Kaspersky Update Hoses Internet Access For XP Users

[awsiemieniec]

XP still has it's merit in the work place. I have one particular (medical office) client who has to run Virtual XP on all their W7 PCs because they have to keep a legacy Oracle db online for reference. It's annoying but necessary.

 

[Flyboat]

For home usage, there is little point for elderly to upgrade their Window XP to Window 7 or 8. They have limited budget, and don't want to learn new OS. They don't play latest games. All they need is to surf internet.

 

[PinchedNerve]

@PinchedNerve: I have to disagree and it sounds like maybe you have limited experience in IT yourself, perhaps contracted work and/or generally for smaller, more run-of-the-mill companies? Most larger companies use VLK's and standardized images for all their computers, not restore CD's. Once you get a decent install base of Windows 7 computers, you'll find that it has issues, as well. Naturally, if a company has mostly XP computers, you'll find that XP has the most issues, but once Windows 7 is the majority, you'll see the issues slowly migrate to W7. It's simply a matter of numbers.

VLK's and standardized images would be a god send. I have no doubt your IT world is much different then mine. I wasn't trying to suggest Win 7 is without issues but I can't ignore the amount of XP issues versus the Win 7 issues & its not an issues of more XP then Win 7 machines.

 

[awsiemieniec]

For home usage, there is little point for elderly to upgrade their Window XP to Window 7 or 8. They have limited budget, and don't want to learn new OS. They don't play latest games. All they need is to surf internet.

Oh goodness! I couldn't imagine teaching my grandma a new OS. It took her about 7 years to "kinda know" about XP.

 

[cocheese256]

We use Win 7 and XP at my business. I have XP on the system I use and on the computer that the shop uses for workshop manuals. We also have an XP and a Win 7 for our diagnostic systems for checking vehicles. I am part owner of this business and I handle all the computer issues here. I have no reason to spend the extra money to perform upgrades to these systems when they are performing the tasks that are needed to get the job done. If one fails I will replace it with current tech.

 

[GigabyteZ]

So your saying you could never get infected?

How many "trusted" sites have been compromised by malware from bad ad's being fed into it....

My AV has stopped plenty over the years.. better safe than sorry, but i assume those people who "know what they are doing" also think pulling out is a safe form of birth controllll

As long as you're not an idiot and allow unsketchy data through your firewall then you don't need AV. I haven't used any for 4-5 years and I've had to format maybe twice because of a malware that AV wouldn't have done shit for anyways.

 

[GigabyteZ]

sketchy*

 

[Geonerd]

^ No, people should upgrade from XP because it's 12 years old and is completely obsolete in every sense.

"Obsolete"


You've been sharing too many bananas with Billysoft's Marketing Monkeys.

XP works flawlessly on my older laptop and Barton boxes, and I see ZERO reason to 'upgrade.' (Care to explain what glorious benefits I'd see?)

 

[Devistater]

As long as you're not an idiot and allow unsketchy data through your firewall then you don't need AV. I haven't used any for 4-5 years and I've had to format maybe twice because of a malware that AV wouldn't have done shit for anyways.

Considering you can get infected through just ads on legitimate web sites (just to describe one vector), that won't always stop things.

I've had to format exactly 0 times on my PC because of a malware in 10 years, and I DO use AV.

 

[Phoenix333]

XP is working fine for me. All my development stuff runs perfect on XP. It would take me two weeks of reinstalling, configuring, testing, and hoping that all of it would run on Windows 7. Some of it might not play nice. Why should I risk breaking what already works? I have a separate hard drive for Windows 7 that I use for newer games, but I still do 99% of my stuff on XP. Don't get me started on XP mode either. A virtual machine is no substitute for the real thing, which is why I have separate boot drives.

 

[Phoenix333]

As long as you're not an idiot and allow unsketchy data through your firewall then you don't need AV. I haven't used any for 4-5 years and I've had to format maybe twice because of a malware that AV wouldn't have done shit for anyways.

Considering you can get infected through just ads on legitimate web sites (just to describe one vector), that won't always stop things.

I've had to format exactly 0 times on my PC because of a malware in 10 years, and I DO use AV.

I've had to reformat exactly 0 times on my PC because of malware in 20 years, and I also use AV. The only times I've reformatted are for a hard drive upgrade or in very rare cases, a hardware failure. Most of the time I've not lost a significant amount of data as I do regular backups. I've also fixed inoperable machines (not my own) that were malware ridden without having to reformat. I have no small amount of skill in this, and I don't rely solely on a firewall because there's always something new out there. Browsers and OS's have flaws, and even the best firewall and AV can't stop everything. I may have some nice bragging rights on avoiding infections, but I chalk part of that up to being fortunate. I could be minding my own business and hit a compromised site tomorrow that frags my box. Nobody's 100% safe unless they're completely off the grid. No matter how good you are or how much you know you can still be compromised. Assuming it can never happen to you is a good way to invite disaster.

 

[mdburkey]

Yes, anyone who CAN safely upgrade to Windows 7+ should.

That said, I do IT support for several medical offices and medical billing companies that CANNOT upgrade for several reasons.

The first being our practice management software -- which will not work on anything past XP in it's current version. Upgrading to the new version (which would cost over $15K) would get us to Windows 7 but only 32-bit (even the most recent version won't work reliably on a 64-bit OS). We could move to different practice management software, but that would require manually re-entering the entire patient list, charts, and billing history. The concept of exporting records is lost on most medical billing software -- intentionally: they don't want you to be ABLE to move to a different software package. They actually use a version of the Pervasive database under the hood, but the database itself is password protected and no field level documentation is provided in any case.

So...I now expect to hear suggestions on running it under Windows XP mode on Win 7 Pro. We've tried. Good luck on getting the insurance card scanner and digital camera working through 7 into the XP mode virtual session -- to say nothing of the report counters and security fobs required by some of our MMPI scoring software. XP mode can interface with some hardware drivers via passthrough, but not all. A lot simply do not work right.

Now, add to the mix, a couple of our blasted insurance providers still require us to submit electronics claims using secure FTP -- over a DIAL UP Link to their specific server. And, guess what, their claims software will NOT work reliably on any soft-modem I've tested (we get claims properly submitted about 1 time in 10 this way). It does work reliably using our old U.S. Robotics PCI modems that were still full hardware modems that show up as a standard serial port. This process also usually screws up under XP Mode (probably due to latency issues or how things are handed off between the virtual and real serial ports) -- and while the claims software will actually run fine under Windows 7, it has to integrate with our practice management software -- which won't, except under XP Mode (and not well, even there).

So, before you blast everyone running XP as idiots, realize that there are still many industries that it still isn't practical to upgrade yet.

 

[koolaidkitten]

ohhhh so thats what happened to me yesterday. I had two employees complain bout internet issues. I was too lazy to figure it out, plus i had planned on updating them to Win7 boxes anyway so I just did some tower swaping.

 

[skinnydaddy]

Sorry Steve some of us are fucking poor. Yes POOR. My POS computer is pieced together from older systems after I had a bit if bad luck. Ok, a bit more than a little but I'll get by. So unless you want to donate a more up to date system. I'm stuck with XP and it works fine. Don't rag on the financially challenged. There are a hell of a lot more of us now then ever.

 

[Red Falcon]

Says the guy using Ubuntu...

Oh. Snap.

Wow, ignorance at its finest.
Judging someone by their sig, yeah, that show you guys real pros.

DeathPrincess, what do you have against Ubuntu?
Before you say "Nubutnu" or some shit, this OS is damn near as capable as the straight Debian distros, especially in the back-end; the only "noob" Linux OS I've seen so far is Mint, and even then it's just because of the default package manager and GUI, it can still be altered.

Ubuntu has a huge user-base, community, and package support.
So far, I've been able to push this Debian-based distro far more than any RHEL or SUSE distros.

"Obsolete"


You've been sharing too many bananas with Billysoft's Marketing Monkeys.

XP works flawlessly on my older laptop and Barton boxes, and I see ZERO reason to 'upgrade.' (Care to explain what glorious benefits I'd see?)

I see zero reason to upgrade too, considering official support for XP from Microsoft ends this year.
Do I even need to mention how easily corruptible XP's kernel and registry is?

Have fun with your obsolete-turned-legacy OS.

 

[Chimel]

There are many computers for which the upgrade is not an option because of physical constraints, it would mean throwing away a good working computer and buy a new one. Let them run the operating system they were designed for, they'll die soon enough.

 

[Red Falcon]

There are many computers for which the upgrade is not an option because of physical constraints, it would mean throwing away a good working computer and buy a new one. Let them run the operating system they were designed for, they'll die soon enough.

The latest systems I've seen natively running XP (with XP-only drivers available, no Vista/7/8) were from 2007.
Those systems are six years old now.

I get those who don't have enough money to afford a new system, do what you can.
But for those who do, Microsoft is officially ending support this year.

If you though XP was unsecure and buggy enough, boy are you all in for a surprise.

 

[DeathPrincess]

Wow, ignorance at its finest.
Judging someone by their sig, yeah, that show you guys real pros.

Ok Mr. Rocketfish!

DeathPrincess, what do you have against Ubuntu?

It isn't Gentoo! Its like a super fun OS made for usuable loving people that doesn't really have any worthwhile software for 99.9% of the stuff I do... So it doesn't really have the "hackyness" of other distro and being Linux lacks lots of proper "professional" software, making it entirely pointless.

Plus it goes totally against the Linux hipster way of life! How dare it allow those outsider people to use it simply!

Before you say "Nubutnu" or some shit,

You mean "Noobuntu"? Nubuntu isn't really as phonetically pleasing, plus Nub isn't really a word, unless I was refering to it being a very short OS...

this OS is damn near as capable as the straight Debian distros, especially in the

You sound like an XP user...

back-end;

Dude...

the only "noob" Linux OS I've seen so far is Noobuntu, and even then it's just because of the default package manager and GUI, it can still be altered.

Thats like saying Windows 8 GUI is fine because you can override it with third party tools.

Ubuntu has a huge user-base, community, and package support.

So does Blackberry. Oh and Windows XP.

So far, I've been able to push this Debian-based distro far more than any RHEL or SUSE distros.

I have a Windows 98(se) machine...for running old old games. Can still can go online...with a virtual routery thing, just not look at most webpages properly due to flash etc. Wait where were we... You are eeeasy!

 

[Red Falcon]

^ LOL
How dare you make fun of my RocketFish, Linux-hippie, Blackberry way of life!

 

[DeathPrincess]

^ LOL
How dare you make fun of my RocketFish, Linux-hippie, Blackberry way of life!

As long as you continue occasional showers and replace the velocraptor (maybe the AMD...they use propriety chip design software!), it shall all be fine!

 

[Red Falcon]

As long as you continue occasional showers and replace the velocraptor (maybe the AMD...they use propriety chip design software!), it shall all be fine!

You may take my pride, dignity, Velociraptors, and AMD processor... but you will never take away my RocketFish!!!

 

[DeathPrincess]

You may take my pride, dignity, Velociraptors, and AMD processor... but you will never take away my RocketFish!!!

But the Rocketfish will probably take your AMD and Velocicraptors annnd everything else for you!

 

[SkribbelKat]

Velcroraptor? Is that sort of like what perverts do with plastic wrap except with reclosable hatches?

 

[darkpaw]

Good, XP machines shouldn't be allowed on the internet any more anyways.

Can we just get a MS update that removes them all from the internet?

 

[DeathPrincess]

Velcroraptor? Is that sort of like what perverts do with plastic wrap except with reclosable hatches?

Velocicraptor (Via Wikipedia):

The Western Digital Craptor (often marketed as POS WD Crap) or VelociCraptor is a series of pseudo high performance hard disk drives produced by Western Digital for people who haven't heard of SSDs. The drive currently occupies a niche in the enthusiast community consisting of Red Falcon, and if he ever buys one, the workstation and small-server market. Traditionally, 2.5" drives have been widely known for their shitty low speed.[1] so WD's engineer[2] had the idea of making a crappy drive better by making it spin really really fast[3]. This patented technology also helped patent WD use this as a testbed for their ALB (Annoying Loud Buzzing) and FHD (Fragrantly Hot Drive) technologies which they developed under the codename PoS Drive System[4], which later expanded into their other drive branches in co-development with Seagate. Although there were satisfied customers[Citation needed], to fix some of the issues some users had, WD have included heatsinks, and clear windows, so you may see when the drive shits itself up.[5]

1. "Drive the enemy to 2.5, force the enemy into using them then laugh at his defeat! - Sun Tzu, The Art of War
2. This is purely assumption, they must have at least 1. - Sun Tzu
3. "Shitty wheels become less shitty when spun fast, but does not fix the cart!" - Sun Tzu, The Art of Spinning
4. 2003 Grolier Encyclopedia, The Great Book of Knowledge, The Speed taking of Animals, pp. 278
5. "Let the enemy see how he has made a mistake, knows that he has made a mistake and he shall but laugh and accept, then eat cookies" - Sun Tzu , The Art of Baking

 

[SkribbelKat]

Velocicraptor (Via Wikipedia):

A consumer hard drive that needs a heatsink? Do people really think hard drives making hard drives spin faster actually makes them better? Seriously...everyone should just RAID a bunch of USB thumb drives or store their stuff in a Cloud. Clouds are lots faster than hard drives and they never lose your data.

 

[Red Falcon]

LMAO you two, this is comedy gold!

 

[jedijeb]

XP has had a long time on the market and it was a good upgrade from 2K & Me, but yup, it really is time to move to something else. Keeping it going is a total IT support nightmare. Ugh at industrial equipment and software that requires it...though virtual machines can kinda sorta mitigate some of the need to have it installed on physical hardware.

This is where we are. We still have one machine that needs WinNT4 to operate, and for those that say just upgrade it, try to find a new PC that has an ISA slot to place the interface into or justify the $100k it would cost to replace the whole piece of equipment that is attached to it that still works perfectly.

We have several other pieces of expensive equipment that the control software can only be installed if it has XP SP2, if it detects SP3 it will not install.

I can understand people who do software development or high in number crunching or gaming to constantly upgrade computers and OSs, but people who have nothing to gain from upgrading from XP to W7, why should they. I have W7 on my new laptop, but it honestly does nothing that my old pc running XP can do that I need, or even something running W2K or older.

 

[SkribbelKat]

LMAO you two, this is comedy gold!

I blame you for this whole velco bodysuit thing, you know. You started it!

This is where we are. We still have one machine that needs WinNT4 to operate, and for those that say just upgrade it, try to find a new PC that has an ISA slot to place the interface into or justify the $100k it would cost to replace the whole piece of equipment that is attached to it that still works perfectly.

We have several other pieces of expensive equipment that the control software can only be installed if it has XP SP2, if it detects SP3 it will not install.

I can understand people who do software development or high in number crunching or gaming to constantly upgrade computers and OSs, but people who have nothing to gain from upgrading from XP to W7, why should they. I have W7 on my new laptop, but it honestly does nothing that my old pc running XP can do that I need, or even something running W2K or older.

I'm sort of wishy washy on that point. Yes, a computer from ten years ago pretty much does the exact same things a current computer does (within reason, of course) and, with an OS and software that was contemporary to the system when it was new, is just as responsive as a new system with modern software. I also don't really have any problem with XP. The trouble is getting an infinite supply of compatiable stuff for old systems and dealing with increasingly heavy web-based things that depend on a modern browser and some yucky thing like Flash (which is horri-bad slow on even a slower Pentium 4 and don't even get me started on sub-1 GHz VIA processors!). Between those things and failures of stuff like hard drives, a lack of security updates in light of new threats, and so forth, you sort of are forced to move on eventually.

 

[jedijeb]

I'm sort of wishy washy on that point. Yes, a computer from ten years ago pretty much does the exact same things a current computer does (within reason, of course) and, with an OS and software that was contemporary to the system when it was new, is just as responsive as a new system with modern software. I also don't really have any problem with XP. The trouble is getting an infinite supply of compatiable stuff for old systems and dealing with increasingly heavy web-based things that depend on a modern browser and some yucky thing like Flash (which is horri-bad slow on even a slower Pentium 4 and don't even get me started on sub-1 GHz VIA processors!). Between those things and failures of stuff like hard drives, a lack of security updates in light of new threats, and so forth, you sort of are forced to move on eventually.

This is what we are dreading at work currently. Each year we replace one of the old pieces of equipment and just keep hoping the others don't have a computer to fail. It is sad to think that a computer failing that can be replaced for maybe $500 can cost us over $100k because of what it is attached to. But when the equipment requires an HPIB interface(GBIB interface modified by HP) try finding even drivers for something like that in the wild. Some of these are mass spectrometers that are nearly 20 years old, and though not supported by Agilent any longer perform better than any of the new ones on the market so losing them hurts. Of course HP/Agilent makes the obsolete through lack of software support so we will have to buy new, but that is like throwing out your favorite jeans even though they don't even have holes in them yet lol. Not to mention the financial burden it causes, those things are not free for sure.

 

[mdburkey]

This is what we are dreading at work currently. Each year we replace one of the old pieces of equipment and just keep hoping the others don't have a computer to fail. It is sad to think that a computer failing that can be replaced for maybe $500 can cost us over $100k because of what it is attached to. But when the equipment requires an HPIB interface(GBIB interface modified by HP) try finding even drivers for something like that in the wild. Some of these are mass spectrometers that are nearly 20 years old, and though not supported by Agilent any longer perform better than any of the new ones on the market so losing them hurts. Of course HP/Agilent makes the obsolete through lack of software support so we will have to buy new, but that is like throwing out your favorite jeans even though they don't even have holes in them yet lol. Not to mention the financial burden it causes, those things are not free for sure.

I feel your pain and have experienced it myself. On one of my jobs, we have a couple of pieces of "extreme legacy" equipment that we still have to support, that are used daily, and that generate a huge amount of revenue. The requirements: 3 ISA slots for the DIO boards, no version of Windows newer than WFW 3.11, and no processor faster than a Pentium MMX 266 (due to software timing loops overflowing). Thankfully, we have acquired a lot of spare parts over the years (i.e. Ebay). As we designed it and manufactured it originally, the only way to upgrade it would be to design and build a new one -- which would likely cost a phenomenal amount once engineering time was considered. To make matters worse, this system was based on an even older system and some of the data tables for this system still have to be generated by the one ancient system we still have on hand in working order (theortically working at least -- it's been about 5 years since the last time I had to fire it up: a PDP with 8" platters).

 

[King of Heroes]

Discussing whether people should upgrade from XP or not is doubly irrelevant at this point:

First, people who are still using XP at this point are never going to upgrade away from it.

Second, XP's death sentence is being carried out in a year and change (commercial-only, extended support ends April 2014). Mainstream support ended a while ago, so current users haven't gotten any updates in years. Microsoft has already made the decision for them.

Just keep cruising with XP at this point. There's no life left in it, so its not like its diverting any resources away from 7 or 3rd party driver and software development.

 

[darkpaw]

Which is pretty much my point. I know that some systems will never be upgraded due to expensive legacy hardware or just laziness, but just get them off the internet so the whole rest of the world doesn't have to deal with a millions of XP bots spewing spam and ddos packets.

 

[Phoenix333]

Which is pretty much my point. I know that some systems will never be upgraded due to expensive legacy hardware or just laziness, but just get them off the internet so the whole rest of the world doesn't have to deal with a millions of XP bots spewing spam and ddos packets.

Except for those of us that use XP and are not spam bots. I shouldn't be punished simply because I have a need to run older software. Besides, it's not like there aren't any infected Windows 7 boxes.