LG 48CX

Pastuch

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this is my experience regarding view distance


It seems like if you subtract about 1/6th of the monitor's diagonal size you get a rough estimate of a reasonable "nearest" viewing distance to work from. (rough "nearest" estimate, not necessarily "best" distance).



Monitor size divided by 6 , times 5 = viewing distance

------------------------------------------------------------------------

15" = 12.5" (around 1')

27" = 22.5" (a bit under 2')

32" = 26.6" (a few inch past 2')

43" = 35.8" (about 3')

48" = 40" viewing distance (or greater)

55" = 45.8" (3.8' - 4')

65" = 54.16" (4.5')

70" = 58.33" (4.86' - 5')



---------------------------------------------

Right now I'm too close considering I use three monitors. At just over 3 feet viewing distance Iooking at my middle 32" 16:9 monitor, I can sort of see about 30% to 40% of the nearest side of each 43" side monitor without tilting my eyes or rotating my neck much. When I want to look at either of my side 43 inch monitors more, I spin my chair to face them fully more or less. My "sub desk" which is independent of the long narrow desk my monitors is on is a crescent shaped desk which is on wheels as well so can spin a bit either way easily if I want it to.

----------------------------------------------




Regarding burn-in. SDR is way lower brightness than HDR so not as surprising about the desktop. Personally I'd still hide the taskbar and any icons and use an all black background on any oled in my array.. I'd also use other monitor(s) in an array for non media stuff whenever I could.

From https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c9-oled
View attachment 227797


... games use hybrid log gamma where you can move the white point and gamma brighter which can make things out of bounds one extreme or the other. IDK of much content that would blast max nits fullscreen sustained unless it was a poorly done game with a bad white point/gamma scale.

A 800nit or higher peak is impossible on OLEDs outside of peak 10% window of highlights and before ABL kicks in.

A C9 OLED's HDR can only do
Fullscreen peak/burst: 301 nit ... Fullscreen sustained: 286 nit
50% peak/burst: 530nit ... 50% sustained: 506nit
25% peak/burst: 845nit ... 25% sustained: 802nit
10% peak/burst: 855nit .. 10% sustained: 814nit


A Samsung Q90's HDR for comparison since it's LED LCD and very bright
Fullscreen peak/burst: 536 nit ... Fullscreen sustained: 532 nit
50% peak/burst: 816nit ... 50% sustained: 814nit
25% peak/burst: 1275nit ... 25% sustained: 1235nit
10% peak/burst: 1487nit .. 10% sustained: 1410nit

Terrific post and I love your optimum viewing distance formula, it matches what I prefer exactly! Thank you!

I used to worry about my pc habits and burn-in but after 3 years I just don't care anymore. I don't have any burn-in and the TV still looks incredible. The only thing I just can't abide is the low refresh rate on my C7. I need 120hz so badly.

Your point above about full screen brightness peaks on OLED vs LCD is largely irrelevant for PC use. At 40 inches seating distance from the 48 inch model I guarantee you won't want even 300 nits blasting you in the face. On my 55 inch LG C7 I was running only 40 OLED light and it was still insanely bright.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/computer-monitor-buying-guide/
Brightness: High-end monitors these days have brightness around 300 to 350 cd/m2. Extra brightness may be handy if you work in a well-lit room or next to large windows. However, too much brightness is a recipe for eye strain. As long as brightness options reach 250 cd/m2, your monitor is good to go. That said, if you want one with HDR support, the more peak brightness the better to best take advantage of that technology.


1583379104215.png

This bit is so amazing because 250 is a decent brightness setting for PC use and I'm not wild about ABL.

Regarding ergonomics, I use the Ikea Bekant Standing Desk so the 32 inch depth (width) may be a bit short. I'm probably going to arm mount this time.

Anyone know a good monitor arm for a 15kg (33 pound) display? Without the stand it probably only weighs 30 pounds or less.

Ikea Bekant:
Length: 63 " (160 cm)
Width: 31 1/2 " (80 cm)

LG 2020 OLED 48 inch
1583383866175.png
 
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kasakka

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Anyone know a good monitor arm for a 15kg (33 pound) display? Without the stand it probably only weighs 30 pounds or less.

I would recommend the Ergotron HX because it seems to have a far more heavy duty tilt features than most others. I got a Multibrackets VESA gas lift arm "HD" that was supposed to support up to 21 kg but because of its tilt feature my 49" super ultrawide tilts forward on it probably due to its width. This is a pretty common problem on monitor arms when you put heavy or wide displays on one. I'll return the Multibrackets arm and the the Ergotron. You will also need a VESA 300x200 adapter bracket unless they have changed it for the 48" model but pretty much any adapter that goes from VESA 100x100 to 300x200 should work fine.
 

elvn

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I have the ergotron LX HD monitor arms. They are huge and pricey but I love them. Their prices fluctuate to even higher but with patience I got mine at $250 rather than $280 or $330. Their specs say they can hold 30 pounds but I bet they could hold more if you tighten the allen screws/springs. The 55" C9 is 41.7 Lbs without the stand from the specs I've seen. The 65" is 55.6 Lb without the stand. Hopefully the 48" will be less than 40 Lbs.

I would recommend the Ergotron HX because it seems to have a far more heavy duty tilt features than most others. I got a Multibrackets VESA gas lift arm "HD" that was supposed to support up to 21 kg but because of its tilt feature my 49" super ultrawide tilts forward on it probably due to its width. This is a pretty common problem on monitor arms when you put heavy or wide displays on one. I'll return the Multibrackets arm and the the Ergotron. You will also need a VESA 300x200 adapter bracket unless they have changed it for the 48" model but pretty much any adapter that goes from VESA 100x100 to 300x200 should work fine.

The HX arm seems smaller (could just be the photo) - but it does say it supports up to 41 Lbs so would be a more sure bet weight wise. Good to have another option, thanks. They go for around $265 + tax so are in the same ballpark as the ergotron LX HD ones. EDIT: I think they are smaller but made a lot stronger to 41 LB probably so that they're capable of having a dual LCD bracket on them to support two smaller lcds from what I've seen in some of the pictures/models of the ergotron HX.


I'll definitely give it a try on the ergotron LX arm I already own whenever I get a 48" CX. Otherwise I may just keep it on my long bent ended (aslant "J" sweep?) bench desk against a wall, building it up with a black shelf stand if necessary for a little more height. Another option is putting it on one of those TV flat metal spine pillar style stands that have a wall mount attached to the top of the spine essentially, and tucking it behind my desk.



My main peripheral desk is an overlapping (height adjustable) half-circle desk on caster wheels so I can vary my view distance easily on the fly. That will also allow me to tuck my circular desk back up against the monitor one at the wall when not in use. So I'll probably end up with the ergotron arms on the side monitors, perhaps in landscape mode for a PLP-ish look, and shelf+stand mount the 48" CX in portrait as the media/gaming "stage". I can't see me needing to adjust the angle and height of the 48" cx much if ever once placed properly but I do like the option as well as the floating look that quality monitor arms give. I've seen pictures of a lot of interesting setups so I'm not yet sure exactly what layout I'll go with yet.

The ergotron LX HD on a cintiq 27" art/drawing screen from lawrencecandraw on youtube:
tLjgHlr.png

Me installing the arm on one of my 43" 4k VA tvs-as-monitors. It came with some vesa extension "wing" arms that connected from the main arm's vesa holes to make a metal "X" but I had that plasma adapter plate so I used that instead.

FOIkbxK.jpg

TV pillar stand options:

"TV Stand with Tilting & Swiveling Bracket, Fits Monitors 32”-70” - Black" ~ $153 + tax
  • Fits Screens 32”- 70"
  • VESA Compatibility 600x400
  • 90-lb Weight Capacity
  • Integrated Cable Management System
  • Flat Base


N6oCXNV.png
 
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elvn

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Your point above about full screen brightness peaks on OLED vs LCD is largely irrelevant for PC use. At 40 inches seating distance from the 48 inch model I guarantee you won't want even 300 nits blasting you in the face. On my 55 inch LG C7 I was running only 40 OLED light and it was still insanely bright.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/computer-monitor-buying-guide/
Brightness: High-end monitors these days have brightness around 300 to 350 cd/m2. Extra brightness may be handy if you work in a well-lit room or next to large windows. However, too much brightness is a recipe for eye strain. As long as brightness options reach 250 cd/m2, your monitor is good to go. That said, if you want one with HDR support, the more peak brightness the better to best take advantage of that technology.

Yes if you follow hdtvtest on youtube he always shows examples of how details are lost when the lower *color* brightness limits (color volume height limits) are reached because they then clip to white (or roll down to the same color brightness limit as the best color limit the screen can reach losing gradation) .. So they lose any detail that goes past that and leave a uniform area.

People need to realize having colors throughout brightness in colored highlights and details and a few colored light sources, reflections, etc.. while the rest of the scene generally remains in SDR ranges is not the same as taking the relative brightness of a SDR screen's brightness control "knob" and turning the whole screen to "11".


think of HDR normally sort of like having a screen size slide of film with varied levels of transparency that the light is shining through, of which the brightest pass throughs are mostly highlights of bright colors. On SDR screens and low peak nit HDR screens those colors would be clipped to white or rolled down from at a much lower color volume ceiling.
Then consider that the locations are often moving.

https://www.theverge.com/2014/1/6/5276934/dolby-vision-the-future-of-tv-is-really-really-bright

"The problem is that the human eye is used to seeing a much wider range in real life. The sun at noon is about 1.6 billion nits, for example, while starlight comes in at a mere .0001 nits; the highlights of sun reflecting off a car can be hundreds of times brighter than the vehicle’s hood. The human eye can see it all, but when using contemporary technology that same range of brightness can’t be accurately reproduced. You can have rich details in the blacks or the highlights, but not both.
So Dolby basically threw current reference standards away. "Our scientists and engineers said, ‘Okay, what if we don’t have the shackles of technology that’s not going to be here [in the future],’" Griffis says, "and we could design for the real target — which is the human eye?" To start the process, the company took a theatrical digital cinema projector and focused the entire image down onto a 21-inch LCD panel, turning it into a jury-rigged display made up of 20,000 nit pixels. Subjects were shown a series of pictures with highlights like the sun, and then given the option to toggle between varying levels of brightness. Dolby found that users wanted those highlights to be many hundreds of times brighter than what normal TVs can offer: the more like real life, the better.
 
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Pastuch

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I have the ergotron LX HD monitor arms. They are huge and pricey but I love them. Their prices fluctuate to even higher but with patience I got mine at $250 rather than $280 or $330. Their specs say they can hold 30 pounds but I bet they could hold more if you tighten the allen screws/springs. The 55" C9 is 41.7 Lbs without the stand from the specs I've seen. The 65" is 55.6 Lb without the stand. Hopefully the 48" will be less than 40 Lbs.



The HZ arm seems smaller (could just be the photo) - but it does say it supports up to 41 Lbs so would be a more sure bet weight wise. Good to have another option, thanks. They go for around $265 + tax so are in the same ballpark as the ergotron LX HD ones.


I'll definitely give it a try on the ergotron LX arm I already own whenever I get a 48" CX. Otherwise I'll just keep it on my long bent ended (aslant "J" sweep?) bench desk against a wall, building it up with a black shelf stand if necessary for a little more height. Another option is putting it on one of those TV flat metal spine pillar style stands that have a wall mount attached to the top of the spine essentially, and tucking it behind my desk.



My main peripheral desk is an overlapping (height adjustable) half-circle desk on caster wheels so I can vary my view distance easily on the fly. That will also allow me to tuck my circular desk back up against the monitor one at the wall when not in use. So I'll probably end up with the ergotron arms on the side monitors, perhaps in landscape mode for a PLP-ish look, and shelf+stand mount the 48" CX in portrait as the media/gaming "stage". I can't see me needing to adjust the angle and height of the 48" cx much if ever once placed properly but I do like the option as well as the floating look that quality monitor arms give. I've seen pictures of a lot of interesting setups so I'm not yet sure exactly what layout I'll go with yet.

The ergotron LX HD on a cintiq 27" art/drawing screen from lawrencecandraw on youtube:
View attachment 227943

Me installing the arm on one of my 43" 4k VA tvs-as-monitors. It came with some vesa extension "wing" arms that connected from the main arm's vesa holes to make a metal "X" but I had that plasma adapter plate so I used that instead.

View attachment 227944

TV pillar stand options:

"TV Stand with Tilting & Swiveling Bracket, Fits Monitors 32”-70” - Black" ~ $153 + tax
  • Fits Screens 32”- 70"
  • VESA Compatibility 600x400
  • 90-lb Weight Capacity
  • Integrated Cable Management System
  • Flat Base


View attachment 227945
We know the LG 48 weighs 14.9 kg which is 33 pounds, I posted the photo above.
 
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Pastuch

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If you're only using your oled to watch TV from 8+ feet away then I have no issues with high brightness. When sitting less than 5 feet away it's a whole different ball-game. Your eyes will likely fatigue very very quickly at max brightness on a 48 inch screen at 40 inch viewing distance.
 

kasakka

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If you're only using your oled to watch TV from 8+ feet away then I have no issues with high brightness. When sitting less than 5 feet away it's a whole different ball-game. Your eyes will likely fatigue very very quickly at max brightness on a 48 inch screen at 40 inch viewing distance.

You would never use one of these at max brightness for desktop use. High brightness is only for HDR and even there it's going to be individual details that have that high brightness actually in use, not the whole screen.
 

elvn

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We know the LG 48 weighs 14.9 kg which is 33 pounds, I posted the photo above.

Thanks for the confirmation on the weight. Almost certain my LX HD arm would work in that case.

You would never use one of these at max brightness for desktop use. High brightness is only for HDR and even there it's going to be individual details that have that high brightness actually in use, not the whole screen.

Yep, that was the point of the 2nd post I did in a row. I wanted to keep the subjects separate. If you check my previous post it also shows the % of the screen at what brightness the C9's are capable of, and that before ABL kicks it down. Meaning only small % of the screen can do very high brightness and it scales down to larger parts of the screen... this throughout dynamic scene content.

------------------------------------------

HDR is where extreme brightness makes displays look way better (more like real life), in the highlights and highest color gradation instead of clipping to white or rolling down/capping to a whole field of the limited peak color in an area a display would have otherwise. Which means a lot of lost details in colors on displays with SDR or other low color volumes.

HDR is not turning the whole display up to "11" (or 1000 to 10,000 nits) like you would a SDR screen. It's scintillation, edges, point sources, and fuller 3d color volumes which include gradation across much larger color spaces since it adds a much taller range of brighter colors throughout instead of capping them.

VR6gxX2.png becomes 3r1M8aR.png

Those higher color values are across a moving scene relative to light sources and objects so it's very dynamic not a spot light blasting the screen all the time. Think of it like a much taller gradient color palette - a more open color volume that looks way more realistic. That and we aren't even up to HDR 4,000 let alone the 10,000 nit HDR standard yet for a long time. HDR is based on absolute values where you don't change the brightness/gamma at all unlike SDR where the user changes the brightness and gamma since it's only a slim limited band you have to work with. Games are using floating user customizable values (Hybrid Log Gamma) only because most games are doing HDR poorly and because most displays people own can't do HDR properly either (HDR 600, HDR400, non FALD, non-OLED, etc). HDR is based on a dark home theater viewing environment as well so saying you don't need HDR color volume~color brightness heights because you prefer viewing/playing HDR content in a dark room is inaccurate too.
 
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Pastuch

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Thanks for the confirmation on the weight. Almost certain my LX HD arm would work in that case.



Yep, that was the point of the 2nd post I did in a row. I wanted to keep the subjects separate. If you check my previous post it also shows the % of the screen at what brightness the C9's are capable of, and that before ABL kicks it down. Meaning only small % of the screen can do very high brightness and it scales down to larger parts of the screen... this throughout dynamic scene content.

------------------------------------------

HDR is where extreme brightness makes displays look way better (more like real life), in the highlights and highest color gradation instead of clipping to white or rolling down/capping to a whole field of the limited peak color in an area a display would have otherwise. Which means a lot of lost details in colors on displays with SDR or other low color volumes.

HDR is not turning the whole display up to "11" (or 1000 to 10,000 nits) like you would a SDR screen. It's scintillation, edges, point sources, and fuller 3d color volumes which include gradation across much larger color spaces since it adds a much taller range of brighter colors throughout instead of capping them.

View attachment 227972 becomes View attachment 227973

Those higher color values are across a moving scene relative to light sources and objects so it's very dynamic not a spot light blasting the screen all the time. Think of it like a much taller gradient color palette - a more open color volume that looks way more realistic. That and we aren't even up to HDR 4,000 let alone the 10,000 nit HDR standard yet for a long time. HDR is based on absolute values where you don't change the brightness/gamma at all unlike SDR where the user changes the brightness and gamma since it's only a slim limited band you have to work with. Games are using floating user customizable values (Hybrid Log Gamma) only because most games are doing HDR poorly and because most displays people own can't do HDR properly either (HDR 600, HDR400, non FALD, non-OLED, etc). HDR is based on a dark home theater viewing environment as well so saying you don't need HDR color volume~color brightness heights because you prefer viewing/playing HDR content in a dark room is inaccurate too.

HDR Windows 10 is the biggest disappointment in the last few years. I hate the manual slider in the OS. If you configure MPC-HC exactly right it will automatically trigger HDR in videos without having to set the slider. Some games have HDR built into the game menu, others have HDR but you have to use the slider. Microsoft dropped the ball hard and it's obvious. I had a better time gaming in Windows 8 than I have in Windows 10 which is frankly embarrassing. Microsoft needs to get serious about low latency game mode settings at the OS level. They need to make HDR automatic in all cases, browser, games, and applications or let the GPU manufacturers handle that for them. There are still lots of PC titles that have HDR on console and not on PC, I don't blame the developers either, look at the joke that is Windows 10 HDR!
 

gamerk2

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HDR Windows 10 is the biggest disappointment in the last few years. I hate the manual slider in the OS. If you configure MPC-HC exactly right it will automatically trigger HDR in videos without having to set the slider. Some games have HDR built into the game menu, others have HDR but you have to use the slider. Microsoft dropped the ball hard and it's obvious. I had a better time gaming in Windows 8 than I have in Windows 10 which is frankly embarrassing. Microsoft needs to get serious about low latency game mode settings at the OS level. They need to make HDR automatic in all cases, browser, games, and applications or let the GPU manufacturers handle that for them. There are still lots of PC titles that have HDR on console and not on PC, I don't blame the developers either, look at the joke that is Windows 10 HDR!

Part of the problem is that apps not in exclusive fullscreen are bound to what the OS uses, but I'm annoyed that some games (the latest COD) don't allow the setting to be enabled even for exclusive fullscreen unless enabled in the OS. Oh, and changing the OS volume via the slider on my keyboard causes the display to briefly go back to SDR mode.

Windows at minimum needs two settings: One that allows applications to enable HDR if they are in exclusive fullscreen, and one to enable it for the desktop. There should also probably be a compatibility option to disable HDR for specific apps.
 

Pastuch

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Great point, why not disable the On screen display for your volume so it doesn't take you out of HDR?
 

Pastuch

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Part of the problem is that apps not in exclusive fullscreen are bound to what the OS uses, but I'm annoyed that some games (the latest COD) don't allow the setting to be enabled even for exclusive fullscreen unless enabled in the OS. Oh, and changing the OS volume via the slider on my keyboard causes the display to briefly go back to SDR mode.

Windows at minimum needs two settings: One that allows applications to enable HDR if they are in exclusive fullscreen, and one to enable it for the desktop. There should also probably be a compatibility option to disable HDR for specific apps.

Isn't exclusive full-screen basically dead in modern games? What I mean is, DX12 doesn't really offer a true exclusive fullscreen output. It's basically giving you borderless windowed mode all the time, whether you like it or not.

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/demystifying-full-screen-optimizations/

Hard to take MS seriously on this one: "We have extensive performance data that indicates that almost all users who use Fullscreen Optimizations have equal performance to Full Screen Exclusive."
 

kasakka

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Some decent close-up's in this newer video:

Stand seems to be just taken from the larger models, which makes sense from a manufacturing point of view but makes it look comically massive. Otherwise looks exactly the same as my C9 on the outside, as expected. From the front the screen will look pleasantly slim as it has so little bezel.

Isn't exclusive full-screen basically dead in modern games? What I mean is, DX12 doesn't really offer a true exclusive fullscreen output. It's basically giving you borderless windowed mode all the time, whether you like it or not.

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/demystifying-full-screen-optimizations/

Hard to take MS seriously on this one: "We have extensive performance data that indicates that almost all users who use Fullscreen Optimizations have equal performance to Full Screen Exclusive."

At least games from developers with strong ties to MS seem to be moving from exclusive fullscreen. On games like Gears 5 and Forza Horizon 4 I have no complaints with how they perform and haven't noticed that they have any extra input lag. Basically the experience has been pretty seamless so I am all for this as it's downright awful trying to alt+tab out of some games.
 

gamerk2

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At least games from developers with strong ties to MS seem to be moving from exclusive fullscreen. On games like Gears 5 and Forza Horizon 4 I have no complaints with how they perform and haven't noticed that they have any extra input lag. Basically the experience has been pretty seamless so I am all for this as it's downright awful trying to alt+tab out of some games.

Which is fine as an option, but games running as Borderless Fullscreen are bound by the compositor settings, which is what's causing all the HDR grief in the first place.
 

kasakka

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Which is fine as an option, but games running as Borderless Fullscreen are bound by the compositor settings, which is what's causing all the HDR grief in the first place.

That's true, it is certainly something that MS hopefully works on so that HDR is better able to activate when needed and can be turned on/off in games based on preferences rather than this "HDR does not exist if HDR is not enabled on the desktop" crap. Even though having HDR on all the time is not an issue on the OLED in terms of image quality, it might be more prone to burn-in and automatic brightness limiter is more likely to activate in desktop use.
 

kalston

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Isn't exclusive full-screen basically dead in modern games? What I mean is, DX12 doesn't really offer a true exclusive fullscreen output. It's basically giving you borderless windowed mode all the time, whether you like it or not.

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/demystifying-full-screen-optimizations/

Hard to take MS seriously on this one: "We have extensive performance data that indicates that almost all users who use Fullscreen Optimizations have equal performance to Full Screen Exclusive."

I mean they are not wrong. It mostly works just fine and few people are even aware that it's a thing.

I have tried to measure a difference (not just framerate but also frametimes) and have mostly failed, on a very large number of games (mostly because yes you do lose a few frames here and there). I still generally disable it though because I have rarely ever had issues with alt tabbing in the first place and so to me it's like potentially extra free performance (and peace of mind). Only a few specific games have ever given me trouble with alt tabbing out of fullscreen exclusive honestly (and AMD drivers - but I stopped using AMD cards a while back). And in those cases using alt + enter to switch between fullscreen and windowed usually did the trick anyway.
 

N4CR

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Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, ASUS, Acer, etc can pack it up and turn off the lights. Or heavily reduce their price gouging. Either way, it's almost game over.
Good riddance, they milked and ass fucked us long enough and deserve every bit of grief their monitor divisions will experience in the coming years.
 

elvn

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At least games from developers with strong ties to MS seem to be moving from exclusive fullscreen. On games like Gears 5 and Forza Horizon 4 I have no complaints with how they perform and haven't noticed that they have any extra input lag. Basically the experience has been pretty seamless so I am all for this as it's downright awful trying to alt+tab out of some games.

Like some other things in the past, exclusive fullscreen might just be one of those things that goes by the wayside even if some people stubbornly try to cling to it.
Really I would like virtual monitor spaces with their own Hz if possible to be the standard so that with a wall of high rez monitor (8k, 16k) you could build your own smaller game screen size at higher Hz (and higher FPS due to smaller resolution) while not being locked into using only the game screen portion, or even that physical monitor. This might only be possible with seamless monitors as building blocks to a larger monitor space though (as demo'd in a rudimentary fashion at ces a few years ago in some early micro LED units), especially in regard to higher Hz on a smaller monitor space within a monitor "wall". However in the future everything will likely be VR and AR anyway with virtual spaces, mixed reality virtuall objects and virtual screens instead of giant physical tablets.
zKmcivT.jpg
KTGc6Lm.png

In regard to exclusive fullscreen and fullscreen windowed mode again - it would be great if windows would allow more than one mouse pointer so that you could play a game with a different mouse or use the mouse for desktop and gamepad for the game without losing function of either at any time. For example having your gaming mouse locked to the game and a logitech MS Ergo Plus mouse on the side for desktop/app use (the ergo mice use a thumb-trackball so require zero mouse movement or tracking space). I'm not sure if there is a way to do two mice independently outside of group collaboration software or running a virtual desktop on your actual one but I haven't really looked into it in a long time.

Some decent close-up's in this newer video:

Looks cool. Looking forward to it but I will definitely have to redo my whole setup ~ pc room for one.

As Kasakka said, and I agree with, even at $1800 that would still be a good deal compared to all the high end gaming monitors out there. LG's sale prices are gravy at that point. Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, ASUS, Acer, etc can pack it up and turn off the lights. Or heavily reduce their price gouging. Either way, it's almost game over.

The timing of the next gen of VR headsets seems far enough away that I will most likely buy a 48" CX for desktop gaming in the meantime until some very high rez HMDs come out in the next few years (sticking with my oculus quest for now as an entry into VR). I'm really in love with VR and see it and AR as definitely being the way of the future. After getting into my Oculus Quest, I had been considering getting the pimax 8k x... but overall between the company, build quality, inventory/production rate and price point for the whole kit with index controllers and a few lighthouses/mocap sensors I decided that it's really not worth it for me until some larger companies start making something similar in a whole new gen of vr headsets (with more advanced features and peripherals as well no doubt). I mention this because for me, nearly $2000 usd on a top of the line VR headset kit would have been an either or scenario with a LG 48" CX otherwise.
Either way, it's almost game over.

.. it's the only one actually worth upgrading my desk setup to.

Also as you might infer, this might be my last real "gaming monitor" at all for the foreseeable future.
 
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kasakka

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In regard to exclusive fullscreen and fullscreen windowed mode again - it would be great if windows would allow more than one mouse pointer so that you could play a game with a different mouse or use the mouse for desktop and gamepad for the game without losing function of either at any time. For example having your gaming mouse locked to the game and a logitech MS Ergo PLus on the side for desktop/app use (the ergo mice use a thumb-trackball so require zero mouse movement or tracking space). I'm not sure if there is a way to do two mice independently outside of group collaboration software or running a virtual desktop on your actual one but I haven't really looked into it in a long time.

As a super ultrawide owner I have battled quite a bit with this and so have others. Fullscreen in games and apps always means it takes full screen space (as well as locking the cursor to that game) so what do you do if you would prefer a dual window solution where you have say a browser or Discord or whatever open next to the game running in a smaller portion of the screen? With dual monitors this is no problem, but with super ultrawides (or large TVs for that matter) you have the needed resolution and size, but the only way to do this is to run the game in windowed/borderless mode or use Picture by Picture mode which disables Freesync and HDR support. In borderless mode you often cannot move the actual window without hacky solutions.

To solve this Windows would need to be able to designate a portion of the screen as a virtual desktop, then it should be possible to trick games into thinking that "yeah, this area right here is the full screen". There are tons of apps fully capable of splitting the desktop into areas where you can assign windows, but for the fullscreen functionality in games and apps none of this is taken into account and instead of going fullscreen on a portion, it's always fullscreen on the whole display even in a lower resolution.

With increasingly larger monitors being used on the desktop this is something that is hopefully tackled at some point. While there are multiple ways to make a window borderless, afaik you lose the benefits of a real borderless fullscreen and have the performance and input lag hit from the DWM compositing stuff. It's probably not an easy solution. Seamless alt-tab switching would at least solve the mouse locking issue.
 

elvn

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Even if you did borderless fullscreen you wouldn't be able to designate a smaller screen area as it's own monitor as far as Hz goes unless you eventually had modular seamless bezel free monitor building blocks. For example if you had a 16k wall of screen that could only do 30hz or 60hz but wanted to play a game in a central 4k or 21:10 3840x1600 monitor space at 120hz (or higher in the future).

By the time that kind of microled building block your own monitor space comes along at anything near consumer pricing we should have much better VR and even AR headsets though. They'll probably need eye tracking/foveated rendering and some forms of advanced interpolation for high enough frame rates at very high resolutions per eye. Virtual screens will make staring at slab phones in your hand and giant tablets on your desk more niche and old school in the long run but that's still years away from ubiquity. For me it's looking like this 48" 4k CX may be my last media/gaming monitor upgrade for a very long time. Within the next 1 - 2 years I'll get a much more advanced VR headset. Just looking around at virtual desktops in VR space and seeing mixed reality screen potential in actual real world room view composites/overlays makes it more than obvious where things are going eventually (even if some years off yet for smaller less bulky headsets with much higher resolutions).





















The upcoming more "sporty" VR glasses have good resolutions but very narrow FoVs for now unfortunately.

The next gen of full VR headsets in a few years should have some kind of lighter wrap-around compared to the full box headsets we have now though. Something like this oculus quest 2.0 simulation

Until then I'll definitely get some fun out of the 48" LG CX for pancake gaming and media, with my quest for entry level VR. I'm just saying with comments that the overpriced gaming LCD manufacturers can go take a flying leap - that really in the future traditional displays are going to fall away from most users during a paradigm shift in deployment and adoption of VR/AR headsets and mixed reality software systems and perhaps even overarching VR/AR server-systems that could make google maps and facebook, WoW, etc. look quaint by comparison in the long run. Something like how smart phones became ubiquitous and nearly everyone has their own. This should hopefully be the last handful of years for pancake LCD type gaming monitors at least.
 
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Iratus

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One upside of insanely expensive monitors, getting a new TV or even a Valve Index is way easier to justify. But dear, the headset is less than a third of the price of my monitor. The TV is twice as big for twice the price. Makes sense right.

My wife did not agree with my rationalisation of a screen as “I use it 3 times as much as a TV”
 

elvn

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yes that's because they aren't fully wearable and usable all the time in a more sleek format and untethered across the board yet. That and also because mostly just one person has one rather than everyone having their own like a smart phone (and not yet in a local, national or worldwide AR mixed reality servers in the infrastructure outside).. at least for now.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Edit: That was in reply to the idea that a VR headset might not seem worth it compared to a regular screen to some people right now.

Now that I re-read what you wrote I'd have to disagree somewhat since a top of the line VR headset kit like the Pimax 8K x with 4k rez per eye plus the index controllers and 2 lighthouses is around $2000. That is at least as much as the most expensive PC gaming monitors/tvs and actually quite a lot more than most of them. Even the index kit at $1000 + tax is as much or more than a lot of gaming monitors.

Pimax 8K X Resolution and SDE compared in Macro Shots (zoom larger)

From this youtube video:
VR Through The Lens (photos & video): Pimax 8KX, 8K+, 8K, 5K+, Valve Index, HP Reverb v1, HTC Vive

---------------------------------------------------------------

I have an oculus quest which was a lot more budget friendly entry level price and quality for now though. However I am definitely looking forward to a 48" 4k 120hz hdmi 2.1 HDR OLED. I can just see where in the next 1 to 2 years when the next gen of VR headsets comes out after these I will start picking VR and mixed reality headsets to spend on over gaming monitors rather than blowing money on both.
 
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IdiotInCharge

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14,710
Good riddance, they milked and ass fucked us long enough and deserve every bit of grief their monitor divisions will experience in the coming years.
They sell monitors using panels from companies like LG...

Much of this is largely explained (if not absolutely) by the lower volumes involved. Decrease volume, unit price goes up. Only way to address that is to raise the common denominator, like LG is doing here with all of their OLEDs supporting 4k120 HDR with VRR.

If you want special, you have to pay.
 

IdiotInCharge

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Really I would like virtual monitor spaces with their own Hz if possible to be the standard so that with a wall of high rez monitor (8k, 16k) you could build your own smaller game screen size at higher Hz (and higher FPS due to smaller resolution) while not being locked into using only the game screen portion, or even that physical monitor.
Essentially, you need 'per pixel sync', with the whole display supporting very fast sync speeds along with very slow sync speeds, or perhaps, no minimum sync speed at all.

And then the software and hardware stack would need to allow output updates to 'flow' through when computed.

We'll get there someday.
 

Kev13Dd

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That page shows the 48CX under the "European 2020 LG OLED CX series" only? Not sure if that means it's only an EEA model, that would be a shame if it is.
Not sure how accurate a non-LG page is spec wise anyways. The EU model shows 110V which... probably is not correct
 
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the bigger the better, however as has been pointed out by this site repeatedly, is there burn in? A few years ago these forums finally started pushing big samsung tv's as monitors, OLEDS were supposed to be the big ass gaming displays of the future. Have they solved the burnin?
 

tunatime

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the bigger the better, however as has been pointed out by this site repeatedly, is there burn in? A few years ago these forums finally started pushing big samsung tv's as monitors, OLEDS were supposed to be the big ass gaming displays of the future. Have they solved the burnin?
Been uesing oled since the c6 upgraded to a c9 a few months ago...never had any noticeable burn in the years of uesing them as a PC monitor...had a pdp and that did get it it's basically a non issue
 

Lateralus

More [H]uman than Human
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Several of us have been using them either for gaming exclusively (so static HUDs and what not) or as primary displays. I'm in the latter category and use my B7 every day for hours upon hours in Windows for work, and then for gaming in the evening. I've suffered ZERO burn-in. Do not let that worry keep you from having the best image quality available right now.
 
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elvn

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I got burn in on my 8.5" samsung oled tablet after 3+ years but that could be because I ran an "always on" type app on occasion to keep it's screen from timing out so I could use it as a system stats readout at my pc. That or more likely the fact that I put a cup of coffee on it a few times using it like a coaster (on top of it's leather case but still heat). It's still usable but it has a few translucent shadow spots that look like fingerprints after inking for fingerprinting sort of.

The things that keep LG OLED TVs from being a full 1000nit HDR screen without caveats are the same things that keep the chance for burn in relatively low with fairly safe usage practices:
-Lower peak nits (lower bright color range caps) in relation to the % of screen at that brightness
-ABL auto brightness limiter that kicks on, especially at HDR color ranges (which not only can be abrupt but also makes the scene dimmer so can be very annoying to some people)

That's the trade off in order to greatly reduce the chance of burn in. Personally I'd also use mine with a black background, no icons or taskbar on it. Used as a media/gaming stage with different monitor(s) for regular desktop/app use.

Besides having lower peak brightnesses per % screen and ABL protection, LG OLED should have:
-a pixel shifting system that tries to shift static content a bit
-a display timed screen saver setting in the OSD (rather than relying on whatever connected OS/device 's screen saver alone)
-modern LG tvs have a pixel wear evening system that runs in standby when the screen is "off".

-------------------------------------------

That's compared to something like the samsung 1400nit to 1600 nit "Q LED"' with 512 or more zone FALD displays that have:
-much brighter color ranges/ceilings
-1 year no burn in guarantee (and really no risk of burn in as compared to an OLED)
- No ABL snapping on
-relatively low density FALD arrays that cause a dimming "halo" offset which results in lost detail
(really need near per pixel backlighting like a dual layer LCD with a 2nd lcd lighting in monochrome to do it right)
-not possible to do SBS contrast at the pixel level for fine edges, fine details, scintillation, point sources, etc.
- no HDMI 2.1 in current models afaik for future hdmi 2.1 capable gpus to do 4:4:4 chroma 4k 120Hz
- no smaller sizes
- tend to cost a lot more than LG OLED deals, in part due to being limited to larger sizes

A 800nit or higher peak is impossible on OLEDs outside of peak 10% window of highlights and before ABL kicks in.

A C9 OLED's HDR can only do
Fullscreen peak/burst: 301 nit ... Fullscreen sustained: 286 nit
50% peak/burst: 530nit ... 50% sustained: 506nit
25% peak/burst: 845nit ... 25% sustained: 802nit
10% peak/burst: 855nit .. 10% sustained: 814nit

A Samsung Q90's HDR for comparison since it's LED LCD and very bright
Fullscreen peak/burst: 536 nit ... Fullscreen sustained: 532 nit
50% peak/burst: 816nit ... 50% sustained: 814nit
25% peak/burst: 1275nit ... 25% sustained: 1235nit
10% peak/burst: 1487nit .. 10% sustained: 1410nit


Comparison (simulated as an example since it's not really showing HDR color brightness levels obviously) of OLED ABL dimming and FALD LCD edge glow "haloing" to the dual layer LCD tech found in the very expensive film production reference monitors today. Not only is the ABL activated OLED a dimmer screen but the non ABL color heights it's allowed are considerably lower than the LCD in the first place too (as outlined above). You could look at that as a bad thing but considering it makes burn-in pretty much a non-issue it's a worthwhile trade-off. Especially considering a lot of content is still SDR besides.


NVsBTV1.png
(samsung's FALD firmware, last I checked, chooses the negative to a "dark halo" that would infringe on the light side instead, losing details).
 
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Armenius

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the bigger the better, however as has been pointed out by this site repeatedly, is there burn in? A few years ago these forums finally started pushing big samsung tv's as monitors, OLEDS were supposed to be the big ass gaming displays of the future. Have they solved the burnin?
I've had some retention on my C8 after some longer gaming sessions, but that is wiped away by the pixel refresher that runs automatically every time it's turned off. No burn in has been noticed after 2 years.
 
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elvn

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They call it a refresher but it's more like a planer / evener. A wear-evening process "torch" that burns the rest of the oleds down by the same amount, sort of like making pencil erasers all worn down the same slim margin after some are used more than others, or dimming some light bulbs to match some other dull light bulbs, Once it burns all the oled emitters down to the same level, it pumps the brightness up to bring them all back up to normal levels. At least that is what I've read on some oled forums:

What does Pixel Refresher actually do? (Reddit r/OLED)
The short refresh performed during stand-by every 4 hours of use, simply pulses voltages across the OLEDs to remove any image retention that may have happened during those last four hours, so the screen is clean next time you switch it on.

The hour long refresh that can be done manually (or runs automatically every 2000 hours), recalibrate’s the brightness of your panel back to its optimum by measuring voltages and effectively “burning down” ones that are unusually high, to get an even field across the panel - it can then up the voltage back to full brightness without danger of blowing up the ones that were high. It does this in vertical batches, which is what causes the banding, and why the bands ‘move’ overtime. It is the most dangerous thing (to picture quality) the panel does, as it can be influenced by many outside factors such as room temperature or power cuts, but is a necessary evil as otherwise, over months the panel would just get dimmer and dimmer. It also shortens the lifespan of the panel. This is why you should not be using this function repeatedly, and why Sony officially recommends it only be used once per year.


https://www.lg.com/us/experience-tvs/oled-tv/reliability
OLED Image Retention or Burn-In: Burn-in and image retention are possible on virtually any display. However, with an LG OLED TV, any risk of burn-in or image retention have been addressed through the use of technology that not only helps protect against damage to the screen, but features self-healing properties so that any short-term image retention that may occur is quickly rectified. It is rare for an average TV consumer to create an environment that could result in burn-in. Most cases of burn-in in televisions is a result of static images or on-screen elements displaying on the screen uninterrupted for many hours or days at a time – with brightness typically at peak levels. So, it is possible to create image retention in almost any display if one really tries hard enough. And even if image retention does occur from extreme usage, it can usually be mitigated within a short period of time by turning the display off for a while, and watching a few hours of varying content (such as your standard TV watching and channel-surfing).

Additionally, LG OLED TVs come with special features and settings to preserve image quality and prevent burn in and image retention. First, there is a
---Screen Saver feature that will turn on automatically if the TV detects that a static image is displayed on screen after approximately two minutes.
There are also three options (available in Menu setting > Picture settings > OLED panel settings) that can be used to preserve image quality. The first of these is the
Clear Panel Noise feature that preserves the quality of the image on the display panel by resetting the TV so that it clears the pixels.
This feature can be turned on when needed within the settings mentioned above.
The second feature that can be employed is the
----Screen Shift feature which, moves the screen slightly at regular intervals to preserve image quality.
A third option is the
---Logo Luminance Adjustment, which can detect static logos on the screen and reduce brightness to help decrease permanent image retention.

So, in short: Reasonable, responsible usage of an OLED TV, combined with powerful image preservation abilities should result in a seamless home entertainment experience.
 
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gamerk2

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I've had some retention on my C8 after some longer gaming sessions, but that is wiped away by the pixel refresher that runs automatically every time it's turned off. No burn in has been noticed after 2 years.

I've got the beginnings of some permanent burn in on my B6; my Windows taskbar has started to burn in, due to having several apps that kept it up when running them. I've since set it up so the taskbar minimizes when it's not open, but some minor retention remains after two days.

The key is to be cognizant of how your using it. You definitely need to be more careful when using as a monitor, and it took me way to long to realize the taskbar was going to be an issue.
 

Murzilka

Gawd
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I've got the beginnings of some permanent burn in on my B6; my Windows taskbar has started to burn in, due to having several apps that kept it up when running them. I've since set it up so the taskbar minimizes when it's not open, but some minor retention remains after two days.

The key is to be cognizant of how your using it. You definitely need to be more careful when using as a monitor, and it took me way to long to realize the taskbar was going to be an issue.
Try manually running the pixel refresher, maybe it will help?
 

Lateralus

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I've got the beginnings of some permanent burn in on my B6; my Windows taskbar has started to burn in, due to having several apps that kept it up when running them. I've since set it up so the taskbar minimizes when it's not open, but some minor retention remains after two days.

The key is to be cognizant of how your using it. You definitely need to be more careful when using as a monitor, and it took me way to long to realize the taskbar was going to be an issue.

What setting is your OLED light on in the menu?

I don't think I've ever had the taskbar stay open like that. That sucks. The good news is that your set is one of the early ones and they've made improvements to the panels since then to make them less susceptible to burn-in.
 

elvn

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When I hopefully am able to get a LG 48 CX OLED I will be running it with a black background and no icons, no taksbar, and viewing it from around 40" away. I'll use a different monitor for desktop/apps, taskbar shortcuts etc. The OLED will be a media and gaming "stage". I'll also keep it's internal OSD activated screen saver on along with the other modern protections I outlined from the LG OLED link in my previous reply.

Right now I run 3 monitors, two fairly large at 43" with a 32" in the middle. I use DisplayFusion pro which allows me to do a lot of window management and it also has it's own taskbar system and options. On my side monitors I use a transparent displayfusion taskbar that hides itself completely (no edge shown on the bottom of the screen while "hidden"). It only slides up to the taskbar position when I move my mouse off the screen over the bottom edge.

displayfusion /Features/Taskbar/
flQAO8G.png

There are also some advanced settings in the displayfusion taskbar area if you hit the advanced button on the bottom of that interface. These deal with a lot of things that can help certain situations, app interactions with the taskbar, and overal tweaking. Too much to cover here.

------------------------------------

You can also by default in windows:
- drag the main unlocked windows 10 taskbar to any screen even if they aren't the primary one
- drag the unlocked windows 10 taskbar to any edge of any monitor (top, sides, etc)
- hide the windows 10 taskbar
- use black theme colors and/or transparency on the taskbar.

U3NzIim.png

-----------------------------------------

Some other windows 10 taskbar options:

https://www.techjunkie.com/windows-10-taskbar-transparency/

https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-change-taskbar-transparency-windows-10-4777150

They quote this app in the lifewire article.. haven't tried it myself yet:

TranslucentTB (free at microsoft store)

TrasluscentTB - tips

You can turn your windows colors to "Dark" (or by finding a similar theme), and turn transparency effects on.. then right click the search field next to the start button and hit "taskbar settings" wheel cog. Set the search field to be a search icon instead so that it doesn't leave a search box line (even when grey/black it shows a line while minimized).



I'd also recommend using something like an elgato streamdeck to launch things and also to manage window positions via displayfusion hotkeys if possible (especially if using multiple monitors). I love mine.
 
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