Kaspersky Update Hoses Internet Access For XP Users

HardOCP News

[H] News
Joined
Dec 31, 1969
Messages
0
Maybe it is just me but I don't have any sympathy for people (including businesses) that are still running XP. Jeez, update your damn OS folks. :eek:

We apologize for the inconvenience. It does appear that there was a hiccup with an update pushed out causing Windows XP machines to lose Internet connectivity. An update was just released that should address the issue, what I will need you to do is: To get XP users Internet connectivity (temporarily), please disable the Web AV component of your protection policy for your managed computers.
 

ninjaturtle

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 25, 2004
Messages
2,327
Come on Steve, they're just thrifty because they have one more year til they have too. :)
 

HalOfBorg

Weaksauce
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
84
People should upgrade from XP because there's no way something like this could happen on Win7 or 8?
 

Red Falcon

[H]F Junkie
Joined
May 7, 2007
Messages
10,388
^ No, people should upgrade from XP because it's 12 years old and is completely obsolete in every sense.
 

prndll

I'm floppy, even when I don't want to be
Joined
Dec 16, 2012
Messages
478
@Steve
I'll update it when there is good reason to

@HalOfBorg
That is not a good reason...This would not happen if Kaspersky were not used. How many other os's would this NOT affect? OSx? Ubuntu? Suse? Mint? This is NOT about the operating system. This is about Kaspersky.
 

PinchedNerve

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
354
Every single company I do IT for has XP. Doctors, Lawyers, Golf courses (some Pro). Its incredibly irritating. Tell them to spend some cash & they blow a gasket.
 

donniedark

n00b
Joined
Dec 30, 2005
Messages
6
Maybe it is just me but I don't have any sympathy for people (including businesses) that are still running XP. Jeez, update your damn OS folks. :eek:
And just how do I get software (older games) to run on W7? There are a couple of driving programs that I have that will not run on W7. Have to run 98 or XP with an old nvidia board and vintage drivers in 6.7 range. And I do have 2 comp's running 7 with a newly purchased copy of 8 to install when and if they make the software that runs 7 on work on 8 , 1 running XP, 1 running 98 and dos.

IT'S COLLUSION BETWEEN BILL GATES AND THE SOFTWARE CO's, IN OTHER WORDS A MONEY GRAB, AND WE JUST KEEP BENDING OVER AND LETTING THEM SHOVE IT IN AND TAKE MONEY OUT OF OUR POCKETS!!! :)

Don't need your sympathy!:)

Don
 

wapos

n00b
Joined
Nov 16, 2004
Messages
27
Go upgrade your car, there are new ones out. It's only money.

If it does what you need it doesn't need "upgraded".
 

prndll

I'm floppy, even when I don't want to be
Joined
Dec 16, 2012
Messages
478
In all that has been put out there, with all the stuff that is used.....

The only reason to stop using XP ultimately comes down to the availability of drivers. There was alot more to it than just drivers when it came time to stop using 98se. A good example is that a 2 terabyte SATA drive would never work with it. XP drivers will no longer be there. Anyone that absolutely must have XP needs to make for damn sure they have all their drivers backed up. But that wont do any good when the only option is a new piece of hardware that has no XP drivers.
 

SkribbelKat

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
5,330
XP has had a long time on the market and it was a good upgrade from 2K & Me, but yup, it really is time to move to something else. Keeping it going is a total IT support nightmare. Ugh at industrial equipment and software that requires it...though virtual machines can kinda sorta mitigate some of the need to have it installed on physical hardware.
 

sfsuphysics

I don't get it
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
14,028
Man talk about causing mass hysteria for a lot of XP users, no internet access then how do they figure out how to get it back if they got no internet access!! :D
 

Red Falcon

[H]F Junkie
Joined
May 7, 2007
Messages
10,388
@Steve
I'll update it when there is good reason to

@HalOfBorg
That is not a good reason...This would not happen if Kaspersky were not used. How many other os's would this NOT affect? OSx? Ubuntu? Suse? Mint? This is NOT about the operating system. This is about Kaspersky.
None of the OSes you listed, save for maybe OS X, needs AV unless it is scanning for Windows-class viri.
 

Red Falcon

[H]F Junkie
Joined
May 7, 2007
Messages
10,388
And just how do I get software (older games) to run on W7? There are a couple of driving programs that I have that will not run on W7. Have to run 98 or XP with an old nvidia board and vintage drivers in 6.7 range. And I do have 2 comp's running 7 with a newly purchased copy of 8 to install when and if they make the software that runs 7 on work on 8 , 1 running XP, 1 running 98 and dos.

IT'S COLLUSION BETWEEN BILL GATES AND THE SOFTWARE CO's, IN OTHER WORDS A MONEY GRAB, AND WE JUST KEEP BENDING OVER AND LETTING THEM SHOVE IT IN AND TAKE MONEY OUT OF OUR POCKETS!!! :)

Don't need your sympathy!:)

Don
It's called a VM. ;)
 

prndll

I'm floppy, even when I don't want to be
Joined
Dec 16, 2012
Messages
478
None of the OSes you listed, save for maybe OS X, needs AV unless it is scanning for Windows-class viri.
Perhaps...maybe....
But at this point, most AV software is either useless or just creates more problems.....atleast for someone that actually knows what they're doing. Admittedly, most people don't.
 

MrGuvernment

Fully [H]
Joined
Aug 3, 2004
Messages
19,263
Every single company I do IT for has XP. Doctors, Lawyers, Golf courses (some Pro). Its incredibly irritating. Tell them to spend some cash & they blow a gasket.
if it ain't broke why fix it?

If it works for what they need... good luck convincing them to spend possibly10's of thousands in some cases + 100's of man hours upgrading systems, don't forget hardware upgrades now as well for all those single core , 512Mb XP boxes most places probably still use...

it isnt as easy as toss in a disk or a PXE image and upgrade..... If it was it would be done.
 

MrGuvernment

Fully [H]
Joined
Aug 3, 2004
Messages
19,263
Perhaps...maybe....
But at this point, most AV software is either useless or just creates more problems.....atleast for someone that actually knows what they're doing. Admittedly, most people don't.
So your saying you could never get infected? :rolleyes:

How many "trusted" sites have been compromised by malware from bad ad's being fed into it....

My AV has stopped plenty over the years.. better safe than sorry, but i assume those people who "know what they are doing" also think pulling out is a safe form of birth controllll
 

prndll

I'm floppy, even when I don't want to be
Joined
Dec 16, 2012
Messages
478
I'm not saying I could never get infected, only a fool would say such a thing.

I'm saying that it's just too hard for me to put that much faith in AV software. I think there are better ways of doing things. The first and foremost is the owner of the computer "knowing" the machine and understanding what can and does happen. Regardless of what operating system it is. Understanding the machine and it's needs counts more than anything else. Treat it with a certain level of respect and it will treat you right.
 
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
2,606
I find it amazing that people still use Windows XP, even my uni is still using it, even with machines with 8GB they had to install Windows XP 32 bit, and it had Windows 7 preinstalled too. Windows XP had a good long run but really, time to move on. I wish software and hardware developers would stop supporting it too.
 

octoberasian

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
4,082
[offtopic]
Side-note/Off-topic:

Seeing how Windows XP should not be on any computer user's PC nowadays, I suddenly had an epiphany a few weeks ago after reading a forum post in [H]'s Virtualized Computing forum.

I still run Windows XP, but under VMware Workstation 9. Why? There are certain games that won't run properly under Windows 7 or screws up the windows resolution (i.e.- certain F2P games I play.) Most games do run under VMware Workstation/Player, but others do not.

It's when I came upon a forum thread regarding graphics passthrough with an AMD/ATI graphics card with Xen.

My thinking is this: If I can get near-native or native graphics hardware performance in a VM with Xen, I could technically run just about any Windows game virtualized.

Technically. (Big emphasis on "technically.")

So, I could install something like Ubuntu or Linux Mint (64-bit) and install Xen, set it all up, run Windows XP, and I can run pretty much any older to newer game (up to DX9-based games) I want in a Linux environment. Especially games that have issues running in a newer OS like Windows Vista, 7 and 8. Yes, there are games that will not run properly unless they've been modified, hacked, or re-developed for the OS.

Anyway, that's a thought that ran through my head a few weeks ago. Also, it'd be a great to use such a method over something like WINE, especially if you have the hardware to boot that can handle it.

[/off-topic]
 

Red Falcon

[H]F Junkie
Joined
May 7, 2007
Messages
10,388
Perhaps...maybe....
But at this point, most AV software is either useless or just creates more problems.....atleast for someone that actually knows what they're doing. Admittedly, most people don't.
You mean for everyone using Windows, that is.
Windows without AV, whether you know what you are doing or not, is basically a like going into war wearing nothing but a speedo.

But hey, if that's your thing, go for it.
 

createcoms

Weaksauce
Joined
Mar 14, 2004
Messages
90
If all they are doing is surfing the interweb, checking their email and doing office document shizz then why the hell would they want to upgrade from XP? It's a mature platform, and that is actually a positive for a lot of users.

The reason I switched from XP to 7 was because Microsoft did the whole "no newer directx for you!" thing and once in a blue moon I get time to game thus I was *forced* (DOH!).

And I still resent them for it.....
 

Devistater

Gawd
Joined
Mar 29, 2001
Messages
651
I wonder if its related to something that happened to me (and a bunch of others judging by the kaspersky forum posts) today.

Windows (and kaspersky) started telling me my definitions were out of date, regardless of how much I updated them. I have them set to auto update.

I have windows 7. Its not the OS thats causing this problem, its the virus companies screwing up on an update. Its happened before (remember the anti virus update, I think it was from symantec, that marked a crucial windows system file as a virus?) and it will happen again. They should do a little testing before pushing crap out.
 

LANm0nk3y

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
446
It's called people not wanting to spend on upgrades -- I'm actually dealing with this crap right now... can't come in the worst time.
 

LANm0nk3y

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
446
and Yes, some softwares don't work on the newer O/S. Some place still have XP and Office 97 :D
 

tombew

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 5, 2005
Messages
232
>> I don't have any sympathy for people (including businesses) that are still running XP <<

Jeez - spoken like a True Tech Snob !!
I wonder if you will be singing the same tune when W7 nears EOL, and the only alternatives are all dumbed down OS designed for phones? I suppose you were a big fan of Vista also? .... WinMe?

In addition, the are manifold reasons to stick with XP besides money. Speaking only for myself, it is not the cost of a new OS, it is the TIME involved learning a new interface.
 

cdr_74_premium

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 20, 2010
Messages
1,579
and Yes, some softwares don't work on the newer O/S. Some place still have XP and Office 97 :D
Damn Access 97, I had to deal with this crap on my last job. Seriously... it wasn't a large organization, and it has plenty of dough, why not spend some on IT security?

People are god damn lazy most of the time. If it was for money I would get it, but that's not the case.
 

PinchedNerve

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
354
if it ain't broke why fix it?

If it works for what they need... good luck convincing them to spend possibly10's of thousands in some cases + 100's of man hours upgrading systems, don't forget hardware upgrades now as well for all those single core , 512Mb XP boxes most places probably still use...

it isnt as easy as toss in a disk or a PXE image and upgrade..... If it was it would be done.
It wouldn't be incredible irritating if XP wasn't constantly screwing up. There are literally 100's of man hours spent on fixing XP, since its about 75 to 90% of work I do. Finding certain XP drivers like printers is also becoming increasingly difficult. Not to mention proprietary OS re-install disks for the likes of old Dell & HP machines.

To be honest, I would say about 98% of the XP boxes I work on are dual core with 2 gigs memory. I have seen an occasional single core with 512mb or less memory, but its pretty rare every place I work. In fact, I can only think of 1 business I do IT for with single core & 512mb or less machines & I've only seen about 3 that I can recall which are used for POS's & clockin, but they are still a huge PIA.

In fact, your whole post doesn't read like an experienced IT person. The amount of time spent on XP issues in the course of a year is probably equal to or greater then the upgrade cost of the remaining XP machines at most of the places I work. Attaching a Win7 machine to the network, moving user data from the XP to Win7 machine, mapping drives & printers doesn't take all that long compared to the "often" XP re-install.
 

firas

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 29, 2006
Messages
2,454
If all they are doing is surfing the interweb, checking their email and doing office document shizz then why the hell would they want to upgrade from XP? It's a mature platform, and that is actually a positive for a lot of users.

The reason I switched from XP to 7 was because Microsoft did the whole "no newer directx for you!" thing and once in a blue moon I get time to game thus I was *forced* (DOH!).

And I still resent them for it.....
this is what I was thinking. XP still does more than the OS on the ipad or galaxy tab and a lot of people doesn't even know or care about the OS they're using.

It's called people not wanting to spend on upgrades -- I'm actually dealing with this crap right now... can't come in the worst time.
what about countries where the monthly salary for a school teacher is $50?
 
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
2,606
I understand some organisations can't upgrade because they have the money but some can and still hanging on to XP for some reason, like my uni.
 

prndll

I'm floppy, even when I don't want to be
Joined
Dec 16, 2012
Messages
478
It wouldn't be incredible irritating if XP wasn't constantly screwing up. There are literally 100's of man hours spent on fixing XP, since its about 75 to 90% of work I do. Finding certain XP drivers like printers is also becoming increasingly difficult. Not to mention proprietary OS re-install disks for the likes of old Dell & HP machines.

To be honest, I would say about 98% of the XP boxes I work on are dual core with 2 gigs memory. I have seen an occasional single core with 512mb or less memory, but its pretty rare every place I work. In fact, I can only think of 1 business I do IT for with single core & 512mb or less machines & I've only seen about 3 that I can recall which are used for POS's & clockin, but they are still a huge PIA.

In fact, your whole post doesn't read like an experienced IT person. The amount of time spent on XP issues in the course of a year is probably equal to or greater then the upgrade cost of the remaining XP machines at most of the places I work. Attaching a Win7 machine to the network, moving user data from the XP to Win7 machine, mapping drives & printers doesn't take all that long compared to the "often" XP re-install.
I completely understand the driver issue. With that said....

It sounds to me like you should make some changes in your methods.

Where as I never saw "mapping drives and printers" as a worthwhile thing to do, if you must do it, then use scripts that will work universally. A few well placed shortcuts and scripts will make life so much easier.

You spend all that time "fixing XP". How about spending a little time preventing XP from getting broken....by making certain changes and not allowing certain things to happen (and no, I'm not talking about using 3rd party software to essentially "spy" on employees).

As for "proprietary install disks":
A good IT person will already have certain things within arms reach...with just a few clicks.

Basicly, it's all in the way things are done. Regardless of what OS your working with.
 

xXaNaXx

Gawd
Joined
May 15, 2003
Messages
935
Maybe it is just me but I don't have any sympathy for people (including businesses) that are still running XP. Jeez, update your damn OS folks. :eek:
spoken from a position of privelege.

don't forget that there are still millions of people out there that still run WinXP not necessarily because they're too lazy or too cheap to upgrade....but because they don't have the money for it. especially in today's economy, where the dollar doesn't stretch quite as far as it used to.

if it comes down to spending $50 - $100 on an upgrade to Win7 or putting $50 - $100 worth of food on the table for your family, the responsible thing to do is pretty evident.

and that cost is just the price of the OS itself...if the machine they're running is too outdated to run a newer OS efficiently, then there's hardware costs involved, too, further taking money away from feeding the family.

sure, at some point they're going to have to upgrade anyway, but they shouldn't be looked down upon for putting their family first, and they definitely should not have to deal with their internet access being killed just because they're trying to keep their computer safe.
 

PinchedNerve

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
354
I completely understand the driver issue. With that said....

It sounds to me like you should make some changes in your methods.

Where as I never saw "mapping drives and printers" as a worthwhile thing to do, if you must do it, then use scripts that will work universally. A few well placed shortcuts and scripts will make life so much easier.

You spend all that time "fixing XP". How about spending a little time preventing XP from getting broken....by making certain changes and not allowing certain things to happen (and no, I'm not talking about using 3rd party software to essentially "spy" on employees).

As for "proprietary install disks":
A good IT person will already have certain things within arms reach...with just a few clicks.

Basicly, it's all in the way things are done. Regardless of what OS your working with.
"All in the way things are done" sounds nice, but sometimes you are restricted by what the client insists on (or even your boss) regardless of knowing a better way of doing things. Having things within arms reach also sounds nice but I would like to see the IT person that always has everything he/she needs at arms reach, especially when your a traveling IT person that can put 300 miles (give or take) on your auto any given day.

Then there is the extreme waste of your time & the client's money to factor in, such as 3 remote jobs I was asked to do yesterday. 1 printer supposedly didn't print, 1 computers USB ports supposedly didn't work (even though KB/M did), & 1 users Outlook supposedly didn't work. I'll be damned if I didn't waste an hour contacting these people, getting their computers name, login & pass just to find out all 3 were working perfectly well without issue when I remoted in. Boom! client's charged $200.00. 100 for 1 client & 100 for the other since 2 issues were at the same resort. And thank god I didn't have to waste multiple hours driving to both locations since I was in the middle of them & each were an hour away from where I was, in opposite directions. All XP machines & I have no doubt the issue was between the keyboard & chair, but a lot of times these same people do have issues whether their fault or not.

Sometimes its actually cheaper for the client to get a new machine then pay my company the time to fix a/multiple machines. Having said that, you might be surprised how many new machines I see get purchased with XP installed & apparently insisted on by the client.

I'm sure we could argue all day about ways of doing things/costs/reasons, yada, yada, yada but the bottom line (from what I see) is, a hell of a lot of the companies I do work for could upgrade (the rest of the office) to Win7 & spend less in a year to maintain it. Also, in some cases its because the Dr. is to cheap to update certain medical software from x86 to x64.

I will say that an Architect company I do IT for did spend 15 to 20k recently to upgrade the entire office (I think it was 3 desktops & 1 server, a lot of referbs) because he said he would rather write it off then give it to Uncle Sam.
 

Skirge01

Weaksauce
Joined
Jul 20, 2004
Messages
111
Maybe it is just me but I don't have any sympathy for people (including businesses) that are still running XP. Jeez, update your damn OS folks.
It wouldn't be incredible irritating if XP wasn't constantly screwing up. There are literally 100's of man hours spent on fixing XP, since its about 75 to 90% of work I do. Finding certain XP drivers like printers is also becoming increasingly difficult. Not to mention proprietary OS re-install disks for the likes of old Dell & HP machines.

<snip old hardware reference>

In fact, your whole post doesn't read like an experienced IT person. The amount of time spent on XP issues in the course of a year is probably equal to or greater then the upgrade cost of the remaining XP machines at most of the places I work. Attaching a Win7 machine to the network, moving user data from the XP to Win7 machine, mapping drives & printers doesn't take all that long compared to the "often" XP re-install.
@PinchedNerve: I have to disagree and it sounds like maybe you have limited experience in IT yourself, perhaps contracted work and/or generally for smaller, more run-of-the-mill companies? Most larger companies use VLK's and standardized images for all their computers, not restore CD's. Once you get a decent install base of Windows 7 computers, you'll find that it has issues, as well. Naturally, if a company has mostly XP computers, you'll find that XP has the most issues, but once Windows 7 is the majority, you'll see the issues slowly migrate to W7. It's simply a matter of numbers.

@PinchedNeve & @Steve: For smaller companies, you may only need to worry about migrating a user's data. For larger companies which have been around for a while, you often have older software, used throughout an entire--potentially national or international--company, to be concerned with. Upgrading computers and moving people to a new OS is one thing, although training hundreds or thousands of people on a new OS is quite an undertaking. Hell, just the Office "ribbon" can be a somewhat daunting thing for people.

When you throw mission critical software, such as WMS, ERP, QA or accounting systems, which aren't supported on Windows 7, on top of that you have two options: Stick with what's currently working or spend millions of dollars upgrading your software and training your people. The economy may be doing a little better, but (unlike Google et al) most companies don't have millions of dollars sitting in petty cash and that's what it costs to upgrade a WMS or ERP system for a large company, potentially across multiple sites.

For anyone who thinks a VM is the workaround, teach your grandparents how to use Windows 7 for the internet, but then explain how they need to use XP in a VM for email, pictures and videos. (It's not a perfect example, but you should get the idea.) That's the type of learning curve a lot of companies need to deal with. We aren't talking solely about people in offices with college degrees and at least somewhat technical skills, but blue-collar forklift drivers or production line workers, as well.
 
Top