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Judge Rules Google is an Illegal Monopoly

Zarathustra[H]

Zarathustra[H]

Extremely [H]
Joined
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/tylerr...er-online-advertising-technology-judge-rules/

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...it will be interesting to see what happens now as a result.

If they are forced to split off their ad infrastructure, that could be very interesting.
 
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Zarathustra[H] said:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tylerr...er-online-advertising-technology-judge-rules/

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...it will be interesting to see what happens now as a result.

If they are forced to spin off Instagram, that will be a big hit, as I am pretty sure just over half of their revenue xomes from Instagram now.
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Will Google be "forced" to lay off lots of employees? Will Elon Musk buy Instagram? To be sure the current Justice Department would not try to block that acquisition.
 
1_rick said:
The only thing that will tame Google is forcible divestiture of their advertising network. They should never have been allowed to buy DoubleClick, and I said that at the time, but what they became is far worse than I imagined at the time.
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And since the Ad network is the only real product that makes money... be interesting how all of their other little side projects get impacted if it is fully split out...
 
MrGuvernment said:
And since the Ad network is the only real product that makes money... be interesting how all of their other little side projects get impacted if it is fully split out...
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That, my friend, is exactly why I say that's the part that should go, and not (for example) Android.
 
Darunion said:
Every other time they do that to a big company I feel like it makes no difference.
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I feel like the breaking up of Ma Bell worked out pretty well, and wound up greatly benefiting the public.

I mean, sure, the phone companies are still conniving bastards using every trick in the book to try to get more advantage, but it is way WAY better than it was.

You couldn't even own a telephone. If you wanted a phone, you had to rent it from them.

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MrGuvernment said:
And since the Ad network is the only real product that makes money... be interesting how all of their other little side projects get impacted if it is fully split out...
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I would imagine they would make money by:

1.) Collecting user data and selling it to the ad platform and
2.) Selling space in their products to the ad platform.

Just like everyone else out there.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I feel like the breaking up of Ma Bell worked out pretty well, and wound up greatly benefiting the public.

I mean, sure, the phone companies are still conniving bastards using every trick in the book to try to get more advantage, but it is way WAY better than it was.

You couldn't even own a telephone. If you wanted a phone, you had to rent it from them.

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Not sure that's entirely true given that Bell labs gave us modern computers from the transistors to c and c++ and unix.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I feel like the breaking up of Ma Bell worked out pretty well, and wound up greatly benefiting the public.

I mean, sure, the phone companies are still conniving bastards using every trick in the book to try to get more advantage, but it is way WAY better than it was.

You couldn't even own a telephone. If you wanted a phone, you had to rent it from them.

View attachment 724270
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1.1.2.3.5... said:
Not sure that's entirely true given that Bell labs gave us modern computers from the transistors to c and c++ and unix.
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Bell Labs being forced to license tech on comparatively low cost terms was, for years, one of the major items keeping Ma Bell from being broken up far earlier than it otherwise would have been.

Post break-up, and thanks to the Clinton and subsequent administrations, all (or nearly all) of the Baby Bells rapidly re-merged like the broken off pieces of a T-1000 back into a single company.
 
Teenyman45 said:
Bell Labs being forced to license tech on comparatively low cost terms was, for years, one of the major items keeping Ma Bell from being broken up far earlier than it otherwise would have been.

Post break-up, and thanks to the Clinton and subsequent administrations, all (or nearly all) of the Baby Bells rapidly re-merged like the broken off pieces of a T-1000 back into a single company.
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There's been nothing like bell labs since...and there may never be again.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/...-important-to-innovation-in-the-20th-century/

https://www.britannica.com/money/Bell-Laboratories

There's was a big cost to breaking up at&t.
 
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1.1.2.3.5... said:
There's been nothing like bell labs since...and there may never be again.
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The list of innovation can get harder and harder to happen, but Google is one of the closest there been too.

From Deepmind to Waymo, to tensor-transformer to AlphaBet X project, geothermal, Fusion.

Zarathustra[H] said:
I feel like the breaking up of Ma Bell worked out pretty well, and wound up greatly benefiting the public.
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Does a bit more open telephone market make up for Bell Labs for the public ? we cannot weight a single part of it, monopolistic, high margin, certain to exist in 10 years capitals flow make possible to invest giant money in high risk-long horizon project in a way it is impossible for day to day need to survive one.
 
LukeTbk said:
The list of innovation can get harder and harder to happen, but Google is one of the closest there been too.

From Deepmind to Waymo, to tensor-transformer to AlphaBet X project, geothermal, Fusion.


Does a bit more open telephone market make up for Bell Labs for the public ? we cannot weight a single part of it, monopolistic, high margin, certain to exist in 10 years capitals flow make possible to invest giant money in high risk-long horizon project in a way it is impossible for day to day need to survive one.
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Bell Labs really didn't benefit the public until they were forced to do so as part of anti-trust action.

Large companies with monopolies never benefit the public. They exist to squeeze the public dry to benefit their investors.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Bell Labs really didn't benefit the public until they were forced to do so as part of anti-trust action.

Large companies with monopolies never benefit the public. They exist to squeeze the public dry to benefit their investors.
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Because of the fear of anti-trust measure they tend (like Bell Labs tech advancement) spend a lot of money of things that benefit the public (as tech advancement do, even if they are for maximising profits to someone and closed, if people buy that product it is a clear direct sign of benefit).

Creating things public want to spend money on to benefit investor is benefiting the public, the idea that Bell Labas innovation did not benefit the public is a bit of closed mindset.
 
Axman said:
Mozilla has only been interested in data mining, censorship, and DEI for years now. Firefox died in 2021.
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And yet it is still the best option we have íf we want to have the least amount of Google involvement in our browser choices. If Firefox dies, so dies all of its forks be it Waterfox or Librewolf or whatever. In the end all of those are just modifications of existing Firefox core but I do not believe they have the time, finances and manpower to keep developing a browser from ground up. It will be a dark day when Chrome rules the internet. Even Vivaldi, partially closer source, is also partially based on Chrome.
 
Why would Brave be better than Firefox? They already have options built in for the supposedly anonymous monetization of your data. While they're definitely better than Chrome, Firefox is still at least fully customizable, and even if you don't use them, there are plenty of options which do (or can) depend on them.

Firefox is still really the only browser that I can customize with extensions to the degree that I do.
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
Why would Brave be better than Firefox? They already have options built in for the supposedly anonymous monetization of your data. While they're definitely better than Chrome, Firefox is still at least fully customizable, and even if you don't use them, there are plenty of options which do (or can) depend on them.

Firefox is still really the only browser that I can customize with extensions to the degree that I do.
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I mean, it is still chromium, but it has the built in adblock and yeah, the customization
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
Why would Brave be better than Firefox? They already have options built in for the supposedly anonymous monetization of your data. While they're definitely better than Chrome, Firefox is still at least fully customizable, and even if you don't use them, there are plenty of options which do (or can) depend on them.

Firefox is still really the only browser that I can customize with extensions to the degree that I do.
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If you are talking about the cryptocurrency thing which is Braves speciality, for Braves defence they are all opt-in. By default it is a very privacy focused browser already without going to the extremes like Librewolf where the first thing you have to do is go through the settings and relax it a little bit just to have a working browsing experience.
 
1_rick said:
Because a significant portion of Firefox' funding comes from Google. Like 30% or so, I think.
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There are many posts online I see mentioning a seemingly inseparable relationship though few mention that Yahoo had a period where they were paying Mozilla instead of Google during the mid 2010s and in fact Ars Technica reported it was an estimated $100 more than Google was previously paying.

Reportedly there were a few reasons they ended it three years into the five year deal. Mozilla claims they were seeing fewer users when Yahoo was the default search but also Mozilla didn't hit some forecast revenue. Meanwhile Google per court documents was seeing less ad revenue during the Yahoo deal period. So they settled, got a large lump sum from Verizon who now owned Yahoo and went back to a Google deal.

These days though idk who could afford such an arrangement, especially with how high Mozilla has pushed it (up to $450m range now). Bing perhaps.
 
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Due to the fact that my business involves third party IT and tech support, including repair of mobile devices, I can't advertise under Google Ads even if I want to. I used to advertise via Google Ads many years ago, but ironically enough as soon as Google contracted a particular repairer to take care of their Pixel devices, all of a sudden anyone involved in third party IT and tech support was banned from advertising under the service due to the apparent 'high number of scammers in my field'...

...But it's OK to advertise Asian brides, which is basically human trafficking. :rolleyes:
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tylerr...er-online-advertising-technology-judge-rules/

View attachment 724235

...it will be interesting to see what happens now as a result.

If they are forced to split off their ad infrastructure, that could be very interesting.
Click to expand...

Funny thing about the timing, Google’s ad business is currently under major threat from AI players like ChatGPT. A lot of their ad revenue comes from search, and that model is being challenged heavily now which makes their almost monopoly position there matter a whole lot less.
 
DrezKill said:
How do you feel about Ungoogled Chromium?
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AFAIK they are still bound by the Google's and have to contain stuff like the Manifest V3 which is openly hostile to adblocking. Brave gets around it by using a built-in adblocker rather than a plugin system but still.
 
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