dont "just work", so I am in a constant confliction.
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I would say that your work experience largely follows your IT departments experience. If your windows platform runs terrible, but you have a highly customized Linux desktop, it's not too hard to figure out which one they understand better. I'm all about using what works, so if you can perform your job better with the Linux machine, then I say use it. If you simply can't accomplish the task or you're constantly trying to find work arounds to make something work, then it's a wasted effort. That's how I would qualify gaming on Linux right now. Sure you might be able to get it to work, but if you spend more time figuring out how to make it work than playing, it's not giving you the best experience.
 
bman212121 said:
<snip>High profile games are in the OSX store, as far as I know there is not a store that exists on Linux to easily download paid programs. Linux probably would never allow the DRM features that AAA game devs would want in order to bring their programs over.
</snip>
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There are some players in the linux 'app store' type of space. Of course the obvious one is Steam. It's been creeping, but they're carrying more and more non-game software titles now too.
Canonical also has an app store.
 
Linux Gaming: Rising

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heatlesssun said:
That makes no sense unless your hard drive is a floppy.
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The machine I work on is LOADED with security software, I work for a defense contractor so our machines are supposed to be very powerful, but with all the security measures, it makes them feel like potatoes.
 
Frobozz said:
There are some players in the linux 'app store' type of space. Of course the obvious one is Steam. It's been creeping, but they're carrying more and more non-game software titles now too.
Canonical also has an app store.
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Yea Steam is about the only one that has actual commercial games / titles in it. I went through more than half of the pages in Canonical's App store and the only recognizable title was a F2P version of command and conquer. There are a couple of low cost paid items but definitely nothing I've heard of. Not saying that Steam is a bad thing but it certainly doesn't have enough to make it a compelling platform by itself. If I wanted to play some version of COD or GTA, your choices include playstation, xbox, Nintendo, Windows, Mac, iOS, and Android. Some version of Battlefield is on most of those as well. You do get DOTA2, but not LoL. Without Steam there is approx a 0% chance I wouldn't have to restart my computer to play a game with someone. Thankfully several of the games I own on Steam do work on Linux so it's about a 10% chance I could play something without having to restart.
 
bman212121 said:
Yea Steam is about the only one that has actual commercial games / titles in it. I went through more than half of the pages in Canonical's App store and the only recognizable title was a F2P version of command and conquer. There are a couple of low cost paid items but definitely nothing I've heard of. Not saying that Steam is a bad thing but it certainly doesn't have enough to make it a compelling platform by itself. If I wanted to play some version of COD or GTA, your choices include playstation, xbox, Nintendo, Windows, Mac, iOS, and Android. Some version of Battlefield is on most of those as well. You do get DOTA2, but not LoL. Without Steam there is approx a 0% chance I wouldn't have to restart my computer to play a game with someone. Thankfully several of the games I own on Steam do work on Linux so it's about a 10% chance I could play something without having to restart.
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I just found that GOG is on Linux too.
 
darktechno said:
The machine I work on is LOADED with security software, I work for a defense contractor so our machines are supposed to be very powerful, but with all the security measures, it makes them feel like potatoes.
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Let me guess, Sophos products? :D The parent company of a former employer tried to force that on us after acquisition, and we vigorously fought them off. Peoples' work machines would quite literally take 10 minutes to boot, like you're describing. Full drive encryption being the main culprit. Then, if someone forgot (or updated and forgot) their password, they had to call into the helpdesk, and get someone to unlock it which was a fairly lengthy process. Luckily we asserted ourselves before they could do that to us. :D In the end though they went out of business. (probably because it took so long to boot computers that nobody could work) Our running joke was "So secure, you can't do your job!"

Good security is... good... However, there is a definitely line where overdoing things hinders productivity and employee good will...

As to the actual topic here, I would love to give Linux another shot sometime soon. I've got plenty of machines in the house, so popping it on one to give it a try (for strictly gaming purposes) is no big deal. There is actually a very sizable chunk of my Steam collection that is supported. I'm not expecting miracles, but Microsoft is really pushing buttons with me that they ought not push lately.
 
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darktechno said:
The machine I work on is LOADED with security software, I work for a defense contractor so our machines are supposed to be very powerful, but with all the security measures, it makes them feel like potatoes.
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That actually makes complete sense if you are using an Xbox 360 CPU in your work PC, as they came out in 2003.
 
I don't know, I've been hearing that Linux gaming was on the rise since the early 2000s back when Loki Games was popular. By the time Linux got any significant traction, Windows XP was out with a few service packs and corrected all the things about Windows 98 and ME that were causing people like me to ragequit and go to Linux. I expect that Microsoft will back off of anything that alienates enough users long before they lose significant market share.

By the way, those original Loki Games titles like SimCity 3000 are a real pain to run on modern Linux because they rely on ancient versions of glibc, and it only ever worked well on a specific version of Red Hat anyway without a lot of fuss. The Windows version is now easier to run via Wine than the Linux version is to mess with at all. Back then, the favored edition of Linux for businesses trying to support Linux was Red Hat. Now it's Ubuntu. The problem with Linux is that it's made by tinkerers who like everything open source, and change or break things all the time. They would rather have things work well than be backwards compatible or binary compatible, and they expect you to be able to recompile old stuff against new libraries. They actually frown on binary drivers, and some distributions won't include them even if they exist.

Linux is too ideological for your average profit-seeking corporation, if you ask me. Too enmeshed with the GNU/GPL types who think copyrights are an abomination... the tech world's version of hippies, to make a bad analogy (I like them, don't get me wrong... but they strike me as idealistic and impractical people). Something like FreeBSD that isn't under GPL might have a better chance, but it's not as well-known, and the Linux people have too much influence over what becomes popular in the Unix/Posix world these days, to the point that you get a lot of the same problems. I think a commercial OS that's basically Posix compliant under the hood might take off in the future if Microsoft really screws up badly, but I don't think that OS will be Linux (although it might have a simulation layer to run Linux stuff like FreeBSD does).

If anything pushes Linux into the consumer space, it will almost have to be something like a PC version of Android. Android is based on the Linux kernel, but a lot of the stuff it interfaces is with is closed source. I think they even have their own Libc and run most stuff inside a VM partly to get around the GPL requirements. Ubuntu might evolve into something like that, but I don't see it happening. If Atom processors take off in tablets and we start seeing a lot of x86 Android tablets, though... that might slowly creep over to the desktop side in some form, too. So far the ARM/x86 divide has protected Microsoft from Android and iOS (and vice-versa), but if that wall ever breaks down... they're potentially in trouble.
 
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///AMG said:
I really dont think people who game specifically are considering using Linux as an deskop OS alternative. Don't get your hopes up, I dont foresee any shift in computing that will move enough people that game to Linux. The Alternative to Win10 isnt linux its Windows 7 to be honest.
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Just because they don't use Linux for gaming doesn't mean they don't also run Linux. I run both and can easily relegate Windows to gaming duties only if I choose.
 
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